Why are you guys choosing third tier trash medical schools?

[Doc_Ock]

Because those were the only schools that accepted them. The end.

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[celtic6643]

Most premeds don't care about credentials. They care about getting that juicy medical degree before ending up jobless because hospitals and corporations believe they can be easily replaced by midlevels. Two specialties in EM and radonc are already dead. I fully expect the problems will be worse with crushingly worse debt.

There i knocked out several hot topics on SDN at once

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t rad onc dying because there’s more and more therapeutic options popping up?

 

[El-Rami]

I think you could probably be a little less argumentative and pejorative in your description of these for-profit schools, but you do have a point. For a long time students have been told that it doesn't matter where you go to med school because you can match any specialty from any US school. With a proliferation in the number of schools, residency spots being more or less static and step 1 going P/F, I do think it is getting increasingly difficult to match competitive specialties from lesser-known schools. This is a problem which will likely increase in the coming 5-10 years.

I do think that in choosing to go to one of these schools, students probably need to seriously consider how happy they will be in medicine if they are not able to pursue a glamorous competitive specialty. I think we're still a ways off from US grads being in any serious danger of being unable to find *a* residency spot in less competitive specialties, even coming from these non-name-brand schools.

Honestly, I am not so sure that residencies will be "more or less static" in the future, since the AMA and AAMC (along with other major physician and healthcare organizations) already support efforts to significantly expand residency funding from the federal government. Congress has already passed legislation that adds 1000 GME positions over the next 5 years (which I know is a drop in the bucket), but they are also looking at adding another 14,000 positions. This seems to be a trend going forward.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Honestly, I am not so sure that residencies will be "more or less static" in the future, since the AMA and AAMC (along with other major physician and healthcare organizations) already support efforts to significantly expand residency funding from the federal government. Congress has already passed legislation that adds 1000 GME positions over the next 5 years (which I know is a drop in the bucket), but they are also looking at adding another 14,000 positions. This seems to be a trend going forward.

But it is unclear to me if those will be proportionally split among specialties or primarily earmarked for primary care.

 

[El-Rami]

But it is unclear to me if those will be proportionally split among specialties or primarily earmarked for primary care.

They need to put them into primary care, honestly. Not every specialty needs more residency spots. It could be detrimental to them. But primary care, absolutely need more of those, especially underserved areas.

 

[GoSpursGo]

They need to put them into primary care, honestly. Not every specialty needs more residency spots. It could be detrimental to them. But primary care, absolutely need more of those, especially underserved areas.

Then it seems like you agree with me… competitive specialties will get more competitive and it will be increasingly difficult for students from “third tier trash” schools to match them. So, if one is choosing to attend a lower ranked school, they should probably go in knowing that they are likely going to match one of the primary care specialties.

Which is great, and I am in one as a pediatrician But it is a bit of a shift in the last 15 years or so.

 

[deleted1100659]

you know what makes one doctor, better than another doctor?

not the medical school they went to. it literally means almost nothing. This is why we have things like board exams and residency. When I did ranking for my residency program we had like 5 or 6 major categories, the medical school they attended wasnt even a factor (besides if it was an IMG student or carib).

 

[Ellatha]

The state of all professions and healthcare sucks; law, medicine, dentistry, and biomedical PhDs are all terrible now because of either too much in student loans (dentistry) or hyper saturation (most PhDs, pharmacy, law, etc.). Welcome to the 21st Century.

 

[<(^_^)>]

The state of all professions and healthcare sucks; law, medicine, dentistry, and biomedical PhDs are all terrible now because of either too much in student loans (dentistry) or hyper saturation (most PhDs, pharmacy, law, etc.). Welcome to the 21st Century.

Finance, top 14 law (not too different than medical school aside from lower tier new ones in competitiveness), tech, and dentistry (still does well despite the loans) are all great. If you’re top 25% intelligence (broadly defined) and willing to work hard (60+ hours a week) you will not struggle to make >200k, and in many cases much, much more.

For most people the hours will be longer than they expect (especially starting out), but the pay will be far better than they expect in all the above fields if they persevere and work hard.

