Why do people recommend PA to medical students and premeds?

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27and 502was the mean for ALL DO schools.

I didn’t realize it was that easy to get into a DO School.

That’s a staggering difference from MD schools in my area.

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Of those other 50% how many of those programs are fully accredited (not working towards accreditation or on probation)?

This is not like going to a crap undergrad/nursing school with a guarantee to get your degree. If your PA program does not fill the accreditation guidelines you simply can NOT sit for the PANCE and then what are you going to do?
Not gettting accreditation from provisional accreditation is pretty rare. Beggars can’t be choosers. Stop acting like you can’t get in where you want because PA is so competitive. You’re options are limited because they don’t want med school drop outs.
 
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Hey all! 2nd year PA student here. Really sad for me to see such big egos from MD students here, considering those I've met on rotations have been incredibly humble, kind, and don't feel as if they're on some superior level than me. A pleasure to work with. Many of the rotations I've had have been shared with MD students, actually, with the MD student and myself doing the exact same work and reporting to the same attending physician. In fact, when the attending is pimping us, there have been many times where I knew more than the MD student. And vice versa of course.
Yeah our rotations are just as grueling as yours are, therefore, we need the same amount of prep.....so regarding PA school curriculum....daaaaaaamn it's very clear to me that none of you know jack **** about PA school lol. We learn things on a very in depth level because, um, hello, PAs are certified to diagnose and treat. Those who are saying we learn things at a surface level are really just assuming. I have tons of friends in MD and DO school and I study with them, they see my notes, I see theirs--we are essentially learning the same stuff. Please don't downplay it.

To address some of these other myths here...
First off I'm not sure why many on here think that PAs are med school rejects--I've never met a single PA student personally who even applied to med school. The PA profession is growing at an increasing rate, and many undergrads are seeking out a PA route instead of an MD/DO one.
I was pre-PA since my freshman year of college. Got my degree in neuroscience in the honors program of my university with a 4.0 GPA. Where I struggled was all of the patient care hours that are required for application. This limited the number of schools I could apply to--so I literally only applied to one school. I was nervous that I wouldn't get into PA school because there were only 30 slots so, ahem, I started studying for the MCAT to apply for med school as my backup. Yes, that's right. I ended up getting into the program though and accepted my seat ASAP because PA was what I really wanted to do. There is a massive chunk of PAs who could get into med school had it been what they wanted to go into, just as many med students could get into PA school.
What many of you here are neglecting are that there are soooo many reasons why someone would choose PA over MD/DO. I'm sorry I know it may be crazy to believe, but some of us really don't care about the "prestige" of things. I'm not sure why you all thing MD/DO is a million times better than PA so therefore it's king. Yes you're higher on the hierarchy and are able to do more, but that's not everyone's priority! I thought PA was a better choice than MD/DO, and that's just me. I wanted to get a kick start into my career more quickly and have the option of switching specialties because I have a lot of interests. I didn't want to be stuck in one aspect of medicine. Etc etc etc.
From my viewpoint, the main thing that seems to distinguish PA from MD/DO most is residency and some of the other testing you have. You also get more time in rotations so you get more electives and have a few more required rotations than we do I believe.

Bottom line-- just be humble, this circle jerk you're all having here is pretty silly and shows your insecurities. Makes it seem like you're just salty about something. Stop feeding into the stereotype that doctors have big egos and focus on your damn patients lol.
 
