Why do people still consider going to pharmacy schools when they already know there won't be a job?

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I still would. It's not about money for me.

then you have your answer and can disregard the quote. Wish there is more people like that that also know how to budget.

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you see, if more people would just come out and say why they did pharmacy like this, i wouldnt have a problem....but seriously, how many would join if salaries were around 55k? 65k?? shoot 70k??? to tell me its passion over compensation seems very....off for most people

Salaries are already around $70-80k when adjusted for student loans and being in a higher tax bracket.
 
Salaries are already around $70-80k when adjusted for student loans and being in a higher tax bracket.

yes i know this, more reason to state how many more people would go through with the facts. With a 28-31% tax going in, with the 800 - 2200 monthly payment to loans (depending how fast many want to get out of debt) not to mention other X-factors, I think once again its important to ask another question: How many know how to budget
 
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yes i know this, more reason to state how many more people would go through with the facts. With a 28-31% tax going in, with the 800 - 2200 monthly payment to loans (depending how fast many want to get out of debt) not to mention other X-factors, I think once again its important to ask another question: How many know how to budget

Very true. Technically you can pay the lowest possible loan payment for longer and buy the fancy cars and spend it up, but you pay for that in the long run. Plus it's not just about the here and now either. If you don't save for retirement - and not count on social security in case it's no longer there - then you'll be in for a world of hurt later on even if salaries doubled.
 
Not trying to be a troll...but I am very curiouheart? people think about this. Please explain why you go to pharmacy school, pre-pharmers. Thank you.
Why are you on the student doctor forum? Im not buying that you are trying to warn people about the lack of jobs out of the kindness of your heart. How do you figure business or finance is better? there are pharmacies popping up left and right seems to me they would have job openings.
 
Why are you on the student doctor forum? Im not buying that you are trying to warn people about the lack of jobs out of the kindness of your heart. How do you figure business or finance is better? there are pharmacies popping up left and right seems to me they would have job openings.

What scientific method of determining the job availability. How many open or not is not what's important but rather how many open compared to the number of students graduating per year.

If you've watched the news lately, you'd know that a large amount of CVS's have let go of all their overnight pharmacists to return the store to regular store hours. Walgreens has also acquired Rite-Aid, which will inevitably lead to terminations with so many of their stores in close proximity to each other.
 
Why are you on the student doctor forum? Im not buying that you are trying to warn people about the lack of jobs out of the kindness of your heart. How do you figure business or finance is better? there are pharmacies popping up left and right seems to me they would have job openings.

What scientific method of determining the job availability. How many open or not is not what's important but rather how many open compared to the number of students graduating per year.

If you've watched the news lately, you'd know that a large amount of CVS's have let go of all their overnight pharmacists to return the store to regular store hours. Walgreens has also acquired Rite-Aid, which will inevitably lead to terminations with so many of their stores in close proximity to each other.

That is correct. Not only are pharmacies consolidating/closing due partly due to low PBM reimbursements, but pharmacy schools are popping up left and right. With the oversupply of new grads, any available openings will be flooded with applications.

In my opinion, finance, business, engineering, and computer programming are safer routes as of now because they do not require you to take out $200k+ student loans yet still have similar job security and take-home pay.
 
That is correct. Not only are pharmacies consolidating/closing due partly due to low PBM reimbursements, but pharmacy schools are popping up left and right. With the oversupply of new grads, any available openings will be flooded with applications.

In my opinion, finance, business, engineering, and computer programming are safer routes as of now because they do not require you to take out $200k+ student loans yet still have similar job security and take-home pay.

You say this over and over on multiple threads and websites. Newsflash: the people that are interested in pharmacy are most likely NOT interested in those types of fields. Perhaps, a large number of individuals who decide to go into pharmacy school presently would rather work in rural/inner city/"less attractive" areas as a pharmacist over working as a financial analyst or software engineer in a big city.

Lastly, since you seem to be such a huge fan of the industries you listed, why don't YOU transfer into one of those fields instead of telling others to do so?
 
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That is correct. Not only are pharmacies consolidating/closing due partly due to low PBM reimbursements, but pharmacy schools are popping up left and right. With the oversupply of new grads, any available openings will be flooded with applications.

