Whoot! Whoot! Whoot! Whoot! Whoot! Whoot! Six New Schools on COCA Agenda

eberge3

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And how many are on LCME's agenda? I doubt it's zero.
LCME has approved about 2 new MD schools per year over the past several years (keiser, NYU school, Cali Univ Science and Medicine, Nova, Carle, Seton Hill are some off the top of my head over the past few years). I get the COCA is kinda doing a lot interms of starting new DO schools but LCME is going pretty much the same
 
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Whoot whoot whoot whoot, 7 new MD schools opening 2019/2020: Seton Hall, Kaiser, Roseman, TCU, NYU long island, Henricopolis School of Medicine and U of Houston. We're all doom. A medicine degree will be the same (if not less than) as associate degree in nursing. We might as well drop out now while we can.

Edit: I forgot California U of Science and Medicine. So 8 new schools whoot whoot whoot. Going to medical school now is the same as committing career suicide literally. Save yourself while you can. I know I will.
Medicine will be like law school in 15 years or so. One has to make money quick and get out before *** hit the fan.
 
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puahate

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If you're worried then why are you even applying? I would imagine you would save yourself and pursue another career. Lol
Honestly, deep down i still want to be part of this field. I could get a job in pharma paying me 70k with yearly bonus but i honestly can't do it. I want to be apart of medicine. Also based on my stats its likely I'll be in an MD program so that at least still opens doors.
 
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parslea

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Honestly, deep down i still want to be part of this field. I could get a job in pharma paying me 70k with yearly bonus but i honestly can't do it. I want to be apart of medicine. Also based on my stats its likely I'll be in an MD program so that at least still opens doors.
This means exactly the opposite of what I think you wanted to say.

apart of = separate from
a part of = included in

I'd normally PM stuff like this but if my reply here teaches someone else to actually use this phrase correctly, it will be worth it.
 

puahate

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Thanks.
This means exactly the opposite of what I think you wanted to say.

apart of = separate from
a part of = included in

I'd normally PM stuff like this but if my reply here teaches someone else to actually use this phrase correctly, it will be worth it.
 

BorntobeDO?

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10 years ago there were about 5-6k NP graduates per yer. There's now more than 40k a year graduating. More than MDs and DOs combined. Also, school expansion has been exponentially increasing, not linearly, with residency expansion not even close to keeping up with the number of students entering the match. You can keep telling yourself everything will be fine, but you better hope you're in the top half of your application cycle.
There's no point telling him that now. He will figure it out in a couple years on his own. There are a group of DO's who insist on learning the hard way. They make great OMM fellows tho.
Classy response, you get a plus 1 from me :nod:.
 

Robotfishbrain

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New schools aren't a bad thing. There are still thousands more residency spots than domestic med students.

All you need is one simple law that gives domestic students first shot at match and leftovers open up to IMGs in a second round.
Some common sense on SDN DO boards?!I doubt you even need a law for this. As the number of domestic applications go up, the less IMGs will be taken.
 

Rekt

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Some common sense on SDN DO boards?!I doubt you even need a law for this. As the number of domestic applications go up, the less IMGs will be taken.
Says who? This myth is constantly perpetuated, but IMG match rates have been increasing. A PD will take a 250 from Ross/SGU all day long instead of a 401 from Gaylord BFE.
 
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Says who? This myth is constantly perpetuated, but IMG match rates have been increasing. A PD will take a 250 from Ross/SGU all day long instead of a 401 from Gaylord BFE.
While your anecdotal last statement is true, I have seen data listed in prior threads that shows that PDs are statistically more likely to interview a DO applicant than Caribbean. And yes, the Carib match rate has increased some - but this is most likely the result of previously exclusive AOA programs going over to ACGME every year. Meanwhile the DO rate appears stagnant, but has actually managed to hold percentage wise despite more DOs entering the match every year.

Also with the likely prospect of board score removal, Carribean students would lose that equalizer. And lastly, let’s remember that a lot applicants who would have became ROSS/SGU students are now the ones attending or will be attending the newer DO programs, meaning these Carib schools will pretty much just be taking those who either obsess about the initials MD or those who are even further at the bottom of the barrel. I woukld expect the Carib match rate to level out and likely drop in the near future.
 

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Whoot whoot whoot whoot, 7 new MD schools opening 2019/2020: Seton Hall, Kaiser, Roseman, TCU, NYU long island, Henricopolis School of Medicine and U of Houston. We're all doom. A medicine degree will be the same (if not less than) as associate degree in nursing. We might as well drop out now while we can.

