Why not become a doctor for the money?

[nysegop]

If a lawyer is billing $300/hr, that means they have a net salary $624,000. That's just not based in reality in any sense for the average lawyer.

Lawyers often do charge that much, sometimes more. But

A. They take vacations.
B. They aren't billing people all the time
C. Not all that money goes directly to the lawyer:
-Secretary's salary.
-Office Space
-Legal fees
-etc.


Keep in mind with law salaries are highly variable. A top corporate copyright lawyer could be earning well over $50 Million. A lawyer for the ACLU might only make $75,000.

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[Gauss44]

If a lawyer is billing $300/hr, that means they have a net salary $624,000. That's just not based in reality in any sense for the average lawyer.

The question here is, who is an average lawyer. I still believe that $300/hr is in the low range for an hourly rate for a typical partner at a medium to large sized firm (what clients pay).

 

[nysegop]

The question here is, who is an average lawyer. I still believe that $300/hr is in the low range for an hourly rate for a partner at a medium to large sized firm (what clients pay).

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Hourly rates run in that range. This is 1st hand knowledge. Of course, if you work for a firm it gets a cut. Taxes take a cut, etc. Firms (and equity partners) can also earn money from winning cases, sometimes in the millions. Judge awards winning party $x and firm takes a percentage.

This also assumes a mature career. In a firm, attorneys start out as associates and within several years make partner or start their own business.

In finance, there are certainly jobs with a base salary of over $500k. I'm less familiar with that though.

You know how difficult it is for an attorney to make partner in biglaw? It's pretty dang difficult from what I hear. Most associates last something like 5 or 6 years in biglaw and then downshift into something that doesn't make them want to shoot themselves. They don't want to/can't stick around to hit those cush partner salaries. Also, this is all assuming they can get an associates job at all, which people even at the best schools in the country are only getting at something like a 50% rate. If you don't get that big law salary, you're probably stuck in the 50-60k range or unemployed.

If you were a practicing lawyer, please correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

[Gauss44]

You know how difficult it is for an attorney to make partner in biglaw? It's pretty dang difficult from what I hear. Most associates last something like 5 or 6 years in biglaw and then downshift into something that doesn't make them want to shoot themselves. They don't want to/can't stick around to hit those cush partner salaries. Also, this is all assuming they can get an associates job at all, which people even at the best schools in the country are only getting at something like a 50% rate. If you don't get that big law salary, you're probably stuck in the 50-60k range or unemployed.

If you were a practicing lawyer, please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Yes, it can be difficult to make partner. Large firms and mid sized firms that I am familiar with have a fairly even mixture of partners who went to top schools and middle of the road universities. I've never heard of an attorney getting stuck with a 60k job. ...maybe a recent graduate with practically no previous experience, or a wealthy attorney who took a year to volunteer for a good cause. Seasoned attorneys typically make much more. That all being said, I would guess that the unemployment rate for doctors is much lower than for lawyers.

 

[circulus vitios]

The question here is, who is an average lawyer. I still believe that $300/hr is in the low range for an hourly rate for a typical partner at a medium to large sized firm (what clients pay).

To get near the right peak you need to have a top 5 law school education or a family member in a big law firm.

http://www.nalp.org/salarycurve_classof2011

Yes, it can be difficult to make partner. Large firms that I am familiar with have a fairly even mixture of partners who went to top schools and middle of the road universities. I've never heard of an attorney getting stuck with a 60k job. ...maybe a recent graduate with practically no previous experience, or a wealthy attorney who took a year to volunteer for a good cause. Seasoned attorneys typically make much more. That all being said, I would guess that the unemployment rate for doctors is much lower than for lawyers.

How old are these partners you're "familiar with?" The law school job market was a lot different 20 years ago.

 

[Gauss44]

To get near the right peak you need to have a top 5 law school education or a family member in a big law firm.

http://www.nalp.org/salarycurve_classof2011



How old are these partners you're "familiar with?" The law school job market was a lot different 20 years ago.

