Why does DO = MD?

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mushok103

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I know that DOs and MDs are pretty much equals in the world of medicine. I don't understand why it is SO much harder to get into allopathic schools than osteo schools. I mean some student is told they are "not good enough" to become an MD, but with the same stats they are "good enough" become a DO. Then years later they are just as valued as the MD?

Could anyone explain this to me (in a civil way)?

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I don't think it's a matter of "good enough" or "not good enough", just that DO schools have more relaxed admissions standards, perhaps because they are not as well-known and therefore attract less applicants. It's still definitely not easy to get in, and the medical training is just as rigorous. Moreover, in order to practice, DO graduates need to go through the same kinds of residencies and fellowships as MD graduates. They're being held to the same standards as MDs, so there's no reason to consider them "less valuable" than MDs.

There are also some key differences between the two in their approach to medicine. I suggest you check out these links...

http://www.academyofosteopathy.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathic_medicine_in_the_United_States
 
Yawn.

Perhaps because once they actually start practicing, they are found to be equally competent.

But why don't you ask some real doctors instead of pre-meds who have their own biased, uninformed opinions about what the answer might be?
 
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People who graduate from four year undergrads are also on "the same level." Nonetheless, some undergrads are more desireable than others. Likewise for medical and DO schools. This is even true when you compare one MD school to another.
 
People who graduate from four year undergrads are also on "the same level." Nonetheless, some undergrads are more desireable than others. Likewise for medical and DO schools. This is even true when you compare one MD school to another.


That's true, but there is a difference between say a community college and a major university. You may graduate from both with a degree, but most people would not say that the two graduates are on the same level. However, I've seen people get really heated when someone hints that a DO is not on the same level or not as desirable as an MD. This just seems strange.
 
That's true, but there is a difference between say a community college and a major university. You may graduate from both with a degree, but most people would not say that the two graduates are on the same level. However, I've seen people get really heated when someone hints that a DO is not on the same level or not as desirable as an MD. This just seems strange.

People don't graduate from community colleges with a 4-year degree and then go on to the same level of jobs and postgraduate training. I think a more accurate comparison would be between Ivies and state schools, but even that doesn't quite capture it.

More importantly... it's a different approach to medicine, not a "lesser" or "easier" one. The fact that the average matriculant's MCAT is a few points lower is incidental. Yes, some people view it as a "back door" into medicine, but the fact is that if you couldn't cut it as an MD physician, you most likely won't cut it as a DO physician either.
 
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That's true, but there is a difference between say a community college and a major university. You may graduate from both with a degree, but most people would not say that the two graduates are on the same level. However, I've seen people get really heated when someone hints that a DO is not on the same level or not as desirable as an MD. This just seems strange.

Because the only people who say that DO isn't equal are premeds with their head up their ass, and that can get annoying after a while.
 
More importantly... it's a different approach to medicine, not a "lesser" or "easier" one. The fact that the average matriculant's MCAT is a few points lower is incidental. Yes, some people view it as a "back door" into medicine, but the fact is that if you couldn't cut it as an MD physician, you most likely won't cut it as a DO physician either.

THe curriculum of DO schools is the same as MD except you also have to learn OMM, so it really isn't a different approach anymore. The reason admissions stats (GPA + MCAT) are somewhat lower than MD programs I think is largely a supply and demand issue. A lot of people don't even know about the DO option, and for those that do many premeds are biased against it. A doctor is a doctor is a doctor.
 
I remember when I was applying to D.O. programs, not EVEN ONE of my premed classmates who were applying the same year even knew what a DO degree is. Those people weren't going to apply if I didn't inform them. Those are one of the many reasons why DO is less competitive :idea: In fact, one of those people I'm referring to is now a DO student and would not have even applied before I told him about it. Other than that, there are certain people that need to go to the best schools in the country, wanted to be an "MD" since they were little - not a physician, those who do not believe in Osteopathic medicine, the non-traditional students who DO schools tend to like (the more well rounded, experienced the real world, is sure this is what they want applicant) who usually have less than stellar grades and MCATs, and the list goes on... in the end though, you're physicians, full privelidges in the entire country by law and work side-by-side in the hospitals and clinics, use the same billing codes, insurance providers, etc.
 