In my opinion, finance, business, engineering, and computer programming are safer routes as of now because they do not require you to take out $200k+ student loans yet still have similar job security and take-home pay.

I agree that comp. science is in high demand and yeah not so much debt. But you need to realize that you need to be good programmer to get hired even at smallest company. If you are looking for top gig, you better be coming out of top 10 comp. science school. For example , my bf graduated from MIT so he had all top companies calling him left and right. Yes he started off pretty well and doing great, he doesn't have any debt thanks to his parents. So its working out for him. Where as i have friend who graduated from okay school , had hard time finding job for more than 9 months , is working for alright company. Probably making 60 K..So just depends who you are and let me tell you programming is hardddd..

And this doesn't mean i don't agree with your pharmacy profession view, you are so right about it. It is going down hill...
 
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That is correct. Not only are pharmacies consolidating/closing due partly due to low PBM reimbursements, but pharmacy schools are popping up left and right. With the oversupply of new grads, any available openings will be flooded with applications.

In my opinion, finance, business, engineering, and computer programming are safer routes as of now because they do not require you to take out $200k+ student loans yet still have similar job security and take-home pay.
news flash X2 you have no idea what your are talking about I have a business degree and unless you want to lick someone butt all day being and admin. asst. you are screwed.
 
What scientific method of determining the job availability. How many open or not is not what's important but rather how many open compared to the number of students graduating per year.

If you've watched the news lately, you'd know that a large amount of CVS's have let go of all their overnight pharmacists to return the store to regular store hours. Walgreens has also acquired Rite-Aid, which will inevitably lead to terminations with so many of their stores in close proximity to each other.
how would you even know that number? you have searched every possible job opening and compared it to the number of graduates? I dont know your situation but if you have a degree in pharmacy and cant find work it may be because you dont know how to look for a job. you need to network. get to know people volunteer do what it takes. so if you are a slacker who had your parents do everything for you until now, eg apply for school talk to professors get you tutors, you will have a hard time. in life no matter what the field.
 
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how would you even know that number? you have searched every possible job opening and compared it to the number of graduates? I dont know your situation but if you have a degree in pharmacy and cant find work it may be because you dont know how to look for a job. you need to network. get to know people volunteer do what it takes. so if you are a slacker who had your parents do everything for you until now, eg apply for school talk to professors get you tutors, you will have a hard time. in life no matter what the field.

Don't know why you went on that little tangent on how *I* should find a job all based on a hypothetical. It really doesn't apply to me or most of the people who are having difficulty finding a job currently (though I won't deny some people fit your hypothetical situation).

But if you must know, I'm happily employed with relatively little effort. Though not without having to make a few small compromises.

As for your first question, I only *truly* know about the job availability in my state. I never said that I knew the job market everywhere firsthand. But it's easy to see some of the general trends going on nationwide such as the ones I mentioned before and more schools opening.
 
Don't know why you went on that little tangent on how *I* should find a job all based on a hypothetical. It really doesn't apply to me or most of the people who are having difficulty finding a job currently (though I won't deny some people fit your hypothetical situation).

But if you must know, I'm happily employed with relatively little effort. Though not without having to make a few small compromises.

As for your first question, I only *truly* know about the job availability in my state. I never said that I knew the job market everywhere firsthand. But it's easy to see some of the general trends going on nationwide such as the ones I mentioned before and more schools opening.
*I* cant.
 
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The sad reality is that our youth don't focus on the sciences, thus, the number of undergrads able to complete the prerequisites for any Rx school will be lower than what you'd think. It's a sad reality. There are a number of schools, but a lot of them are satellite campuses still affiliated with major public schools, which can be regulated with more ease than say, independent private institutions.

I do agree that many new grads may live 20-30 mins further than where they'd like, and really, a young pharmacist may have to raise a family in BFE...but is this so terrible?

I really think that it could be much, much worse than pharmacy. I will say this though, I am an arduous proponent of making SURE, that new pharmacy schools don't water down the prerequisite courses. I don't really care about one test score....but the day they start removing calc, Orgo Chem, and physics, will be the day I will say yes, all the haters were accurate in their prediction. But that probably won't happen.
 
