Why hasn't my sister gotten into medical school?

[Whyyyyy]

CLOSED IDC anymore


Note: I am shocked at how judgemental and prejudiced people can be. Especially of a person of whom they haven't even heard one word from and all they know is actually from an unreliable source. (yes, I am unrealiable because I really don't know my sister all too well.)
Anyways, if youre looking to insult my sister please go away.
I want to know of the differences between her and the people who did get accepted to a MD program. Please dont assume stuff about my sister because ven though she isnt nice to me, she's still family.

To those who think she is lazy and entitled, are totally wrong. If anything, I believe she is the opposite of that.
Hello, I have a sister who kinda cut off the family. Yeah, instead of the family cutting the child off, the child cuts the family off. This isn't mere independence, she barely speaks to us so I don't have much information about her application. However, everyone in my family wants her to succeed and get into medical school. I have always admired and respected my sister and I am shocked at her difficulty in getting into medical school.

My sister graduated in 2012 within 4 years
On a full scholarship at UMCP
With a bioengineering degree
With a 3.8 GPA (Maybe 3.78? My memory is judged because my mom says to round up when speaking about it. ;/)
MCAT: 31 or 32 (At least 31, but other than that I don't remember)

Extracurriculars
Exercise: She's amazing at martial arts but she's gotten injured a few times preventing her from competing sometimes.
She has been shadowing.She's done internship. Honestly, I'm drawing a blank here because my sister tells me nothing.
But I know that she's on top of her extracurriculars and such. She also definitely has recommendations from people from the university cause she worked at UMCP for like a year or so?

Downfalls
Re applicant
Asian
From my experience she's not compassionate... like at all, but she probably treats people outside of family different because she's pretty popular. She has a boyfriend and friends and etc.
Wants to stay near DC area, mid-East Coast to be with boyfriend.

Okay so here's the story:
My sister initally wanted to do MD/PHD program and get schooling for free like she did in college.
She decided not to apply in senior year and took a gap year of sorts after graduation and got a job.
A year passes and then she applies for MD/PHD programs. BUT according to her she applied late.
She doesnt' get into any MD program.
She does more extracurriculars but does not retake MCAT. Next/This application cycle comes.
She applies on time or early. From her preferred school, University of Maryland School of Medicine, she received a letter that said they needed to review her application more to decide but she was ultimately rejected.
She receives 2-3 interviews from schools in Virginia and West Virginia and ends up waitlisted.
She thinks her only option now is to do a masters program at Georgetown which she was accepted to and then reapply for medical school after she finishes her masters in one year.
However, West Virginian School Of Medicine has requested an interview of her, maybe it's the second time for this application cycle? I am unsure.
Maybe she'll get accepted and she won't have to do masters program? ;/
If she doesn't get in this cycle, she'll become a 3rd time applicant. What will be her chances then?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

It's very difficult for us to answer your question(s) given that we are getting second/third hand information about an estranged family member.

Bottom line you have already yourself identified several of the potential issues
1) Late application
2) Limited/inadequate number of applications
3) Not enough done in between cycles to substantially improve application

While this is wildly speculative of me, it sounds somewhat like she is just not that passionate about the process - which is often the case when you see someone applying to a very limited number of schools or applying late.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

It's very difficult for us to answer your question(s) given that we are getting second/third hand information about an estranged family member.

Bottom line you have already yourself identified several of the potential issues
1) Late application
2) Limited/inadequate number of applications
3) Not enough done in between cycles to substantially improve application

While this is wildly speculative of me, it sounds somewhat like she is just not that passionate about the process - which is often the case when you see someone applying to a very limited number of schools or applying late.

It's also possible that her MCAT and GPA have been inflated through your game of telephone. Unfortunately, adcoms don't round up scores like your mother!

Generally, those numbers would be competitive for MD. However, only applying to dual programs may be limiting her chances.

 

[QofQuimica]

It's very difficult for us to answer your question(s) given that we are getting second/third hand information about an estranged family member.

