Why do medical students do so many drugs?

[probablystupid]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3172154
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2013926
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2327847
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9159584

Future doctors really like cocaine and marijuana? I wish these studies surveyed about adderall usage considering everyone and their mother is taking it in undergrad.

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[Lost in Translation]

Strong first post.

To be serious about this so I don't get banned for responding to a troll thread, you'll find drug users in every profession, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Also, pot is the next e-cig so half of what you listed will be outdated and irrelevant info in less than 5 years.

 

[WedgeDawg]

"Compared with their age and sex cohorts nationally, the medical students reported less use of marijuana, cocaine, cigarettes, LSD, barbiturates, and amphetamines. However, their use of other opiates was approximately the same and their use of tranquilizers and alcohol was slightly higher than that of the other cohorts."

"Compared with national, age-related comparison groups, senior medical students reported less use of all substances during the past 30 days and the past 12 months, except for alcohol, tranquilizers, and psychedelics other than LSD. Substantial new drug use after entry into medical school was reported only for tranquilizers."

I saw that the third study was from 25 years ago so I checked the dates on the first two.... same time (c. 1990). The latest one was still 20 years ago (1997), and even then, the surveys they used were from 1991 and 1993.

You are using 25 year old reports to make conclusions about a population of whom half of which hadn't even been born when these studies were published. Not to mention conclusions that aren't even correct for the population being surveyed...

 

[Psai]

Wtf 5% used cocaine in the past month?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Wtf 5% used cocaine in the past month?

In the late 80s/early 90s.

 

[probablystupid]

"Compared with their age and sex cohorts nationally, the medical students reported less use of marijuana, cocaine, cigarettes, LSD, barbiturates, and amphetamines. However, their use of other opiates was approximately the same and their use of tranquilizers and alcohol was slightly higher than that of the other cohorts."

"Compared with national, age-related comparison groups, senior medical students reported less use of all substances during the past 30 days and the past 12 months, except for alcohol, tranquilizers, and psychedelics other than LSD. Substantial new drug use after entry into medical school was reported only for tranquilizers."

I saw that the third study was from 25 years ago so I checked the dates on the first two.... same time (c. 1990). The latest one was still 20 years ago (1997), and even then, the surveys they used were from 1991 and 1993.

You are using 25 year old reports to make conclusions about a population of whom half of which hadn't even been born when these studies were published. Not to mention conclusions that aren't even correct for the population being surveyed...

Old studies are not irrelevant unless you're implying drug use has decreased since then...and I have a study to show how wrong that idea is.

 

[Germanicus89]

Old studies are not irrelevant unless you're implying drug use has decreased since then...and I have a study to show how wrong that idea is.

Let's get the cards on the table.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Old studies are not irrelevant unless you're implying drug use has decreased since then...and I have a study to show how wrong that idea is.

Even if this is true, these studies show that medical students use marijuana and cocaine at a lower rate than the rest of the population at that age.

 

[probablystupid]

Let's get the cards on the table.

This isn't anything radical.
http://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/de...10-web/2k10ResultsRev/NSDUHresultsRev2010.htm
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07448480309595719

Even if this is true, these studies show that medical students use marijuana and cocaine at a lower rate than the rest of the population at that age.

I'd like to see that citation, but it's kind've irrelevant. The real question is whether medical students (future doctors) should be doing any kind of nonprescribed drugs. I am not saying medical students should be immune to drug addiction/experimentation, I am saying cocaine usage should not be around 10%. Drug addicts should not be doctors.

 

[WedgeDawg]

This isn't anything radical.
http://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/de...10-web/2k10ResultsRev/NSDUHresultsRev2010.htm
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07448480309595719

I only looked at your first link, but that doesn't really provide evidence for what you're trying to say. Look at Table 8.2 which tracks young adult drug use from 2002 to 2010 (which still doesn't even answer our question because that's still 10 years out of date). You see that lifetime drug use goes down in every category except marijuana which stays the same.

If you look at figure 2.7, you see that drug use overall stays around the same 2002 to 2010.