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Hey all! 2nd year PA student here. Really sad for me to see such big egos from MD students here, considering those I've met on rotations have been incredibly humble, kind, and don't feel as if they're on some superior level than me. A pleasure to work with. Many of the rotations I've had have been shared with MD students, actually, with the MD student and myself doing the exact same work and reporting to the same attending physician. In fact, when the attending is pimping us, there have been many times where I knew more than the MD student. And vice versa of course.
To address some of these myths here...
First off I'm not sure why many on here think that PAs are med school rejects--I've never met a single PA student personally who even considered med school. The PA profession is growing at an increasing rate, and many undergrads are seeking out a PA route instead of an MD/DO one.
I was pre-PA since my freshman year of college. Got my degree in neuroscience in the honors program of my university with a 4.0 GPA. Where I struggled was all of the patient care hours that are required for application. This limited the number of schools I could apply to--so I literally only applied to one school. I was nervous that I wouldn't get into PA school because there were only 30 slots so, ahem, I started studying for the MCAT to apply for med school as my backup. Yes, that's right. I ended up getting into the program though and accepted my seat ASAP because PA was what I really wanted to do. There is a massive chunk of PAs who could get into med school had it been what they wanted to go into, just as many med students could get into PA school.
What many of you here are neglecting are that there are soooo many reasons why someone would choose PA over MD/DO. I'm sorry I know it may be crazy to believe, but some of us really don't care about the "prestige" of things. I'm not sure why you all thing MD/DO is a million times better than PA so therefore it's king. Yes you're higher on the hierarchy and are able to do more, but that's not everyone's priority! I thought PA was a better choice than MD/DO, and that's just me. I wanted to get a kick start into my career more quickly and have the option of switching specialties because I have a lot of interests. I didn't want to be stuck in one aspect of medicine. Etc etc etc.
Regarding PA school curriculum....daaaaaaamn it's very clear to me that none of you know jack **** about PA school lol. We learn things on a very in depth level because, um, hello, PAs are certified to diagnose and treat. Those who are saying we learn things at a surface level are really just assuming. I have tons of friends in MD and DO school and I study with them, they see my notes, I see theirs--we are essentially learning the same stuff. Please don't downplay it.
From my viewpoint, the thing that seems to distinguish PA from MD/DO most is residency and some of the other testing you have. You also get more time in rotations so you get more electives and have a few more required rotations than we do I believe.
You are telling me you are getting the same education MD's get in 2 years instead of 4? Just think about that for a second. I know many PA's , and all of them admit that the level of detail required from them was much less compared to the MD students. There is nothing wrong with the PA route, and it has much better work life balance and decreased training time, but if you honestly think you had the same education that an MD /DO had you have no idea what the actual education entails or every DO MD is getting ripped off.
 
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Hey all! 2nd year PA student here. Really sad for me to see such big egos from MD students here, considering those I've met on rotations have been incredibly humble, kind, and don't feel as if they're on some superior level than me. A pleasure to work with. Many of the rotations I've had have been shared with MD students, actually, with the MD student and myself doing the exact same work and reporting to the same attending physician. In fact, when the attending is pimping us, there have been many times where I knew more than the MD student. And vice versa of course.
To address some of these myths here...
First off I'm not sure why many on here think that PAs are med school rejects--I've never met a single PA student personally who even considered med school. The PA profession is growing at an increasing rate, and many undergrads are seeking out a PA route instead of an MD/DO one.
I was pre-PA since my freshman year of college. Got my degree in neuroscience in the honors program of my university with a 4.0 GPA. Where I struggled was all of the patient care hours that are required for application. This limited the number of schools I could apply to--so I literally only applied to one school. I was nervous that I wouldn't get into PA school because there were only 30 slots so, ahem, I started studying for the MCAT to apply for med school as my backup. Yes, that's right. I ended up getting into the program though and accepted my seat ASAP because PA was what I really wanted to do. There is a massive chunk of PAs who could get into med school had it been what they wanted to go into, just as many med students could get into PA school.
What many of you here are neglecting are that there are soooo many reasons why someone would choose PA over MD/DO. I'm sorry I know it may be crazy to believe, but some of us really don't care about the "prestige" of things. I'm not sure why you all thing MD/DO is a million times better than PA so therefore it's king. Yes you're higher on the hierarchy and are able to do more, but that's not everyone's priority! I thought PA was a better choice than MD/DO, and that's just me. I wanted to get a kick start into my career more quickly and have the option of switching specialties because I have a lot of interests. I didn't want to be stuck in one aspect of medicine. Etc etc etc.
Regarding PA school curriculum....daaaaaaamn it's very clear to me that none of you know jack **** about PA school lol. We learn things on a very in depth level because, um, hello, PAs are certified to diagnose and treat. Those who are saying we learn things at a surface level are really just assuming. I have tons of friends in MD and DO school and I study with them, they see my notes, I see theirs--we are essentially learning the same stuff. Please don't downplay it.
From my viewpoint, the thing that seems to distinguish PA from MD/DO most is residency and some of the other testing you have. You also get more time in rotations so you get more electives and have a few more required rotations than we do I believe.

