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319671
If we all had the stats to get into med school, why would you choose opt over med?
-duration of studies
-work load/stress level
-nature of work (this is a big one)
-interest in vision (non-interest in surg (OMD))
-enough pay to be content
No interest in surgery
Less workload
No stress of matching to a residency
Potential of very high income, if planned properly
Most people think you are a MD anyways so why bother
Overall, if you are smart, dynamic and are willing to move where the money is, and/or if you just want to help people of all ages see then optometry is a great field.
I agree with all of the above and would add that your lifestyle is much more flexible because you can choose your own hours. Also, you're never on call, and you don't have to work graveyard shifts. Family life is also a big one for me.
Friends, you are all describing optometry in 1980. The future is likely going to be very different and very shaky regarding optometry.
The most likely scenerio is the emergence of refracting opticians. This is almost reality (or may already be) in some parts of Canada (not to metion the rest of the world). Using advanced instruments such as 'Eyelogic" and other state-of-the-art refracting instruments, a stand-alone refraction is very accurate. Coupled that with a good retinal camera (Optos or the next generation) which allows nearly a 300 degree retinal view and 99% of ocular problems can be found in a matter of 5 minutes. Maybe add a slit lamp photo as well.
It will all boil down to money.......ie, who bribes the politicans the most. Ophthalmologists would love refracting opticians who will do their money-making, eye -glass- selling refraction and send the pt to the OMD if any problems arise. It's a win-win for both of them.
Who else will win big with refracting opticians? WALMART. They will be able to offer the public a much cheaper "eyeglass" exam, for what? maybe $20 instead of the pitiful low OD price of $45 now. Remember Walmart---"Always Low Prices" (insert happy face). And opticians will have little to no school loans to pay back.
So the public, opticians, ophthalmologists and politicans all stand to benefit greatly by having refracting opticians. And there is nothing OMDs and opticians would like to do more than to stick it to Optometrists. Trust me here.
The only losers will be optometrists. It WILL happen as a cost-saving measure in the future. I know it is being worked on in the back rooms already.
SO with a refracting optician in every commerical joint, what will the remaining non-private practice ODs (20,000 + current commercial ODs??) in the US do? It's a real question.
Now onto the main issue which is the over-supply of ODs and new schools opening. I agree there, this is what hurting the optometry most. Oversupply is what most should fear. Walmart and similar places and private practices have too many options in terms of who they can hire, they dictate the terms because there are many others lined up for the same job. Only cure is practice somewhere were your services are needed, there are several cold provinces in need of everyone including OD. Not sure about US
There is an element of truth to what you're saying, but the problem of oversupply is only the input of the whole crap heap. If the oversupply problem were to vanish instantly by half the ODs in the US retiring all at once, the devaluation of optometric services would still exist and would take a long time to be corrected. We've trashed the value of our services by allowing corporations to hijack ODs for the purpose of selling their materials. That won't be corrected at any time in the near future, whether you're in rural Nebraska or NYC.
You guys really should read up on the realities of optometry. My number one concern on this site is that the perception of optometry's reality is totally inappropriate considering what the profession offers currently.
In most situations these days, you can't choose your own hours. You're at the mercy of what your employer needs - that means nights and weekends. Also, as an OD, you absolutely can be on call. If you're one of the lucky few that is able to find a FT or PT position in a private office, you're very likely going to take the call that the senior doc(s) don't want to take. Granted, the call you'll take as an OD is very different than that of an ER doc or surgeon. The point is, optometry is not going to be what you're picturing.
In most cases, careers that pay well, but offer high flexibility are those which involve offering a service or product that is in high demand relative to supply. Optometry is not one of those professions right now. If you choose an OD as a path, be prepared to work hours that you don't want on days that you don't want in environments that you don't like for pay that's lower than you expect. That's the future for many, if not most ODs coming out of programs these days.