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The sad reality is that our youth don't focus on the sciences, thus, the number of undergrads able to complete the prerequisites for any Rx school will be lower than what you'd think. It's a sad reality. There are a number of schools, but a lot of them are satellite campuses still affiliated with major public schools, which can be regulated with more ease than say, independent private institutions.

I do agree that many new grads may live 20-30 mins further than where they'd like, and really, a young pharmacist may have to raise a family in BFE...but is this so terrible?

I really think that it could be much, much worse than pharmacy. I will say this though, I am an arduous proponent of making SURE, that new pharmacy schools don't water down the prerequisite courses. I don't really care about one test score....but the day they start removing calc, Orgo Chem, and physics, will be the day I will say yes, all the haters were accurate in their prediction. But that probably won't happen.

With today's admission standards, students who merely "pass" prerequisites with a C average can get into pharmacy school, whereas to get into med, dental, and pharmacy prior to 2010, you have to earn mostly A's. We are health professionals with doctorates; our level of responsibility is a lot more than being a lab tech with a degree in biology. Mistakes can result in patients getting harmed and/or our licenses sanctioned.

While pharmacy isn't the worst field out there yet, it still has room to get much worse as new schools continue to open each year and mergers result in some pharmacists becoming redundant. There are other fields that pay decently, have job security as good as pharmacy if not better, do not require you to move to BFE, and do not require you to risk $200k+ loans and 4 years to end up stuck in retail, underemployed, or unemployed.
 
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Hello, yes I agree with many of your points. But I think most public schools 4 years for Pharm will be below 200k. Unless you go to private institutions. Even the more expensive public schools still will be below 200k. Passing with a C average is a 2.0, the worst schools I've seen for Rx (and there are a few perhaps), have GPA's average high 2's. This is a minority of schools. Still, for reputable schools, and those that are ranked highly, intense admissions standards are still required.

In terms of the health professionals, I definitely agree with what you say, but I'd like to mention that there are others, such as podiatry, nurse practitioner, DO's, optometrists, clinicla lab science, hygienist, psychology, occupational/physical therapists, even chiropracters who are given "licenses", whilst their gpa's are not as competitive as medical and dentistry. There will be several students in those fields with GPA's in the upper 2's.

My undergrad gpa was a 3.32 from a TT public instit and afterwards perhaps like you, had an affinity to chemistry. I saw Sean Connery's "medicine man" as a teenager and just naively thought I could make a difference. Notebooks! I kept good notes!!! I am published in high impact pharmaceutical research as first (2) and co-author, and I just have an attraction to this field naturally, other than dentistry. Not many understand those concepts like we can. I'd like to mention that pharmacy does still have a respectable prerequisite requirement as opposed to , say PT.

All I'm saying is that every field has it's pros and cons. And the world isn't as academically demanding as some may believe. Also, with the opening of new medical schools and DO schools and nursing programs in the next 5 years, I'm reluctant to push people towards medicine. If money is yoru thing, then why would you go to medical school just to be a FP? Must be a disappointment for several, on match day. Thank you for your correspondence.
 
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I will also add, that if what we're looking at is GPA, then there are tons of student who get into med school from low tier undergrads. I do firmly believe, sadly, that obtaining a high gpa and a lower tier, is significantly easier than a top public. For whatever that's worth.
 
When I graduated in 2011 there were lots of jobs in my home state. When I completed my community residency in 2012 there were not, at least not where I wanted to live. I took a job one state south and moved when I found a position in a city I wanted to live in for a company I wanted to work for. It turned out that the manager there was a difficult person to work for and with, and I was working fewer hours than promised. After 15 months, I gave notice and took a pharmacy manager job at another pharmacy, where I had also had prior experience as a tech and knew I would like. It has been a great place to work and I will probably leave only if my husband gets a promotion within his company that causes us to move.

I can see saturation being problematic in some markets. Since it is easiest to network for jobs where one goes to school, people may want to consider going to school where they would like to ultimately live and avoiding schools in zones of saturation.