Those graphs are for recent college graduates. Seasoned attorney salaries are not generally comparable. It's somewhat like comparing a resident's salary.

There is a lot of contradictory information on attorney salaries online as well (different websites say different things).

 

[circulus vitios]

Those graphs are for recent college graduates. Seasoned attorney salaries are not generally comparable. It's like comparing a resident's salary.

There is a lot of contradictory information on attorney salaries online as well.

It's hard to find information but I found this for Florida: https://www.barry.edu/includes/docs/law/83_ATTORNEY SALARIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA.pdf

Mean $106k with 8+ years experience.
Mean $148k with ownership stake (partner, owner, shareholder, etc.)

edit: And here's another for Colorado. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=85794

 

[NickNaylor]

Those graphs are for recent college graduates. Seasoned attorney salaries are not generally comparable. It's like comparing a resident's salary.

There is a lot of contradictory information on attorney salaries online as well.

So you're talking about:

1) seasoned attorneys
2) attorneys in big law firms
3) what attorneys bill rather than what they are paid

Is that what you mean by saying that "$300-500/hr is typical?" You should be a little more clear and qualify what you're saying. Because the segment of the population you are talking about is hardly typical.

 

[nysegop]

Those graphs are for recent college graduates. Seasoned attorney salaries are not generally comparable. It's like comparing a resident's salary.

There is a lot of contradictory information on attorney salaries online as well.

Quite right.

http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Intellectual-Property-Attorney-IV-Salary-Details.aspx


It also depends on what you do as an attorney. Tax attorneys generally make a lot lower salary than intellectual property attorneys. The 90th percentile earn ~$290,000 which is quite comparable to a physician's salary. And lawyers don't have to pay whopping malpractice rates.

 

[Gauss44]

So you're talking about:

1) seasoned attorneys
2) attorneys in big law firms
3) what attorneys bill rather than what they are paid

Is that what you mean by saying that "$300-500/hr is typical?" You should be a little more clear and qualify what you're saying. Because the segment of the population you are talking about is hardly typical.

1. Yes, just like when a you talk about a doctor's salary, you are not referring to residents.
2. No, big and mid-sized firms. I think I said that in my original response, or used "probably" since there's such a wide range of attorneys.
3. Yes, I edited quite a while ago to make that clear.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Ugh. Recent law school graduates are looking at a market entirely different than that seen by older lawyers. It's not at all like comparing residents to attendings. Roads to partner or to a great salary as a lawyer are much, much narrower than they used to be. For those that think law is a great way to roll in cash need to take a few hours and read http://top-law-schools.com/

 

[DJspreadsheet]

Quite right.

http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Intellectual-Property-Attorney-IV-Salary-Details.aspx


It also depends on what you do as an attorney. Tax attorneys generally make a lot lower salary than intellectual property attorneys. The 90th percentile earn ~$290,000 which is quite comparable to a physician's salary. And lawyers don't have to pay whopping malpractice rates.

Physician salary figures are after malpractice, so it's irrelevant. Also your 'rainbows and boners' depiction of the current state of a career in law is rather shocking. The internet is inundated with people screaming on the mountain not to go to law school - for myriad reasons.

 

[WompyWomperton]

 

[nysegop]

Physician salary figures are after malpractice, so it's irrelevant. Also your 'rainbows and boners' depiction of the current state of a career in law is rather shocking. The internet is inundated with people screaming on the mountain not to go to law school - for myriad reasons.

I posted salary data...I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't go to law school. If people want to go to law school, whatever. I don't care.

 

[DJspreadsheet]

I posted salary data...I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't go to law school. If people want to go to law school, whatever. I don't care.

Financials are #1 on the list of reasons not to go into law. Something tells me you don't have a friend that is a recent law grad.

