Why do people still consider going to pharmacy schools when they already know there won't be a job?

[TheFactionless]

So much anger here. Sheesh!

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[Humble Sloth]

So much anger here. Sheesh!

I am in pharmacy school because I know personally two owners (extended family) of independent pharmacies that have guaranteed me a job. If i did not have this connection I would be going to school for PA/MD/DMD or optometrist.

 

[Humble Sloth]

I agree that comp. science is in high demand and yeah not so much debt. But you need to realize that you need to be good programmer to get hired even at smallest company. If you are looking for top gig, you better be coming out of top 10 comp. science school. For example , my bf graduated from MIT so he had all top companies calling him left and right. Yes he started off pretty well and doing great, he doesn't have any debt thanks to his parents. So its working out for him. Where as i have friend who graduated from okay school , had hard time finding job for more than 9 months , is working for alright company. Probably making 60 K..So just depends who you are and let me tell you programming is hardddd..

And this doesn't mean i don't agree with your pharmacy profession view, you are so right about it. It is going down hill...

As a part time programmer I agree with this. Programming is WAY harder than pharmacy and requires a significantly higher IQ to do well in given the math and logic. Also it is extremely transparent if you are a good coder or not due to anyone being able to easily view your source code. Programming may be in a bubble right now ready for collapse and programmers in India and china can write source code and upload it to a sever anywhere so I think these jobs can be easily outsourced. The top 10% of programmers all make more than pharmacists but the bottom 50% make a lot less than pharmacists.

 

[Humble Sloth]

Maybe I am just a blinded Pre-Pharm kid but if the job market is trash why does the Bureau of Labor Statistics say otherwise? Oh and anyone that starts a convo off by saying "Not trying to be a troll..." is doing just that.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/pharmacists.htm

have you seen the updated outlook? check the link again



"3% (Slower than average)"

 

[jokersmiles]

for those that are confused about what is meant by the 3%....

what that 3% outlook essentially means is that there will be around 140,000 pharmacists competing for 9,000 jobs over the next 10 years

 

[mjmjoa]

for those that are confused about what is meant by the 3%....

what that 3% outlook essentially means is that there will be around 140,000 pharmacists competing for 9,000 jobs over the next 10 years

good thing i'm competitive

 

[RphCat]

Wow this thread is still going! Who cares if someone wants to do something "stupid" and go to pharmacy school. It's their life, don't shatter their dreams. Just go live yours.

 

[Pharmerjoe77]

Remember kids, ''if you go into pharmacy you're going to have a bad time''

 

[jokersmiles]

Wow this thread is still going! Who cares if someone wants to do something "stupid" and go to pharmacy school. It's their life, don't shatter their dreams. Just go live yours.

These posts are mainly targeted at applicants who have the ability to explore other options.
There are competitive students out there who have 3.6+ GPAs from good universities who go into pharmacy school without knowing what they're getting into
a lot of these posts save them from going this route.
As for the students with horrible GPAs, well they don't have much choice other than pharmacy so their "dreams" remain intact.
And if you consider yourself to be competitive even with a bad academic history, well don't say you weren't warned.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Wow this thread is still going! Who cares if someone wants to do something "stupid" and go to pharmacy school. It's their life, don't shatter their dreams. Just go live yours.

Your thinking is shortsighted. We live in a society where our actions affect other real people. Even the suffering of a stranger can have a real effect on you. Enough "stupid" actions (which pharmacy seems to have turned into a magnet for) can completely ruin a good thing. It was stupid choices like doubling schools for profit that are causing current pharmacists to suffer. It was stupid choices (and thinking) that drove applicants to support these kinds of schools and action which also contributed to the current state of pharmacy. I can go on with this but I think you get the point. I think we should be in agreement of one thing: It would be truly stupid for people interested in pharmacy to not properly do research and make an informed decision.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Some BS Biology majors did not have undergraduate experience nor a high GPA. They cannot get accepted to DO, MD, DDS, DMD, PhD, so they are stuck making $13 as a lab technician. They enter pharmacy school with the false hopes that they can make $100k+.