Bottom line you have already yourself identified several of the potential issues
1) Late application
2) Limited/inadequate number of applications
3) Not enough done in between cycles to substantially improve application

While this is wildly speculative of me, it sounds somewhat like she is just not that passionate about the process - which is often the case when you see someone applying to a very limited number of schools or applying late.

Agree with all of the above.

OP, medical school isn't something most people can waltz into. Even the "least competitive" med school is still very competitive, simply because there are more people who want to attend med school than there are seats for them all. So unlike college admissions, if your sister is dabbling with her med school apps, odds are good that she won't be successful. That's a good thing. Medical school is not a place for people to pass the time while they "find themselves."

As for what will happen, it will be one of three things. She will continue to waste her time and money dabbling with med school admissions and not succeeding until she runs out of time and money. Or, she will realize that she can't waltz into med school, and she will give up and go do something else with her life because she's not committed to medicine. Or, she will realize that she can't waltz into med school, get her act together, and assemble a competitive app/apply strategically/prepare for interviews properly because she decides this is something she really wants. As her sibling, you know which of those three outcomes is more likely than any of us do.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

On top of everything else, she is hindered but unrealistic goals. Her MCAT for a MD/PhD program is well below the average, which I think is 34. If she's that determined to become a doctor, she'll need to prove it by retaking the MCAT. Her other strikes: re-app, late application, and too few schools all say red flag.

 

[Goro]

Lotta drama there, OP. Your sister may also be applying to the wrong schools (a 31 MCAT isn't going to get you into Harvard or Yale), or she still may lack the right amount of ECs, like clinical volunteering, or no research and aiming for the research powerhouses.

She may have bombed her interviews, hence the lack of luck there.

To follow up on what my learned colleague Q has said, medical school isn't a reward for people with good grades....no one is entitled to get into medical school simply because they're a good student.

It's very difficult for us to answer your question(s) given that we are getting second/third hand information about an estranged family member.

Bottom line you have already yourself identified several of the potential issues
1) Late application
2) Limited/inadequate number of applications
3) Not enough done in between cycles to substantially improve application

While this is wildly speculative of me, it sounds somewhat like she is just not that passionate about the process - which is often the case when you see someone applying to a very limited number of schools or applying late.

 

[Whyyyyy]

I am shocked at how judgemental and prejudiced people are. Especially of a person of whom they haven't even heard one word from and all they know is actually from an unreliable source. (yes, I am unrealiable because I really don't know my sister all too well.)

To those who think she is lazy and entitled, are totally wrong. If anything, I believe she is the opposite of that.

If anyone wanted to call someone those adjectives, it should be me, but even I try.
I guess efforts mean nothing?

 

[Whyyyyy]

The careless sayings of strangers on the internet who have the GIFT.

 

[Whyyyyy]

Agree with all of the above.

OP, medical school isn't something most people can waltz into. Even the "least competitive" med school is still very competitive, simply because there are more people who want to attend med school than there are seats for them all. So unlike college admissions, if your sister is dabbling with her med school apps, odds are good that she won't be successful. That's a good thing. Medical school is not a place for people to pass the time while they "find themselves."

As for what will happen, it will be one of three things. She will continue to waste her time and money dabbling with med school admissions and not succeeding until she runs out of time and money. Or, she will realize that she can't waltz into med school, and she will give up and go do something else with her life because she's not committed to medicine. Or, she will realize that she can't waltz into med school, get her act together, and assemble a competitive app/apply strategically/prepare for interviews properly because she decides this is something she really wants. As her sibling, you know which of those three outcomes is more likely than any of us do.

