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According to NRMP PD survey just about every specialty is significantly more likely to rank/Interview DOs than US-IMGs except surg specialties like NS and ENT. Why is this?
According to NRMP PD survey just about every specialty is significantly more likely to rank/Interview DOs than US-IMGs except surg specialties like NS and ENT. Why is this?
I'm just curious to why this is the case. It's my understanding that a lot of DO bias comes from the fact that DO schools take less competitive applicants and have less structured clinical rotations. But don't Carrib schools take even less competitive applicants and have worse clinical sites?Do you think this shouldn't be the case? Just curious.
Do you have the link to the survey?
According to NRMP PD survey just about every specialty is significantly more likely to rank/Interview DOs than US-IMGs except surg specialties like NS and ENT. Why is this?
IMG=/=Caribbean gradI'm just curious to why this is the case. It's my understanding that a lot of DO bias comes from the fact that DO schools take less competitive applicants and have less structured clinical rotations. But don't Carrib schools take even less competitive applicants and have worse clinical sites?
What about DO schools makes PDs of surgical specialty programs less fond of them than Carrib grads?
Link:. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...WiTHyYMb_gcWoN7og&sig2=bwbuwgj9mV3zgUDsrnrEeg
DOs and US-IMGs had similar results in IM as well last time I looked at that survey.
They have data for both US IMGs and non-US IMGs. The interview & rank rates are similar across quite a few specialties for DOs and US IMGs, and both are not too far off from non-US IMGs.My thoughts (and guess) are this. All surgical specialties are very competitive so it's hard for any normal DO or Carribean grad to match into them. But I believe there are MDs/MBBSs from countries such as UK, Australia, Canada etc that have extensive research and maybe PhDs from good institutions that make them stellar candidates. This is why the surgical specialties looks like it's favored to IMGs. I think in the normal sense DO > Carrib grads, but because so few DO/Carribs match into them, the few exceptional IMGs from other places that do match into them skew the numbers in favor of them.
I have seem a few IM programs that have 100% IMG... Maybe these programs rather have IMG with good scores than below average US students...Some IM hospitals are known to be sweat shops for IMGs.
I have seem a few IM programs that have 100% IMG... Maybe these programs rather have IMG with good scores than below average US students...
And you're just barely doing your homework now?wow that report makes me very scared about becoming a DO... you literally have half the opportunity as an MD. Never realized it was this cutthroat. Ortho/Derm/ Plastics/ Vascular surgery are completely out of the question regardless of performance it seems lol
wow that report makes me very scared about becoming a DO... you literally have half the opportunity as an MD. Never realized it was this cutthroat. Ortho/Derm/ Plastics/ Vascular surgery are completely out of the question regardless of performance it seems lol
I've done a lot of homework, but never have seen this report. I just always had the impression that if you really worked your a** off you could do anything.. kinda depressingAnd you're just barely doing your homework now?
I've done a lot of homework, but never have seen this report. I just always had the impression that if you really worked your a** off you could do anything.. kinda depressing
I've done a lot of homework, but never have seen this report. I just always had the impression that if you really worked your a** off you could do anything.. kinda depressing
Because of the AOA. Applicants that are strong and want surgical subspecialties have traditionally applied AOA for a better shot at matching their desired specialty. This means PDs have more experience with IMGs and also receive less of the stellar applicants that go into AOA. Other specialties have had history with matching DOs. One upside of the merger is that over time these ACGME residencies will open to DOs because they'll apply to all residencies at the same time.According to NRMP PD survey just about every specialty is significantly more likely to rank/Interview DOs than US-IMGs except surg specialties like NS and ENT. Why is this?
I have seem a few IM programs that have 100% IMG... Maybe these programs rather have IMG with good scores than below average US students...
There's more than a few programs that are 100% IMG.I think probably between 10-30% of all IM programs are over 50% IMG. I know from where I'm from aside from the top of the mountain most of the programs are majority IMG.
There's a reason why more DO schools are popping up like McDonald's franchises. DO schools want to make primary care docs. That's it.
Many DO school rotations are garbage. It's essentially glorified shadowing.
To any pre-med reading this, come 2020, kiss buh-bye to surgery, plastics, neurosurgery, derm, ortho, etc.
Know what you are getting yourself into.
Say hello to FM and IM baby!
Urine dipsticks for you! and for you! and for you!
TBH if you're in a DO school you're probably there for a reason. There's a good chance you wouldn't have got into these fields anyway. Not everyone can score >70th percentile on boards.There's a reason why more DO schools are popping up like McDonald's franchises. DO schools want to make primary care docs. That's it.
Many DO school rotations are garbage. It's essentially glorified shadowing.
To any pre-med reading this, come 2020, kiss buh-bye to surgery, plastics, neurosurgery, derm, ortho, etc.
Know what you are getting yourself into.
Say hello to FM and IM baby!
Urine dipsticks for you! and for you! and for you!
I've done a lot of homework, but never have seen this report. I just always had the impression that if you really worked your a** off you could do anything.. kinda depressing
TBH if you're in a DO school you're probably there for a reason. There's a good chance you wouldn't have got into these fields anyway. Not everyone can score >70th percentile on boards.
TBH if you're in a DO school you're probably there for a reason. There's a good chance you wouldn't have got into these fields anyway. Not everyone can score >70th percentile on boards.