Edit: I forgot California U of Science and Medicine. So 8 new schools whoot whoot whoot. Going to medical school now is the same as committing career suicide literally. Save yourself while you can. I know I will.
Roseman SOM tanked, may not try again. Henricopolis has zero chance (I suggest you read up on it, it's a truly bizarre story).
 

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BorntobeDO?

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Ah, yes, the weekly thread to remind me that the DO "profession" is cancer.

Making residency spots is not the answer. Destroying DO schools is the only true answer unless you want to be like a lawyer or pharmacist.
 

BorntobeDO?

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Ah, yes, the weekly thread to remind me that the DO "profession" is cancer.

Making residency spots is not the answer. Destroying DO schools is the only true answer unless you want to be like a lawyer or pharmacist.
'One DO school to rule them all, one COM to bind them' - RPC-COM branch of TBD in Wyoming motto in 2023. There is no other, I support this plan.
 
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Says who? This myth is constantly perpetuated, but IMG match rates have been increasing. A PD will take a 250 from Ross/SGU all day long instead of a 401 from Gaylord BFE.
On Saturday, the AOA House of Delegates passed a resolution calling for the profession to advocate for federal legislation to allow U.S. medical school graduates to lay first claims on U.S. residency positions.

Members of the New York State Osteopathic Medical Society (NYSOMS), which submitted the resolution, believe that the nation’s residency positions should first be offered to graduates of U.S. medical schools before international medical graduates (IMGs) can secure them.

“There’s a collision between the numbers of graduates of U.S. medical schools and the limited number of residency positions currently in the U.S.,” says Robert B. Goldberg, DO, the dean of the Touro College of Osteopathic Medicine in New York. “Soon, those positions will be saturated before we count one internationally trained physician vying for one of the slots.”

Steven I. Sherman, DO, the president of NYSOMS, says he wrote the resolution because the numbers of medical students are increasing while U.S. residency positions have remained relatively stagnant.
 

DNC127

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On Saturday, the AOA House of Delegates passed a resolution calling for the profession to advocate for federal legislation to allow U.S. medical school graduates to lay first claims on U.S. residency positions.

Members of the New York State Osteopathic Medical Society (NYSOMS), which submitted the resolution, believe that the nation’s residency positions should first be offered to graduates of U.S. medical schools before international medical graduates (IMGs) can secure them.

“There’s a collision between the numbers of graduates of U.S. medical schools and the limited number of residency positions currently in the U.S.,” says Robert B. Goldberg, DO, the dean of the Touro College of Osteopathic Medicine in New York. “Soon, those positions will be saturated before we count one internationally trained physician vying for one of the slots.”

Steven I. Sherman, DO, the president of NYSOMS, says he wrote the resolution because the numbers of medical students are increasing while U.S. residency positions have remained relatively stagnant.
Finally DO leadership doing something I can moderately get behind
 

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On Saturday, the AOA House of Delegates passed a resolution calling for the profession to advocate for federal legislation to allow U.S. medical school graduates to lay first claims on U.S. residency positions.

Members of the New York State Osteopathic Medical Society (NYSOMS), which submitted the resolution, believe that the nation’s residency positions should first be offered to graduates of U.S. medical schools before international medical graduates (IMGs) can secure them.

“There’s a collision between the numbers of graduates of U.S. medical schools and the limited number of residency positions currently in the U.S.,” says Robert B. Goldberg, DO, the dean of the Touro College of Osteopathic Medicine in New York. “Soon, those positions will be saturated before we count one internationally trained physician vying for one of the slots.”

Steven I. Sherman, DO, the president of NYSOMS, says he wrote the resolution because the numbers of medical students are increasing while U.S. residency positions have remained relatively stagnant.
This is big! Big ups to Osteopaths leading the way.
 
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calvinhobbes

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This is big! Big ups to Osteopaths leading the way.
Unfortunately that article was written in 2014...and absolutely nothing has changed. PD’s will still continue to rank who they want, whether it be MD, DO, or foreign grads.

Some programs only want FMGs, because especially if the program is malignant, the FMGs won’t complain, because being in a residency program in the US is there one and only ticket to being in America and getting a Visa, and if they complain, the program gets in trouble and they lose their Visa and residency...

some programs even only want FMGs because they know all will apply to fellowships, because they need to remain in the US longer to maintain that Visa, and the program wins because it say “wow look at all our fellowship matches this year, everyone got a fellowship!” when in reality it’s because the residents have to remain in the US longer no matter what to maintain their Visa status, thus they do fellowship. Sad but true. This is why many FMGs are ranked and match... it’s like cheap labor for the program, and programs know these residents are at their mercy.
 
