Why do so few psychologists get married?

[elite1]

My colleagues and I were talking today about how few female psychologists and psychiatrists get married, especially compared to the base rate of marriage in the average female population. Has anybody else noticed that females in these two professions get married less often than the typical female?

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[EquestriAnn]

To each other or just in general? I didn't know that was true... ?

 

[Anon15]

Most female psychologist I know are married...

 

[Ollie123]

In general the higher up the professional ladder you move, the less likely women are to be married. I think there's a variety of reasons why, most of which boil down to society being stupid.

I'm not positive, I think its true for men as well, its just MUCH more drastic for women.

That being said, I'm basing this off what the research says since I actually haven't noticed that trend - in fact I believe all female psychologists I know are married.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

In general the higher up the professional ladder you move, the less likely women are to be married. I think there's a variety of reasons why, most of which boil down to society being stupid.

I'm not positive, I think its true for men as well, its just MUCH more drastic for women.

That being said, I'm basing this off what the research says since I actually haven't noticed that trend - in fact I believe all female psychologists I know are married.

I would love....LOVE to use that as a conclusion in some of my research. Factor X, Factor Y, and Society Being Stupid have shown to be a negative influence on Whatever I'm Researching.

 

[Ollie123]

I would love....LOVE to use that as a conclusion in some of my research. Factor X, Factor Y, and Society Being Stupid have shown to be a negative influence on Whatever I'm Researching.

Feel free

Between you and Riley, I'm racking up the citations on this board. I won't even need to publish, I can just post here!

Its so true though...society IS stupid and its a factor in SO much of what we're doing.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Its so true though...society IS stupid and its a factor in SO much of what we're doing.

Haha, this makes you my new favourite forum member.

 

[erg923]

I'm not married (yet), but everyone in my program say Laura an I act like we are....I wonder what this means.....

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'm not married (yet), but everyone in my program say Laura an I act like we are....I wonder what this means.....

*tick tock* *tick tock* *tick tock*

I'm just sayin'.....

 

[KillerDiller]

I read a statistic somewhere (wouldn't know where to begin to find it again) that for every point increase above 115 in IQ for men, their chances of marriage go up around 2%. For every point increase in women, their chances of being married go down 16%. So, yes, society is stupid.

I don't think it's more true in psychology than in other disciplines, however. Most of the female professors in my department are married, and quite a few of us grad students are married, engaged, or in a committed long-term relationship.

 

[MaddieMay]

I can't find a citation, but does anyone recall that study that claimed married men were happier than married women?

 

[EquestriAnn]

I can't find a citation, but does anyone recall that study that claimed married men were happier than married women?

I've heard of the ones that say that men are more depressed after divorce...?

 

[PsychappA]

I can't find a citation, but does anyone recall that study that claimed married men were happier than married women?

I remember learning that married men live longer or have better health than single men, but that the reverse was true for women.

 

[PinkSoil]

I have actually noticed the opposite. In my school, I have noticed that people going into the Psy.D. program tend to get married younger than the norm. Myself included, I have seen quite a few of my peers get married younger than 25.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Marriage is for single quitters.

Some good marriage/divorce research has been done by James Bray out of Baylor College of Medicine (I stumbled across his work a few years ago at a seminar).

 

[eatsleeppsych]

..

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Hello eatsleeppsych!

What's the citation on that research, you've piqued my interest.

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

I can't find a citation, but does anyone recall that study that claimed married men were happier than married women?

I do remember that. I might have a reference somewhere....I'd have to dig around to find it.

 

[Cosmo75]

I think there's a variety of reasons why, most of which boil down to society being stupid.

You've got another citation from me

Most psychologists I know are either engaged or married. Even within my school, many students are engaged, married, and a few have kids (though they tend to be older).

Not to change the subject, but what about psychologists having kids? Though I'm getting married next month we have no inclination to pop out a few puppies later. My clock is digital.

 

[Thrak]

Not to change the subject, but what about psychologists having kids? Though I'm getting married next month we have no inclination to pop out a few puppies later. My clock is digital.

I am going into Social Psych... definitely no kids for me and my wife, I was "fixed" in 2001.