Highly skeptical we are learning to the same detail. If you have to learn how to distinguish a follicular carcinoma from a papillary one using the presence of Orphan Annie eye nuclei and Psammoma bodies, then I feel bad for the both of us. To answer the OP's question from 2017, PA is appealing because of a truncated curriculum, less liability, more flexibility, better hours and a solid salary. Why am I going to medical school again? Oh yeah...the Psammoma bodies.
 
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You are telling me you are getting the same education MD's get in 2 years instead of 4? Just think about that for a second. I know many PA's , and all of them admit that the level of detail required from them was much less compared to the MD students. There is nothing wrong with the PA route, and it has much better work life balance and decreased training time, but if you honestly think you had the same education that an MD /DO had you have no idea what the actual education entails.

We learn a lot of things at a quicker pace than you do, so some of the things that aren't entirely necessary clinically are left out. Like I said in my post, we literally share rotations with MD students. The clinical experience is the same. We just have less of it and don't get as many different rotations. Don't discredit what PAs can do. I'm very well aware that MDs/DOs know better and can do more--but most of that is because of residency. Not actual med school.
 
You are telling me you are getting the same education MD's get in 2 years instead of 4? Just think about that for a second. I know many PA's , and all of them admit that the level of detail required from them was much less compared to the MD students. There is nothing wrong with the PA route, and it has much better work life balance and decreased training time, but if you honestly think you had the same education that an MD /DO had you have no idea what the actual education entails or every DO MD is getting ripped off.
This. My roommate is a PA student and complains daily about the way they "brush over topics and fly through them".

Edit: Not discrediting the career by any means. I also once considered it and believe its a great career.
 
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We learn a lot of things at a quicker pace than you do, so some of the things that aren't entirely necessary clinically are left out. Like I said in my post, we literally share rotations with MD students. The clinical experience is the same. We just have less of it and don't get as many different rotations. Don't discredit what PAs can do. I'm very well aware that MDs/DOs know better and can do more--but most of that is because of residency. Not actual med school.
I am glad you can make that determination without actually learning about them.
 
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This. My roommate is a PA student and complains daily about the way they "brush over topics and fly through them".

No it depends on the subject and it also depends on your school's curriculum. With more schooling you get finer detail on some things, of course. But like I said....they teach us what is necessary clinically. How the hell do you think we have the qualifications to diagnose people?? and come up with our own treatment plans and order meds?? it's because we know our **** lol. After getting the hang of the job, often the MD or DO the PA is working doesn't find the need to make any corrections and just looks over things briefly and signs them.
 
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I am glad you can make that determination without actually learning about them.

If a PA can see their own patients, diagnose, and treat based off the education given, I'd say that's the case ;)
 
No it depends on the subject and it also depends on your school's curriculum. With more schooling you get finer detail on some things, of course. But like I said....they teach us what is necessary clinically. How the hell do you think we have the qualifications to diagnose people?? and come up with our own treatment plans and order meds?? it's because we know our **** lol. After getting the hang of the job, often the MD or DO the PA is working doesn't find the need to make any corrections and just looks over things briefly and signs them.
Just an observation...but then why is then at every hospital in my area the PA's in the ER work fast track? Seriously curious.
 
If a PA can see their own patients, diagnose, and treat based off the education given, I'd say that's the case ;)
You are forgetting the supervision part.
 
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Some of you need a little bit of brushing up on the PA profession it seems..... and a slice of humble pie lol.
As PAs, we know that our level of expertise is beneath a physician. But if you talk to many actual physicians working now, not still in school, they will likely tell you that they trust their PA to make all of the right decisions and they won't need to do anything but sign off the orders. Makes it easier on the docs because they have more time to focus on other patients/other things that need to be done. It's teamwork!
 
Hey all! 2nd year PA student here. Really sad for me to see such big egos from MD students here, considering those I've met on rotations have been incredibly humble, kind, and don't feel as if they're on some superior level than me. A pleasure to work with. Many of the rotations I've had have been shared with MD students, actually, with the MD student and myself doing the exact same work and reporting to the same attending physician. In fact, when the attending is pimping us, there have been many times where I knew more than the MD student. And vice versa of course.
Yeah our rotations are just as grueling as yours are, therefore, we need the same amount of prep.....so regarding PA school curriculum....daaaaaaamn it's very clear to me that none of you know jack **** about PA school lol. We learn things on a very in depth level because, um, hello, PAs are certified to diagnose and treat. Those who are saying we learn things at a surface level are really just assuming. I have tons of friends in MD and DO school and I study with them, they see my notes, I see theirs--we are essentially learning the same stuff. Please don't downplay it.