 

[LiamNeesons]

You have been grossly misinformed

I know a lawyer who received thirty percent of a three hundred million dollar class action law suit. His fee is eight hundred per hour.

 

[nysegop]

A family friend charges $500 per hour. He usually only gets about half of that though...

 

[LaughingMan]

Our C-Lawyer charges $300 an hour. We pretty much always pay him full--though a few times I disputed some of the excess phone charges.

Phone Call was like 5 minutes, but was billed as $300 x .5 for a $150. Didn't end up paying if I recall.

 

[touchpause13]

Everything in life is hard. Residency will jade me and I will be bitter. Sure. Medical school was suppose to be my rape with a fire hose and I thought it was easy. Stuff isn't that hard. I recommend people do a second career before they decide to do medicine. Life is life. A job is a job. Just suck it up do it. Come home and chill. You guys make this your life that's why it's so disappointing to you when it doesn't go the way you guys hoped. Majority of the residents I have met have my view. Maybe the people I know are a happier bunch.

Please don't use that word like that. Using rape as a synonym for anything negative you experience is demeaning to actual rape survivors



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[CrimsonKing]

Please don't use that word like that. Using rape as a synonym for anything negative you experience is demeaning to actual rape survivors

Dammit touchpause, must you always be so easily offended?

 

[alerk323]

Medicine does not close any doors, it opens them much more widely. You can still go into business as a doctor, you can still go into administration, consulting, or do legal work. I know physicians who are successful in all of these. As you get older and get through your debt burden, you'll start making the type of salary that gives you the ability to accumulate wealth. Investment opportunities arise. Pharma companies, bio-tech companies and obviously hospital or any healthcare related group (consulting, legal, whatever) all hire doctors. Again I know physicians doing all of the above and work with some personally at my job (healthcare consulting).

You could easily argue that going to med school provides one with significantly more non-medically related opportunities than your friends scrounging around after college.

 

[NickNaylor]

Medicine does not close any doors, it opens them much more widely. You can still go into business as a doctor, you can still go into administration, consulting, or do legal work. I know physicians who are successful in all of these. As you get older and get through your debt burden, you'll start making the type of salary that gives you the ability to accumulate wealth. Investment opportunities arise. Pharma companies, bio-tech companies and obviously hospital or any healthcare related group (consulting, legal, whatever) all hire doctors. Again I know physicians doing all of the above and work with some personally at my job (healthcare consulting).

You could easily argue that going to med school provides one with significantly more non-medically related opportunities than your friends scrounging around after college.

100% agree. For the most part you aren't going to get rich strictly as a clinician, but medicine gives you the means to make more money. As the good man Marx said, capital begets more capital.

 

[goofball]

100% agree. For the most part you aren't going to get rich strictly as a clinician, but medicine gives you the means to make more money. As the good man Marx said, capital begets more capital.

^.

And even if you're stuck as a clinician, it's not the end of the world. You're still doing better than your buddy that got a 3.0 as a Phil major and has been a barista for years.

Please don't use that word like that. Using rape as a synonym for anything negative you experience is demeaning to actual rape survivors



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Sigh...not this again.

Look: different words mean different things to different people. "Rape" is a word that is over 2000 years old, and has changed definitions several times in that period. It still has some of those older definitions (such as: Rape of Nanking). As Wikipedia says:

The word rape itself originates from the Latin verb rapere: to seize or take by force. The word originally had no sexual connotation and is still used generically in English. The history of rape, and the alterations of its meaning, is quite complex.

I guess it speaks for itself.

And nobody is trying to offend you. As I said, different words mean different things to different people, and "rape" is a word that has had and continues to have many meanings.

Who are you to proclaim that some of those meanings hold no merit just because you said so?

 

[touchpause13]

^.

And even if you're stuck as a clinician, it's not the end of the world. You're still doing better than your buddy that got a 3.0 as a Phil major and has been a barista for years.




Sigh...not this again.