 

[trapperjohn4077]

Finance, top 14 law (not too different than medical school aside from lower tier new ones in competitiveness), tech, and dentistry (still does well despite the loans) are all great. If you’re top 25% intelligence (broadly defined) and willing to work hard (60+ hours a week) you will not struggle to make >200k, and in many cases much, much more.

For most people the hours will be longer than they expect (especially starting out), but the pay will be far better than they expect in all the above fields if they persevere and work hard.

These may be true for those who go to the right schools, make the right connections, and live in the right cities. If these things don't line up (and they don't for most), they are not rolling in cash like you seem to think. Plenty of people in all of these professions (except maybe denistry, idk about that one) make a modest but livable income. It seems like doctors and med students who went to school in the Bay Area (or other similar places) have a distorted view of reality when it comes to these things.

 

[<(^_^)>]

These may be true for those who go to the right schools, make the right connections, and live in the right cities. If these things don't line up (and they don't for most), they are not rolling in cash like you seem to think. Plenty of people in all of these professions (except maybe denistry, idk about that one) make a modest but livable income. It seems like doctors and med students who went to school in the Bay Area (or other similar places) have a distorted view of reality when it comes to these things.

They’re true for those in finance, top 14 law, medicine, dentistry and tech. All excellent fields if you’re willing to work hard. I was responding to someone that said that all these fields “suck” when in fact when coupled with hard work they’re all tickets to the top 5% (or even 1%).

Obviously if you fail to get into a top 14 law school/dental school/medical school or don’t work hard that’s a different story (and not what I was referring to). But virtually any doctor can decide to make well over 200k at any time if they work 60 hours a week and are flexible on location. Not true for many other jobs.

When jaded physicians talk about reimbursement issues they’re not wishing they had become a truck driver, they’re thinking about any of those other fields I mentioned all of which have VERY high salary potential if you work hard and are reasonably smart.

Bottom line for anyone lurking these forums (as I did many years ago before college) if you want to be in the top 5%, all those careers are great bets on how to make that happen if you’re willing to work hard. They also all offer non-trivial chances to become part of the 1% (again with hard work). They certainly do not “suck”.

 

[efle]

They’re true for those in finance, top 14 law, medicine, dentistry and tech. All excellent fields if you’re willing to work hard. I was responding to someone that said that all these fields “suck” when in fact when coupled with hard work they’re all tickets to the top 5% (or even 1%).

Obviously if you fail to get into a top 14 law school/dental school/medical school or don’t work hard that’s a different story (and not what I was referring to). But virtually any doctor can decide to make well over 200k at any time if they work 60 hours a week and are flexible on location. Not true for many other jobs.

When jaded physicians talk about reimbursement issues they’re not wishing they had become a truck driver, they’re thinking about any of those other fields I mentioned all of which have VERY high salary potential if you work hard and are reasonably smart.

Bottom line for anyone lurking these forums (as I did many years ago before college) if you want to be in the top 5%, all those careers are great bets on how to make that happen if you’re willing to work hard. They also all offer non-trivial chances to become part of the 1% (again with hard work). They certainly do not “suck”.

I think when you say stuff like "finance" and "tech" you really mean wall street and FAANG level careers. The typical computer programmer makes upper five figures (~75th percentile income) doing really boring work. That's closer to an apples to apples comparison with your local hospitalist or PCP

 

[<(^_^)>]

I think when you say stuff like "finance" and "tech" you really mean wall street and FAANG level careers. The typical computer programmer makes upper five figures (~75th percentile income) doing really boring work. That's closer to an apples to apples comparison with your local hospitalist or PCP

Maybe by USNWR or some mainstream reporting, just like how anesthesiologists make 208k.

I am describing people that are driven, willing to work 60+ hours a week, smarter than average and are fortunate enough to be in a position where medicine/dentistry/top law etc are options. That doesn’t necessarily mean FAANG but it does mean above average certainly. App academy (a 4 month bootcamp which requires 0 degree at all) averages slightly over 100k placement post graduation, and only goes up from there (5-10 years and your FAANG salary is closer to 250-500k, usually without >60 hour workweeks, sometimes remote, with potential for growth beyond that.)