To address some of these other myths here...
First off I'm not sure why many on here think that PAs are med school rejects--I've never met a single PA student personally who even applied to med school. The PA profession is growing at an increasing rate, and many undergrads are seeking out a PA route instead of an MD/DO one.
I was pre-PA since my freshman year of college. Got my degree in neuroscience in the honors program of my university with a 4.0 GPA. Where I struggled was all of the patient care hours that are required for application. This limited the number of schools I could apply to--so I literally only applied to one school. I was nervous that I wouldn't get into PA school because there were only 30 slots so, ahem, I started studying for the MCAT to apply for med school as my backup. Yes, that's right. I ended up getting into the program though and accepted my seat ASAP because PA was what I really wanted to do. There is a massive chunk of PAs who could get into med school had it been what they wanted to go into, just as many med students could get into PA school.
What many of you here are neglecting are that there are soooo many reasons why someone would choose PA over MD/DO. I'm sorry I know it may be crazy to believe, but some of us really don't care about the "prestige" of things. I'm not sure why you all thing MD/DO is a million times better than PA so therefore it's king. Yes you're higher on the hierarchy and are able to do more, but that's not everyone's priority! I thought PA was a better choice than MD/DO, and that's just me. I wanted to get a kick start into my career more quickly and have the option of switching specialties because I have a lot of interests. I didn't want to be stuck in one aspect of medicine. Etc etc etc.
From my viewpoint, the main thing that seems to distinguish PA from MD/DO most is residency and some of the other testing you have. You also get more time in rotations so you get more electives and have a few more required rotations than we do I believe.

Bottom line-- just be humble, this circle jerk you're all having here is pretty silly and shows your insecurities. Makes it seem like you're just salty about something. Stop feeding into the stereotype that doctors have big egos and focus on your damn patients lol.

Obvious troll or militant PA...

But like I said....they teach us what is necessary clinically. How the hell do you think we have the qualifications to diagnose people?? and come up with our own treatment plans and order meds?? it's because we know our **** lol.


Paraphrase: "They somehow legally let me treat people, therefore I must have the qualifications to practice medicine"
 
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You are forgetting the supervision part.

I don't think you know much about PAs seriously....supervision isn't literal LOL. Many PAs barely even see their physician during a days work. PAs have their own patients separate from the physician.....the physician doesn't even SEE them. Literally at all. Supervising just means they sign and approve what we do. The only time a physician will actually physically be there with you is if you work in surgery or something, or discussing patients after the fact, etc. Actually regarding this word "supervision", in Michigan, the word supervising isn't even there anymore. it's now "in association" with a physician.
 
There is a massive chunk of PAs who could get into med school had it been what they wanted to go into, just as many med students could get into PA school.
Yeah, it's much better just to do the easier and shorter route and then say you're just as good as an MD/DO. I could have played in the NFL too, I just decided that it was more comfortable on the bench in high school.

From my viewpoint, the main thing that seems to distinguish PA from MD/DO most is residency and some of the other testing you have. You also get more time in rotations so you get more electives and have a few more required rotations than we do I believe.
Exactly. Better undergrad/MCAT scores, two more years of school, rigorous 3+ years of post-graduate training, career defining/intensive board exams, and a bigger chunk of 'tail' on the line for when people who pretend to be MD/DO mess up. Other than that, it's exactly the same.

I'm sorry I know it may be crazy to believe, but some of us really don't care about the "prestige" of things.
This is an excellent point. There is no need to care about prestige when you downplay the hard work and dedication of those who have gone on to earn a higher degree.
 
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Obvious troll or militant PA...

Paraphrase: They let me treat people, therefore I must know how to practice medicine

Hahahahaha

If you wanna keep your superiority complex, go for it!
 
Yeah, it's much better just to do the easier and shorter route and then say you're just as good as an MD/DO. I could have played in the NFL too, I just decided that it was more comfortable on the bench in high school.


