Why does every specialty more open to DOs than IMGs except for surgical subspecialties?

[qwerty89]

Nothing wrong with that tbh. If you go into medical school unwilling or utterly uninterested in IM or FM then you're probably setting yourself up to be more unhappy than everyone else.

BS. I went in knowing I would likely do Radiology. I disliked patient contact as early as MS1 with our fake patient interview course.

PGY-2 Diagnostic Radiology Resident and loving it.

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[DetectiveAlonzo]

I think the point you're missing is being a PA in surgery is like being a NP in family practice - you're not the doctor. You're not doing much work. You're retracting or maybe at the most harvesting a vein.

You're much much better off doing family practice as a DO and working in EM or something in a rural area. Hell, just be AVERAGE in medical school and do DO gen surgery.

I also disagree with your view on the Carrib - IF you can make it out and pass your usmle's - much better off being a primary care doc doing minor procedures in a rural setting than being a surgeons peon and scutmonkey. ( what a surgery PA is )

Trust me. I did prelim surg and worked with Pa's all day. You're far better off being a family doc.

No I can totally see where you are coming from sir, but like I said...

For those who DO NOT want to do primary care... want less training time... less liability... and wanna make some $$$... midlevel is where it is at.

Plus... the carib is still a gamble. There are plenty of people going there who are solely going for the MD title. I know too many to count that turned down DO acceptances solely for this reason.

 

[Rads312]

My point about becoming a midlevel was solely for those who DO NOT WANT TO ENTER PRIMARY CARE and believe they will wholeheartedly match into something like neurosurgery.

OPP is a timesink. It truly is not worth it.

It's another hurdle for me personally... but I'll get over it like I always have been,

If I offended anybody, just know it was meant for those who do NOT want to do primary care and see DO as a "backdoor" into surgery or something else.

Bottom line...

MD> DO > ....PA .... CRNA..... >>>>>> Caribbean.

Are you still a pre med, or med student? Your perspective is totally warped.

Yes, US MD > DO > ( depending on market) > FMG/= Carrib IMG >>>>>>> DONT compare doctors to midlevels.

It's that mindset that is a Screwing us over. Physicians need to stick together dude - or we will ALL get marginalized by midlevels like anesthesia did by CRNA's.

 

[ghiblijiang]

You mean DO can't match into EM or they can't do IM and go on to sub-specialize. Give me a break!

I don't know about you; I hate being a second class citizen.

You're always going to be a second class citizen to people who care about status unless you're in Harvard medical school. Sure you can try to match EM or do a IM fellowship but not many will get what they want. Some people value being able to do procedure more than money or status. You have a chance of never being able to do a procedure if you screw up your boards. If those people have a SURGERY OR BUST mind set then why tell them to gamble?

 

[Rads312]

No I can totally see where you are coming from sir, but like I said...

For those who DO NOT want to do primary care... want less training time... less liability... and wanna make some $$$... midlevel is where it is at.

Plus... the carib is still a gamble. There are plenty of people going there who are solely going for the MD title. I know too many to count that turned down DO acceptances solely for this reason.

That's a different story. Yeah if you want 150-200k and want to be a nurse, by all means be a crna. But spend your life as a nurse ( or get a doctoring in nursing and try to be called doctor).

It's harsh to say but I'd much rather not be in healthcare than be a midlevel with a lifelong inferiority complex.

 

[W19]

When I see physician's consult orders that say: 'Patient not to be seen by NP/PA' , that was enough for me to say it's either I stay in nursing as a RN or become a physician.

 

[Rads312]

You're always going to be a second class citizen to people who care about status unless you're in Harvard medical school. Sure you can try to match EM or do a IM fellowship but not many will get what they want. Some people value being able to do procedure more than money or status. You have a chance of never being able to do a procedure if you screw up your boards. If those people have a SURGERY OR BUST mind set then why tell them to gamble?

Because even if you're a second class citizen , being a physician holds a level of status and accomplishment (foreign grads included) that being a nurse or Pa doesn't. These are facts.

If you're procedure crazy, plenty of fellowships in primary care and medicine to cater to that.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Are you still a pre med, or med student? Your perspective is totally warped.