THe curriculum of DO schools is the same as MD except you also have to learn OMM, so it really isn't a different approach anymore.

I meant more as far as a philosophy. Osteopathy purports to be a more "holistic" approach to medicine. But yeah, at the end of the day... same training, same skills.
 
My dad who is an attending at a medical university was telling me that the new DO and caribbean grad residents weren't doing as well in his specialty program compared to the MD students and even the foreign medical graduates. Surprising to me...because the area he lives in has a huge and pretty well known DO school.
But typically in his program, he selects MD, then DO or foreign grads, then caribb, then the americans that go out of the country to med school and try to come back. But then he emphasized the importance of standardized test scores. Even playing field for all.
 
I meant more as far as a philosophy. Osteopathy purports to be a more "holistic" approach to medicine. But yeah, at the end of the day... same training, same skills.

I don't buy into the belief that DO's are more "holistic" than MD's. In fact I think it's disparaging to MD's when people say that. At my school we are taught to view the body "holistically", incorporating biology/behavior/social factors and what not. Most practicing DO's don't even use OMM (which is the only difference) and they go on to practice like regular MD's.

btw, I'm not saying that's what you said, just stating that when I hear other people say DO's are more holistic I think it's a bunch of crap.
 
DO schools often don't have their "own" hospitals and usually lack significant biomedical research operations. Likewise, the community hospitals that the students rotate in often don't get as many zebra cases that enhance education.

You can argue that the community hospitals have fewer/no residents so medical students could do more, however that doesn't seem to impact the quality of the student too much. In the end, DO schools emphasize primary care in their missions more than MD schools do. This is probably the ultimate difference, especially since many of us at MD schools see primary care as a field that will be dominated by NP/PAs in the future as the needs for primary care in our health care system. This doesn't take anything away from DOs, but that stated emphasis on primary care corners DOs into a particular role as physicians (yes I am aware that there is a possibility that you can be a radonc/ophtho/derm/neurosurg as a DO)
 
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That's true, but there is a difference between say a community college and a major university. You may graduate from both with a degree, but most people would not say that the two graduates are on the same level. However, I've seen people get really heated when someone hints that a DO is not on the same level or not as desirable as an MD. This just seems strange.
Fall back man, you're talking real bogus right now. You can't equate a DO to a CC. DO=MD because they both go through 4yrs of school, take licensing exams, go on to residency and practice the full spectrum of healthcare in the US.

Don't be so naive and trollish.
 
My dad who is an attending at a medical university was telling me that the new DO and caribbean grad residents weren't doing as well in his specialty program compared to the MD students and even the foreign medical graduates. Surprising to me...because the area he lives in has a huge and pretty well known DO school.

Are you talking about Des Moines? I've heard similar things here.
 
My dad who is an attending at a medical university was telling me that the new DO and caribbean grad residents weren't doing as well in his specialty program compared to the MD students and even the foreign medical graduates. Surprising to me...because the area he lives in has a huge and pretty well known DO school.
But typically in his program, he selects MD, then DO or foreign grads, then caribb, then the americans that go out of the country to med school and try to come back. But then he emphasized the importance of standardized test scores. Even playing field for all.

Standardized test scores provide an even playing field, and on that even playing field people that go for MD tend to do better. Then they both go through training to become physicians, but I don't see where the DO students catch up to the MD students. Also if it's true that DOs struggle more than MDs in specialty programs is the training really equal (other than OMM)?
 
It's called "Supply and Demand".

1) At the school level:
The MD schools attract the best of the applicant pool b/c the degree has better recognition/research opportunities. The DO schools do not have "relaxed admission standards" they are simply picking from what's left of the applicant pool following MD admission in most cases.

2) At the national level:
The US needs a certain amount of physician's trained. If you don't have the contribution from DO schools you have to bring in FMGs/IMGs to fill those spots.