Exactly. Better undergrad/MCAT scores, two more years of school, rigorous 3+ years of post-graduate training, career defining/intensive board exams, and a bigger chunk of 'tail' on the line for when people who pretend to be MD/DO mess up. Other than that, it's exactly the same.


This is an excellent point. There is no need to care about prestige when you downplay the hard work and dedication of those who have gone on to earn a higher degree.

LOL someone missed the point entirely.....
Never downplayed what MD/DOs do. But did you read the 3 pages of downplaying what PAs do? Yeah. Trying to draw the comparison of NFL vs high school is just pathetic on your part. It's hilarious that you reallllly think those who could get into med school, would. That's a bit delusional and egotistical.
It seems to me that you guys on here really require a lot of praise lol.
 
I don't think you know much about PAs seriously....supervision isn't literal LOL. Many PAs barely even see their physician during a days work. PAs have their own patients separate from the physician.....the physician doesn't even SEE them. Literally at all. Supervising just means they sign and approve what we do. The only time a physician will actually physically be there with you is if you work in surgery or something, or discussing patients after the fact, etc. Actually regarding this word "supervision", in Michigan, the word supervising isn't even there anymore. it's now "in association" with a physician.

Keep in mind, this is only after the MD has spent a significant amount of time with the PA and learns his/her strengths and weaknesses. Recurrent misdiagnoses will certainly make the relationship more of a baby-sitting deal...but if you are a rockstar, most MDs don't mind the PA taking care of low acuity patients with straight forward treatment plans. But to suggest most PAs are out there, practicing medicine on their own without input is a gross oversimplification. A great PA is an incredible resource, namely reducing work load while providing adequate care, but an average one or worse, a below average one can become a detriment over time with inefficient visits, misdiagnoses, treatment mistakes, etc.
 
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It's hilarious that you reallllly think those who could get into med school, would
Nothing but word-soup. Thank you for the extension of the "l" as well.
 
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Same to you regarding your inferiority complex

Nah, I just think you shouldn't feed into the stereotype of doctors having ridiculous egos. It's pointless and makes you difficult to work with. It's supposed to be a healthcare team. Team. The power trip isn't a cute look. PAs know damn well they are lower on the hierarchy than doctors, but you're not gods lol. Chill.
 
Keep in mind, this is only after the MD has spent a significant amount of time with the PA and learns his/her strengths and weaknesses. Recurrent misdiagnoses will certainly make the relationship more of a baby-sitting deal...but if you are a rockstar, most MDs don't mind the PA taking care of low acuity patients with straight forward treatment plans. But to suggest most PAs are out there, practicing medicine on their own without input is a gross oversimplification. A great PA is an incredible resource, namely reducing work load while providing adequate care, but an average one or worse, a below average one can become a detriment over time with inefficient visits, misdiagnoses, treatment mistakes, etc.

Nope, some of these PAs I know only had been working with their MD for a year or less. Which isn't long at all considering we don't have a formal residency deal. It does depend on the specialty though and how well you mesh with your physician. For more difficult specialties, yeah there's less we can be trusted with doing independently (unless you've been doing it for years and years or something). Surgery obviously has less independence, you spend a great deal of your time actually with the surgeon except for rounding, charting, discharging, etc. Stuff like family practice is pretty damn independent though. That is the thing with PA, it's dependent on the specialty, setting, and your physician's confidence in your abilities.
 
I had multiple advisors try to talk me into PA school: grades a little low for med school, way less training, still good pay and you get to go home at the end of the day.

Now that I'm a med student, I see many PAs get worked like dogs. There's cush gigs for sure, but a classmate who used to be an EM PA said that you essentially function like a resident your entire life and get treated as such. Also, you don't fully understand what's going on. That sounds awful.

On the plus side, you probably don't have to work overnights, and your name isn't at the bottom of the chart. My PA students were great a decade ago, but for-profit PA schools have been sprouting up like mushrooms, and the standards (just like NP school) appear to have declined. Now I send them to work with the techs and nurses because some can't even take a history and do a physical.
 
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It's very clear to me
On the plus side, you probably don't have to work overnights, and your name isn't at the bottom of the chart. My PA students were great a decade ago, but for-profit PA schools have been sprouting up like mushrooms, and the standards (just like NP school) appear to have declined. Now I send them to work with the techs and nurses because some can't even take a history and do a physical.