What is said is very judgemental of a person you don't even know. All your infomation comes from someone who also doesn't really know and yet she is criticized for flaws she may not even have.
She is not waltzing into as you assume, she has been working hard. :/ I don't understand how you imply that she is careless and entitled. She may have been a bit overconfident in her abilities aiming for a md/phd at first but she quickly learned her lesson the first time around. -_- As for why I have difficulty understanding is because most people on this forum and the stats agree that she has the necessary gpa and mcat score to get into medical. I don't see the difference between her and the people accepted.
Why is it immediately assumed she's not commited? Being a doctor is really what she wants to do, she has a bioenginering degree she could do something else but she wants to become a doctor. ;/ She's even commited to going to a masters degree program at georgetown to improve her application even though it'll cost a lot. -_-
Why is she wasting her money in her efforts? How is that different from anyone else in the forum? So getting rejected once or twice means you should quit on your dreams forever? -_-

Honestly, I have no idea who you are describing. However, your lack of infomation does not excuse negative bias and prejudice. Even with the caveat at the end, there is a general negative attitude in the post that I find offensive. Perhaps I'm too sensitive?

 

[Whyyyyy]

It's very difficult for us to answer your question(s) given that we are getting second/third hand information about an estranged family member.

Bottom line you have already yourself identified several of the potential issues
1) Late application
2) Limited/inadequate number of applications
3) Not enough done in between cycles to substantially improve application

While this is wildly speculative of me, it sounds somewhat like she is just not that passionate about the process - which is often the case when you see someone applying to a very limited number of schools or applying late.

1. Her application was late last time but not this time.
2. Unknown but probable. She's doesn't want to spend too much money or leave the area.
3. Unknown but possibly since I think she wrote off the failure last time as it merely her applying late lol.

Thank you for being objective and judgemental although you didnt really give me any insight I did not already know. You basically rephrased what I said.

 

[Whyyyyy]

On top of everything else, she is hindered but unrealistic goals. Her MCAT for a MD/PhD program is well below the average, which I think is 34. If she's that determined to become a doctor, she'll need to prove it by retaking the MCAT. Her other strikes: re-app, late application, and too few schools all say red flag.

I think she already gave up on a MD PHD program and I believe realistically aiming for a MD program, or is that not realistic?. Is it really such a crime to think you could do more than you could, but then learned that you couldnt so you adapted?
She only applied late last year and she learned her lesson. She applied on time this time. Can't people make a careless mistake?
I don't understand way applying to too few schools is a red flag. I'm not sure how many but she said she spent a lot of money on applications and i remember the number 20? Is that too low?
She's not applying to prestigious schools as many wrongly assume. She mainly just wants to go to the in state medical school and is applying in the states nearby as well.
Why do these red flags as you label them outweigh her strengths? Can you answer my question and explain to me instead of what I already know or misunderstandings?

 

[Whyyyyy]

Lotta drama there, OP. Your sister may also be applying to the wrong schools (a 31 MCAT isn't going to get you into Harvard or Yale), or she still may lack the right amount of ECs, like clinical volunteering, or no research and aiming for the research powerhouses.

She may have bombed her interviews, hence the lack of luck there.

To follow up on what my learned colleague Q has said, medical school isn't a reward for people with good grades....no one is entitled to get into medical school simply because they're a good student.

1.She's not applying to prestigious schools as many wrongly assume. She mainly just wants to go to the in state medical school and is applying in the states nearby as well.
2. Her ECs are unknown to all of us. Therefore unjudgable.
3. That could be the case, but she is pretty sociable. I don't know why she would have bombed the interviews. She never indicated that she did.
4. Are you saying: "it doesn't matter how hard you work or great of a person you are, medical school is based on luck" (talent and general luck)
Or are you assuming that my sister only has good grades? If so, Get off your soapbox because No, she works hard just like everybody else maybe even harder. Not that I am claiming that, I just dont understand how anyone could write off a person as just being their grades.

 

[Whyyyyy]

It's also possible that her MCAT and GPA have been inflated through your game of telephone. Unfortunately, adcoms don't round up scores like your mother!

Generally, those numbers would be competitive for MD. However, only applying to dual programs may be limiting her chances.

I know for certain her GPA is higher than a 3.7 and her Mcat at least a 31.
yeah, I don't know if she gave up on the dream... but I think she mainly just wants to get into an MD program now.
Thanks for the humor. :3

 

[QofQuimica]

You're very judgemental of a person you don't even know. All your infomation comes from someone who also doesn't really know and yet you criticise her for flaws she most likely does not have. She is not waltzing into, she has been working hard. :/ I don't understand your reason for seeing my sister as careless and entitled.