Now lets contrast that with real life example of place where there is shortage of all doctors and services. Place called Saskoptical in Saskatoon (Canada) has been looking for an OD for about 18 months now. Check the posting on carrerjet, its been there for many months. They are willing to offer you all the perks with 6 figure base salary without the need of selling anything. But, more importantly you will be treated with respect you deserve. This is how it should be.
This is highly suspect. If the place you are speaking about is such a great deal, there would never be an opening. The first OD that ever worked there would still be there. He would hold on to this prize position for life. http://www.saskatoonoptical.ca/about/#/images/img-about-07.jpg
This is a tiny litte optician office looking for an eyeglass prescription writer so he can make all the money on selling eyeglasses (instead of the OD......so basically you would be doing all the work and the optician would make more than your exam fee in about 5 minutes of selling eyewear.. These scenerios are a dime a dozen and rarely work out in the OD's favor in the long-term.
And It will only happen when number of seats in each school are reduced by half, standards for admission are raised and no new school are opened for the next decade or two.
This will only happen if people like Jason, Tippytoe and future ODs who understand the issues get more involved politically. Let their voices be heard at upper levels and actually be responsible for making decisions about the future of Optometry. But, too many people instead of helping fix the problem just ignore it (i am not paying any fees or going to the meetings). Their mentality " hey I have lived my life, not my problem anymore" If this profession was led by few unselfish souls we would not be in this mess.
And what makes you think either me or Jason has not been involved politically in optometry? I can assure you I have. It's all about money. No involvement, no matter how altrustic will make a difference. Trust me on this one.
And I still get baffled at how pre-opt student seem to have it all figured out. I'm just wondering, would you go onto an engineering site or perhaps auto mechanics site and tell them you have everything figured out in their chosen profession? I sure wouldn't. I know my limitations and I know 'what I don't know'. Just makes me wonder about the boldness and forthright arrogance of the posters. Seriously, I'm very confused about it.
Perhaps some high school, college or OD student could chime in and tell me how you know more than a person that has been doing it for 15 years (graduated OD school, attained fellowship in the academy, written journal articles, run a business, met payroll (ie. supports 5 employees and their families), runs an optical, treats eye disease, pays enormous business taxes, purchased commercial real estate, lectures to colleagues, teaches at a medical school, etc...)
Now how exactly does this compare to being an undergraduate and perhaps working part-time at Lenscrafters selling the "perpetual 50% off " eyeglasses??
Emily ... You need a hobby.why is tippyMORON always trying to convince students to not pursue optometry?
Because he doesn't want students to steal his business.....
Do you honestly think that teaching at a medical school makes you more qualified as an Optometrist?
Or do you honestly think that changing your font to the color red will make your post's more read-worthy?
I guess about the only thing left to do, after I've kicked my kids out of my house and bought a cool mustang is to post on SDN. You need professional help....maybe try the medical school you teach, I'm sure they can help out a fellow employee.
why is tippyMORON always trying to convince students to not pursue optometry?
Because he doesn't want students to steal his business.....
Do you honestly think that teaching at a medical school makes you more qualified as an Optometrist?
Or do you honestly think that changing your font to the color red will make your post's more read-worthy?
I guess about the only thing left to do, after I've kicked my kids out of my house and bought a cool mustang is to post on SDN. You need professional help....maybe try the medical school you teach, I'm sure they can help out a fellow employee.
Oversupply is the main reason for devaluation. If there was a demand or supply of optometrist was under control, a new graduate could walk into these optical giants and say I am working 5 days, no evenings, I am not selling any material, I want my separate office, I expect to get paid this much etc. etc. and the store would say Yes, Sir!
But, that is not the case (at least in most places). Corporations are not hijacking ODs, these ODs have no other choice in most cases. Too much student loan to start own practice, too much competition from established practices, private practices not hiring, so 70k at Walmart looks like a dream come true.
Do you seriously have nothing better to do than to live on these forums to discourage all future optometrists? If I was you, I'd quit my job, go back to school, and become something else if I was so unhappy. I know plenty of PhDs and JDs who went back to school to change professions. Otherwise, quit whining, it's getting old. I am also friends with lots of NEW optometrists (i.e. people who just graduated last year) who are really happy with their work and life situation.