And yes with finance I meant Wall Street/consulting/private equity/investment banking/venture capital but again way higher potential than 200k (and more hours too).

I am not trying to comment which is better or not (they all have excellent potential for the right person), as plenty of doctors wouldn’t be good programmers (or vice versa). I was saying that contrary to the original doom and gloom assertion there are still many jobs with paths to the top 5% if you are willing to work hard. These fields (med/dental/top 14 law/tech/finance) don’t “suck”, they’re the most common ways reasonably smart, driven people become top 5% or higher income earners.

So the question isn’t “can the average person get into a top 14 law/med/dental school?” it’s “Will a career following attendance at a top 14 law/med/dental school provide ample opportunities to make >200k if you’re willing to work hard or do they suck?” And the answer is they do not suck and absolutely provide an opportunity to earn that sort of income with hard work.

 

[efle]

Being average in other fields sucks compared to the average physician. I think that was the take. Pretty much any field is going to be a great choice if you're gifted and hardworking and your income isnt related to the average going rates. I know someone with an art degree making >250 for those reasons!

 

[Doc_Ock]

Finance, top 14 law (not too different than medical school aside from lower tier new ones in competitiveness), tech, and dentistry (still does well despite the loans) are all great. If you’re top 25% intelligence (broadly defined) and willing to work hard (60+ hours a week) you will not struggle to make >200k, and in many cases much, much more.

For most people the hours will be longer than they expect (especially starting out), but the pay will be far better than they expect in all the above fields if they persevere and work hard.

"All you have to do is be willing to work yourself to death nbd"

 

[<(^_^)>]

The state of all professions and healthcare sucks; law, medicine, dentistry, and biomedical PhDs are all terrible now because of either too much in student loans (dentistry) or hyper saturation (most PhDs, pharmacy, law, etc.). Welcome to the 21st Century.

This is what I was referring to.

Being average in other fields sucks compared to the average physician. I think that was the take. Pretty much any field is going to be a great choice if you're gifted and hardworking and your income isnt related to the average going rates. I know someone with an art degree making >250 for those reasons!

I do agree with this take, especially in that most physicians wouldn’t be great investment banks etc. but it should be noted there are way more filters for medicine than other fields. At my college about 10% of people of people made it through pre-med track, and 80% of them made it through the app cycle. Still, it’s nice that if you do go to medical school you have largely “made it”. There is something similar (though to a lesser extent) at top 14 law schools where 70+% are hired by big law post graduation with pretty generous salary scales (but with resident level work hours) Biglaw Salary Scale + Bonuses (1968 - 2021) – Biglaw Investor and of course the rest aren’t necessarily going to bad places or struggling to find a job either.

"All you have to do is be willing to work yourself to death nbd"

Well, some people find 60+ hours to be intolerable, others don’t, especially early on in life before you have kids. Many enjoy their work, in a way some people enjoy marathons. For pretty much all fields mentioned the hours decline over time with seniority and of course the money means you can do things like retire at age 40, go part time, or travel the world in comfort for extended periods of time, something most people cannot afford to do. There’s no right or wrong answer here, it’s your life and it’s up to you to prioritize accordingly.

 

[Lynx zwo drei vier]

Honestly, I am not so sure that residencies will be "more or less static" in the future, since the AMA and AAMC (along with other major physician and healthcare organizations) already support efforts to significantly expand residency funding from the federal government. Congress has already passed legislation that adds 1000 GME positions over the next 5 years (which I know is a drop in the bucket), but they are also looking at adding another 14,000 positions. This seems to be a trend going forward.

I hope you're right, but what about the number of attending positions? We all know the horror story re: EM, so is there any plan to prevent the same from happening in other specialties/rectify EM's situation?

 

[Student189045]

I think you could probably be a little less argumentative and pejorative in your description of these for-profit schools, but you do have a point. For a long time students have been told that it doesn't matter where you go to med school because you can match any specialty from any US school. With a proliferation in the number of schools, residency spots being more or less static and step 1 going P/F, I do think it is getting increasingly difficult to match competitive specialties from lesser-known schools. This is a problem which will likely increase in the coming 5-10 years.

