Why is 3rd and 4th year tuition equal to 1st and 2nd year?

[JDMcNugent]

This is just a question of curiosity. I understand that it is expensive to run a school with paying faculty, admin, support staff, overhead, infrastructure, etc. If you are away on rotations third and fourth year, why are you still paying the same amount as a first and second year student who are mostly utilizing all of the campus and its resources while you are away and mostly interacting with your attending and campus staff who help with setting up your rotation sites?

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[RadsonRads]

I've never thought of this until now. I've spent my entire 4th yr about 800miles away with hardly any contact to my school for an entire yr. Not really sure why I paid $42k

 

[preDoGuy24]

Because they can charge it, if you don't pay it someone else will. You are essentially purchasing the ability to take board exams and graduate with degree in hand.

 

[Ibn Alnafis MD]

There's nothing about med school that makes it worth what it costs. Everything you learn there, you can learn on your own, maybe with the exception of gross anatomy since you actually need a cadaver (or don't?). In fact, I feel sometimes that the curriculum gets in the way of properly learning the material and adequately preparing for boards.

Like the guy above said, you are essentially paying for the access to residency.

 

[Mehd School]

I asked a faculty member this, and what they said generally made sense, but I still doubt the numbers.

I go to a private school where tuition is $40k/year, so $160k of tuition for my degree. He stated that in reality the first two years of school cost about $60k and the last two years about $30k, and it's just easier to get flat tuition over the 4 years.

Those were the figures he used, and I think he was just using them as an example but you get the point.

 

[JDMcNugent]

I kinda assumed all of the above and I suppose it makes sense if they essentially just spread out the cost of tuition over 4 years to make the "cost" less confusing.

 

[Buckeye1992]

Well my school doesn't pay for rotations so I do kind of feel ripped off. But w/e it is what it is.

 

[MedNation907]

I remember hearing at one of my interviews that the school covers insurance costs during those years. I think, it was too long ago to fully remember.

 

[SurgeDO]

because the worst type of people run medical schools--shells of people who have thrown out all self-respect and integrity in pursuit of the dollar. i hope to never be like them.

 

[Flushot]

I'm another graduate of a school that doesn't pay for rotations. Our clinical ed department is also our most understaffed too, further questioning the price tag of 3rd and 4th year. At that point, it was pretty much extortion because turning back now was more or less too impractical to be possible.

 

[thepoopologist]

Because why not? Raises for everyone!

 

[Goro]

Are you aware that those attending, preceptors and mentors do kindly volunteer their time; they expect to be paid. Then throw in all the insurance, and logistics that hospitals and clinics have to do just to let you walk in the door, much less and actually touch patients. Then there's the support staff of your Clinical Deans keeping an eye on you!

This is just a question of curiosity. I understand that it is expensive to run a school with paying faculty, admin, support staff, overhead, infrastructure, etc. If you are away on rotations third and fourth year, why are you still paying the same amount as a first and second year student who are mostly utilizing all of the campus and its resources while you are away and mostly interacting with your attending and campus staff who help with setting up your rotation sites?

 

[sunealoneal]

I'm another graduate of a school that doesn't pay for rotations. Our clinical ed department is also our most understaffed too, further questioning the price tag of 3rd and 4th year. At that point, it was pretty much extortion because turning back now was more or less too impractical to be possible.

Who pays the preceptors if not the school? Do the ones in your system volunteer?

 

[Flushot]

Who pays the preceptors if not the school? Do the ones in your system volunteer?

From my understanding, the only ones that get paid are ones that give sporadic lectures on campus or ones that are highly sought after in a particular region. The payments/donations are very meager if they're not on proper faculty. So, the majority volunteer and get access to the school's library, CME credit and get to add something spiffy to their resume. That's really about it.

 

[sunealoneal]

Wow. Maybe I'm overestimating how much work preceptors have.

 

[JDMcNugent]

Are you aware that those attending, preceptors and mentors do kindly volunteer their time; they expect to be paid. Then throw in all the insurance, and logistics that hospitals and clinics have to do just to let you walk in the door, much less and actually touch patients. Then there's the support staff of your Clinical Deans keeping an eye on you!

Well I know that the preceptors likely get paid but never thought it would be a substantial amount and I also assumed that the hospitals and clinics would be the ones generally collecting any money from the schools to allow students to rotate. I never really guessed that it would cost a years worth of tuition to cover rotations for things like preceptor payment, logistics, and insurance.

But as someone mentioned, I suppose it is possible that the schools just figure out what it really "costs" for everything and divide it over four years and basically just charge a set amount each year, regardless if your on campus or away on clerkship.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[abolt18]

Because they can and because money.

 

[preDoGuy24]

Are you aware that those attending, preceptors and mentors do kindly volunteer their time; they expect to be paid. Then throw in all the insurance, and logistics that hospitals and clinics have to do just to let you walk in the door, much less and actually touch patients. Then there's the support staff of your Clinical Deans keeping an eye on you!