I haven't really noticed a trend toward intentional childlessness in the psych community as compared with others, but I think in general, more education correlates with fewer children, and "zero" is as few as you can get. When you factor in the tendency for women to marry "across" or "higher" when it comes to their spouse's career, and that many of the careers that parallel a psych doctorate tend to be intensive (other doctoral degrees, law, business management, etc), you may see more couples choosing not to have kids either because they actively don't want to become parents, or because neither wants to put their career on hold to do it.

 

[Psyched77]

I can't find a citation, but does anyone recall that study that claimed married men were happier than married women?

I don't remember the study specifically (investigators, etc.), but that it was included in my Psychology of Women textbook by Matlin.

 

[Psyched77]

Not to change the subject, but what about psychologists having kids?

I think that for marriage &/or kids, the numbers of those who don't do one or both is higher than in the general population. However, I don't think it's necessarily higher than other groups when controlling for education level, etc.

Personally, I have 2 kids...one biological (had at 20) & one adopted (adopted from foster care when she was 8 & I was 27). I had my 1st one before I ever considered going to college, & I adopted my 2nd one when I was in school, but not yet planning to attend grad school. Now though? I'm absolutely, 100% done.

 

[JR in SB]

Marriage is for single quitters.

Hahaha....Unfortunately this is true in many cases. I wonder why those marriages don't work????

 

[RayneeDeigh]

I can tell you why women in Psychology don't get married with a recent anecdote from my own life (VERY scientific, I know )

Man in an electronics store who has been talking to me for an hour and seems like he's about to ask me out says: So, you said you're a student, what kind of student?
I say: I'm getting my PhD in Clinical Psychology
Man says nothing else, just turns around and walks away after an hour of conversation.

That, my friends, is why people are ******ed. The letters "Ph.D." apparently spell out "leper"

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I can tell you why women in Psychology don't get married with a recent anecdote from my own life (VERY scientific, I know )

Man in an electronics store who has been talking to me for an hour and seems like he's about to ask me out says: So, you said you're a student, what kind of student?
I say: I'm getting my PhD in Clinical Psychology
Man says nothing else, just turns around and walks away after an hour of conversation.

That, my friends, is why people are ******ed. The letters "Ph.D." apparently spell out "leper"

It could also mean "People hiding Degree"....because once they find out what you do, they scatter!!

I typically mention doing some research and something else I'm involved in related to the field, but not what I'm studying....as that tends to open up the, "When I was 12....." flood gates.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

It could also mean "People hiding Degree"....because once they find out what you do, they scatter!!

I typically mention doing some research and something else I'm involved in related to the field, but not what I'm studying....as that tends to open up the, "When I was 12....." flood gates.

From now on I'm sticking with "stewardess"

 

[RileyG]

I can tell you why women in Psychology don't get married with a recent anecdote from my own life (VERY scientific, I know )

Man in an electronics store who has been talking to me for an hour and seems like he's about to ask me out says: So, you said you're a student, what kind of student?
I say: I'm getting my PhD in Clinical Psychology
Man says nothing else, just turns around and walks away after an hour of conversation.

That, my friends, is why people are ******ed. The letters "Ph.D." apparently spell out "leper"

maybe it was the 'Clinical Psychology' and not the 'PhD' part that scared him off. When I mention psychology, people tend to scatter pretty quickly

 

[erg923]

I always find psych to be somewhat of a "chick magnet" for me........when I was single that is. They think I'm a listener and stuff I guess...haha

 

[Psyched77]

maybe it was the 'Clinical Psychology' and not the 'PhD' part that scared him off. When I mention psychology, people tend to scatter pretty quickly

Same here...not in dating situations (I'm married), but in general situations. And at home, it's even gotten to where if I ask one of my kids' friends a question, my kids shout, "DON'T ANSWER HER. SHE'S SHRINKING YOU." Pfft.

 

[Cosmo75]

Same here...not in dating situations (I'm married), but in general situations. And at home, it's even gotten to where if I ask one of my kids' friends a question, my kids shout, "DON'T ANSWER HER. SHE'S SHRINKING YOU." Pfft.