The college student text above figure 2.11 says that rates of illicit drug use among college students in 2010 was similar to 2002.

For cocaine: "In 2010, there were 637,000 persons aged 12 or older who had used cocaine for the first time within the past 12 months; this averages to approximately 1,700 initiates per day. This estimate was similar to the number in 2009 (617,000) and 2008 (722,000). The annual number of cocaine initiates declined from 1.0 million in 2002 to 637,000 in 2010. The number of initiates of crack cocaine declined during this period from 337,000 to 83,000."

If you're going to cite studies, it's probably a good idea to at least read them first...

I'd like to see that citation, but it's kind've irrelevant. The real question is whether medical students (future doctors) should be doing any kind of nonprescribed drugs. I am not saying medical students should be immune to drug addiction/experimentation, I am saying cocaine usage should not be around 10%. Drug addicts should not be doctors.

That's a legitimate question, but it might be a better idea to ask it without citing studies that don't really help provide context or elaborate your point (btw, as per your first study, cocaine use was 5%, not 10%)

 

[TallPreMed]

Hope you aren't planning on applying to med school with that crappy (lack of) research!

 

[Turkishking]

Some one told me the same exact thing before. But I'm not in medical school.

 

[Lucca]

I only looked at your first link, but that doesn't really provide evidence for what you're trying to say. Look at Table 8.2 which tracks young adult drug use from 2002 to 2010 (which still doesn't even answer our question because that's still 10 years out of date). You see that lifetime drug use goes down in every category except marijuana which stays the same.

If you look at figure 2.7, you see that drug use overall stays around the same 2002 to 2010.

The college student text above figure 2.11 says that rates of illicit drug use among college students in 2010 was similar to 2002.

For cocaine: "In 2010, there were 637,000 persons aged 12 or older who had used cocaine for the first time within the past 12 months; this averages to approximately 1,700 initiates per day. This estimate was similar to the number in 2009 (617,000) and 2008 (722,000). The annual number of cocaine initiates declined from 1.0 million in 2002 to 637,000 in 2010. The number of initiates of crack cocaine declined during this period from 337,000 to 83,000."

If you're going to cite studies, it's probably a good idea to at least read them first...



That's a legitimate question, but it might be a better idea to ask it without citing studies that don't really help provide context or elaborate your point (btw, as per your first study, cocaine use was 5%, not 10%)

It's comforting to hear a study found cocaine use declining from 2002-2010. I wonder if that is still true? My experience in college is that many people do cocaine (enough for it to not be insane or weird but not enough for it to be rampant), especially people in Greek life (no I'm not saying that all Greek life students are cocaine addicts).

 

[WedgeDawg]

It's comforting to hear a study found cocaine use declining from 2002-2010. I wonder if that is still true? My experience in college is that many people do cocaine (enough for it to not be insane or weird but not enough for it to be rampant), especially people in Greek life (no I'm not saying that all Greek life students are cocaine addicts).

No idea. I knew people in college who did cocaine too (I wouldn't say many, but some), but without studies, I don't know anything about its prevalence in 2015/2016.

 

[Lucca]

No idea. I knew people in college who did cocaine too (I wouldn't say many, but some), but without studies, I don't know anything about its prevalence in 2015/2016.

Looked it up and based on US govt. data looks like cocaine use is pretty stable (at fairly low levels) for some years now. Marijuana use has been increasing steadily. I guess it is more of a sampling bias. I didnt really think people *did* cocaine besides the 3-5 burnouts from the high school class and now that I know a significant amount of people do cocaine I was a little shocked

 

[loverofalldogs]

Hope you aren't planning on applying to med school with that crappy (lack of) research!

I feel terrible for the poor patients who have to put up with you on a daily basis.

 

[rilte4]

Looked it up and based on US govt. data looks like cocaine use is pretty stable (at fairly low levels) for some years now. Marijuana use has been increasing steadily. I guess it is more of a sampling bias. I didnt really think people *did* cocaine besides the 3-5 burnouts from the high school class and now that I know a significant amount of people do cocaine I was a little shocked

There are some ridiculously high-functioning cocaine addicts out there.