Nothing wrong with that tbh. If you go into medical school unwilling or utterly uninterested in IM or FM then you're probably setting yourself up to be more unhappy than everyone else.
There's a reason why more DO schools are popping up like McDonald's franchises. DO schools want to make primary care docs. That's it.
Many DO school rotations are garbage. It's essentially glorified shadowing.
.....
I have nothing against these programs that have a 100% IMG. Au contraire, I am applying the a few of them as a US student because I am so scared about not getting a spot in the match.There's more than a few programs that are 100% IMG.
There were >7,000 ACGME categorical PGY1 IM positions in 2016. <4,000 USMDs + DOs even applied for those spots. So there's >3,000 more categorical IM spots than US grads applying to fill them. Of course there are going to be programs, especially the least desirable, that are 100% IMG.
I have nothing against these programs that have a 100% IMG. Au contraire, I am applying the a few of them as a US student because I am so scared about not getting a spot in the match.
Disagree. A doctor is a doctor is a doctor.Bottom line. To the Pre-meds out there...
KEEP UR OPTIONS OPEN.
ALWAYS bust your ass in undergrad and try to get into a MD program.
If you do not want primary care... do not go DO.
You are honestly better off going PA and then specializing and being able to enter surgery and the competitive fields.
Or become a CRNA.
I am applying to only 10 programs that have >75% IMGs. The other 40 will be mid/low tier university programs. 10 programs will cost <$300. That is a drop in the bucket after spending 250-275k getting a medical degree.Then you're wasting you're money. There's a reason they're 100% IMG.
Bottom line. To the Pre-meds out there...
KEEP UR OPTIONS OPEN.
ALWAYS bust your ass in undergrad and try to get into a MD program.
If you do not want primary care... do not go DO.
You are honestly better off going PA and then specializing and being able to enter surgery and the competitive fields.
Or become a CRNA.
I am applying to only 10 programs that have >75% IMGs. The other 40 will be mid/low tier university programs. 10 programs will cost <$300. That is a drop in the bucket after spending 250-275k getting a medical degree.
Bottom line. To the Pre-meds out there...
KEEP UR OPTIONS OPEN.
ALWAYS bust your ass in undergrad and try to get into a MD program.
If you do not want primary care... do not go DO.
You are honestly better off going PA and then specializing and being able to enter surgery and the competitive fields.
Or become a CRNA.
215-220 from a low tier MD and my class rank will be probably in the 4th quartile. Will only have 2 research projects under my belt. No poster presentations and publications!Aren't you in the 220s? Plus you're an MD. You need to get some balls son. Acting like a baby is going to hurt you way more than a "low" step 1.
This is total bull****. Majority of AOA residencies are converting and most will likely still take DOs. My states DO ortho program that has initial ACGME accredited said the will still only consider DOs for their program.There's a reason why more DO schools are popping up like McDonald's franchises. DO schools want to make primary care docs. That's it.
Many DO school rotations are garbage. It's essentially glorified shadowing.
To any pre-med reading this, come 2020, kiss buh-bye to surgery, plastics, neurosurgery, derm, ortho, etc.
Know what you are getting yourself into.
Say hello to FM and IM baby!
Urine dipsticks for you! and for you! and for you!
TBH if you're in a DO school you're probably there for a reason. There's a good chance you wouldn't have got into these fields anyway. Not everyone can score >70th percentile on boards.
Bottom line. To the Pre-meds out there...
KEEP UR OPTIONS OPEN.
ALWAYS bust your ass in undergrad and try to get into a MD program.
If you do not want primary care... do not go DO.
You are honestly better off going PA and then specializing and being able to enter surgery and the competitive fields.
Or become a CRNA.
It's not about being called a doctor or money. If someone is not comfortable with the possibility of matching primary care then they shouldn't go DO. There are PAs that are able to do procedures that EM doctors do.Dude are you on drugs? Wtf are you talking about? A surgery PA over a DO? Get a grip on yourself. Don't sell out fellow physicians to midlevels -
How can you even compare a DR to a crna to a PA? Good god. Hope you're joking.
You mean DO can't match into EM or they can't do IM and go on to sub-specialize. Give me a break!It's not about being called a doctor or money. If someone is not comfortable with the possibility of matching primary care then they shouldn't go DO. There are PAs that are able to do procedures that EM doctors do.
It's not about being called a doctor or money. If someone is not comfortable with the possibility of matching primary care then they shouldn't go DO. There are PAs that are able to do procedures that EM doctors do.
These threads, one way or the other, always end the same.
IMO, be realistic and work hard, you'll more than likely match happily.
It's not about money for some...This guy gets it.
It's not about the "respect" factor for me.
I'd go where the money is, personally.
When a midlevel can make ~200K with less liability and LESS time spent than some primary care docs, AND have unions to back them up.... then I'd totally be on board.
Us future physicians have no backing with one another. Too many fragile egos.
My point about becoming a midlevel was solely for those who DO NOT WANT TO ENTER PRIMARY CARE and believe they will wholeheartedly match into neurosurgery.
OPP is a timesink. It truly is not worth it.
It's another hurdle for me personally... but I'll get over it like I always have been,
If I offended anybody, just know it was meant for those who do NOT want to do primary care and see DO as a "backdoor" into surgery or something else.
Bottom line...
MD> DO > ....PA .... CRNA..... >>>>>> Caribbean.
It's not about money for some...