If we start seeing over saturation on a national level, schools will start to close or reduce seats and shift to other professional programs.


Refreshing it is, to find a voice of reason!!!!
 
I don't understand this thread at all. If someone has a passion for pharmacy and they want to do it, who are you to tell them not to? Maybe some of us aren't in it to get a fat paycheck or live a perfect life, some of us have a passion for the field and are rewarded by merely being able to do that job. To say there will be NO jobs is unrealistic. Yes there may be less jobs, but that doesn't mean there's none. Just like every other job out there, you have to be flexible and work hard to get a job. If you truly love pharmacy and you know it is something you want, having to relocate or taking a job in a branch of pharmacy that maybe isn't your number one perfect choice shouldn't matter that much, because in the end you're still getting to do something you love. Reading this post and seeing some of the prepharmers saying things like "I don't even want to do this anymore" and "I regret this choice" highly concerns me, because if that's how you feel you shouldn't be in the field to begin with. If a few statistics and concerns turn you away from the field completely, then I don't think you made the right choice to pursue this anyways.

Yes it may be hard to find a job, yes we may have some student loans, yes we may have to make sacrifices along the way, but that just means we need to work hard for the things we want, not turn away and give up because circumstances are less than ideal and we won't just be handed what we want on a silver platter.

Don't get me wrong, I am totally aware of the concerns and have put countless amounts of thought into them as well, but in my personal opinion it just fuels me to work harder, and the passion I've developed for this field will always be enough to overcome these concerns.
said pre-pharm
 
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I checked your profile page and it says you are PharmdD The majority of your post are in threads about why you shouldn't go to Pharmacy School.
Are you a graduate who cannot find a job. If that is not the issue why are you so determined to sway people into not going.
 
BLS is the most BS organization ever....

While I don't normally take BLS stats as gospel, their predictions are useful for general trends for the near future rather than the distant. In 2010, their projected growth rate for jobs was 25%, then 14% in 2012, then finally 3% now. The decrease is most likely correlated with the nation getting over baby boomer population bump but more importantly the increase in pharmacy schools.
There was a shortage some years ago, but schools filled it up quick and overcompensated, increasing pharmacy graduates from ~8000 to ~15000 over the last 10 years.

While I think the 3% job growth of 910 jobs a year may be exaggerated, I believe it will hopefully be beneficial in deterring new schools from opening and new students from applying completely ignorant of the job outlook. But judging from the amount of jobs from 2012 to 2014 from BLS, employment increased from 287,420 pharmacists to 297,100. A difference of 4.8k new jobs in 1 year. So maybe the prediction isn't too far from the truth unless their data itself is inaccurate.

In any case, it's much better than the pharmacy manpower bullcrap.

EDIT: Here's a site you can go to for state-specific projections.
http://www.projectionscentral.com/
 
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Hello!
I read through this post and I have a question!

is it possible for a pharmacist in the future to own their own practice? or is doing this not a good idea at this point?
if you own a practice there shouldn't be a problem finding a job?

Thank you!
 
Hello!
I read through this post and I have a question!

is it possible for a pharmacist in the future to own their own practice? or is doing this not a good idea at this point?
if you own a practice there shouldn't be a problem finding a job?

Thank you!
You can own all you want. I have owned 5 pharmacies the past 10 years and currently own 2. You will have to fill more scripts than you think to actually break even. Reimbursements are falling by the day. Our median profit (reimbursement minus cost of drug) on a generic medication is about $2. Competing against big box stores is not the problem. The PBM monopoly is the problem. If you own a pharmacy you will have to learn to deal with PBM games like predatory audits that focus only on high $$$ items, mandatory mail order, and negative reimbursements. Usually patients will be able to use your pharmacy for 2 fills then must use the mail order. The negative reimbursement model is used by optum and cigna where a patient would have a $15 copay for Zpack. .then on the back end the PBM takes away $12.50 from you ...leaving you with $2.50 on an item that costs $1. If the patient paid that $15 with a credit card, then you owe the credit card company 3% for conducting the transaction. If the rx was escribed...you pay 18 cents for the escribe and 8 cents to send the claim electronically to the PBM. Pharmacy went down the toilet when Walmart came up with the $4 rx and CVS was allowed to purchase Caremark. The national pharmacy organizations focus too much on MTM and "provider status" instead of fighting for fair reimbursement. A pharmacy will never be able to generate much income from MTM and there are enough providers (NP,PA,MD,DO) available to perform assessments and treatment plans that pharmacist "prescribers" are not needed. If you decide to own a pharmacy then the dispensing part of the pharmacy should be used to bring the patient in so they can buy other items in the store. Hope this helps.