My response to people who say things along those lines to me is "sorry you're not that interesting" I usually follow that up with "and that's a good thing."

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

My response to people who say things along those lines to me is "sorry you're not that interesting" I usually follow that up with "and that's a good thing."

I tend to tell people that accountants avoid bringing work home with them, and I try to do the same.

 

[kyril]

I can tell you why women in Psychology don't get married with a recent anecdote from my own life (VERY scientific, I know )

Man in an electronics store who has been talking to me for an hour and seems like he's about to ask me out says: So, you said you're a student, what kind of student?
I say: I'm getting my PhD in Clinical Psychology
Man says nothing else, just turns around and walks away after an hour of conversation.

That, my friends, is why people are ******ed. The letters "Ph.D." apparently spell out "leper"

lots of men are also totally freaked out by a woman as smart/smarter (also, as funny/funnier, but i digress) than them, and the "getting my PhD" part may have tipped him off, regardless of what subject it is in.

i had a friend who used to say "i'm a lion tamer"!

 

[Psyched77]

My response to people who say things along those lines to me is "sorry you're not that interesting" I usually follow that up with "and that's a good thing."

Good one! I'll have to borrow it!

 

[gddr]

I can't find a citation, but does anyone recall that study that claimed married men were happier than married women?

I DO remember reading that MULTIPLE studies across demographics confirmed that married men were happier and healthier than married women. As I remember, married men were first, then single women, then single men, and then married women. I also remember reading that this was because married women, even in this age of "equality" STILL do more of the household work and have more responsibility for childcare.

Speaking to the original question: I am an UNmarried woman with a Ph.D., close to being a licensed psychologist, living with my "boyfriend" for almost 8 years, with a 5 month old son.

I think four main things contribute to why woman with Ph.D.s in psychology are not as likely to marry: 1) We don't "need" to be married in order to pay the bills or gain an identity/social role, we find self-worth, purpose, and income through our careers, 2) many men are threatened by women that are more intelligent, more educated, and/or more successful, and avoid them as partners, 3) woman that care about such things as being married would also be expected to want to fulfill the norm that they marry at, or above, their social status... which gets harder the more you achieve, so the pool of potential partners shrinks, and 4) women, like myself, with high student loan debt, find that, if they marry, their spouses' income is combined with theirs and they would not be able to afford their income contingent student loan payments!!! Sad, but true!

I would be interested to see a study reporting the rates of women with Ph.D.s in psychology that are in "long term, live-in, committed relationships" vs. "married". We may not be getting married, but that doesn't mean we have not joined with another, committed to another, started a family, and such. It just means that we haven't gone through the legal hoop!

In my case... I joined with my guy based on shared interests, not shared degrees, and, though we would like to marry, it is not possible mainly for financial reasons. Yet, we are still committed to each other and raising a family together. Is THAT circumstance factored into these studies?

 

[Ollie123]

Given the number of people mentioning guys not wanting to date smart women, I feel like I need to start playing matchmaker, as much as I hate that role.

The biggest complaint most of my guy friends have is that most of the intelligent ones are already taken and they refuse to date *****s. I had the same problem in college before I met my current girlfriend. The vapid ones are just so plentiful that dating becomes a game of where's waldo for brains with beta waves.

 

[psy86]

In the interest of introducing some references to this conversation, here's a review on gender differences in marriage health benefits:

Kiecolt-Glaser, J.K. & Newton, T.L. (2001). Marriage and health: his and hers. Psych Bulletin, 127, 472-503.

The gist is that women tend to show greater negative health outcomes than men when the marital relationship is poor (see also Levenson et al, Psych and Aging 8, 301-313), which may be attributable to greater autonomic reactivity during stressful interactions in women.

 

[psy86]

Also, here's one demonstrating that higher intelligence is associated with a decrease in marriage odds in women and an increase in marriage odds in men:

Taylor et al. (2005). Childhood IQ and marriage by mid-life: the Scottish Mental Survey 1932 and the Midspan studies. Personality and Individual Differences, 38, 1621-1630.