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here? Attendings aren't paid by my school for taking students, rotation sites are not paid, and students do the vast majority of footwork setting up rotations (from student led dividing up required rotations to scheduling all of your own electives and selectives) we have one clinical admin person per 3rd and 4th year class. The cost of all of these things are not very transparent, but I am skeptical it is in the 30-40k tuition and fee range.

 

[Goro]

Then your school is definitely one of the more greedy ones, if your training is pro bono at that level.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here? Attendings aren't paid by my school for taking students, rotation sites are not paid, and students do the vast majority of footwork setting up rotations (from student led dividing up required rotations to scheduling all of your own electives and selectives) we have one clinical admin person per 3rd and 4th year class. The cost of all of these things are not very transparent, but I am skeptical it is in the 30-40k tuition and fee range.

 

[hallowmann]

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here? Attendings aren't paid by my school for taking students, rotation sites are not paid, and students do the vast majority of footwork setting up rotations (from student led dividing up required rotations to scheduling all of your own electives and selectives) we have one clinical admin person per 3rd and 4th year class. The cost of all of these things are not very transparent, but I am skeptical it is in the 30-40k tuition and fee range.

They also pay a handful of clinical deans (probably not a ton) and cover our insurance policies ($1mil/$3mil) that are required by the hospitals.

The thing is, how much does that really amount to? I doubt much. Even if they did pay for rotations, I doubt it would be more than ~$12k/student. Where's the other $20-$45k/student (depending on the school) going?

 

[Ibn Alnafis MD]

The level of tuition at most private medical schools, Osteopathic and Allopathic, is disgusting. I realize that if you are a private school and receive no subsidy from the state, you need to charge enough to make ends meet. However, why charge 50-60k/year while there exist other private schools that do it for less than 30k/year?

 

[jw3600]

Because they can and because money.

There are actually posts after this one?

 

[nardini46]

#bigmoney #cashmoney #richmoney

 

[MedNation907]

OUHCOM's clinical years actually increase in tuition...
Besides #cashmoney of course, it makes me wonder how expensive it really is to 'send' students out for rotations (so I guess primarily malpractice insurance?)

 

[MedNation907]

While getting Titers done, I asked my family physician about his practice (he's a very old man) and he said malpractice insurance when he started was $2000, and is now $20,000. So I guess I can see how $$ builds quick for clinical education, but I wish the breakdown was more transparent.

 

[preDoGuy24]

While getting Titers done, I asked my family physician about his practice (he's a very old man) and he said malpractice insurance when he started was $2000, and is now $20,000. So I guess I can see how $$ builds quick for clinical education, but I wish the breakdown was more transparent.

Malpractice for a medical student is not even in the same universe as that of the attending...I have never heard of a suit being brought against a student(I'm sure it has happened), even residents I have known who were named in a suit were dropped from it before any litigation started, leaving just the attendings going forward.

Malpractice lawyers want easy wins, blaming a medical student (even if they majorly F up) just won't fly. We just are not ultimately responsible for what happens to our patients at our level.

 

[W19]

Professional school in general is a scam.




/end of thread.

 

[NontradCA]

Because **** you.

 

[hallowmann]

While getting Titers done, I asked my family physician about his practice (he's a very old man) and he said malpractice insurance when he started was $2000, and is now $20,000. So I guess I can see how $$ builds quick for clinical education, but I wish the breakdown was more transparent.

Does he deliver babies? That's a ton for an FM doc if he doesn't deliver babies. Of all the docs, those paying the most for malpractice are surgeons, anesthesiologists, and OB/GYN docs. Most doctors actually don't pay a ton annually for malpractice (<$10,000) in most cases. It does vary a ton based on area (and if they've been sued before) though. For an OB/GYN in one state/city it might be $30-$40k/yr, in another, it might be >$130k/yr.

Obviously, med students pay even less because not only are they supervised by other physicians, their scope and ability to practice are immensely limited even compared to residents.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

The level of tuition at most private medical schools, Osteopathic and Allopathic, is disgusting. I realize that if you are a private school and receive no subsidy from the state, you need to charge enough to make ends meet. However, why charge 50-60k/year while there exist other private schools that do it for less than 30k/year?

The best part is how we paid 52k for exactly the same classes podiatry took for 30k.

I like Goro, but come on. We all know that schools overprice because they can and not because of some insurance or preceptor payment.

 

[Flushot]

It's pretty clear that it's pure money they want and what better way than to siphon it from students who have no choice but to carry on. All around us during those 4 years, they were building and/or advancing the campus for the other programs, mostly the dental school and optometry school. Whether it was the 24/7 AC bill or another story to the parking garage, there was always a 'need' for money. I can only guess what went on behind closed doors.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

This is just a question of curiosity. I understand that it is expensive to run a school with paying faculty, admin, support staff, overhead, infrastructure, etc. If you are away on rotations third and fourth year, why are you still paying the same amount as a first and second year student who are mostly utilizing all of the campus and its resources while you are away and mostly interacting with your attending and campus staff who help with setting up your rotation sites?

What is all of this crazy talk about paying the same for years 3 and 4 as years 1 and 2. Lucky bastards...my 4th year will be my most expensive year of school--since my school invariably raises tuition every year.