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You can own all you want. I have owned 5 pharmacies the past 10 years and currently own 2. You will have to fill more scripts than you think to actually break even. Reimbursements are falling by the day. Our median profit (reimbursement minus cost of drug) on a generic medication is about $2. Competing against big box stores is not the problem. The PBM monopoly is the problem. If you own a pharmacy you will have to learn to deal with PBM games like predatory audits that focus only on high $$$ items, mandatory mail order, and negative reimbursements. Usually patients will be able to use your pharmacy for 2 fills then must use the mail order. The negative reimbursement model is used by optum and cigna where a patient would have a $15 copay for Zpack. .then on the back end the PBM takes away $12.50 from you ...leaving you with $2.50 on an item that costs $1. If the patient paid that $15 with a credit card, then you owe the credit card company 3% for conducting the transaction. If the rx was escribed...you pay 18 cents for the escribe and 8 cents to send the claim electronically to the PBM. Pharmacy went down the toilet when Walmart came up with the $4 rx and CVS was allowed to purchase Caremark. The national pharmacy organizations focus too much on MTM and "provider status" instead of fighting for fair reimbursement. A pharmacy will never be able to generate much income from MTM and there are enough providers (NP,PA,MD,DO) available to perform assessments and treatment plans that pharmacist "prescribers" are not needed. If you decide to own a pharmacy then the dispensing part of the pharmacy should be used to bring the patient in so they can buy other items in the store. Hope this helps.

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Thank you so much for your explanation!!
 
Just FYI for all you frens, the BLS data states there will be 3% new jobs total in the next 10 years (9100 new jobs). When I entered pharm school in 2008, this percentage was in the mid or high teens (and projected as much faster than average). Good luck...
 
You can own all you want. I have owned 5 pharmacies the past 10 years and currently own 2. You will have to fill more scripts than you think to actually break even. Reimbursements are falling by the day. Our median profit (reimbursement minus cost of drug) on a generic medication is about $2. Competing against big box stores is not the problem. The PBM monopoly is the problem. If you own a pharmacy you will have to learn to deal with PBM games like predatory audits that focus only on high $$$ items, mandatory mail order, and negative reimbursements. Usually patients will be able to use your pharmacy for 2 fills then must use the mail order. The negative reimbursement model is used by optum and cigna where a patient would have a $15 copay for Zpack. .then on the back end the PBM takes away $12.50 from you ...leaving you with $2.50 on an item that costs $1. If the patient paid that $15 with a credit card, then you owe the credit card company 3% for conducting the transaction. If the rx was escribed...you pay 18 cents for the escribe and 8 cents to send the claim electronically to the PBM. Pharmacy went down the toilet when Walmart came up with the $4 rx and CVS was allowed to purchase Caremark. The national pharmacy organizations focus too much on MTM and "provider status" instead of fighting for fair reimbursement. A pharmacy will never be able to generate much income from MTM and there are enough providers (NP,PA,MD,DO) available to perform assessments and treatment plans that pharmacist "prescribers" are not needed. If you decide to own a pharmacy then the dispensing part of the pharmacy should be used to bring the patient in so they can buy other items in the store. Hope this helps.

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might be the post of the year. The year is young, but still really hits home. I can't stand these "pharmacy leaders" preaching mtm and keeping quiet as number of schools double. They all take the oath to do what's best for the profession, how soon they forget.
 
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Right now all the professional Pharmacists are saying pharmacy isn't a good field
What about 10 or 15 years down the line? will job prospects get better or worse in the distant future?

Thank you!
 
