Why is the Caribbean so bad....????

[GypsyHummus]

Podiatrists are surgeons. How much do you expect them to be paid?

Realistically, a pod can make 150-200k, about the same as Family Med or Internal, but they are not surgeons. What do most surgeons make? 350k+. Ortho can make 500k+.

There's no protest; just an observation that paying Podiatrists like Orthopedists or Vascular or General surgeons doesn't make much sense when their scope is so much smaller and their training so much less.

But I will admit that much of what our government does doesn't make sense.

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[SLC]

Podiatrists are surgeons. How much do you expect them to be paid?

Realistically, a pod can make 150-200k, about the same as Family Med or Internal, but they are not surgeons. What do most surgeons make? 350k+. Ortho can make 500k+.

Podiatrists are surgeons, but so are dentists. They're both very specialized surgeons that only operate on one small area and nowhere else. Neither have training to manage problems outside their area of focus. Think of them as purpose built professionals. I expect them to be paid like dentists. And the average dental salary is around $150-$200k. Seems podiatry is right where it should be IMO.

I'd go to a podiatrist just as readily as an orthopod if I needed foot or ankle surgery though, I wouldn't even think twice.

That's all I'm going to say about this though; we're way off topic now.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Certainly,

It is this forum where the scope and terms of podiatrists are discussed, i.e the source: Most Podiatrist Friendly States?

The above discusses the push for pods to be physicians in the eyes of the law for reimbursement purposes. There is even a recording of the panel discussing it. The only doc that was opposed to it was an Orthopedic doc ironically enough.

In regards to your theory of medical school making it possible to do residency, would you then agree if a pod school takes the same classes as DO students, they are just as prepared to do a residency of equivalent rigor? There is a difference btw pod residencies in terms of quality, maybe the ones from AZCOM and DMU get first dibs on those, I would have to do more research.

I do agree that the Pod boards are not as complex as STEPS or COMLEX (still really hard though, we still need to know all of medicine), but i have heard from multiple DO students that the COMLEX is easier than the USMLE. Does this make a DO who took just the COMLEX less of a doctor than an MD or DO that took the USMLE? I suppose thats why everyone is merging residencies now.

Further, I shouldn't speak on topics about Pod residency too much, simply because I don't know that process yet. I will summon the expertise of @bobtheweazel and others on the pod forum for topics such as those.

In any event, one should go to Pod school before contemplating the Caribbean. Pod school at least gives a decent chance of practicing medicine in the United States.

Sure, but what does this have to do with payment or equal standing in the eyes of the law? A physician's real training happens during residency, certainly not in M1 and M2. The medical school years, lay the foundation that makes residency training possible. I've rotated with NP and PA students before as a med student; and I've taught them on rotations as a resident. I've even had pharmacy students along on rotations as a resident. This doesn't mean any of them are the same as doctors, nor are they trying to be.


And Podiatrists don't have the same (or really even close) residency training we do. I know, we have a podiatry residency in my hospital.



I'll point out here that your boards are not anywhere as in depth as the USMLE or COMLEX. But they don't need to be, you won't be practicing the vast majority of medicine.



Those things are extremely trivial compared to what a physician needs to know. We have PA's and NP's, students even, who place lines, intubate, and perform complete physicals.

Physicians earn their salt by having strong diagnostic skills, and broad knowledge. They do it by knowing what to do when a patient doesn't have a clear-cut diagnosis or treatment plan. Anyone with a few years of PA school can practice basic medicine, and do it fairly well.



I guess the last question I'll ask is this:

Aren't podiatrists already paid physician wages? Seems the average salaries for surgical podiatrists is in line with Primary care physician salaries.

I've been assuming you meant pay patient with surgical sub-specialists; to which I again say "never gonna happen". I'm open to being proven wrong, but I just can't see it happening.

You seem sure though; can you cite a source that shows this is being considered/discussed?

 

[iceclimb12]

Certainly,

It is this forum where the scope and terms of podiatrists are discussed, i.e the source: Most Podiatrist Friendly States?

The above discusses the push for pods to be physicians in the eyes of the law for reimbursement purposes. There is even a recording of the panel discussing it. The only doc that was opposed to it was an Orthopedic doc ironically enough.

In regards to your theory of medical school making it possible to do residency, would you then agree if a pod school takes the same classes as DO students, they are just as prepared to do a residency of equivalent rigor? There is a difference btw pod residencies in terms of quality, maybe the ones from AZCOM and DMU get first dibs on those, I would have to do more research.

I do agree that the Pod boards are not as complex as STEPS or COMLEX (still really hard though, we still need to know all of medicine), but i have heard from multiple DO students that the COMLEX is easier than the USMLE. Does this make a DO who took just the COMLEX less of a doctor than an MD or DO that took the USMLE? I suppose thats why everyone is merging residencies now.

Further, I shouldn't speak on topics about Pod residency too much, simply because I don't know that process yet. I will summon the expertise of @bobtheweazel and others on the pod forum for topics such as those.