Amen

 

[swpharmsarah]

Some may have a job lined up for them already and are just lacking the degree...

 

[PharmtoCS]

Wow this thread is still going! Who cares if someone wants to do something "stupid" and go to pharmacy school. It's their life, don't shatter their dreams. Just go live yours.

Better to have the dreams shattered now than 4 years later with $200k+ student loans.

 

[Humble Sloth]

Better to have the dreams shattered now than 4 years later with $200k+ student loans.

With income based repayment you can work at walmart for 7.25 USD/hour and be loan free before you die.

It's not the end of the world. If someone wanted to have a solid career with good earning potential they would have studied harder and got into optometry/dental/MD/PA school.

 

[musicplease]

Not trying to be a troll...but I am very curious how people think about this. Please explain why you go to pharmacy school, pre-pharmers. Thank you.

I was actually prepharm in the beginning of undergrad and realized after volunteering that I didn't like a pharmacist's lifestyle
but before I volunteered I wanted to do pharmacy because I thought I could be a doctor without the heavy workload

 

[GypsyHummus]

I was actually prepharm in the beginning of undergrad and realized after volunteering that I didn't like a pharmacist's lifestyle
but before I volunteered I wanted to do pharmacy because I thought I could be a doctor without the heavy workload

Is that when you realized your passion for dentistry?

 

[musicplease]

 

[Confused321]

how often are rude patients a problem for pharmacists?
I keep reading on here that patients are always treating pharmacists badly but is this common (happens everyday/every week) or rare?

 

[Amicable Angora]

how often are rude patients a problem for pharmacists?
I keep reading on here that patients are always treating pharmacists badly but is this common (happens everyday/every week) or rare?

Daily. And often more than once a day.

 

[PharmtoCS]

how often are rude patients a problem for pharmacists?
I keep reading on here that patients are always treating pharmacists badly but is this common (happens everyday/every week) or rare?

More than once a day is correct. Probably more than 10 times on a very bad day fraught with understaffing and various issues.

 

[Gombrich12]

how often are rude patients a problem for pharmacists?
I keep reading on here that patients are always treating pharmacists badly but is this common (happens everyday/every week) or rare?

It depends on the pharmacist and how they handle patients. I can recall being yelled at once by a customer and once by a doctor. It's very rare for me, but I know other pharmacists who are getting into it with patients every other week.

 

[UGAZ]

It depends on the pharmacist and how they handle patients. I can recall being yelled at once by a customer and once by a doctor. It's very rare for me, but I know other pharmacists who are getting into it with patients every other week.

I disagree on this. You can be the nicest person on earth and still get yelled at if your patient is demanding/rude. No matter what you say, they want it their ways . I used to be an intern for Walgreens and worked with this nicest female pharmacist and I literally saw her crying at work when a customer threw a F** bomb word on her because of the stupid high copay (not the pharmacist's fault !!!!). It was just amazing.

 

[musicplease]

how often are rude patients a problem for pharmacists?
I keep reading on here that patients are always treating pharmacists badly but is this common (happens everyday/every week) or rare?

patients will yell and get angry at you for no real reason at the pharmacy. Nobody likes waiting in long lines and the pharmacy always has long lines.
You will find yourself being criticized for something that you have no control over, and you can't argue back, you just have to take it.

I guarantee that for the first few weeks as a pharmacist you will be more compassionate, then as you realize how ungrateful
people are you will slowly but surely stop going the extra mile to help them out.

 

[PharmtoCS]

patients will yell and get angry at you for no real reason at the pharmacy. Nobody likes waiting in long lines and the pharmacy always has long lines.
You will find yourself being criticized for something that you have no control over, and you can't argue back, you just have to take it.

I guarantee that for the first few weeks as a pharmacist you will be more compassionate, then as you realize how ungrateful
people are you will slowly but surely stop going the extra mile to help them out.