Yes, US MD > DO > ( depending on market) > FMG/= Carrib IMG >>>>>>> DONT compare doctors to midlevels.

It's that mindset that is a Screwing us over. Physicians need to stick together dude - or we will ALL get marginalized by midlevels like anesthesia did by CRNA's.

I'm a med student. I agree with everything you are saying man.

Bottom line is WE ARE ALL getting marginalized and I can say that in this lifetime, we will all be cogs in a hospital.

Private practice is dying. Reimbursements are being cut across the line for every specialty.

There are corporations that are taking over major hospital systems because at the end of the day.. .it is all about business and controlling the bottom line.

some people want respect and prestige... which is totally cool and I see where you are coming from.

but me?? .... point me to the $$$.

Doctors do not get as much respect as the old days... and that is for sure.

There is physician dissatisfaction across the board.

 

[Rads312]

I'm a med student. I agree with everything you are saying man.

Bottom line is WE ARE ALL getting marginalized and I can say that in this lifetime, we will all be cogs in a hospital.

Private practice is dying. Reimbursements are being cut across the line for every specialty.

There are corporations that are taking over major hospital systems because at the end of the day.. .it is all about business and controlling the bottom line.

some people want respect and prestige...

but me?? .... point me to the $$$.

Sure. That's why I'm doing interventional radiology and not pediatrics. Will I make what IR guys made 15 years ago? Heck no.

But one thing you'll realize, after a certain level of income (idk, say 250k ) , being satisfied with your career choice is much more important.

Also, regardless of policy and what happens to reimbursements, physicians will continue to have broader opportunities as innovators and the leaders in medicine.

Don't think I could live with myself being a nurse or PA. I worked way too hard for that.

PS - crna schools are Proliferating faster than DO schools. They 150-200k a year for 50 hours a week dream is coming to an end soon for them. I promise.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Sure. That's why I'm doing interventional radiology and not pediatrics. Will I make what IR guys made 15 years ago? Heck no.

But one thing you'll realize, after a certain level of income (idk, say 250k ) , being satisfied with your career choice is much more important.

Also, regardless of policy and what happens to reimbursements, physicians will continue to have broader opportunities as innovators and the leaders in medicine.

Don't think I could live with myself being a nurse or PA. I worked way too hard for that.

PS - crna schools are Proliferating faster than DO schools. They 150-200k a year for 50 hours a week dream is coming to an end soon for them. I promise.

I totally agree with and respect your point. I hope you get everything you desire my man. Wish you the best of luck on your path.

 

[zero0]

Sure. That's why I'm doing interventional radiology and not pediatrics. Will I make what IR guys made 15 years ago? Heck no.

But one thing you'll realize, after a certain level of income (idk, say 250k ) , being satisfied with your career choice is much more important.

Also, regardless of policy and what happens to reimbursements, physicians will continue to have broader opportunities as innovators and the leaders in medicine.

Don't think I could live with myself being a nurse or PA. I worked way too hard for that.

PS - crna schools are Proliferating faster than DO schools. They 150-200k a year for 50 hours a week dream is coming to an end soon for them. I promise.

It already has in some parts. They're being told to work longer for the same pay or leave. It's a seller's market now.

 

[W19]

It already has in some parts. They're being told to work longer for the same pay or leave. It's a seller's market now.

This is good news...

 

[ghiblijiang]

I don't like NPs and PAs just as much as you guys, I got really angry when I had to wait a month and a half for an appointment with an FMG GI specialist and at the end I was saw by an NP for no more than 3 minutes. But your bias with status doesn't mean anything for anyone else except you. Don't tell all premeds that the DO route is always a better option than NP/PA if they like surgery. It's wrong. If they happen to do poorly and match rheumatology then sure they'll do joint injections after 4 years of med school, 3 years of residency and 2 years of fellowship, but it won't be in the OR. I'd rather advice them to look into podiatry.

 

[W19]

I don't like NPs and PAs just as much as you guys, I got really angry when I had to wait a month and a half for an appointment with an FMG GI specialist and at the end I was saw by an NP for no more than 3 minutes. But your bias with status doesn't mean anything for anyone else except you. Don't tell all premeds that the DO route is always a better option than NP/PA if they like surgery. It's wrong. If they happen to do poorly and match rheumatology then sure they'll do joint injections after 4 years of med school, 3 years of residency and 2 years of fellowship, but it won't be in the OR. I'd rather advice them to look into podiatry.