Right now all the professional Pharmacists are saying pharmacy isn't a good field
What about 10 or 15 years down the line? will job prospects get better or worse in the distant future?

Thank you!

Always hard to predict the future lol. I can tell you the emerging clinical roles that were used to explain the openning of more pharmacy schools have not been realized. Some predict closure on pharmacy schools and drastic decline In applicants. I have already seen quality of pharmacy interns decline in my practice. I think we will enter the doom and gloom years of pharmacy in five years which will last for 10 to 15 years. When supply starts to match demand better, things will improve. It pains me say this, but the next 10 to 15 years will not be pretty.
 
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At the end of the day Pharmaceutical Industry is worth 300 BILLION dollars, and is expected to grow another 100 BILLION dollars. The typical walgreens/cvs Pharmacist might get hacked but this in an industry that is growing and growing in many ways. As a pre Pharm student their will be work but our talents will have to shine and be implemented in ways unprecedented. WE pre-Pharm students and hopefully one day Pharmacists will be the new pioneers of this grand industry. Im not saying its going to be easy, but the great things in life dont come easy. GO FALCONS CUW CONCORDIA UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN
 
I want to be a clinical pharmacist and specialize in oncology :)
there are great opportunities in clinical pharm. I hate retail lol
 
I want to be a clinical pharmacist and specialize in oncology :)
there are great opportunities in clinical pharm. I hate retail lol

99% of pharmacy students hate retails. But unfortunately, that's mainly where the jobs are. If you want to be a clincal pharmacist specializing in oncology, you would have to spend extra 2 years of residency. If so, I'd rather go straight to MD and be a real doctor. Also, you need to know that there won't be many jobs for oncology specialists in our field. Only big hospitals have such positions. Even so, each hospital likely have 1 clinical pharmacist specializing in oncology. So your chance of lading such job is very minimal .
 
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99% of pharmacy students hate retails. But unfortunately, that's mainly where the jobs are. If you want to be a clincal pharmacist specializing in oncology, you would have to spend extra 2 years of residency. If so, I'd rather go straight to MD and be a real doctor. Also, you need to know that there won't be many jobs for oncology specialists in our field. Only big hospitals have such positions. Even so, each hospital likely have 1 clinical pharmacist specializing in oncology. So your chance of lading such job is very minimal .

I don't mind spending an extra 2 years doing a residency. My passion is not to become a doctor, it is to become a pharmacist. In short, medicine has helped my father live longer. Medicine is such a powerful and fascinating topic to learn.
Yes it is hard to get a job in oncology, BUT it is possible.
If you want something bad enough, you will make it happen...no matter how long it takes or how hard it is to get it.
 
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I don't mind spending an extra 2 years doing a residency. My passion is not to become a doctor, it is to become a pharmacist. In short, medicine has helped my father live longer. Medicine is such a powerful and fascinating topic to learn.
Yes it is hard to get a job in oncology, BUT it is possible.
If you want something bad enough, you will make it happen...no matter how long it takes or how hard it is to get it.
Medicine also helps 10588866898875288887 people, not just your dad. If you are truly fascinated and curious about how drugs work, you should pursue a PhD in pharmacology, not Pharm. D. These two degree are served with totally different purposes. With PharmD, you are pretty much a pill pusher if working at retail settings. Also, if you work at hospitals, you will have very limited decision making in patients drug therapy. The ultimate decision maker is the doctor... MD. You can recommend all you want.. But at the end of the day, the MD might usually ignore whatever you recommend.
 
I don't mind spending an extra 2 years doing a residency. My passion is not to become a doctor, it is to become a pharmacist. In short, medicine has helped my father live longer. Medicine is such a powerful and fascinating topic to learn.
Yes it is hard to get a job in oncology, BUT it is possible.
If you want something bad enough, you will make it happen...no matter how long it takes or how hard it is to get it.

What exactly do you think oncology pharmacists do, exactly? They round with the doctor, make recommendations to the doctor, and answer consults from the doctor. It's semantics really to say "my passion is not to become a doctor, it is to become a pharmacist" if your true passion is oncology. There's obviously something you're not saying in that there's a reason you don't want to become a doctor. Maybe it's that you don't want so much direct contact with patients or maybe you think you may not be admissable to medical school, both perfectly understandable reasons. I won't lie, the reason I didn't apply for med school is additional number of years I'd have to spend and the work that carries over into the home life.