This is one of the reasons why I tell people to major in computer science instead of pharmacy where 60-70% of the jobs are in retail. The treatment you get at software companies is a 180 from chain retail, not to mention that you save yourself $200k+ in loans.

 

[GypsyHummus]

This is one of the reasons why I tell people to major in computer science instead of pharmacy where 60-70% of the jobs are in retail. The treatment you get at software companies is a 180 from chain retail, not to mention that you save yourself $200k+ in loans.

But computer science jobs usually don't garuntee 120k/year. Not saying that people in that field can't get there after 10+ years, but once u get a job in pharmacy (if u can even get a job in this economy anymore), it is virtually a 120k year job. Take home is like 90k, which is pretty good as far as jobs go.

 

[musicplease]

But computer science jobs usually don't garuntee 120k/year. Not saying that people in that field can't get there after 10+ years, but once u get a job in pharmacy (if u can even get a job in this economy anymore), it is virtually a 120k year job. Take home is like 90k, which is pretty good as far as jobs go.

you see the difference here is that unlike pharmacy...... computer science is actually interesting and applicable to wide range of fields.

 

[GypsyHummus]

you see the difference here is that unlike pharmacy...... computer science is actually interesting and applicable to wide range of fields.

110k vs 70k starting seems like a large enough difference to where I understand the logic behind going to pharm school vs going into IT. Endorse this course of behavior, no, but I understand the thinking behind it. Now, in the long run yeah, they eventually come closer together. A supervision position in IT pays around 105k. Still 15k less.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Software engineer positions typically do not require you take out an additional $200k+ in loans and sacrifice an additional 4 years in school when you could have been working. Your student loan payments will drop your take-home pay to $45-60k easily. Assuming that you have no debt in comparison to your pharmacy school loan differential, you would only need to earn about $65-90k to take home that much.

The job market for software engineers is far better. Twitter even has to pay retention bonuses of $50-200k to get employees to stay. Try asking for that at most chain retail stores, and they'll make sure that the door doesn't hit you on the way out.

 

[Humble Sloth]

This is one of the reasons why I tell people to major in computer science instead of pharmacy where 60-70% of the jobs are in retail. The treatment you get at software companies is a 180 from chain retail, not to mention that you save yourself $200k+ in loans.

Software engineer positions typically do not require you take out an additional $200k+ in loans and sacrifice an additional 4 years in school when you could have been working. Your student loan payments will drop your take-home pay to $45-60k easily. Assuming that you have no debt in comparison to your pharmacy school loan differential, you would only need to earn about $65-90k to take home that much.

The job market for software engineers is far better. Twitter even has to pay retention bonuses of $50-200k to get employees to stay. Try asking for that at most chain retail stores, and they'll make sure that the door doesn't hit you on the way out.

As some one coming from CS/engineering background what you guys are missing is computer science takes an EXTREMELY HIGH IQ much higher than pharmD, PA, RN or even MD/DO. The work is extremely transparent as anyone can review your source code including your resource manager. pharmacy is good for low to average IQ individuals that want to make a lot of money.

ploymorphism, object oriented programming, methods, classes, memory leakage, recursion, mysql injection attacks are are SIGNIFICANTLY more COMPLEX and harder to understand that memorizing mechanisms of pharmaceuticals. If you have a high IQ go for CS otherwise stick with pharmD

 

[y0ssarian87]

As some one coming from CS/engineering background what you guys are missing is computer science takes an EXTREMELY HIGH IQ much high than pharmD, PA, RN or even MD/DO. The work is extremely transparent as anyone can review your source code including your resource manager. pharmacy is good for low to average IQ individuals that want to make a lot of money.

ploymorphism, object oriented programming, methods, classes, memory leakage, recursion, mysql injection attacks are are SIGNIFICANTLY more COMPLEX and harder to understand that memorizing mechanisms of pharmaceuticals. If you have a high IQ go for CS otherwise stick with pharmD

Disagree completely. Computer science takes basic logic, discipline, and practice, not a certain IQ. And that's to be good at the job, not get into that business. Everything you mentioned (except SQL injection attacks) is taught in a basic CS 101/OOP class for a single semester. (And always sanitize the data before running your SQL queries. Not a difficult concept. Technical, but not difficult.)