Obviously, one wonders if the cohort of Scottish children in 1938 differs from the cohort of American children in 1975. Still, at least it's empirical, LOL.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I may start giving a small battery of assessments as a screener:

1. 16PF / MMPI-2
2. WAIS-III
3. TAT2 / Rorschach / Sentence Stems

I figure this will give me a basic idea of what I'm getting myself into.

 

[RileyG]

I may start giving a small battery of assessments as a screener:

1. 16PF / MMPI-2
2. WAIS-III
3. TAT2 / Rorschach / Sentence Stems

I figure this will give me a basic idea of what I'm getting myself into.

if they score too high on #1, you won't even need to proceed to 2 & 3. Perfect!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I would probably skip the WAIS-III all together as their responses to the projectives would give me more than enough information about their education level and abilities.

 

[Psyched77]

The biggest complaint most of my guy friends have is that most of the intelligent ones are already taken and they refuse to date *****s. I had the same problem in college before I met my current girlfriend. The vapid ones are just so plentiful that dating becomes a game of where's waldo for brains with beta waves.

That's interesting, since studies have shown that there is no statistically significant difference between the intelligence of women & men (general population). I'm sure there are variation among different subgroups, but overall, they're the same. I guess I say this tongue-in-cheek...in that if it's hard for men to find smart women, the data would suggest that it's just as hard for women to find smart men.

 

[Ollie123]

Oh I don't doubt that it is.

Sorry, hope my post wasn't interpreted as sexist - its just my guy friends that are having this problem right now, which is why I used the gender pronouns I did.

I meant it more as intelligence just having such a low base rate that its hard to find smart folks in general

 

[Psyched77]

Oh I don't doubt that it is.

Sorry, hope my post wasn't interpreted as sexist - its just my guy friends that are having this problem right now, which is why I used the gender pronouns I did.

I meant it more as intelligence just having such a low base rate that its hard to find smart folks in general

Definitely. I think this applies to friends as well. Not to sound rude, but I couldn't really be close friends with someone who I thought was stupid. Maybe that explains why I have such a small circle of friends! And don't get me started on my family & my in-laws!

 

[psy86]

Perhaps your male friends are having difficulty finding sufficiently intelligent partners for them because of the well-replicated sex difference in self-perceived intelligence:

Bennett, M. (1996). Men's and women's self-estimates of intelligence. The Journal of Social Psychology, 136, 411-412.

Men in that study estimated their own IQ's at 117, and women at 109-- pretty striking gap.

Just providing some more empirical food for thought (and teasing about your friends, though I do think the finding is interesting).

 

[Ollie123]

Hmm. That IS an interesting finding, although I looked up the article and its pretty god-awful from a methodology standpoint (honestly, how on earth do those things get published). Do you know if its been repeated looking at actual differences in perceived and real score to make sure it isn't just a sampling issue?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Hmm. That IS an interesting finding, although I looked up the article and its pretty god-awful from a methodology standpoint (honestly, how on earth do those things get published). Do you know if its been repeated looking at actual differences in perceived and real score to make sure it isn't just a sampling issue?

The topic is interesting, so maybe the journal was willing to look past some of the design flaws.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

......

Agreed.

*Backs out of the thread slowly.....*

 

[erg923]

"money can't buy me love" Jon.........

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Jon might have a point. I was talking to a guy last night when he randomly said "how much are you in the hole 'cause of grad school, if you don't mind me asking?" When I told him I wasn't in the hole he breathed an audible sigh of relief.


Though, I don't "get" the whole thing about women wanting men that have higher status than they do. Maybe I'm just backwards.


Jon's PhD comment sounded dirty.

 

[Ollie123]

Of course, engineers have a tendency to believe their way of thinking is the only proper train of thought and that everyone else is mentally deficient.

This statement amused me to no end.

For an internal financial accounting class I took for my business degree, we actually had a whole 3 hour class time set aside that was called "Accounting and other divisions in business" (or something like that) on the syllabus. It turned out to be a 3 hour lecture on how to explain to engineers that a small tweak that makes something "more efficient" isn't necessarily worthwhile if it costs a 50 million dollars.

I told my engineering friends later and they laughed, then told me it was wrong because that 50 million dollar investment would "earn itself back over time" as long as it made things more efficient, thus proving my professors point