Look: different words mean different things to different people. "Rape" is a word that is over 2000 years old, and has changed definitions several times in that period. It still has some of those older definitions (such as: Rape of Nanking). As Wikipedia says:



I guess it speaks for itself.

And nobody is trying to offend you. As I said, different words mean different things to different people, and "rape" is a word that has had and continues to have many meanings.

Who are you to proclaim that some of those meanings hold no merit just because you said so?

A sexual assualt survivor and a trained domestic violence/sexual assualt victim advocate. But obviously I know nothing about the subject so please have wikipedia enlighten me.

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[NickNaylor]

A sexual assualt survivor and a trained domestic violence/sexual assualt victim advocate. But obviously I know nothing about the subject so please have wikipedia enlighten me.

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That doesn't really have anything to do with linguistics...

I agree that using the word "rape" casually is somewhat distasteful, but sensitivity doesn't disprove goof's point.

 

[goofball]

A sexual assualt survivor and a trained domestic violence/sexual assualt victim advocate. But obviously I know nothing about the subject so please have wikipedia enlighten me.

I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about etymology. Words can mean different things .


But this is way off topic.

 

[MiracleforMD]

A sexual assualt survivor and a trained domestic violence/sexual assualt victim advocate. But obviously I know nothing about the subject so please have wikipedia enlighten me.

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What you just said is analogous to being diagnosed with Hep. C and then referring to yourself as an Infectious Disease physician. Lol.

 

[touchpause13]

That doesn't really have anything to do with linguistics...

I agree that using the word "rape" casually is somewhat distasteful, but sensitivity doesn't disprove goof's point.

My u.derstanding is that it comes from the latin word for steal. My entire point was not that I'm easily offensed but that words and language are extremely powerful. I think many people use words, particularlly words that have taboo elements attached to then, casually and without much critical thought. As future health professionals I think we have the responsibility to be careful with the language we use because most patients take things that doctors say extremely seriously and therefore misusing language can be detramental to patients.

I'm also an english major who has taken a fair share of courses on linguistics if that makes u feel better about my authority on the subject
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[galaxyx]

My u.derstanding is that it comes from the latin word for steal. My entire point was not that I'm easily offensed but that words and language are extremely powerful. I think many people use words, particularlly words that have taboo elements attached to then, casually and without much critical thought. As future health professionals I think we have the responsibility to be careful with the language we use because most patients take things that doctors say extremely seriously and therefore misusing language can be detramental to patients.

I'm also an english major who has taken a fair share of courses on linguistics if that makes u feel better about my authority on the subject
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I have a problem with any group, marginalized or not, claiming a word for themselves and deciding how it can and cannot be used without any regard for the history of the word. That being said, the statement "raped by a firehose" is clearly allegorical and marginalizes rape. It is not being used in a historically contextual way, but in an offensive way. Although, the offense is to trivialize the trauma of rape by comparing into to an overflow of knowledge, not the actual use of the word "rape."

 

[NickNaylor]

My u.derstanding is that it comes from the latin word for steal. My entire point was not that I'm easily offensed but that words and language are extremely powerful. I think many people use words, particularlly words that have taboo elements attached to then, casually and without much critical thought. As future health professionals I think we have the responsibility to be careful with the language we use because most patients take things that doctors say extremely seriously and therefore misusing language can be detramental to patients.

I'm also an english major who has taken a fair share of courses on linguistics if that makes u feel better about my authority on the subject
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Lol I really don't care about "authority" on the subject, I was just pointing out that your argument had nothing to do with what goof brought up. I also agree with galaxy in that I am uncomfortable with the idea that because a group of people are uncomfortable with a word means that we can't use the word at all.

 

[touchpause13]

Lol I really don't care about "authority" on the subject, I was just pointing out that your argument had nothing to do with what goof brought up. I also agree with galaxy in that I am uncomfortable with the idea that because a group of people are uncomfortable with a word means that we can't use the word at all.