But, if you really wanted it bad enough and willing to spend extra years to be involved in oncology, these reasons just sound like an excuse as you would make that much more of a difference as an oncology doctor.
 
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You realize that article is based on the 2012-2022 BLS projections for 14% growth, and the new projection came out a few weeks ago for 2014-2024 with an updated 3% instead, and that I quoted this maybe a few posts up right?

And this "Lee" character, a "career analyst", that they quote in the article is patently wrong about the profession and obviously knows little about the career.

"He says the vast majority of pharmacists work in hospitals, which are not as stressful as drugstore chains."--....what?
 
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Not trying to be a troll...but I am very curious how people think about this. Please explain why you go to pharmacy school, pre-pharmers. Thank you.

people consider still attending pharmacy school because its their only option. What do you do when you have a horrific GPA and low exam scores?
You can't get into more difficult professional programs like medical, veterinary, dental schools so they must settle for something else.
And when admission into pharmacy school is such a joke, most people jump at the chance and have no choice but to blindly ignore the
reality of its job outlook. If I had wasted my time in college with a bad GPA then I may have done the same, luckily I took college seriously and
have much better options on the table.
 
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people consider still attending pharmacy school because its their only option. What do you do when you have a horrific GPA and low exam scores?
You can't get into more difficult professional programs like medical, veterinary, dental schools so they must settle for something else.
And when admission into pharmacy school is such a joke, most people jump at the chance and have no choice but to blindly ignore the
reality of its job outlook. If I had wasted my time in college with a bad GPA then I may have done the same, luckily I took college seriously and
have much better options on the table.
Bingo...finally some honest answers are here. Garbage in =garbage out. Soon these unemployed PharmDs have to go back schools to do PA or DDS or others...
 
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Some BS Biology majors did not have undergraduate experience nor a high GPA. They cannot get accepted to DO, MD, DDS, DMD, PhD, so they are stuck making $13 as a lab technician. They enter pharmacy school with the false hopes that they can make $100k+.
 
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Maybe I am just a blinded Pre-Pharm kid but if the job market is trash why does the Bureau of Labor Statistics say otherwise? Oh and anyone that starts a convo off by saying "Not trying to be a troll..." is doing just that.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/pharmacists.htm

I tried this link and it doesn't seem to support your point at all...I mean pharmacy job growth is worse than law now. I remember when I picked pharmacy it was around 28%, and probably higher before that. Is BLS saying 25% of that job growth happened in last 8 years, that fast? Or BLS had no clue and are playing catchup with reality (given BLS is at least a year behind on their data)

So do prepharmers have any other sources to cite and stand on to justify going to a crap-for profit, decreasing enrollment, recently opened, poor quality pharmacy school w/incredible student debt? Used to be US News, then BLS, anything prepharmers got left?

A lot of students say passion is all you need. When I hear that, I want to facepalm myself! Passion doesn't create jobs. CVS/Wag-aid won't open new stores or lay off (or keep) solid pharmacists for a new, inexperienced, grad just because of passion. They won't pay an extra 5-6 fig salary just cause you love pharmacy. Same with hospitals, companies. Forces of economics, supply/demand, job market, openings vs graduates determine job markets/openings, not passion.

Passion can make you a better worker, maybe more competitive (though I've seen people not passionate as more capable and employable than those self-defined as passionate) but it doesn't change economic reality, wages, or career longevity and age discrimination. Passion won't stop



from taking away jobs or eliminating the profession. Anyone can have or feign enthusiasm needed for a job but a lot are professional and competent enough to get it, whether faking it or not.