I have no idea why 'FMG' is relevant here...

 

[ghiblijiang]

I have no idea why 'FMG' is relevant here...

To imply that in addition to NPs and PAs, I dislike money hungry FMGs who hire NPs to see their patients as well.

 

[zero0]

This is good news...

Hey they wanted to be anesthesiologists, they got it. Just for y'know half the pay. That's why they're so desperate to oust anesthesiologists and stepping up the propaganda lately. Their job market is getting tight.

I don't like NPs and PAs just as much as you guys, I got really angry when I had to wait a month and a half for an appointment with an FMG GI specialist and at the end I was saw by an NP for no more than 3 minutes. But your bias with status doesn't mean anything for anyone else except you. Don't tell all premeds that the DO route is always a better option than NP/PA if they like surgery. It's wrong. If they happen to do poorly and match rheumatology then sure they'll do joint injections after 4 years of med school, 3 years of residency and 2 years of fellowship, but it won't be in the OR. I'd rather advice them to look into podiatry.

Mute point. Most pre-meds, being God's gift to the world and all, view podiatry as beneath them. It's a shame because podiatry is a great gig. 3 years of training and you're a surgeon, that's pretty cool.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

BS. I went in knowing I would likely do Radiology. I disliked patient contact as early as MS1 with our fake patient interview course.

PGY-2 Diagnostic Radiology Resident and loving it.

I mean you were smart and worked really hard for it and got into a field that is at least moderately competitive requiring decent performance. For the people who entered only wanting to do surgery or etc and didn't really like the idea of working with regular patients them going into FM is a path towards misery.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Hey they wanted to be anesthesiologists, they got it. Just for y'know half the pay. That's why they're so desperate to oust anesthesiologists and stepping up the propaganda lately. Their job market is getting tight.

Mute point. Most pre-meds, being God's gift to the world and all, view podiatry as beneath them. It's a shame because podiatry is a great gig. 3 years of training and you're a surgeon, that's pretty cool.

That's one point I'd like to make.

BEFORE going for the MIDLEVEL...

I'd have gone to PODIATRY! DAMN!

 

[W19]

To imply that in addition to NPs and PAs, I dislike money hungry FMGs who hire NPs to see their patients as well.

Many AMGs have PA/NP working for then. In fact, the last time I saw my PCP (a NSU-COM grad) was probably 8 years ago. She has a couple of shops and staff them with NP/PA.

 

[ghiblijiang]

Many AMGs have PA/NP working for then. In fact, the last time I saw my PCP was probably 8 years ago. She has a couple of shops and staff them with NP/PA.

Sure it's very common to see NP/PA/phlebotomists working at a physician's office to do lab work or talk to patients about drug allergies and complaints. The physician would still see you after. The problem exists when you don't even know what the physician look like after waiting a month and a half for the appointment. It wasn't an appointment to see a PCP either, it was a PCP's referral to see a specialist, who I never got to see. It's a problem when you have HMO insurance and have no freedom to choose your doctor or see a specialist without being approved by your PCP.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

FWIW if private practice is in the cards for me, I'll most likely utilize NPs and/or PAs as much as I can... given the appropriate context.

They have their roles in medicine for sure.

Are they doctors?

No way.

Was talking to a PA buddy of mine who is about to finish derm... and they have only been at the program for a year.

We don't start derm til the end of second year.

Our schooling makes their schooling look like child's play (bounce that chit like whoa).

 

[W19]

FWIW if private practice is in the cards for me, I'll most likely utilize NPs and/or PAs as much as I can... given the appropriate context.

They have their roles in medicine for sure.

Are they doctors?

No way.

Was talking to a PA buddy of mine who is about to finish derm... and they have only been at the program for a year.

We don't start derm til the end of second year.

Our schooling makes their schooling look like child's play (bounce that chit like whoa).

If you can't beat them, use them...

 

[68PGunner]

There's a reason why more DO schools are popping up like McDonald's franchises. DO schools want to make primary care docs. That's it.