I didn't respond directly because I can't figure out how to get those links to work on my fone... so I haven't looked at them yet

And I get what u and galxy are saying, that is a common idea I have heard and it has its points. My problem is when people use words that have been used historically to discrimate and marginalize without any regard to what damage they can cause.

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[JPSmyth]

everybody says, if you're going into medicine for money, then go into business..

but going into high paying business fields (specifically investment banking), as a first year analyst you are expected to be able to work the "120 hour week." sounds hell of a lot worse than residency to me, but I wouldn't know personally

business isn't the easy route, to be really successful in business (750k+) you need to work just as hard/harder than a doctor would

also, where is this 150k number coming from? my orthopedic surgeon makes 700 a year

 

[goofball]

everybody says, if you're going into medicine for money, then go into business..

but going into high paying business fields (specifically investment banking), as a first year analyst you are expected to be able to work the "120 hour week." sounds hell of a lot worse than residency to me, but I wouldn't know personally

business isn't the easy route, to be really successful in business (750k+) you need to work just as hard/harder than a doctor would

also, where is this 150k number coming from? my orthopedic surgeon makes 700 a year

I have some friends in Ibanking/related fields. They say that after a few years as an analyst you're expected to leave the field and move into a higher paying, senior position that does less work.

But let's be honest. Going into medicine, you KNEW you could make more money pushing zeroes around in a computer (if you had the connections and pedigree ofc). You gave that up for the chance to be a healer and a teacher. I think we got the better end of the deal.

I know a lot of you probably come from Ivy League schools, where I've heard physicians are considered the failures who couldn't make it in Ibanking/consulting/whatever. Well, I don't know much about that. I just know that you're only a failure if you consider yourself one. And that many, many people would give up their right testicle/breast for the chance to become a physician.

 

[circulus vitios]

I have some friends in Ibanking/related fields. They say that after a few years as an analyst you're expected to leave the field and move into a higher paying, senior position that does less work.

But let's be honest. Going into medicine, you KNEW you could make more money pushing zeroes around in a computer (if you had the connections and pedigree ofc). You gave that up for the chance to be a healer and a teacher. I think we got the better end of the deal.

I know a lot of you probably come from Ivy League schools, where I've heard physicians are considered the failures who couldn't make it in Ibanking/consulting/whatever. Well, I don't know much about that. I just know that you're only a failure if you consider yourself one. And that many, many people would give up their right testicle/breast for the chance to become a physician.

That's a pretty big "of course." The vast majority of medical students didn't go to an Ivy, Stanford, MIT, etc.

I don't think i-banking associates have better work-life balance than analysts, either. The pay is better but they're still putting in the hours, and if you don't get the promotion from analyst to associate you're also asked to leave, not to remain as an analyst.

 

[goofball]

That's a pretty big "of course." The vast majority of medical students didn't go to an Ivy, Stanford, MIT, etc.

I don't think i-banking associates have better work-life balance than analysts, either. The pay is better but they're still putting in the hours, and if you don't get the promotion from analyst to associate you're also asked to leave, not to remain as an analyst.

Yeah, that too.

I think that there's really two groups of people in this debate.


1) People from Ivy League schools with the grades/connections/pedigree to make it into Ibanking, who now regret their decision to become a physician in light of decreasing reimbursements and various other stuff.

2) People from state schools without those connections/pedigree. People who are staring down the barrel of a future where a BA/BS is near-useless, a future where the only thing certain (for many students) is underemployment, etc.


The thing is opportunity cost. Group 1 had a high opportunity cost of going into medicine. Group 2 had a near-zero opportunity cost (well, disregard Dentistry for a minute, the upfront monetary investment is on par with medicine).

And I understand people in both groups. If you had it in you to be a 1%er, you'll probably regret going into medicine. If you didn't, you'll probably still appreciate it.