 

[Germanicus89]

This isn't anything radical.
http://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/de...10-web/2k10ResultsRev/NSDUHresultsRev2010.htm
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07448480309595719

I can't find anything about medical students in these papers, did I miss something? Or are we saying that college students = medical students?

Drug addicts shouldn't be doctors

Just for the sake of conversation, here's Oliver Sacks, a renowned physician, academician and writer, talking about his drug use as a medical resident.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/08/27/altered-states-3

He draws parallels between different drug induced experiences and those experiences described by patients suffering from psychiatric and neurological illnesses. It does sound like he became addicted to chloral hydrate during his fellowship.

 

[NewHorizons]

This isn't anything radical.
http://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/de...10-web/2k10ResultsRev/NSDUHresultsRev2010.htm
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07448480309595719

I'd like to see that citation, but it's kind've irrelevant. The real question is whether medical students (future doctors) should be doing any kind of nonprescribed drugs. I am not saying medical students should be immune to drug addiction/experimentation, I am saying cocaine usage should not be around 10%. Drug addicts should not be doctors.

Hope you aren't planning on applying to med school with that crappy (lack of) research!

The OP being true to their username.........

Even among medical students... I'm appalled at some of the blatantly bad skills with respect to critical appraisal of health care literature.

To the OP... before you search random articles from decades ago and use your false deductive reasoning and absolutes to make irrational conclusions:
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/gim/training/Osler/osler_JAMA_Steps.html
http://jamaevidence.mhmedical.com/learntools.aspx#tab=1
http://jamaevidence.mhmedical.com/book.aspx?bookID=847

Maybe try to at least know what the study type is and use some critical appraisal strategies to see how good it is ...

 

[WingedOx]

It's comforting to hear a study found cocaine use declining from 2002-2010. I wonder if that is still true? My experience in college is that many people do cocaine (enough for it to not be insane or weird but not enough for it to be rampant), especially people in Greek life (no I'm not saying that all Greek life students are cocaine addicts).

Watching 1990s graduates of my fraternity asking the current members where they could score cocaine was an annual homecoming tradition.

 

[Law2Doc]

while I am sure some percentage of med students have used drugs, I would point out that drug testing for residency and some med schools is much much more pervasive now than it was in the decades of OPs cited studies. So odds are things have dropped off pretty precipitously for that reason.

 

[AirplaneFruit]

So do med students take adderrall and stuff?

 

[Squamous Eddie]

So do med students take adderrall and stuff?

Probably. The same premeds who used it to study in undergrad are going to use it in med school. Might even be worse. I don't know any med students that do, though. Just weed on occasion, alcohol mostly.

 

[Law2Doc]

Probably. The same premeds who used it to study in undergrad are going to use it in med school. Might even be worse. I don't know any med students that do, though. Just weed on occasion, alcohol mostly.

From what I've seen the percentage of people who do any of this stuff in med school is just much much less than in college. Even in terms of alcohol you won't see the same kind of quantities being consumed. You celebrate after big exams but can't afford to lose the next day too with a lingering hangover.

 

[WingedOx]

From what I've seen the percentage of people who do any of this stuff in med school is just much much less than in college. Even in terms of alcohol you won't see the same kind of quantities being consumed. You celebrate after big exams but can't afford to lose the next day too with a lingering hangover.

My med school had many flaws. The fact our exams were almost always on Fridays was not one of them.

 

[GrapesofRath]

It's funny many many medical students I know really only started stepping up their drinking habbits/tendencies once medical school began compared to what they had in undergrad.

Obviously things are different 3rd year and beyond but for MS1/2 and parts of MS4, there are plenty I have known who managed their time well enough that they found at least one night a weekend(often 2) to splurge on the booze on non exam weeks. Therell always be that guy or two(Ive certainly met some) in every school wholl always find a way to not miss a happy hour and yet be near the top of the class when exam grades come out, even if they are in the strong minority.