Many DO school rotations are garbage. It's essentially glorified shadowing.

To any pre-med reading this, come 2020, kiss buh-bye to surgery, plastics, neurosurgery, derm, ortho, etc.

Know what you are getting yourself into.

Say hello to FM and IM baby!

Urine dipsticks for you! and for you! and for you!

$200K for urine dipsticks all day isn't a bad gig.

However, I would seriously cut myself if I'm a PCP for the rest of my life. I hate pt contact. I don't mind dealing w/ pts over legitimate concerns. However, I just hate talking for the sake of talking in order to connect w/ the person mentally and emotionally.

 

[ghiblijiang]

FWIW if private practice is in the cards for me, I'll most likely utilize NPs and/or PAs as much as I can... given the appropriate context.

They have their roles in medicine for sure.

Are they doctors?

No way.

Was talking to a PA buddy of mine who is about to finish derm... and they have only been at the program for a year.

We don't start derm til the end of second year.

Our schooling makes their schooling look like child's play (bounce that chit like whoa).

They do. They should be hired to reduce the scut work that doctors have to do so doctors could see more patients in an efficient way, not be used to replace patient care for people who have cheap insurance and have no choice but being stuck with the money hungry FMG.

 

[68PGunner]

Exactly... like I said in my post.... my rationale is for those that money is a concern.

Bottom line is... medicine for me will be a job to finance other areas I want to pursue.

Blows and hookers are respectable other interests...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

To imply that in addition to NPs and PAs, I dislike money hungry FMGs who hire NPs to see their patients as well.

The physician would still see you after. The problem exists when you don't even know what the physician look like after waiting a month and a half for the appointment

Spoiler: this has nothing to do with FMG... even with surgeons unless you ask specifically to see the doctor then you will most likely see the assistant. At the hospital I work at we have patients who don't even know what the surgeon looks like until they google him months after their surgery...

This happens in almost every field, with a lot of doctors.

 

[ghiblijiang]

Spoiler: this has nothing to do with FMG... even with surgeons unless you ask specifically to see the doctor then you will most likely see the assistant. At the hospital I work at we have patients who don't even know what the surgeon looks like until they google him months after their surgery...

This happens in almost every field, with a lot of doctors.

Surgeons are very different from an outpatient specialist without procedures. Surgeons aren't suppose to be doing workup. The work is already done and they're just telling the patients of what'll happen with the surgery. The outpatient specialist is suppose to do the workup before coming with a diagnosis. But that part was completely skipped for me.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The outpatient specialist is suppose to do the workup before coming with a diagnosis

This is literally the reason so many docs have NPs/PAs.... is to skip this step but still get paid for it. It has nothing to do with FMG status. Many of our local derms have a similar practice model, unless you make the appointment with the doctor specifically you will almost always see the assistant.

 

[Mad Jack]

I have seem a few IM programs that have 100% IMG... Maybe these programs rather have IMG with good scores than below average US students...

They like FMGs because they can work them to death without complaint- if they get dropped, it's back to the old country. That's why they're called IMG sweatshops, they're essentially indentured servants that will do anything to not lose their spot in the US.

 

[ghiblijiang]

This is literally the reason so many docs have NPs/PAs.... is to skip this step but still get paid for it. It has nothing to do with FMG status. Many of our local derms have a similar practice model, unless you make the appointment with the doctor specifically you will almost always see the assistant.

Derm is different as well where they see 80 patients a day, which makes sense because they are derms after all. But no where else that I've seen, not even PCP do they hire NPs/PAs as a substitute for a physician.

 

[W19]

They like FMGs because they can work them to death without complaint- if they get dropped, it's back to the old country. That's why they're called IMG sweatshops, they're essentially indentured servants that will do anything to not lose their spot in the US.

You just endure 3 years of hardships. That is not the end of the world.

 

[Mad Jack]

Surgeons are very different from an outpatient specialist without procedures. Surgeons aren't suppose to be doing workup. The work is already done and they're just telling the patients of what'll happen with the surgery. The outpatient specialist is suppose to do the workup before coming with a diagnosis. But that part was completely skipped for me.