In any event, one should go to Pod school before contemplating the Caribbean. Pod school at least gives a decent chance of practicing medicine in the United States.

Incoming D.O. student here... so I'm not really entitled to an opinion here. I like lurking here because I have nothing better to do right now. But some thoughts.

I think (others can correct me if I'm wrong) that D.O. students find the USMLE more difficult not because they don't know the material, but because their schools focus on taking and passing the COMLEX and not the USMLE (with some exceptions). As I understand it, there are some differences between the tests in the way questions are written, etc. Not a humongous difference, I think, but enough that it might throw some students for a loop. To be fair, though, 80% on COMLEX doesn't necessarily equal 80% on USMLE, because the percentile in USMLE is from a much larger pool of qualified test takers. So in that respect, USMLE may be harder?

edited shorter

 

[SLC]

I think (others can correct me if I'm wrong) that D.O. students find the USMLE more difficult not because they don't know the material, but because their schools focus on taking and passing the COMLEX and not the USMLE (with some exceptions). As I understand it, there are some differences between the tests in the way questions are written, etc. Not a humongous difference, I think, but enough that it might throw some students for a loop. To be fair, though, 80% on COMLEX doesn't necessarily equal 80% on USMLE, because the percentile in USMLE is from a much larger pool of qualified test takers. So in that respect, USMLE may be harder?

More or less this. And I'll qualify my comment by saying that I actually found COMLEX to be a more difficult test (and I did better on USMLE than COMLEX).

The main differences are the addition of OMM which the USMLE doesn't test; and the quality of the questions. It was the question quality that, for me at least, made the USMLE easier. I could read a question and I'd either know the answer or I wouldn't. But I always knew if I knew it. On COMLEX I frequently read a question and thought "WTF are they trying to get at here?"

I also don't believe the DPM boards test all of medicine, and certainly not to the level of mastery that MD/DO boards do. I've heard this from DPM students and DO students who tutored DPM students for their boards.

 

[GypsyHummus]

This is still somewhat the case, especially for private practices, specifically podiatry practices. There are insulting offers in the 80k. Fortunately, most students aren't dumb enough to take them.

The horizon looks much better for pods. Hospitals are starting to catch wind of pods being able to bring in lots of money, especially for the diabetic population. Multi specialty groups also really love pods. Ortho, depending on the practice likes pods as well, as lots of othor docs don't wanna deal with feet.

Realistically, a new pod starting out at the hospital will gross around 150k and after ten years prolly end up around 220k to 250k. A few might break the 300k+ threshold, depending on how busy they are.

They're not. Majority of the jobs are in private practice, not in hospitals where you make the big $. Pods eat their young and private practice offers go as low as 80k. The fact that these kind of offers even exist is terrifying and the applicants know it, explaining the applicant crisis this year and the yearly push for parity. Yeah some pods make primary care salaries, but no one in pod school can confidently say that's what they'd be making once they graduate. Physician salaries are infinitely more predictable.

I looked into this career extensively when my low MCAT wasn't getting me into DO schools. The financial instability didn't do it for me. I have nothing against Pods getting more recognition, higher salaries etc. but applicants should be aware of what they're buying into.

 

[aformerstudent]

Don't you feel that if the podiatry outlook was so great, more people would go into it considering every doctor I am speaking to is saying that the best doctors are leaving clinical medicine?

 

[GypsyHummus]

Not a lot of people know about podiatry.

Don't you feel that if the podiatry outlook was so great, more people would go into it considering every doctor I am speaking to is saying that the best doctors are leaving clinical medicine?

 

[GypsyHummus]

Did you end up getting into Med school? I'd rather be a podiatrist then not a doctor at all.

None of that mattered to me to be honest. I asked myself a simple question: What's the most likely Podiatry job i'll get and how much will i earn? The answer was not hospital and 150k. May be hospitals and more ortho groups will start hiring more pods in the future as you're hoping, but as it stands now, these jobs are not the norm. I guess i'm not as optimistic about the future of Podiatry as you are. I didn't have it in me to invest my time and energy on a career which in my opinion has questionable financial returns currently.
I'll leave it at that. I feel like i've derailed the thread enough. If Pod is something you see yourself doing and you're confident with the ROI, then go for it.

 

[gyngyn]

You are good enough to practice medicine as a PA, not as a MD. What a system!

She wasn't even bitter. She tried to Match (and SOAP) three times. She just moved forward with a new plan that has succeeded.

 

[Prehealth1011]

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[Ho0v-man]

I have no idea why anyone would be naive enough to think that the government is all of a sudden going to say "Hey, you know how podiatrists are only able to practice one narrow area of medicine/surgery and can't actually do anything else? We should double their pay for no reason."

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I have no idea why anyone would be naive enough to think that the government is all of a sudden going to say "Hey, you know how podiatrists are only able to practice one narrow area of medicine/surgery and can't actually do anything else? We should double their pay for no reason."

I would like everyone to just say that we had a 3 page long discussion on midlevels in response to this and not actually go through with the eye sore.