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I didn't bother going through the rest of the replies, but although this may seem like great news, there is a huge flaw. This year many DO students continue to compete with our fellow MDs for residencies. And although there has been a huge influx of graduates, residency slots have been pretty stagnant throughout the years. Our DO school has been a "Primary Care" focused school and mission statement, but the reality is that there are a lot of people that still want to be EM, Surgery, Anesthesia, IM, and a huge list of other specialties. It's only going to get more and more competitive, which is a good thing, but the reality is that someone is going to have to suffer from not matching because of the lack of residency spots opening to accomodate the increase in medical students graduating.
 

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Class sizes of these new MD schools will be less than those of the new DO schools opening. In fact, NYU and Kaiser will for a few years provide their students with covered tuition. No teaching hospital affiliates with any of the DO schools planned as usual.
 

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LMU, NYIT, VCOM, PCOM, etc., all have, or will have, satellite campuses. Selling the DO degree to marginally qualified students just cheapens the degree for everyone in my opinion. All of the COCA members should be fired for incompetence.
But...but...more DOs good!!
 

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Finally DO leadership doing something I can moderately get behind
Well... I suppose I can't complain if they get us into the mess but then get us out of the same mess they created........ I guess
 

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I wonder what it will mean to have a McDO degree a couple of decades from now, or even one decade from now. What originally started out as a unique branch of medicine with an emphasis on holistic care and manipulative medicine has turned into a giant money-making scheme. New schools are scraping the bottom of the barrel to fill their seats. Before we know it, the Caribbean schools' famous "pulse and a wallet" standard will be applied by admissions officers at our very own DO schools.

At the end of the day, residency spots will determine the outcome of this predicament. In my view, there are two main possibilities: (1) the pharmacy scenario, or (2) the musical chairs scenario. Either would be unpleasant in its own way.

The pharmacy scenario will take place if new residency spots open to keep up with the growing number of US medical graduates. A direct result of this would be oversaturation—lower salaries, less employability, more difficulty paying off loans, etc. For a preview of what would happen in this scenario, look no further than "Job Market" threads in the pharmacy subforum.

The musical chairs scenario will take place if new residency spots don't open to keep up with the growing number of US medical graduates. As growing numbers of US medical graduates (mainly DOs) find themselves unmatched, trouble will begin to brew. Faced with the problem of having 80%, 70%, or even 60% match rates, new DO schools will be forced to shrink their class sizes or shut down entirely. This situation would leave behind a lot of people in limbo: DO graduates with no prospects of matching and DO students whose schools abruptly shut down while they're still attending.

My point is that nothing good can come out of this. COCA sees dollar signs, and it has thrown ethics out the window. Its accreditation standards are vague, and its application of these standards is extremely lax. What's going on a total disgrace, and I'm surprised that so few important people are talking about it in the public arena.
 
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DO2015CA

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This means exactly the opposite of what I think you wanted to say.

apart of = separate from
a part of = included in

I'd normally PM stuff like this but if my reply here teaches someone else to actually use this phrase correctly, it will be worth it.
No one cares grammar nazi. We knew what they meant. Thanks for “teaching” everyone
 

Ixacex

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Maybe this is in response to the future shortage of physicians? I know adding many schools all at once is not a good thing, but aren't a lot of older generation physicians retiring in the next 10-15 years? Wouldnt that leave many spots open for jobs, etc?

Albeit, adding all these schools with potentially little quality control is backward thinking.

258786

This trend is pretty alarming tho...
 

DO2015CA

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Maybe this is in response to the future shortage of physicians? I know adding many schools all at once is not a good thing, but aren't a lot of older generation physicians retiring in the next 10-15 years? Wouldnt that leave many spots open for jobs, etc?

Albeit, adding all these schools with potentially little quality control is backward thinking.

View attachment 258786

This trend is pretty alarming tho...
No such thing as physician shortage, it’s propaganda. There is however maldistribution, but no matter how many schools you open that won’t change. People want to live where they want to live even if they make drastically less money.
 

Ixacex

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No such thing as physician shortage, it’s propaganda. There is however maldistribution, but no matter how many schools you open that won’t change. People want to live where they want to live even if they make drastically less money.
Any data to support that the shortage is propaganda? Im curious on where you got that, as every AAMC article states that we have a shortage. I do think we do have a shortage as a country.
 