I do think that in choosing to go to one of these schools, students probably need to seriously consider how happy they will be in medicine if they are not able to pursue a glamorous competitive specialty. I think we're still a ways off from US grads being in any serious danger of being unable to find *a* residency spot in less competitive specialties, even coming from these non-name-brand schools.

Residencies are far from static. Last I checked (few months ago so I cant remember exact numbers) spots have increased more in the last 10 years than from 1970-2010. The myth that residencies are tightly controlled died a long time ago yet many still cling on to it for some reason. We have already seen the effects in certain specialties like EM and will continue to see them in all other specialties going forward. I predict derm will be the next rad onc considering it's residency expansion lags only behind EM (about 85% increase in the last 10 years)

 

[GoSpursGo]

Residencies are far from static. Last I checked (few months ago so I cant remember exact numbers) spots have increased more in the last 10 years than from 1970-2010. The myth that residencies are tightly controlled died a long time ago yet many still cling on to it for some reason. We have already seen the effects in certain specialties like EM and will continue to see them in all other specialties going forward. I predict derm will be the next rad onc considering it's residency expansion lags only behind EM (about 85% increase in the last 10 years)

… ok, but that isn’t really the point I was trying to make. The question is, is residency expansion outstripping the expansion of medical student supply? Because if the answer is no, then my underlying point that a number of people who are hoping for a competitive specialty being forced into a primary care field still stands.

Im not one for predicting where the residency bubbles will pop. I think it will be a good while before my specialty (peds) becomes saturated by an over abundance of applicants

 

[CheGuevaraMD]

Being average in other fields sucks compared to the average physician. I think that was the take. Pretty much any field is going to be a great choice if you're gifted and hardworking and your income isnt related to the average going rates. I know someone with an art degree making >250 for those reasons!

Getting into med school takes above average skills these days anyway.

I think the core issue here is that many (most?) premeds still have the "old economy" mentality in that they think investing 10+ years into education and training is "smart" and "risk averse". In reality, waiting until your 30s to join the workforce is an extremely risky move, because you have forgone investing for 10 years, were not able to pivot with the economy while in school, and don't have as much energy to pivot careers if medicine has gone south when you finish residency.

If you are smart and tenacious enough to grind premed classes, the MCAT, extracurriculars, med school applications and interviews, etc., you can get a better job in tech or finance straight out of undergrad (or with a short masters) -- period.

 

[Student189045]

Getting into med school takes above average skills these days anyway.

I think the core issue here is that many (most?) premeds still have the "old economy" mentality in that they think investing 10+ years into education and training is "smart" and "risk averse". In reality, waiting until your 30s to join the workforce is an extremely risky move, because you have forgone investing for 10 years, were not able to pivot with the economy while in school, and don't have as much energy to pivot careers if medicine has gone south when you finish residency.

If you are smart and tenacious enough to grind premed classes, the MCAT, extracurriculars, med school applications and interviews, etc., you can get a better job in tech or finance straight out of undergrad (or with a short masters) -- period.

I always brushed off the warnings that watching your friends after college can be painful while in medical school...and boy did it come back to bite me. Three close friends had 150-250k packages within 2 years out of undergrad working for Microsoft, Netflix, and Goldman Sachs. I like medical school but the realization of how much income I'm losing while taking on 250k of debt was pretty staggering to me. I absolutely hate when people say doctors are overpaid given the length of training, lost income in the 20's, debt, and most of all, value to society.

 

[Lawpy]

I always brushed off the warnings that watching your friends after college can be painful while in medical school...and boy did it come back to bite me. Three close friends had 150-250k packages straight out of undergrad working for Microsoft, Netflix, and Goldman Sachs. I like medical school but the realization of how much income I'm losing while taking on 250k of debt was pretty staggering to me. I absolutely hate when people say doctors are overpaid given the length of training, lost income in the 20's, debt, and most of all, value to society.