 

[alerk323]

Yeah, that too.

I think that there's really two groups of people in this debate.


1) People from Ivy League schools with the grades/connections/pedigree to make it into Ibanking, who now regret their decision to become a physician in light of decreasing reimbursements and various other stuff.

2) People from state schools without those connections/pedigree. People who are staring down the barrel of a future where a BA/BS is near-useless, a future where the only thing certain (for many students) is underemployment, etc.


The thing is opportunity cost. Group 1 had a high opportunity cost of going into medicine. Group 2 had a near-zero opportunity cost (well, disregard Dentistry for a minute, the upfront monetary investment is on par with medicine).

And I understand people in both groups. If you had it in you to be a 1%er, you'll probably regret going into medicine. If you didn't, you'll probably still appreciate it.

Except being the 1%er in medicine means your pretty awesome. CEO's of hospitals and businesses, research tycoons, even political leaders. Cmon guys seriously, if you had the skills/motivation to crush the Ibanking world and make millions, you have the skills and motivation to crush the medicine world and become whatever you want. And if you find that you actually aren't that motivated or skilled (to be the 1%er), then worse case scenario you make a paltry 150-300 k as a lowly clinician instead of being layed off after 4 years of slave labor to a ibanking group or law firm.

we got it good playyyas

 

[SeekerOfTheTree]

Lol.

 

[MVP]

The reason its not okay to go into medicine for the money is because its one of the only hill-skill professions out there that are regulated. Medical schools cap the total number of doctors in the system and there is no competition from foreigners. Society provides this stable and lucrative career with the expectation that doctors are passionate about providing the best medical care for their patients, beyond the call of duty. Doctors are expected to be brilliant yet humble, compassionate yet controlled. The intangibles that come with prioritizing the patient--and not the money--are what separates those who are great doctors and those who simply have the numerical qualifications to get into medical school. As both an individual and a citizen, I would like my--and everyone else's-- doctor not to be in it for me and not the money.

 

[EnergyDrink]

The reason its not okay to go into medicine for the money is because its one of the only hill-skill professions out there that are regulated. Medical schools cap the total number of doctors in the system and there is no competition from foreigners. Society provides this stable and lucrative career with the expectation that doctors are passionate about providing the best medical care for their patients, beyond the call of duty. Doctors are expected to be brilliant yet humble, compassionate yet controlled. The intangibles that come with prioritizing the patient--and not the money--are what separates those who are great doctors and those who simply have the numerical qualifications to get into medical school. As both an individual and a citizen, I would like my--and everyone else's-- doctor not to be in it for me and not the money.

I'd be more grateful if this was true. Unfortunately, the loans are in our name, not society's.

How could you possibly call medicine "stable and lucrative" in the current environment? As medical schools increase tuition and the government decreases loan subsidies and reimbursements, medicine isn't as great as it appears.

As both an individual and a citizen, I would like my--and everyone else's-- doctor not to be in it for me and not the money.

Actually, you just want somebody that is going to make you feel better. You think this sounds good, but when you're actually being treated, you just want someone that's actually going to help effectively.

 

[circulus vitios]

The reason its not okay to go into medicine for the money is because its one of the only hill-skill professions out there that are regulated. Medical schools cap the total number of doctors in the system and there is no competition from foreigners. Society provides this stable and lucrative career with the expectation that doctors are passionate about providing the best medical care for their patients, beyond the call of duty. Doctors are expected to be brilliant yet humble, compassionate yet controlled. The intangibles that come with prioritizing the patient--and not the money--are what separates those who are great doctors and those who simply have the numerical qualifications to get into medical school. As both an individual and a citizen, I would like my--and everyone else's-- doctor not to be in it for me and not the money.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. I don't know where this line of thinking comes form, that a physician being driven by money means he will half-ass his job or not care about his patients.

 

[Daodejing]

The two aren't mutually exclusive. I don't know where this line of thinking comes form, that a physician being driven by money means he will half-ass his job or not care about his patients.