Now, do I believe that pharmacy school curricula and licensing requirements allow students to become practicing pharmacists despite bare minimum competency (and oftentimes even less)? Yes, but that's a failing of our profession. Though, to pretend that everyone in CS is a true expert with a high IQ is laughable. I can't tell you how many times I've seen code that is a total wreck -- illogical, inefficient, lack of documentation, bad work-arounds, completely lacking in exception handling, etc. The transparency you mentioned doesn't necessarily prevent people from implementing bad work. I will say that the elegance that you see from skilled individuals in CS is something you don't see often in pharmacy.

Simply, they're different careers, and they rely on different skill sets.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[Humble Sloth]

Disagree completely. Computer science takes basic logic, discipline, and practice, not a certain IQ. And that's to be good at the job, not get into that business. Everything you mentioned (except SQL injection attacks) is taught in a basic CS 101/OOP class for a single semester. (And always sanitize the data before running your SQL queries. Not a difficult concept. Technical, but not difficult.)

Now, do I believe that pharmacy school curricula and licensing requirements allow students to become practicing pharmacists despite bare minimum competency (and oftentimes even less)? Yes, but that's a failing of our profession. Though, to pretend that everyone in CS is a true expert with a high IQ is laughable. I can't tell you how many times I've seen code that is a total wreck -- illogical, inefficient, lack of documentation, bad work-arounds, completely lacking in exception handling, etc. The transparency you mentioned doesn't necessarily prevent people from implementing bad work. I will say that the elegance that you see from skilled individuals in CS is something you don't see often in pharmacy.

Simply, they're different careers, and they rely on different skill sets.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

I would say only the top 20% of coders make the real money in CS where in pharmacy the salary distribution is much more uniform.

Disagree completely. Computer science takes basic logic, discipline, and practice, not a certain IQ. And that's to be good at the job, not get into that business. Everything you mentioned (except SQL injection attacks) is taught in a basic CS 101/OOP class for a single semester. (And always sanitize the data before running your SQL queries. Not a difficult concept. Technical, but not difficult.)

Now, do I believe that pharmacy school curricula and licensing requirements allow students to become practicing pharmacists despite bare minimum competency (and oftentimes even less)? Yes, but that's a failing of our profession. Though, to pretend that everyone in CS is a true expert with a high IQ is laughable. I can't tell you how many times I've seen code that is a total wreck -- illogical, inefficient, lack of documentation, bad work-arounds, completely lacking in exception handling, etc. The transparency you mentioned doesn't necessarily prevent people from implementing bad work. I will say that the elegance that you see from skilled individuals in CS is something you don't see often in pharmacy.

Simply, they're different careers, and they rely on different skill sets.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

I would say the transparency in CS work skills prevents inadequate or even average programmers from being hired at firms that offer 100k+ salaries. The transparency for pharmacist work skills is opaque and therefore a lot lower IQ individuals can sneak into the 100k+ jobs.

 

[jokersmiles]

how often are rude patients a problem for pharmacists?
I keep reading on here that patients are always treating pharmacists badly but is this common (happens everyday/every week) or rare?

Pharmacists are treated with disrespect on a weekly basis, this goes for both retail and clinical pharmacy.

 

[oogens]

My dad was a doctor and people were rude to him. patients, other doctors, hospital admins, insurance companies and politicians

Other people were very nice

My best friend works for a database management startup, and he gets both the ups and downs

If you want to make money, rude people are going to happen. I don't know if there's any job where you automatically get respect, because that's now how this country has ever worked for anyone. Rude people happen, get over it.

 

[musicplease]

110k vs 70k starting seems like a large enough difference to where I understand the logic behind going to pharm school vs going into IT. Endorse this course of behavior, no, but I understand the thinking behind it. Now, in the long run yeah, they eventually come closer together. A supervision position in IT pays around 105k. Still 15k less.