I'm not criticizing her at all. I never said she was careless or entitled; *you* said those things (as well as that she lacks any compassion, which, quite frankly, I'd be pretty upset with my sister if she ever said something like that about me on a public forum!).

She may have been a bit overconfident in her abilities aiming for a md/phd at first but she quickly learned her lesson the first time around. -_-

Has she? Then how do you explain the second unsuccessful app season?

As for why I have difficulty understanding is because most people on this forum and the stats agree that she has the necessary gpa and mcat score to get into medical. I don't see the difference between her and the people accepted.

I agree with you that her stats are competitive for medical school also. And I haven't seen her app, so you're right, I can't comment specifically on it. Maybe she has some red flag we don't know about. But you're saying you don't think she does. And while I've never met your sister, I *did* sit on an adcom for four years, so I have some general insight into why "competitive" candidates get rejected from medical school. You asked in your OP and again here what those reasons were because you didn't understand it. Most of them come down to professionalism issues or a perceived lack of commitment to a career in medicine, as evidenced by subpar ECs, lukewarm LORs, poorly written essays, poor app strategy, poor interview performance, or some combination thereof. Unless you think your sister has professionalism issues, lack of demonstrated commitment to medicine is what we're left with.

I don't understand why you immediately assume she's no commited.

Because she's smart, and she's not a girl who normally fails at things once, let alone twice, when she applies herself. Right?

Being a doctor is really what she wants to do,

Being a doctor is what she told *you* she wants to do. But after all this time of estrangement, how well do you really know your sister's true dreams?

she has a bioenginering degree she could do something else but she wants to become a doctor. ;/ She's even commited to going to a masters degree program at georgetown to improve her application even though it'll cost a lot. -_-
Why is she wasting her money in her efforts?

Because it isn't addressing the problem. We agreed already that her stats are good, right? An SMP is intended to help people with low grades improve their competitiveness for medical school. Doing one is a waste of time and money for someone like your sister who already has excellent grades in a tough major.

How is that different from you or anyone else in the forum?

It's not. We're all subject to the same considerations while applying.

So getting rejected once or twice means you should quit on your dreams forever? -_-

I didn't say that, either. But you and I don't agree on whether medicine is likely your sister's true dream.

I'm the last person to say it's one shot as a college senior or else nothing. I was a nontrad who went to med school in my thirties. But when I applied, I took it very seriously and gave it my best effort. And I was 100% committed to getting in the first time. I would argue that all applicants should approach their apps with that mindset. Applying to medical school is time-consuming, expensive, and an emotional roller coaster. It's bad enough doing it once. Twice is worse. No one should have to suffer through it three or more times. If you don't succeed the first time, some major introspection and an overhaul of the app, the app strategy, or both, is in order.

Honestly, I have no idea who you are describing. However, your lack of infomation does not excuse your negative bias and prejudice.

Well, I might be wrong. But I still think you don't know your sister's true dreams as well as you think you do.

 

[Goro]

No interviewee would know. An interviewer would.
3. That could be the case, but she is pretty sociable. I don't know why she would have bombed the interviews. She never indicated that she did.

You're the one who stated that your sister has the stats for medical school, and that you were ignorant of what her ECs are. What I'm saying is that stats aren't enough, stats + ECs are, and that's only what get's you to the interview. Please restrain your ignorance of the application process. If you sister wants or needs advice, let her come her and we'll gladly give her that.
4. Are you saying: "it doesn't matter how hard you work or great of a person you are, medical school is based on luck" (talent and general luck)
Or are you assuming that my sister only has good grades? If so, Get off your soapbox because No, she works hard just like everybody else maybe even harder. Not that I am claiming that, I just dont understand how anyone could write off a person as just being their grades.[/QUOTE]

 

[Whyyyyy]

No interviewee would know. An interviewer would.
3. That could be the case, but she is pretty sociable. I don't know why she would have bombed the interviews. She never indicated that she did.