I have friends making huge bank in Wall Street straight out of undergrad, but the difference is, i don't envy them or feel i'm missing out because they really work their rears off.

 

[Student189045]

I have friends making huge bank in Wall Street straight out of undergrad, but the difference is, i don't envy them or feel i'm missing out because they really work their rears off.

This is absolutely true. Investment bankers work more brutal hours than medical students easily. If they make the switch into private equity things can chill a bunch and they can clear 7 figures easily though (obviously hard to land these positions). Still though tech is probably the best balance of work to pay right now from what I've witnessed.

 

[Doc_Ock]

I have friends making huge bank in Wall Street straight out of undergrad, but the difference is, i don't envy them or feel i'm missing out because they really work their rears off.

And med students/doctors don't?

 

[Lawpy]

And med students/doctors don't?

I'm saying i don't envy people making a lot of money in rich tech or finance jobs out of undergrad because they have to work a lot to get that money. Doctors are definitely not overpaid (i think they're severely underpaid), residents should be earning a lot more and med students should not be crushed under crippling debt, since we work just as hard while facing brutal liabilities.

If anything, we should look to them to see how we can fix this broken med ed system

 

[Doc_Ock]

I'm saying i don't envy people making a lot of money in rich tech or finance jobs out of undergrad because they have to work a lot to get that money. Doctors are definitely not overpaid (i think they're severely underpaid), residents should be earning a lot more and med students should not be crushed under crippling debt, since we work just as hard while facing brutal liabilities.

If anything, we should look to them to see how we can fix this broken med ed system

imo it's so broken at every conceivable level the only way to fix it is to burn it to the ground and build it back up

 

[calivianya]

I have friends making huge bank in Wall Street straight out of undergrad, but the difference is, i don't envy them or feel i'm missing out because they really work their rears off.

I completely agree with you tbh.

I did a stint as a temp in a finance job for two months once… cubicle farm, the whole nine years. They ended up letting me go. It’s the only job I’ve ever been fired from. Fortunately, since it was a temp position, I didn’t have to tell anyone that I got “fired.” It was technically true that the reason I left that job is I was just a temp and they found a full-time person, which sounded much better on job apps than the reality of the situation, which they made abundantly clear to my face lmfao. They weren’t planning on filling that spot until I did such a bad job as a temp.

It’s a very different kind of hard work. They might not have lives on the line… but a lot of them are doing the most boring, most unimportant, most uninteresting crap known to mankind (IMO) in the absolute most suffocating environment imaginable with all those awful fluorescents and the constant noise from hearing everyone else talking on the phone about equally boring, unimportant, uninteresting crap. If you’re half as ADHD as I am, hearing all of those other conversations constantly is so distracting you can’t even think straight. Yeah, I want to work hard... but there’s nothing I’ve encountered in med school yet that was as difficult for me as that job. It was awful.

So I also don’t think it’s true that anyone who could do well in medicine could do well in finance, per se. Maybe some people are that flexible, but if my only career option was finance, I’m 99% sure I’d be living under an overpass right now.

 

[QuizzicalApe]

I didn't read this whole thing but have we been able to find out if attending the walmart heir's school gives you a complimentary membership in Sam's Club?

 

[Billiam95]

I didn't read this whole thing but have we been able to find out if attending the walmart heir's school gives you a complimentary membership in Sam's Club?

Only 50% off Sams Club fee, plus you have to promise to never join Costco

 

[KnuxNole]

I would want to do a career with some semblance of importance and satisfaction and enjoyment. There is nothing I could ever find enjoyable about finance or investment banking. It seems extremely...lame.

 

[babagandu2424]

I would want to do a career with some semblance of importance and satisfaction and enjoyment. There is nothing I could ever find enjoyable about finance or investment banking. It seems extremely...lame.