Passion doesn't stop CVS from laying off thousands of overnighters, buying Target and ruining their lives, WAG/RAD merging and laying off thousands, mail order/PBMs destroying retail/independents, ExpressScripts laying off, Walmart now closing and laying off, pharm industry merging and laying off (2013-14 and more) or alter the inevitable fate of pharmacy and supply and demand (900 new job openings/year, 14,000 graduates/year, some retirement turnover but not enough, especially when many dumb old-timer pharmacists forgot to save for retirement, spend too much, no self-control, gamble on stock, and after 40 years still hanging on paycheck to paycheck, idiots!). And while people are stuck up on jobs, no one even thinks career longevity (20-30 year careers aren't around anymore...in many fields not just pharmacy) so best to pick the cheapest option, and least amount of student loans.

Fix your personal finances, be frugal, save for when your career becomes nonexistent and you can switch careers, and it'll go a long way. SAVE for retirement, even during college if you can! Set up an IRA, reduce your debt, no starbucks, chipotle, amazon **** you don't need, garbage that doesn't actually make you happy, etc.

If you're competitive, smart, and got into an actual pharmacy school, you might make it. There are some prepharmers and pharmacy students that actually are smart, understand completely the situation, minimized debt, got scholarships, and are professional (older people bashing younger just seems to be a natural birthright older people have even in 1800s when the idea of public school was thought to ruin young people). But if you're some 2.1 GPA at a community college, no pharmacy work experience, low PCAT, history of drug use, unprofessional like crazy hair, nose/tongue piercing, makeup to interview (as described by other prepharmers, not me) then you're gonna get shafted unless you change big time.

For all the doom and gloom threads, students do seem to accept that they will be rewarded less for more work even if they're more competitive. No one is expecting sign-on bonuses, or dream jobs in ideal locations, salary adjusting for inflation (though few jobs do) or career longevity much anymore even among the students. And they know there's no guaranteed anything. The smart ones that did their research and still choose pharmacy know what's up. I feel bad for the ones that aren't prepared to fight and the lower quality students being admitted because enrollment is dropping. They are being preyed on by schools and it's tragic to see their future thrown away cause of predatory student loans, naive kids and parents, and generally being unqualified to begin w/. Schools will probably close later in the future (good). I'm optimistic for some students who are good, but pessimistic on the majority who are just being fleeced and deceived by marketing and ignore actual pharmacists.
 
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Some BS Biology majors did not have undergraduate experience nor a high GPA. They cannot get accepted to DO, MD, DDS, DMD, PhD, so they are stuck making $13 as a lab technician. They enter pharmacy school with the false hopes that they can make $100k+.
....then they graduate and get stuck with a crapload of loan debt and unemployed....then going back to school to avoid loan payment...the circle starts all over again.
 
With today's admission standards, students who merely "pass" prerequisites with a C average can get into pharmacy school, whereas to get into med, dental, and pharmacy prior to 2010, you have to earn mostly A's. We are health professionals with doctorates; our level of responsibility is a lot more than being a lab tech with a degree in biology. Mistakes can result in patients getting harmed and/or our licenses sanctioned.

While pharmacy isn't the worst field out there yet, it still has room to get much worse as new schools continue to open each year and mergers result in some pharmacists becoming redundant. There are other fields that pay decently, have job security as good as pharmacy if not better, do not require you to move to BFE, and do not require you to risk $200k+ loans and 4 years to end up stuck in retail, underemployed, or unemployed.
During my interview, there are still plenty of highly competitive applicant who held master degree in public health, chemistry as well as other field.
 
That is correct. Not only are pharmacies consolidating/closing due partly due to low PBM reimbursements, but pharmacy schools are popping up left and right. With the oversupply of new grads, any available openings will be flooded with applications.

In my opinion, finance, business, engineering, and computer programming are safer routes as of now because they do not require you to take out $200k+ student loans yet still have similar job security and take-home pay.
Actually these fields probably have much BETTER job security than pharmacy.
 
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During my interview, there are still plenty of highly competitive applicant who held master degree in public health, chemistry as well as other field.
Sadly they must be buying the lies the pharmacy schools are selling.
 
A lot of students say passion is all you need. When I hear that, I want to facepalm myself! Passion doesn't create jobs.

Amazing how prepharmers continue to ignore the state of pharmacy.
with a 3% job outlook for the next 10 years, pharmacy is literally in the same state as librarians and cashiers!
 
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