110K before taking into account tax and loan repayment, not to mention 4 years of lost earning potential if one would have gone straight into computer science.

 

[Humble Sloth]

My dad was a doctor and people were rude to him. patients, other doctors, hospital admins, insurance companies and politicians

Other people were very nice

My best friend works for a database management startup, and he gets both the ups and downs

If you want to make money, rude people are going to happen. I don't know if there's any job where you automatically get respect, because that's now how this country has ever worked for anyone. Rude people happen, get over it.

Exactly. I don't think anyone can earn over 100k a year and not deal with headaches. Financial compensation is directly correlated with stress.

 

[GypsyHummus]

110K before taking into account tax and loan repayment, not to mention 4 years of lost earning potential if one would have gone straight into computer science.

Well, lets say Im a pharmacist 5 years out of school making round 130K. gott pay round 35% in taxes )federal, state, county, etc.) Take home is round 85K. Lets say I live in a somewhat rural area, and cost of living is like 400/month. I live conservatively, about 15K/year. That still gives me 70K to pay off my debts.

 

[TheBlaah]

Lets say I live in a somewhat rural area, and cost of living is like 400/month. I live conservatively, about 15K/year.

Wow. You gotta tell me where this fantastical place is. So a budget of 15k/yr is about $9 for food a day with a room for $900/mo. Literally room for nothing else. And a rural place that can afford 130k a year? Good luck.

I live in a "somewhat" rural area in relatively low housing rates compared to most states. A mobile home for rent costs at least $500/mo here. So yes, if you're willing to live in a trailer park, then you could make the budget of 15k/yr including gas, utilities, and other necessities.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Wow. You gotta tell me where this fantastical place is. So a budget of 15k/yr is about $9 for food a day with a room for $900/mo. Literally room for nothing else. And a rural place that can afford 130k a year? Good luck.

I live in a "somewhat" rural area in relatively low housing rates compared to most states. A mobile home for rent costs at least $500/mo here. So yes, if you're willing to live in a trailer park, then you could make the budget of 15k/yr including gas, utilities, and other necessities.

Tiny house.

 

[TheBlaah]

Tiny house.

So we're talking about <500 sq ft?

 

[GypsyHummus]

Wow. You gotta tell me where this fantastical place is. So a budget of 15k/yr is about $9 for food a day with a room for $900/mo. Literally room for nothing else. And a rural place that can afford 130k a year? Good luck.

I live in a "somewhat" rural area in relatively low housing rates compared to most states. A mobile home for rent costs at least $500/mo here. So yes, if you're willing to live in a trailer park, then you could make the budget of 15k/yr including gas, utilities, and other necessities.

And also, if you are paying 900/month and you don't live in California or New york, then you are doing it wrong. There are plenty of great places in my area (non shady, safe neighborhood ) for 500-600/month. Take a dip in quality, and you can find places for 400/month.

 

[GypsyHummus]

So we're talking about <500 sq ft?

Tiny house was kind of a tough in cheek comment, but as I look through these houses, it really looks like a viable option moving forward. If you are a single person, you really don't need a lot to be happy. I drive a 10 year old car that was 7K when I bought it. Could have easily gotten a loan for a 23K car, but that would have been a bad investment.

Cell phone plan killing yah? Do prepaid. Cable bill high? Cut the cable and go watch netflix on the prepaid phone 30/month.

But 4 whole years is a long time. Tough buddy (not you in particular), you signed up for this investment, follow through. Look at it from an investment. If I had to take out a 200K loan for a business when that business has an excellent track record of making 110-130K/year, well, that sounds like a good investment.

Budget, pay for things in cash, don't use debt (besides your pharmacy student loans) as a way of life, and you can do it.