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Osminog

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Any data to support that the shortage is propaganda? Im curious on where you got that, as every AAMC article states that we have a shortage. I do think we do have a shortage as a country.
Contrary to what many claim on SDN, there is a physician shortage, and the shortage is projected to worsen over the next few decades as demand increases due to the inevitable introduction of new healthcare entitlement policies (e.g., Obamacare expansion) and an aging population.

The oft-recited "there's no shortage, just maldistribution" argument doesn't make any economic sense. When the supply of services fully meets the demand for them, there can be no maldistribution.

Here's a simple analogy: Imagine four vials set up in a straight line, touching one another. You are holding a container of water, and you continuously pour it into the first vial. When the first vial starts to overflow, the excess water enters the second vial. When the first and second vials both begin to overflow, the excess water enters the third vial, and so forth. After you've poured in all of your water, you look at the fourth vial and realize that there's barely any water in it. Someone might say that this indicates that there is a "maldistribution of water," which is absolutely true—but that comment doesn't address the root of the problem: that too little water was poured into the system.

In the above analogy, the water is medical care; the vials are areas that demand medical care; and the first vial is Boston and the fourth vial is rural South Dakota. Rural South Dakota didn't receive enough medical care because there weren't enough physicians entering the marketplace to "overflow" into such an undesirable location. Had enough medical care been "poured" into the system, there would have been an adequate supply of medical care and no maldistribution.
 

Ixacex

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Contrary to what many claim on SDN, there is a physician shortage, and the shortage is projected to worsen over the next few decades as demand increases due to the inevitable introduction of new healthcare entitlement policies (e.g., Obamacare expansion) and an aging population.

The oft-recited "there's no shortage, just maldistribution" argument doesn't make any economic sense. When the supply of services fully meets the demand for them, there can be no maldistribution.

Here's a simple analogy: Imagine four vials set up in a straight line, touching one another. You are holding a container of water, and you continuously pour it into the first vial. When the first vial starts to overflow, the excess water enters the second vial. When the first and second vials both begin to overflow, the excess water enters the third vial, and so forth. After you've poured in all of your water, you look at the fourth vial and realize that there's barely any water in it. Someone might say that this indicates that there is a "maldistribution of water," which is absolutely true—but that comment doesn't address the root of the problem: that too little water was poured into the system.

In the above analogy, the water is medical care; the vials are areas that demand medical care; and the first vial is Boston and the fourth vial is rural South Dakota. Rural South Dakota didn't receive enough medical care because there weren't enough physicians entering the marketplace to "overflow" into such an undesirable location. Had enough medical care been "poured" into the system, there would have been an adequate supply of medical care and no maldistribution.
This was like an explanation to a hard MCAT question. well done, sir
 
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DrStephenStrange

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No such thing as physician shortage, it’s propaganda. There is however maldistribution, but no matter how many schools you open that won’t change. People want to live where they want to live even if they make drastically less money.
According to these statistics Physicians age group distribution United States 2018 | Statistic as of 2018 close to 50 percent of physicians in the US are 56 or older. Therefore, an increasing proportion of our physicians are approaching retirement age, which is one of the basis for anticipating a shortage in the next few years without adequate flow of new young physicians into the population.
 
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According to these statistics Physicians age group distribution United States 2018 | Statistic as of 2018 close to 50 percent of physicians in the US are 56 or older. Therefore, an increasing proportion of our physicians are approaching retirement age, which is one of the basis for anticipating a shortage in the next few years without adequate flow of new young physicians into the population.
Regardless, the answer isn't a ton of DO schools opening up and accepting sub-500 scorers if there aren't going to be residency spots for these grads to go to.
 

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Regardless, the answer isn't a ton of DO schools opening up and accepting sub-500 scorers if there aren't going to be residency spots for these grads to go to.
My school is new and the average for my class is 3.50 GPAs and 502 MCAT. I don't think new schools are accepting lots of sub-500 applicants, and I don't think the applicant pool is running out of good applicants yet either. Every year lots of applicants with good stats end up with 0 acceptance. Though I agree the expansion needs to slow down a little.
 
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Contrary to what many claim on SDN, there is a physician shortage, and the shortage is projected to worsen over the next few decades as demand increases due to the inevitable introduction of new healthcare entitlement policies (e.g., Obamacare expansion) and an aging population.