Bottom line, the training and standards of care are the same that's why they're equivalent. Once you get pass the med school admissions game both MD/DOs are subject to national board exams that set the bar for what defines minimum standards to become a physician. In other words, it's not so much the product going into the system that matters but the product coming out. And there's a demand for both MD/DO products.
 
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yeah that's the one I meant.
glad you like it there. he's trying to get me to come back to kansas.
 
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:beat:

:bodyslams dead horse and steps on its head:
 
yeah that's the one I meant. My dad's probably one of your professors.

glad you like it there. he's trying to get me to come back to kansas.

Yeah you should definitely apply, I chose KU over two other MD schools, and I'm really happy I did. Our curriculum really integrates the best technology that's out there right now, and honestly I don't even know what med school would be like without a tablet/onenote software.
 
OP, this is a topic that you could find all the info you want if you just used the SEARCH feature or read through the pre-osteo or Osteo forums.

Since the topic is already under discussion, you guys go ahead and keep a civil discussion on the matter. All participants are notified right now that any hints of bashing aimed at any member or any profession will be dealt with as though a warning has already been issued. Everybody play fair and play nice.
:ninja:
 
It's called "Supply and Demand".

1) At the school level:
The MD schools attract the best of the applicant pool b/c the degree has better recognition/research opportunities. The DO schools do not have "relaxed admission standards" they are simply picking from what's left of the applicant pool following MD admission in most cases.

2) At the national level:
The US needs a certain amount of physician's trained. If you don't have the contribution from DO schools you have to bring in FMGs/IMGs to fill those spots.

Bottom line, the training and standards of care are the same that's why they're equivalent. Once you get pass the med school admissions game both MD/DOs are subject to national board exams that set the bar for what defines minimum standards to become a physician. In other words, it's not so much the product going into the system that matters but the product coming out. And there's a demand for both MD/DO products.

Thank you. This is more what I was looking for.
 
My dad who is an attending at a medical university was telling me that the new DO and caribbean grad residents weren't doing as well in his specialty program compared to the MD students and even the foreign medical graduates. Surprising to me...because the area he lives in has a huge and pretty well known DO school.
But typically in his program, he selects MD, then DO or foreign grads, then caribb, then the americans that go out of the country to med school and try to come back. But then he emphasized the importance of standardized test scores. Even playing field for all.

I've also heard this from an OB/GYN attending. I understand this doesn't mean that this is true across the board, but this is just what I've heard.
 
My dad who is an attending at a medical university was telling me that the new DO and caribbean grad residents weren't doing as well in his specialty program compared to the MD students and even the foreign medical graduates. Surprising to me...because the area he lives in has a huge and pretty well known DO school.
But typically in his program, he selects MD, then DO or foreign grads, then caribb, then the americans that go out of the country to med school and try to come back. But then he emphasized the importance of standardized test scores. Even playing field for all.

Eh...for every anecdote like this one, you'll find one arguing that DOs are better prepared for residency or perform on a higher level than their MD counterparts (no, I'm not saying this is true, just that some people may or may not attest to this).

I know a director of a residency program out on the west coast and he LOVES DOs, and he's an MD. He says he prefers to hire DOs over MDs for his allopathic residency program. So there ya go, a highly unscientific attempt to refute your earlier statement. :p

But really, I think the supply/demand thing plays a lot into why DO admissions is slightly less competitive than MD admissions. But I wouldn't say either route is particularly easy by any stretch of the imagination.
 
The only reason you buy a Porsche Boxster is because you can't afford a 911......


The only reason you go DO is because you didn't get in to MD......
 
Cuz SDN was started by DO's so don't you dare say otherwise.
 
The only reason you buy a Porsche Boxster is because you can't afford a 911......


The only reason you go DO is because you didn't get in to MD......
Get over yourself. I know a dude that turned down 3 UCs for Western.
 
Because the only people who say that DO isn't equal are premeds with their head up their ass, and that can get annoying after a while.

Kudos to myself. This thread panned out exactly as I thought.
 
OP, use the SEARCH feature. We have some members on this forum who still don't have enough self control to be able to discuss the differences without trying to demean other professionals.

Closing.
 
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