Most med students think this way which is so ignorant it’s comical. You’ll find that a lot of the most driven and hardworking individuals from your med school cohort will transition into the world of healthcare finance (increasing over time). Why? Not just the money - more career satisfaction and making an impact on a macro scale. They are the ones that want to help with bringing innovation/new molecular entities to patients globally. Say what you want, but they play just as important of a role than a practicing physician, if not much more.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Most med students think this way which is so ignorant it’s comical. You’ll find that a lot of the most driven and hardworking individuals from your med school cohort will transition into the world of healthcare finance (increasing over time). Why? Not just the money - more career satisfaction and making an impact on a macro scale. They are the ones that want to help with bringing innovation/new molecular entities to patients globally. Say what you want, but they play just as important of a role than a practicing physician, if not much more.

This is exactly what I did. ****, I didn't even wait to finish med school. Saw the writing on the wall.

 

[BlueFire7]

When I started med school, I cared a lot about money --> was looking for ways to switch to IB, which would have been easy given the university I attend. However, it took me a while to realise, money won't make you feel happy or accomplished. Yes, it is nice to have and not worry about, but after a certain threshold, it's your work/family etc that gives your life meaning and happiness. Plus, people in finance tend to be right dicks and it's fckin boring. Idk about the situation over in the US because money is obviously a driving factor for practising physicians due to the payment structure, but here in the UK, my idols in the ortho field love what they do, get paid decent (not US amounts) and are super satisfied with their lives.

 

[KnuxNole]

Most med students think this way which is so ignorant it’s comical. You’ll find that a lot of the most driven and hardworking individuals from your med school cohort will transition into the world of healthcare finance (increasing over time). Why? Not just the money - more career satisfaction and making an impact on a macro scale. They are the ones that want to help with bringing innovation/new molecular entities to patients globally. Say what you want, but they play just as important of a role than a practicing physician, if not much more.

Ignorant question, but what exactly can be so interesting about finance?

I literally couldn't think of one interesting aspect about this....like at all. Or gain any satisfaction from a career I would boring with a capital B. I would be sleeping on my desk or scrolling through TikToks.

 

[BlueFire7]

Ignorant question, but what exactly can be so interesting about finance?

I literally couldn't think of one interesting aspect about this....like at all. Or gain any satisfaction from a career I would boring with a capital B. I would be sleeping on my desk or scrolling through TikToks.

Some people are motivated by money, that's all. Nothing wrong with that though. Doctors aren't entirely free from the greed as well.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Ignorant question, but what exactly can be so interesting about finance?

I literally couldn't think of one interesting aspect about this....like at all. Or gain any satisfaction from a career I would boring with a capital B. I would be sleeping on my desk or scrolling through TikToks.

Some people think medicine is boring. Different strokes, folks.

 

[Lawpy]

Ignorant question, but what exactly can be so interesting about finance?

I literally couldn't think of one interesting aspect about this....like at all. Or gain any satisfaction from a career I would boring with a capital B. I would be sleeping on my desk or scrolling through TikToks.

Finance is interesting because money and to be honest, many many doctors care about money and are in it for the money.

 

[Lawpy]

Some people are motivated by money, that's all. Nothing wrong with that though. Doctors aren't entirely free from the greed as well.

No there's plenty of wrong with that. Doctors driven by money are also motivated to sell practices to private equity and endanger patient care in name of profit

 

[babagandu2424]

Some people are motivated by money, that's all. Nothing wrong with that though. Doctors aren't entirely free from the greed as well.

Most of my network would beg to differ. Money is nice, but not the primary means of motivation for pursuing non-clinical career paths after med school. Before you make ignorant statements, I suggest you do some research.

Let’s put it this way, most physicians spend their lives providing patient focused care that revolves around current SOC/science, etc, they don’t innovate or do much critical thinking to be honest. Before you discredit this, I’m not grouping surgery, and a few other specialities into this. MD finance folk will work to bring about new therapies, allocate capital appropriately, and get the most exciting things going on in medtech/biotech up and running (such as strategy, consulting, VC, HF, ER, IB, biotech exec roles, etc.) that are 10 years out of clinical use. They think way ahead and most of the time they make a lucrative salary for sure. On a macro level, most physicians don’t come close to making as much of a difference in healthcare than someone on the finance side of life sciences, especially with a MD background.

 

[babagandu2424]

Ignorant question, but what exactly can be so interesting about finance?