The oft-recited "there's no shortage, just maldistribution" argument doesn't make any economic sense. When the supply of services fully meets the demand for them, there can be no maldistribution.

Here's a simple analogy: Imagine four vials set up in a straight line, touching one another. You are holding a container of water, and you continuously pour it into the first vial. When the first vial starts to overflow, the excess water enters the second vial. When the first and second vials both begin to overflow, the excess water enters the third vial, and so forth. After you've poured in all of your water, you look at the fourth vial and realize that there's barely any water in it. Someone might say that this indicates that there is a "maldistribution of water," which is absolutely true—but that comment doesn't address the root of the problem: that too little water was poured into the system.

In the above analogy, the water is medical care; the vials are areas that demand medical care; and the first vial is Boston and the fourth vial is rural South Dakota. Rural South Dakota didn't receive enough medical care because there weren't enough physicians entering the marketplace to "overflow" into such an undesirable location. Had enough medical care been "poured" into the system, there would have been an adequate supply of medical care and no maldistribution.
Your analogy, unfortunately, fails to hold water. Were there a specific point at which we could say that an area has enough - or too many - physicians, we could use that to support your argument. However, there's more than one variable here at play. It's true that if an area is saturated with physicians they could move elsewhere to practice. And, in a world that fits economic models, they would. They could also practice in that same area in exchange for less money. Or they could work fewer hours. Or they could go into a related discipline like research or administration. Additionally, where physicians choose to practice doesn't follow a linear progression (say, city 1 to city 2 to city 3 OR city to suburb to rural). And that's to say nothing of specialists vs. primary care.

To go along with your analogy, as the first vial fills some of the water will pour out onto the table instead of completely into the next vial. That would account for why the subsequent vials are left partially empty.

That said, I'm not asserting that there is or isn't a shortage. Simply that your argument, which argues in favor of the shortage but offers no concrete evidence of such, fails to support your position.
 
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Some common sense on SDN DO boards?!I doubt you even need a law for this. As the number of domestic applications go up, the less IMGs will be taken.
My issue with this position is that there are some very deficient residencies out there... No diversity of patients or pathology, minimal teaching, poor fellowship prospects, malignant culture... These are the spots that IMGs take now but with increasing US spots, US grads may now be filling these programs.
 
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Goro

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I wonder what it will mean to have a McDO degree a couple of decades from now, or even one decade from now. What originally started out as a unique branch of medicine with an emphasis on holistic care and manipulative medicine has turned into a giant money-making scheme. New schools are scraping the bottom of the barrel to fill their seats. Before we know it, the Caribbean schools' famous "pulse and a wallet" standard will be applied by admissions officers at our very own DO schools.

At the end of the day, residency spots will determine the outcome of this predicament. In my view, there are two main possibilities: (1) the pharmacy scenario, or (2) the musical chairs scenario. Either would be unpleasant in its own way.

The pharmacy scenario will take place if new residency spots open to keep up with the growing number of US medical graduates. A direct result of this would be oversaturation—lower salaries, less employability, more difficulty paying off loans, etc. For a preview of what would happen in this scenario, look no further than "Job Market" threads in the pharmacy subforum.

The musical chairs scenario will take place if new residency spots don't open to keep up with the growing number of US medical graduates. As growing numbers of US medical graduates (mainly DOs) find themselves unmatched, trouble will begin to brew. Faced with the problem of having 80%, 70%, or even 60% match rates, new DO schools will be forced to shrink their class sizes or shut down entirely. This situation would leave behind a lot of people in limbo: DO graduates with no prospects of matching and DO students whose schools abruptly shut down while they're still attending.

My point is that nothing good can come out of this. COCA sees dollar signs, and it has thrown ethics out the window. Its accreditation standards are vague, and its application of these standards is extremely lax. What's going on a total disgrace, and I'm surprised that so few important people are talking about it in the public arena.
I think that both scenarios will play out, to a degree. The system is self correcting, but some graduates are going to be hurt by it for a few years.

First off, COCA and LCME will sanction schools for having too many grads that don't match, The death penalty of closing a school is an extreme last resort, it's actually very hard for med schools to go belly up in one way or another. Rather, underperforming schools will be forced to cut seats, and probably increase their attrition rates by getting rid of the weakest students earlier on, akin to what the Cairb schools do (but unlikely to ever be as ruthless as the Carib predators).

The second is already happening with Pharmacy. People (even Tiger Parents) can figure out that a market is glutted. A close friend is on faculty at a Pharm school, and their entering class this fall will be 50% less than their usual seating capacity.