That's sad you've had that experience, it's certainly not like that where I live. On my first day of rotations I was sent out independently to see patients solo and do H&Ps, write a note including my attempt at assessment and plan, and then page my precepting doctor and present it to him. Where I live, PAs and med students are often on rotations together doing the same work. The PA school I attend has a great reputation for prepping us for rotations. But just as there are crappy med schools, there are crappy PA schools. Just a suggestion though, I think if you're volunteering your time to be a preceptor for students, you should be fair to them and at least try to teach them instead of being lazy and sending them off. They'll never learn that way, that's bad on your part.

Also totally false, lots of PAs have to work overnights and take a **** ton of call. That's just hospital life in general.
 
Nope, some of these PAs I know only had been working with their MD for a year or less. Which isn't long at all considering we don't have a formal residency deal. It does depend on the specialty though and how well you mesh with your physician. For more difficult specialties, yeah there's less we can be trusted with doing independently (unless you've been doing it for years and years or something). Surgery obviously has less independence, you spend a great deal of your time actually with the surgeon except for rounding, charting, discharging, etc. Stuff like family practice is pretty damn independent though. That is the thing with PA, it's dependent on the specialty, setting, and your physician's confidence in your abilities.
next time you interview for a job with a physician , tell them that you basically have the same training. Also if you have such a fragile ego, perhaps getting a degree with Assistant in the name was probably a bad idea.
 
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It's very clear to me


That's sad you've had that experience, it's certainly not like that where I live. On my first day of rotations I was sent out independently to see patients solo and do H&Ps, write a note including my attempt at assessment and plan, and then page my precepting doctor and present it to him. Where I live, PAs and med students are often on rotations together doing the same work. The PA school I attend has a great reputation for prepping us for rotations. But just as there are crappy med schools, there are crappy PA schools. Just a suggestion though, I think if you're volunteering your time to be a preceptor for students, you should be fair to them and at least try to teach them instead of being lazy and sending them off. They'll never learn that way, that's bad on your part.


Agreed. The university programs seem great. But here's the difference- crappy med school grads have to match into a residency. If they don't, they are out of the game. Nothing happens to the crappy PA grads from the ****ty for-profit programs. Trust me, the new ones from the for-profit school are so bad I can't ;et them near patients. I would prefer not to have PA students, but it was not my decision.

I was on your side, but you seem arrogant and clueless.
 
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next time you interview for a job with a physician , tell them that you basically have the same training. Also if you have such a fragile ego, perhaps getting a degree with Assistant in the name was probably a bad idea.

Next time you interview for a job, maybe you should at least try to seem convincing in that you're respectful of your healthcare team, belittling based on the semantics of a title isn't a good look.

And stop getting caught up in the "same training" bull****. I've said ten times over that the training is obviously more rigorous for med, that's why you have more authoritative power in decision making. Residency makes a big difference in the fact that you spend years focusing on your specialty and harnessing your skills. So obviously, you'll have more expertise. I never denied that. If we're talking the textbook learning of epidemiology, risk factors, presentation, diagnostic tests and imaging, treatment plan, prescribing meds, prognosis, etc etc, do not underestimate what a PA knows. We are taught this stuff. But since we don't have as much training, we need approval of our notes and orders from those who do.
 
Next time you interview for a job, maybe you should at least try to seem convincing in that you're respectful of your healthcare team, belittling based on the semantics of a title isn't a good look.

And stop getting caught up in the "same training" bull****. I've said ten times over that the training is obviously more rigorous for med, that's why you have more authoritative power in decision making. Residency makes a big difference in the fact that you spend years focusing on your specialty and harnessing your skills. So obviously, you'll have more expertise. I never denied that. If we're talking the textbook learning of epidemiology, risk factors, presentation, diagnostic tests and imaging, treatment plan, prescribing meds, prognosis, etc etc, do not underestimate what a PA knows. We are taught this stuff. But since we don't have as much training, we need approval of our notes and orders from those who do.
You know what they call people who have completed the same education and training as an MD/DO? A Physician.
 