Uh... I don't think you understand what the average surgeon does. 80% of surgery is knowing when to operate and on whom. Surgeons aren't just doing surgeries for other docs lol, they're the ones that do the diagnosis and perioperative management.

 

[Mad Jack]

You just endure 3 years of hardships. That is not the end of the world.

It certainly isn't. I'm just saying why some places have the preference. They're all about that captive work force.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Derm is different as well where they see 80 patients a day, which makes sense because they are derms after all. But no where else that I've seen, not even PCP do they hire NPs/PAs as a substitute for a physician.

Ok I'll stop using specific examples. What you have described happens in every office or clinic I have ever been in as a patient, a shadow, a volunteer, whatever, completely regardless of specialty.

 

[Mad Jack]

Derm is different as well where they see 80 patients a day, which makes sense because they are derms after all. But no where else that I've seen, not even PCP do they hire NPs/PAs as a substitute for a physician.

I've seen plenty of places that substitute physicians for midlevels. Primary care is the biggest area, but psychiatric NPs have basically taken over mental health prescribing in many communities because these places can't afford physicians.

 

[ghiblijiang]

Ok I'll stop using specific examples. What you have described happens in every office or clinic I have ever been in as a patient, a shadow, a volunteer, whatever, completely regardless of specialty.

Well then that makes the doctors who I shadowed with ~40 patients a day look like saints. I live in a major city with no shortage of doctors so my experience could be very different.

 

[W19]

I've seen plenty of places that substitute physicians for midlevels. Primary care is the biggest area, but psychiatric NPs have basically taken over mental health prescribing in many communities because these places can't afford physicians.

I dont understand the whole psych NP deal... The psych MD that was my preceptor always try to rule out if psych symptoms are not 'organic' first before arriving at a psych dx... so how can NP handle these stuffs if they don't have good knowledge in medicine?

 

[Mad Jack]

I dont understand the whole psych NP deal... The psych MD that was my preceptor always try to rule out if psych symptoms are not 'organic' in nature first before arriving at a psych dx... so how can NP handle these stuffs if they don't have good knowledge in medicine?

That's how psych is properly practiced, so I guess at least they were trying. But yeah, it's hard to do psychiatry properly as a non-physician.

 

[the argus]

They like FMGs because they can work them to death without complaint- if they get dropped, it's back to the old country. That's why they're called IMG sweatshops, they're essentially indentured servants that will do anything to not lose their spot in the US.

It certainly isn't. I'm just saying why some places have the preference. They're all about that captive work force.

This is such nonsense. They like IMGs because those are the only people applying to their programs.

Again, as I stated above, there's >3,000 more PGY1 IM positions every year than US grads applying to IM.

These programs are filled with IMGs because they are in run-down hospitals with little support staff, in poor areas, and with extremely difficult patient populations. US grads don't want to go to these hospitals.

If you had US grads applying to these programs, the PDs would take them in a heart beat. It's not like the PDs are turning down USMDs because they don't think they will be able to work them as hard as IMGs. There aren't different ACGME rules for US grads vs IMGs.

These programs are filled with IMGs because no one else want to go there. Plain and simple.

 

[Mad Jack]

This is such nonsense. They like IMGs because those are the only people applying to their programs.

Again, as I stated above, there's >3,000 more PGY1 IM positions every year than US grads applying to IM.

These programs are filled with IMGs because they are in run-down hospitals with little support staff, in poor areas, and with extremely difficult patient populations. US grads don't want to go to these hospitals.

If you had US grads applying to these programs, the PDs would take them in a heart beat. It's not like the PDs are turning down USMDs because they don't think they will be able to work them as hard as IMGs. There aren't different ACGME rules for US grads vs IMGs.

These programs are filled with IMGs because no one else want to go there. Plain and simple.

There was a PD of a certain malignant Chicago IM residency program that favored FMGs over US IMGs specifically because they were less likely to complain. I'm sure he wasn't the only one out there.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

If you can't beat them, use them...

haha damn straight.

 

[Rads312]

Surgeons are very different from an outpatient specialist without procedures. Surgeons aren't suppose to be doing workup. The work is already done and they're just telling the patients of what'll happen with the surgery. The outpatient specialist is suppose to do the workup before coming with a diagnosis. But that part was completely skipped for me.