+1. Each person will have their own personal limit on an income level that they feel is sustainable. I don't believe one has any right to judge nor should care about what others pursue medicine for. To quote colloquial parlance, "you do you."

 

[MVP]

Stability refers to the guarantee that your job will be there when you wake up in the morning. For businessmen, lawyers, staff scientists, traders, and engineers, that is not a luxury they have. Within this context, doctors enjoy little competition, a predictable timetable of debt repayment, and a minimum of an upper middle class lifestyle. Only unionized state employees and professors can claim the same kind of security that doctors enjoy.

Unless the job is literally to make money, someone in it for money will never have same success at a job than someone who has the same qualifications but also the passion. These are not wishy washy qualities just aimed at making people feel good.

 

[MVP]

The two aren't mutually exclusive. I don't know where this line of thinking comes form, that a physician being driven by money means he will half-ass his job or not care about his patients.

Of course you can have both. The guy who started this thread seemed to value being a doctor primarily because of its relative benefits to other careers. Good money should be a reward and a blessing, not the primary motivator to pick a job that involves other people's health.

 

[45408]

The two aren't mutually exclusive. I don't know where this line of thinking comes form, that a physician being driven by money means he will half-ass his job or not care about his patients.

Oh, I do.

Procedures generate revenue, so procedure-based specialties will recommend that you get a procedure. If you're a hammer, everything is a nail. If you're a cardiologist, everyone needs a cath. If you're a gastroenterologist, everyone needs a colonoscopy.

In short:
[YOUTUBE]xskFo75Wdhs[/YOUTUBE]

 

[circulus vitios]

Of course you can have both. The guy who started this thread seemed to value being a doctor primarily because of its relative benefits to other careers. Good money should be a reward and a blessing, not the primary motivator to pick a job that involves other people's health.

I like how you agreed with me and then disagreed with me in the span of literally 3 sentences.

 

[Tommyguns89]

Quite right.

http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Intellectual-Property-Attorney-IV-Salary-Details.aspx


It also depends on what you do as an attorney. Tax attorneys generally make a lot lower salary than intellectual property attorneys. The 90th percentile earn ~$290,000 which is quite comparable to a physician's salary. And lawyers don't have to pay whopping malpractice rates.

You guys crack me up. Unless you graduate top half of your class from a top 6 school(top 25-30% from the lower t14) or top 5-10% with law review from lower ranked schools, you will be lucky to have ANY job that requires a law degree. Oh and it gets better, the more experience you get in law the LESS job security you have(unless you have a giant book of business) Law is and up or out profession.

Here is a blog from a law school professor whose living is dependent upon people applying to law school.
http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/

Trust me, Med students have it way better than law students.

 

[goofball]

Trust me, Med students have it way better than law students.

That might change unless the government gets it's act together vis-a-vis the GME crisis. I'm imagining a horrible future where you get charged if you get charged if you want to do a Derm residency, as the ACGME CEO would have it. So basically we're all thrown into FP, IM, and Peds whether we like it or not.

 

[circulus vitios]

That might change unless the government gets it's act together vis-a-vis the GME crisis. I'm imagining a horrible future where you get charged if you get charged if you want to do a Derm residency, as the ACGME CEO would have it. So basically we're all thrown into FP, IM, and Peds whether we like it or not.

In a fair and just world people like Dr. Nasca would hang.

 

[goofball]

In a fair and just world people like Dr. Nasca would hang.

I wouldn't go that far. He's a desperate man caught between many competing interests, and he has to deal with an insane government that won't raise the funding for residency, yet has decided to add tens of millions of people to the insurance rolls with the ACA.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, and what this man has proposed are some of the harshest disincentives to entering a "desirable" specialty that I have ever seen. Is the proposal ludicrous? Certainly it is. But I think that itself shows the gravity of this situation.