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Agreed. The university programs seem great. But here's the difference- crappy med school grads have to match into a residency. If they don't, they are out of the game. Nothing happens to the crappy PA grads from the ****ty for-profit programs. Trust me, the new ones from the for-profit school are so bad I can't ;et them near patients. I would prefer not to have PA students, but it was not my decision.

I was on your side, but you seem arrogant and clueless.

I feel sorry for the students who get stuck with you, I'm sure they'd prefer not to have you either. Negativity is not conducive to learning.

Also based on your statement it sounds like you're saying a PA grad once certified can be extremely crappy and still maintain their job. Which makes no sense to me. In any career, if you're not able to perform, they just let you go.
 
I feel sorry for the students who get stuck with you, I'm sure they'd prefer not to have you either. Negativity is not conducive to learning.

Also based on your statement it sounds like you're saying a PA grad once certified can be extremely crappy and still maintain their job. Which makes no sense to me. In any career, if you're not able to perform, they just let you go.

Agreed. We are overwhelmed with underqualified students that we have no time to teach. Administration makes us. We hate it.

It can be very hard to fire someone. Many facilities are unionized.
 
I feel sorry for the students who get stuck with you, I'm sure they'd prefer not to have you either. Negativity is not conducive to learning.

Also based on your statement it sounds like you're saying a PA grad once certified can be extremely crappy and still maintain their job. Which makes no sense to me. In any career, if you're not able to perform, they just let you go.
I don’t know what your job experience is like, but that’s not true. You would be very surprised at the people who keep their jobs.
 
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You know what they call people who have completed the same education as an MD/DO? A Physician.

Yes, thank you for stating the obvious. Again, seems like you can't read or something because I highlighted my awareness of that in the exact post you replied to.
 
I don’t know what your job experience is like, but that’s not true. You would be very surprised at the people who keep their jobs.

I suppose that is true, but there will always be people like that no matter where you go or what you're working in. Hell, I even hear doctors bitch about how other fellow doctors are crappy and incompetent all the time. That's just the way it goes for everything.
 
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Yes, thank you for stating the obvious. Again, seems like you can't read or something because I highlighted my awareness of that in the exact post you replied to.
You state that an MD /DO education is equivalent to a PAs . Once again be sure to say that during interviews. Employers should know what they are getting. Also be sure to tell hat to the attending you are rotating with. I'm sure they will offer you a raise a promotion and a great eval immediately for your observational and self assessment skills.
 
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Agreed. We are overwhelmed with underqualified students that we have no time to teach. Administration makes us. We hate it.

It can be very hard to fire someone. Many facilities are unionized.

Again, I have no idea where it is you are working, I'm sure it varies state to state. Where I live, every preceptor voluntarily chooses to take us. I'd say about half of my preceptors are physicians and they are very pleasant, encouraging, and helpful.
 
No doubt about it if i had a chance to go to a PA school i would take it but two huge hurdles stand in my way:

1. fact i withdrew from a us md school
2. i dont even have CLOSE to the recommended 1000-2000+ hours of medical work experience or even any shadowing of a PA
I can't let this go. Have you ever talked to a PA program director? The PA school at my school has taken people who quit med school after a year cause they decided the PA route was better for them. They made them (the med dropouts) put an app together to do it and applied like everyone else, but they took them. At one point I even considered this as my advisor (who was a physician that taught more in the PA program) was encouraging me to do this.

I look at your posts and just see fear and defeat. Can't get 1k of clinical hours? Are you kidding me? Thats 6 months full time! WTH else do you have to do! You need a job anyway. Go be a tech or scribe. Surely having done two years of medical school you have the ability to be a scribe.
 
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You state that an MD /DO education is equivalent to a PAs . Once again be sure to say that during interviews. Employers should know what they are getting. Also be sure to tell hat to the attending you are rotating with.

Once again, be sure you know how to read. I'm very concerned for you that you really can't seem to do that. I'll outline that for the 10th time since you need extra help. MD/DO is more education, it is a longer program, and requires a residency where you develop your expertise. An MD/DO education overall is more education than PA (no ****). What I'm saying aka what you seem to not be getting, is that the material we learn in the classroom is very similar and what we do on rotations is very similar, like I've said, I've been on the exact same rotations with med students, sharing the exact same preceptor, doing the exact same thing. The attendings I've rotated with tend to actually be humble human beings and treat me the exact same as their medical students, asking me the same questions, giving me the same tasks, and have confidence in me. And I do everything I can to soak up anything I can learn from them like a sponge because I know they're the best resource. It's called mutual respect.
 