As of right now, there are still more residency slots than bodies to fill them, and so for mean time, what I fear happening is grads will end up in less desirable places, like Jonesboro, AR or Kalispell, MT. Will IMGs take the biggest hit? That's what I see, but there will always be PDs on their payroll, or happy to tale bodies for their malignant programs.

Lastly, we do see signs that some DO schools are starting up thier own residency programs with partner hospitals.
 

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Your analogy, unfortunately, fails to hold water. Were there a specific point at which we could say that an area has enough - or too many - physicians, we could use that to support your argument. However, there's more than one variable here at play. It's true that if an area is saturated with physicians they could move elsewhere to practice. And, in a world that fits economic models, they would. They could also practice in that same area in exchange for less money. Or they could work fewer hours. Or they could go into a related discipline like research or administration. Additionally, where physicians choose to practice doesn't follow a linear progression (say, city 1 to city 2 to city 3 OR city to suburb to rural). And that's to say nothing of specialists vs. primary care.

To go along with your analogy, as the first vial fills some of the water will pour out onto the table instead of completely into the next vial. That would account for why the subsequent vials are left partially empty.

That said, I'm not asserting that there is or isn't a shortage. Simply that your argument, which argues in favor of the shortage but offers no concrete evidence of such, fails to support your position.
Instead of using analogies that SDNers make, why not look at concrete evidence and data supported by AAMC and other reliable sources to come to the conclusion that there IS a shortage. Even if the doctors in saturated areas move into rural regions to practice, AAMC still predicts, with the upcoming retirement of older physicians and rising population and age, there will be a shortage. Its just that those rural areas will be hit harder.
 
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Instead of using analogies that SDNers make, why not look at concrete evidence and data supported by AAMC and other reliable sources to come to the conclusion that there IS a shortage. Even if the doctors in saturated areas move into rural regions to practice, AAMC still predicts, with the upcoming retirement of older physicians and rising population and age, there will be a shortage. Its just that those rural areas will be hit harder.
That said, I'm not asserting that there is or isn't a shortage.
That wasn't the point of my post. But, since you cite evidence from the AAMC, would you be so kind as to link to it?
 

Ixacex

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LebronManning

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I get what you mean, but residency spots are government funded, so I don't see why a good percent of it should go non-US trained people who are also likely to go practice outside the US as well. Are US trained doctors applying outside the US as well? I doubt it... So why shouldn't we have first dibs on our own residency spots. At some point, the government is really gonna have to do something (either increase GME or keep non-US trained doctors from those spots). The latter would probably be a better solution because then less people would consider the Caribbean route as an option.
You think FMG/IMGs come get residency training in the US and then leave? Lol. The whole point in doing residency here is to then work here permanently. In fact, FMGs are generally here on visas that require them to work in an underserved area after their residency training. Not many american grads are doing that.

US MD's do have first dibs on residency spots. Equal or even slightly lower US MD will always be favored to IMG. Thats your "first dibs." Now when you're much less talented than the FMG/IMG, why would any PD take you? And when you're a DO, you're pretty much at the level of an IMG without visa issues to most ACGME PDs. This is only an issue for insecure folks who feel they can't much up to IMGs who are "taking their spots." Newsflash, wasn't your spot in the first place if your merit doesn't match up.

Time to tell the FMG/IMG that the country is full and they can only match after every single US graduate has matched
Another display of the DO insecurity. Just do well and you'll match primary care for sure. If an IMG matched over you, its because they are better than you. Don't be bitter, get better.




*Disclaimer: I'm accepted to US MD but am always amused by the huge anti-IMG bias here on SDN.
 
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And when you're a DO, you're pretty much at the level of an IMG without visa issues to most ACGME PDs.
Neither match rate data or PD surveys support this conclusion. DO’s match at a 25 percent higher rate and PDs indicated they interview DOs more often than IMGs.


I do agree IMGs are preferred in certain areas/programs, and in many cases an IMG will be preferred with a bigger step score, but to say they are on equal ground is false.

And honestly, yes, IMGs should be squeezed out. And it’s not because DOs are lazy or entitled, it’s because Carib schools are shady and predatory. You make the degree non viable and you end this issue. It won’t happen, but it should.
 
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Mad Jack

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New schools aren't a bad thing. There are still thousands more residency spots than domestic med students.

All you need is one simple law that gives domestic students first shot at match and leftovers open up to IMGs in a second round.
Except I'd rather have exceptional IMG colleagues than mediocre domestic ones
 
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