I literally couldn't think of one interesting aspect about this....like at all. Or gain any satisfaction from a career I would boring with a capital B. I would be sleeping on my desk or scrolling through TikToks.

One of a million different examples below:

Joe is an MD by training who pivoted into the world of biopharma finance. He works at a small/medium fund as an associate. His role is to conduct deep diligence on potential investment opportunities in the private biotech space. He sets up lunch with a couple execs at biotech company A, to go over their pipeline/strategy/background/value prop, etc. He likes what they are doing and goes to discuss with team and conduct some more KOL interviews with scientists, clinicians, etc. This is an extremely nuanced vetting process because most of the time, you’re parking a good amount of money as an investment (for example $15M+ in this case). Fast forward 8 years, drug is looking good for approval for say ADPKD and is better than Bardoxolone in terms of efficacy, safety, etc. Patients see benefit, and Joe had an active role in allowing this to happen to change thousands of lives. He used his MD background and Lear sings/teachings in the therapeutics/kidney disease space to then make an informed decision on what to do, while using other resources of course.

Anyways, this is a ramble but very basic example of the ways you can make a macro level impact in finance. You still need to be well versed scientifically of course…. How else would you vet early stage/per clinical molecule entities?

 

[BlueFire7]

Most of my network would beg to differ. Money is nice, but not the primary means of motivation for pursuing non-clinical career paths after med school. Before you make ignorant statements, I suggest you do some research.

Let’s put it this way, most physicians spend their lives providing patient focused care that revolves around current SOC/science, etc, they don’t innovate or do much critical thinking to be honest. Before you discredit this, I’m not grouping surgery, and a few other specialities into this. MD finance folk will work to bring about new therapies, allocate capital appropriately, and get the most exciting things going on in medtech/biotech up and running (such as strategy, consulting, VC, HF, ER, IB, biotech exec roles, etc.) that are 10 years out of clinical use. They think way ahead and most of the time they make a lucrative salary for sure. On a macro level, most physicians don’t come close to making as much of a difference in healthcare than someone on the finance side of life sciences, especially with a MD background.

Literally every person I know who enters investment banking, derivatives trading, actuarial work etc mention that their primary motive is the compensation - they are indifferent to what they do. I was referring to people who study econs etc, that enter finance after their UG degree. TLDR the whole thread, was just giving my 2c on what appeals in finance to the people I know that have entered it.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Ignorant question, but what exactly can be so interesting about finance?

I literally couldn't think of one interesting aspect about this....like at all. Or gain any satisfaction from a career I would boring with a capital B. I would be sleeping on my desk or scrolling through TikToks.

This is how i feel every time SDN threads devolve into "alternate career" discussions. there are so many other things out there besides tech and finance! I would cry if you made me do either of those. there are so many other things I would take a substantially lower salary for that bore me (or anger me) way less

 

[KnuxNole]

This is how i feel every time SDN threads devolve into "alternate career" discussions. there are so many other things out there besides tech and finance! I would cry if you made me do either of those. there are so many other things I would take a substantially lower salary for that bore me (or anger me) way less

I agree. On here, usually the majority is interested in medicine...or thinking about it. Otherwise, they wouldn't browse a medicine forum.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Ok Boomer.

Is Stanford a clown school? School of Medicine makes MCAT optional amid COVID-19 testing disruptions | The Stanford Daily

Yes

 

[Goro]

What did instate do to get the Banhammer smack???

 

[Doc_Ock]

What did instate do to get the Banhammer smack???

Someone around here really, REALLY likes Stanford.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I graduated med school in 2008 so I'm a little older and crankier and don't understand what you guys are doing.

For those of you not aware, the term "third tier trash" used to apply to law schools, because they were opening up like McDonalds.

I hate to say this, but it now applies to med schools too.

Consider that in the last 20 years, there have been over 80 new medical schools (DO and MD). The prior 20 years before that, there were only 7 new medical schools.

Now we have Walmart opening medical schools in podunk Bentonville with a population of 50k -- Walmart heir's nonprofit to start new integrative medical school in Arkansas

We have for-profit med schools opening everywhere too.