Once again, be sure you know how to read. I'm very concerned for you that you really can't seem to do that. I'll outline that for the 10th time since you need extra help. MD/DO is more education, it is a longer program, and requires a residency where you develop your expertise. An MD/DO education overall is more education than PA (no ****). What I'm saying aka what you seem to not be getting, is that the material we learn in the classroom is very similar and what we do on rotations is very similar, like I've said, I've been on the exact same rotations with med students, sharing the exact same preceptor, doing the exact same thing. The attendings I've rotated with tend to actually be humble human beings and treat me the exact same as their medical students, asking me the same questions, giving me the same tasks, and have confidence in me. And I do everything I can to soak up anything I can learn from them like a sponge because I know they're the best resource. It's called mutual respect.


I lost it when the last PA student started promising patients different tests, and when he didn't know what an exudate was. Never again will they see my patients solo. Never. They can read, shadow the techs and learn splinting, or follow me into rooms. Done.
 
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Look at the link I submitted for Keck pa.their average mcat/gpa is higher than or equivalent to a large number of DO schools.

The pre-requisite classes for PA and MD/DO are very different. Majority of PA schools do not require Ochem series or Biochem. And even more do not require Physics. Anatomy/Physio/Micro are all pre reqs for PA...more obviously but not going to list them
 
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I lost it when the last PA student started promising patients different tests, and when he didn't know what an exudate was. Never again will they see my patients solo. Never. They can read, shadow the techs and learn splinting, or follow me into rooms. Done.

Seriously?? The school where your students come from must be really bad... jeez
 
The pre-requisite classes for PA and MD/DO are very different. Majority of PA schools do not require Ochem series or Biochem. And even more do not require Physics. Anatomy/Physio/Micro are all pre reqs for PA...more obviously but not going to list them

For my PA program I took two semesters of Ochem with the labs, had to take two semesters of biochemistry, two semesters of physics with the labs, etc etc. Generally though, if the person applying for PA school is a some kind of science major (vast majority) they'll have taken all of these classes anyway to obtain their bachelors lol. The prereqs for PA school are kinda wild though in the sense that they vary soooo much from school to school. They need to standardize it. One school I was looking at required a childhood development class and I'm like wtf thats so random lol
 
The issue with PA and NP schools is that while the good programs are fine, the bad ones are so incredibly bad and they are still allowed to function.
 
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For my PA program I took two semesters of Ochem with the labs, had to take two semesters of biochemistry, two semesters of physics with the labs, etc etc. Generally though, if the person applying for PA school is a some kind of science major (vast majority) they'll have taken all of these classes anyway to obtain their bachelors lol. The prereqs for PA school are kinda wild though in the sense that they vary soooo much from school to school. They need to standardize it. One school I was looking at required a childhood development class and I'm like wtf thats so random lol
For my PA program I took two semesters of Ochem with the labs, had to take two semesters of biochemistry, two semesters of physics with the labs, etc etc. Generally though, if the person applying for PA school is a some kind of science major (vast majority) they'll have taken all of these classes anyway to obtain their bachelors lol. The prereqs for PA school are kinda wild though in the sense that they vary soooo much from school to school. They need to standardize it. One school I was looking at required a childhood development class and I'm like wtf thats so random lol
in my area there are a lot of programs that are combined BS/Masters that condense a bachelors and cut out a TON of classes. Crazy imo. Someone coming out of high school, getting accepted to this, and being a PA within 4.5 years of high school graduation.
 
Just an observation...but then why is then at every hospital in my area the PA's in the ER work fast track? Seriously curious.

Not just in your area (unless were neighbors)...I'm an ER tech and PA's are stuck with the chief complaints of abdominal pains, stubbed toe, or abscess drainage.
 
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Not just in your area (unless were neighbors)...I'm an ER tech and PA's are stuck with the chief complaints of abdominal pains, stubbed toe, or abscess drainage.
Yes. Also many of the clinics around here, seems that the PAs get stuck seeing colds or follow ups all day. Even worse are the PAs who get stuck working for surgeons that have them filtering patients all day to determine who is a surgical case (aka can get them money).
 
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