You're the one who stated that your sister has the stats for medical school, and that you were ignorant of what her ECs are. What I'm saying is that stats aren't enough, stats + ECs are, and that's only what get's you to the interview. Please restrain your ignorance of the application process. If you sister wants or needs advice, let her come her and we'll gladly give her that.
4. Are you saying: "it doesn't matter how hard you work or great of a person you are, medical school is based on luck" (talent and general luck)
Or are you assuming that my sister only has good grades? If so, Get off your soapbox because No, she works hard just like everybody else maybe even harder. Not that I am claiming that, I just dont understand how anyone could write off a person as just being their grades.

[/QUOTE]
This isnt really for advice. But to try to satisfy my curiosity.
Okay youre telling me the main reasons why is that her stats+Ecs aren't good enough for the med schools she's applying too?
Also restraint.

 

[Whyyyyy]

Well, I might be wrong. But I still think you don't know your sister's true dreams as well as you think you do.

Well, I don't think you know my sisters dreams at all.
Anyways, maybe there was some miscommunication and misunderstanding but your phrasing of things were offensive, now it's better but the way you were saying things before weren't the clear or fair.
QUOTE: I agree with you that her stats are competitive for medical school also. And I haven't seen her app, so you're right, I can't comment specifically on it. Maybe she has some red flag we don't know about. But you're saying you don't think she does. And while I've never met your sister, I *did* sit on an adcom for four years, so I have some general insight into why "competitive" candidates get rejected from medical school. You asked in your OP and again here what those reasons were because you didn't understand it. Most of them come down to professionalism issues or a perceived lack of commitment to a career in medicine, as evidenced by subpar ECs, lukewarm LORs, poorly written essays, poor app strategy, poor interview performance, or some combination thereof. Unless you think your sister has professionalism issues, lack of demonstrated commitment to medicine is what we're left with.:QUOTE
Can you see the difference between this quote?:
"
QUOTE: OP, medical school isn't something most people can waltz into. Even the "least competitive" med school is still very competitive, simply because there are more people who want to attend med school than there are seats for them all. So unlike college admissions, if your sister is dabbling with her med school apps, odds are good that she won't be successful. That's a good thing. Medical school is not a place for people to pass the time while they "find themselves."

As for what will happen, it will be one of three things. She will continue to waste her time and money dabbling with med school admissions and not succeeding until she runs out of time and money. Or, she will realize that she can't waltz into med school, and she will give up and go do something else with her life because she's not committed to medicine. Or, she will realize that she can't waltz into med school, get her act together, and assemble a competitive app/apply strategically/prepare for interviews properly because she decides this is something she really wants. As her sibling, you know which of those three outcomes is more likely than any of us do.QUOTE
"
Well, thanks for finally answering my question. But still you know, you shouldn't use the logical fallacy False dilemma: QUOTE" Unless you think your sister has professionalism issues, lack of demonstrated commitment to medicine is what we're left with.:QUOTE

 

[Whyyyyy]

Sigh... I wish people could be a bit more courteous instead of critical even if they have recognition. :/
I'm sorry if I got a bit emotional, however I did try to censor myself and I did edit it before you recieved the message, but I finished ALL the editting by 6:20 pm as dated, when the 1st reply after came at Today at 6:55 PM
But honestly, I mean what I say, although I think the conveyance could be better. Ultimately, it seems that... honestly people have too much pride.

 

[hmockingbird]

Well, you did ask for criticism for your sister's app...

It's not a criticism of whether your sister is committed personally but whether her application SHOWS that. Based on the limited second-hand information, her stats (GPA/MCAT) do seem competitive, so that leaves only the other options Q and Goro explained.

 

[Goro]

Too little information to give you a concrete answer. Sorry. Until you talk to your sister and get some more info about what's she's done, we can only nebulously speculate.