I'm sorry but Walmart is a third tier trash med school
So are all the for-profit schools
So are all the schools opened in small towns that nobody has ever heard of before
So are all the schools opened in towns that dont even have a real hospital and force all their graduates to go off site for the entire 3rd and 4th year

Those things would have been UNTHINKABLE 20 years ago and now they are commonplace.

Medical school used to be something you could be proud of -- now it's a vocational tech program and nothing more.

If this trend continues, expect that just like law school, the name of the med school you go to will dictate everything.

No more dermatology matches from low tier schools, just like a white-shoe law firm won't touch a law grad from Dayton even if they are #1 rank in their class with a 4.0 GPA

There's a reckoning coming and it has nothing to do with socialized medicine or politics.

Anybody who attends Walmart Medical School should be embarassed and ashamed of themselves.

I think the correct terminology for TTT is third tier toilet.

 

[mega_]

I think the correct terminology for TTT is third tier toil

I graduated med school in 2008 so I'm a little older and crankier and don't understand what you guys are doing.

For those of you not aware, the term "third tier trash" used to apply to law schools, because they were opening up like McDonalds.

I hate to say this, but it now applies to med schools too.

Consider that in the last 20 years, there have been over 80 new medical schools (DO and MD). The prior 20 years before that, there were only 7 new medical schools.

Now we have Walmart opening medical schools in podunk Bentonville with a population of 50k -- Walmart heir's nonprofit to start new integrative medical school in Arkansas

We have for-profit med schools opening everywhere too.

I'm sorry but Walmart is a third tier trash med school
So are all the for-profit schools
So are all the schools opened in small towns that nobody has ever heard of before
So are all the schools opened in towns that dont even have a real hospital and force all their graduates to go off site for the entire 3rd and 4th year

Those things would have been UNTHINKABLE 20 years ago and now they are commonplace.

Medical school used to be something you could be proud of -- now it's a vocational tech program and nothing more.

If this trend continues, expect that just like law school, the name of the med school you go to will dictate everything.

No more dermatology matches from low tier schools, just like a white-shoe law firm won't touch a law grad from Dayton even if they are #1 rank in their class with a 4.0 GPA

There's a reckoning coming and it has nothing to do with socialized medicine or politics.

Anybody who attends Walmart Medical School should be embarassed and ashamed of themselves.

The silient assumption here is that schools differ drastically in quality of education. Given that every student get more and more of their medical knowledge from First aid, phatoma, boards and beyond, scketchy etc, rather than school lectures, at least pre-clinical part of such assumption is dubious. Clinical part probably does differ, however, even in great school if you are stuck with bad team you will not learn much. Again, almost all students do need to take shelf exams, so again their knowledge base is not that different.
The second silent assumption here is that residency care about med school name, but given current ability to get decent knowledge base anywhere, I fail to see how is that on students rather than on PDs who just dont have enough time to go through all applicants and use school name as heuristic tool. What we really need is better evaluation system for residency and more residency spots rather than to worry about school status

 

[Lawpy]

Preclinicals should be reduced to 1 yr everywhere (with heavy emphasis on clinical correlates). We need to focus on clinical education and electives, not stuff that boards resources teach better than lecturers.

 

[efle]

The silient assumption here is that schools differ drastically in quality of education. Given that every student get more and more of their medical knowledge from First aid, phatoma, boards and beyond, scketchy etc, rather than school lectures, at least pre-clinical part of such assumption is dubious. Clinical part probably does differ, however, even in great school if you are stuck with bad team you will not learn much. Again, almost all students do need to take shelf exams, so again their knowledge base is not that different.
The second silent assumption here is that residency care about med school name, but given current ability to get decent knowledge base anywhere, I fail to see how is that on students rather than on PDs who just dont have enough time to go through all applicants and use school name as heuristic tool. What we really need is better evaluation system for residency and more residency spots rather than to worry about school status

I'm surprised the SLOE system from EM didnt catch on for any other specialties. Seems like a much better way to evaluate a med student than the eval surveys, step score and uniformly positive (and usually boilerplate) letters that make up so much of our current process.