I'm guessing you're a pre med?

No. that's not true. Surgeons are consulted on patients and are expected to do further work up, including imaging and pertinent labs, then proceed/not proceed to surgery. After the surgery they are responsible for at least 2 follow up visits in their clinic, they spent almost half their time doing paperwork and seeing patients in clinic. How do you not know this?

There's no such thing as just operating - that makes up at the most half your time in practice Amigo.

 

[Rads312]

I don't like NPs and PAs just as much as you guys, I got really angry when I had to wait a month and a half for an appointment with an FMG GI specialist and at the end I was saw by an NP for no more than 3 minutes. But your bias with status doesn't mean anything for anyone else except you. Don't tell all premeds that the DO route is always a better option than NP/PA if they like surgery. It's wrong. If they happen to do poorly and match rheumatology then sure they'll do joint injections after 4 years of med school, 3 years of residency and 2 years of fellowship, but it won't be in the OR. I'd rather advice them to look into podiatry.

Guys as a whole it's funny looking at this thread halfway through residency - some of you have NO idea how medicine actually works.

To those suggesting becoming a PA in surgery over fam practice - you don't actually think PA's in surgery actually OPERATE , do you ? where did you get that idea? They DONT.

Surgery PA's assist with BS level stuff that a med student or intern surgery resident does - retracting for the surgeon during surgery or occasionally closing after the surgery is done. On the floor, they are dealing with sutures / staples/ drains , and collecting in/outs and numbers for the surgeon when he is busy.

It's a BS job, it doesn't involve ANY actually surgery. If you're an incredible PA you may get to help harvest a vein AT THE MOST. ( I was doing that regularly as a prelim surg intern ).

I'm not speaking out of my butt here, I work with PA's and NP's in all fields every day.

It's like in interventional radiology - our PA's can scan the ultrasound for us if we are busy , occasionally put in some basic lines, maybe a thoracentesis - they aren't doing even basic biopsies or coiling aneurysms or doing chemoembolization..

If your interest is truly to do "procedures" or operate - telling someone to become a NP or PA IS A HUGE disservice to them. They will see MUCH more action as a interventional cardiologist, Nephrologist, Neurologist, critical care doc, or a multitude of other medical specialties.

Sure, Podiatry is not a bad backup. But it requires residency now, so the road is just as long.

 

[ghiblijiang]

Guys as a whole it's funny looking at this thread halfway through residency - some of you have NO idea how medicine actually works.

To those suggesting becoming a PA in surgery over fam practice - you don't actually think PA's in surgery actually OPERATE , do you ? where did you get that idea? They DONT.

Surgery PA's assist with BS level stuff that a med student or intern surgery resident does - retracting for the surgeon during surgery or occasionally closing after the surgery is done. On the floor, they are dealing with sutures / staples/ drains , and collecting in/outs and numbers for the surgeon when he is busy.

It's a BS job, it doesn't involve ANY actually surgery. If you're an incredible PA you may get to help harvest a vein AT THE MOST. ( I was doing that regularly as a prelim surg intern ).

I'm not speaking out of my butt here, I work with PA's and NP's in all fields every day.

It's like in interventional radiology - our PA's can scan the ultrasound for us if we are busy , occasionally put in some basic lines, maybe a thoracentesis - they aren't doing even basic biopsies or coiling aneurysms or doing chemoembolization..

If your interest is truly to do "procedures" or operate - telling someone to become a NP or PA IS A HUGE disservice to them. They will see MUCH more action as a interventional cardiologist, Nephrologist, Neurologist, critical care doc, or a multitude of other medical specialties.

Sure, Podiatry is not a bad backup. But it requires residency now, so the road is just as long.

How do you plan on landing an interventional radiology fellowship if your reading comprehension is this poor? It wasn't me who suggested NP/PA. I was offering an alternative to you circle jerks. All I'm saying is there are safer/shorter routes to do procedures than gambling on DO if they can't live without being able to do procedures. Doing drains, sutures are what interns and low level residents can do, sure you're not the big shot surgeon but you're still doing procedures. Not to mention you get the possibility of doing thoracentesis because interventional radiologists push them towards the lowly PAs to do the "BS job" that it is where even EM doctors rarely get to do. I mean if you happen to never land a fellowship then those PAs would actually see much more action than you ever will as a general radiologist. Like I said my suggestion only works for people who can't live without surgery. If they value status and money more then your route would be better and being able to do surgery shouldn't even be a factor in choosing a career.