 

[TheBlaah]

Well, to each his own. While debt has never been a concern for me, but I can imagine having to commit 4 of your prime years to that way of life to eliminate your debt isn't for everyone. I was mostly focused on how you're going to find a 130k/yr and $500/mo housing in a rural area. It's possible, but I'd find it unlikely.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Well, to each his own. While debt has never been a concern for me, but I can imagine having to commit 4 of your prime years to that way of life to eliminate your debt isn't for everyone. I was mostly focused on how you're going to find a 130k/yr and $500/mo housing in a rural area. It's possible, but I'd find it unlikely.

Well, what do you consider rural?

I'm looking at places in somewhat rural/ suburb Iowa, and see salaries starting at 110k/year. Looking at housing prices in the smaller cities and seeing pretty nice apartments at around 500-550/month

 

[TheBlaah]

Well, what do you consider rural?
I'm looking at places in somewhat rural/ suburb Iowa, and see salaries starting at 110k/year. Looking at housing prices in the smaller cities and seeing pretty nice apartments at around 500-550/month

My general rule of thumb is more than 2 hours from any major metropolitan city, and a population density between 500-1500/sq mile. The city I live in is 1600/sq mile, but more than 40% of the population lives on the military base so I don't personally count them fully.

 

[Humble Sloth]

Wow. You gotta tell me where this fantastical place is. So a budget of 15k/yr is about $9 for food a day with a room for $900/mo. Literally room for nothing else. And a rural place that can afford 130k a year? Good luck.

I live in a "somewhat" rural area in relatively low housing rates compared to most states. A mobile home for rent costs at least $500/mo here. So yes, if you're willing to live in a trailer park, then you could make the budget of 15k/yr including gas, utilities, and other necessities.

A trailer park is actually a luxury. I have a minivan I can live in for 0 rent. Just car insurance and gas. So about 60 bucks a month which is still kinda pricey but I mean i have lived in a tent under a underpass and it just gets too cold and unsafe.

 

[musicplease]

Well, lets say Im a pharmacist 5 years out of school making round 130K. gott pay round 35% in taxes )federal, state, county, etc.) Take home is round 85K. Lets say I live in a somewhat rural area, and cost of living is like 400/month. I live conservatively, about 15K/year. That still gives me 70K to pay off my debts.

If living like that all alone for half a decade is how you plan on enjoying your life then I guess that can work.

 

[GypsyHummus]

If living like that all alone for half a decade is how you plan on enjoying your life then I guess that can work.

Well, it's either that, marry rich, win the lottery, or complain about student loan debt on the Internet

 

[313heros]

I disagree on this. You can be the nicest person on earth and still get yelled at if your patient is demanding/rude. No matter what you say, they want it their ways . I used to be an intern for Walgreens and worked with this nicest female pharmacist and I literally saw her crying at work when a customer threw a F** bomb word on her because of the stupid high copay (not the pharmacist's fault !!!!). It was just amazing.

That's why you have to be prepared to have a thick skin in retail, because you can have the best customer service and work 100% correctly and be cussed out or yelled at anyway, it's the nature of retail and the false notion of thinking you can please everyone. We need to realize humans are humans and fickle minds exist. Those who have worked retail, know what I'm talking about.

 

[Confused321]

That's why you have to be prepared to have a thick skin in retail, because you can have the best customer service and work 100% correctly and be cussed out or yelled at anyway, it's the nature of retail and the false notion of thinking you can please everyone. We need to realize humans are humans and fickle minds exist. Those who have worked retail, know what I'm talking about.

do clinical pharmacists also have to deal with similar disrespect from patients? what about from physicians and nurses? are they treated well in the hospital setting?

 

[lavenderhearts]

I'm so tired of posts like this and especially from people who don't want to be a pharmacist (like medical and dental students). The occupational outlook handbook says that pharmacist outlook is relative slow like 2% or 4% for people who like to throw that around. Who cares if pre-pharmacy students still want to pursue pharmacy and be $200k in debt that is there problem not yours for those who are pharmacists and pharmacy students and if pharmacy is so bad why don't you do something instead of pharmacist or going to pharmacy school and getting in all of that debt? It is our decision to deal with the consequences of being pharmacists. I know the statistics and I look at it all the time and I still want to be a pharmacist