This isnt really for advice. But to try to satisfy my curiosity.
Okay youre telling me the main reasons why is that her stats+Ecs aren't good enough for the med schools she's applying too?
Also restraint.[/QUOTE]

 

[deleted480308]

OP, relax...send your sister to the forum if she wants help

 

[Stagg737]

Clearly your sister's stats and commitment seem outstanding to you, but they are not at many medical schools. What most people who aren't familiar with applying to med school don't realize is that the average accepted student at MD schools has about a 3.7 GPA and a 32 MCAT. Additionally, average and below average students almost always have outstanding ECs such as strong leadership positions, significant shadowing experience (50+ hours), and hundreds or even thousands of hours with volunteering and clinical exposure. Remember,these are the 'average' applicants. Comparing your sister to those applicants, she would look about average, maybe slightly better in terms of her GPA and MCAT and may be weaker with ECs (we can't judge since we don't know what they are...). At some MD schools she is well below average won't stand a chance (Harvard, JH, Wash U etc.), at others she should be competitive. Plus there are always the intangibles to think about. Did the people reading her personal statement and essays like what they read? Do her goals match up with the mission of the schools she's applying to? Is her application free of red flags? Is she a strong interviewer? If the answer to any of those questions is no, then a school could easily justify rejecting her. Keep in mind that in last year 690,281 people applied to med schools and only 20,055 were accepted (according to AMCAS). If you do the math it means that 1 out of 34 applicants (just under 3%) were accepted. You should also remember that those applicants aren't just average high school or college students, they're the smartest in the country. So just because she is smart or hard working doesn't guarantee anything, she has to be the very best of those outstanding students to realistically have a chance without just hoping to get lucky.

I'm not saying she is a bad applicant, or that she should give up. As someone who wasn't accepted until my 3rd application cycle, I know how much it sucks to get rejected. I also know how frustrating it is to bust my butt and watch people that I knew were weaker applicants get accepted while I struggled to get interviews. Applying to med schools sucks, and many people will attest that who gets accepted and who gets rejected doesn't always make sense. However, the best thing to do (especially as a re-applicant) is to sit down, be overly critical of her application, correct any weaknesses she can find, and apply broadly to schools that she is competitive at, not just places she wants to go.

 

[Dfbsny67]

You shouldn't worry so much and let your sister look out for herself! She's obviously very capable and has good numbers, I doubt most people on this forum feel bad for her or you lol. This is a difficult, competitive process that most people cant even undertake successfully; there is nothing wrong with your sister and no need to "worry" b/c she hasn't gotten into an MD program! This is seriously the most entitled thing I have ever read in my life. Also, if she does actually lack compassion IRL it could explain her rejection (esp. considering her numbers); she should probably consider herself lucky if this scenario did occur. If not primarily motivated by 'bigger-picture' concepts then she'll probably be miserable in the long term. So anyway, just chill and let her be! Maybe you can use your free time to correct the numerous grammar errors in your post, or just ask your sister to do it! ;D

 

[Dfbsny67]

I am shocked at how judgemental and prejudiced people are. Especially of a person of whom they haven't even heard one word from and all they know is actually from an unreliable source. (yes, I am unrealiable because I really don't know my sister all too well.)

To those who think she is lazy and entitled, are totally wrong. If anything, I believe she is the opposite of that.

If anyone wanted to call someone those adjectives, it should be me, but even I try.
I guess efforts mean nothing?

SMH

Whoa, RU serious? IDK what ur problem is or why you are posting here, you clearly have no idea how to respond appropriately to any of the people trying to give you advice. Those posts are tame anyway, growing up I would have considered a full day without harsher scolding a win. The real problem is your entitled attitude, inability to accept constructive criticism and general intolerance for anyone who doesnt sing your praises. Glad this post is closed.

 

[BeancheBlanco]

right, "your sister".

 

[gladlyfocused]

Whoa...talk about unable to handle criticism. You asked for help and you were receiving it...I feel you are asking for "your sister" when in reality it's for you. No one can be SO offended by the responses if it were about someone else and they really wanted to bring them success and help.