Really? Podiatry takes just as long?.. lol..

 

[Moose A Moose]

So much misinformation in here. More than half of you seem better suited for jobs at Fox News or CNN than becoming physicians.

 

[ghiblijiang]

I'm guessing you're a pre med?

No. that's not true. Surgeons are consulted on patients and are expected to do further work up, including imaging and pertinent labs, then proceed/not proceed to surgery. After the surgery they are responsible for at least 2 follow up visits in their clinic, they spent almost half their time doing paperwork and seeing patients in clinic. How do you not know this?

There's no such thing as just operating - that makes up at the most half your time in practice Amigo.

Don't put words in someone's mouth. No one said they're just operating. Sure they're expected to evaluate the diagnosis with labs and imaging. But the patients were already seen by PCPs and other specialists before even getting in the surgeon's office. Surely your patients are the same as a radiology resident, how could you not realize this?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Don't put words in someone's mouth. No one said they're just operating. Sure they're expected to evaluate the diagnosis with labs and imaging. But the patients were already seen by PCPs and other specialists before even getting in the surgeon's office. Surely your patients are the same as a radiology resident, how could you not realize this?

That's... not how surgery works... it's part of their practice sure, but it's a small part.

 

[ghiblijiang]

Then how does it work? Do patients simply walk in knowing they need a heart transplant because they magically did most of the workup by themselves?

 

[Rads312]

How do you plan on landing an interventional radiology fellowship if your reading comprehension is this poor? It wasn't me who suggested NP/PA. I was offering an alternative to you circle jerks. All I'm saying is there are safer/shorter routes to do procedures than gambling on DO if they can't live without being able to do procedures. Doing drains, sutures are what interns and low level residents can do, sure you're not the big shot surgeon but you're still doing procedures. Not to mention you get the possibility of doing thoracentesis because interventional radiologists push them towards the lowly PAs to do the "BS job" that it is where even EM doctors rarely get to do. I mean if you happen to never land a fellowship then those PAs would actually see much more action than you ever will as a general radiologist. Like I said my suggestion only works for people who can't live without surgery. If they value status and money more then your route would be better and being able to do surgery shouldn't even be a factor in choosing a career.

Really? Podiatry takes just as long?.. lol..

1) I'm my programs designated early specialization in interventional radiology resident - i.e, one of our fellowship spots is already mine, so circle jerk that.


2.) Yes, podiatry school takes as long. It's 4 years of podiatry school followed by a (now required in most states) 3 or 4 year residency. Again, the fact that you don't know this compounds the fact that you're a clueless premed. Can I make a guess here - you're considering becoming a PA? I can't think of any other reason you're so butthurt over the topic.

No true physician or aspiring physician would consider being a "physicians assistant" as an alternative - no more than a law student would consider being a paralegal over a lawyer.

 

[Rads312]

"Do patients simply walk in knowing they need a heart transplant because they magically did most of the workup by themselves?"

Let me walk through it with you.

Depends on the surgery. For something as complicated as a heart or lung transplant - there are sooo many factors at play including organ availability, it will take forever to explain. Let's pick something easier, like a aortic valve replacement.

They see the patient in clinic, do a full physical/history on their own , re-evaluate the labs, and in many instances have to reorder labs and get more complicated imaging -
( cardiac MR for example ), fill out insurance paperwork, time off from work paperwork, often disability paperwork, and send the patient home. They then see the patient again and reevaluate everything , if everything is gravy , they set a surgery date.

They do the surgery , admit the patient, round on them daily and monitor their labs, vitals etc all on their own in the surgical ICU and floor until discharge. They then see the patient in clinic for at least 6 months and are then in charge of that patients meds related to surgery, wound care, and complications for life.

PCPs or others refer the patients - but this isn't the 50's. A surgeon is expected to do their own work up and evaluation ( and they do, for liability purposes if nothing else ) and follow the patient for a long time, or insurance doesn't pay them.