I don't live on these forums. I live in a small, semi-dumpy 3 BR house and I drive a car with an oil leak that I can't afford to fix since it would set me back more than the car is worth. That's what you guys have to look forward to as an OD. I don't want to be rich, but I'd love to not have to worry about month to month finances at my age. Your new optometrist friends have yet to realize the pile of crap they've jumped into. It usually takes a year or two to burn out and see that the 100K you're getting from America's Ass or Cohen's Ploptical is not nearly enough to justify the slime you're doing.
If you can have your friends explain how they managed to go back to school after racking up 200K in educational debt that can't be escaped, please do tell. As for me, I've got to keep making payments. It's a little difficult to stop earning an income, go back to school, and continue supporting your family. If you can explain how that can be done through one of your "plenty" of friends, please enlighten us all.
so you can afford a 3bd house but not a car that works?
I don't live on these forums. I live in a small, semi-dumpy 3 BR house and I drive a car with an oil leak that I can't afford to fix since it would set me back more than the car is worth. That's what you guys have to look forward to as an OD. I don't want to be rich, but I'd love to not have to worry about month to month finances at my age. Your new optometrist friends have yet to realize the pile of crap they've jumped into. It usually takes a year or two to burn out and see that the 100K you're getting from America's Ass or Cohen's Ploptical is not nearly enough to justify the slime you're doing.
If you can have your friends explain how they managed to go back to school after racking up 200K in educational debt that can't be escaped, please do tell. As for me, I've got to keep making payments. It's a little difficult to stop earning an income, go back to school, and continue supporting your family. If you can explain how that can be done through one of your "plenty" of friends, please enlighten us all.
My car works fine - it just leaks a lot of oil. That was a brilliant piece of detective work, though. Keep your trolling going - it's very beneficial to the discussion and adds greatly to people's understanding of the profession and what it entails.
Did you start a family before finding a ideal setting for yourself in terms of practicing? That much loan and early family commitment is a recipe for disaster. Especially for a male. Hopefully, we can learn from your mistakes.
I currently earn about $2k/month before taxes while I'm waiting for school to start. My wife, son, and I have everything we need and get by just fine through budgeting. I paid off my car that had an oil leak (but I climbed under it and fixed it).
It can be done.
You people refuse to understand logic. I can "get by" on $1000 per month. My family could eat Ramen noodles for 10 cents a meal. We could live in a rented room in someone's home like an immigrant family. We could ride bikes instead of using a car. The point is, most people who go to optometry school don't want to graduate after 8-10 years of expensive schooling and "get by." If you can live on 2K per month, good for you. Get used to it - you'll likely not be making much more than that after you graduate.
I currently earn about $2k/month before taxes while I'm waiting for school to start. My wife, son, and I have everything we need and get by just fine through budgeting. I paid off my car that had an oil leak (but I climbed under it and fixed it).
It can be done.
Your comments are so outlandish and ignorant that I seriously sometimes wonder how you are not banned yet for trolling. You have been doing this for months. I'm sorry but the per diem (per day) rate for ODs is ~$350-$500 so even if we use the lower rate at $350 a day then it would take less than 6 days of work to make $2000. Yes, yes loans, blah blah blah, so go work for 12 days to make another $2000 to pay your loans. Or 18 to make another $2000 just for fun and/or to pay taxes.
Jason, lets imagine instead of graduation with 200+k loan you didn't have any or maybe 50k. How would that have changed your situation. Do you think you would be still in the same situation as you are right now?
You guys don't get it. My situation is not why I'm on here. I'm on here because of where the profession is heading. It's obvious to those of us who know enough to see what's plainly sitting in front of our eyes. If I owed 50K instead of 200K, yes, I'd be in a much better position, but optometry wouldn't be any different and it's future would be unchanged. I'm not on here because I'm unhappy - I'm leaving optometry and I'll never look back. There will be many who leave after me given all that's going to happen.
So any thinking person can see that the future is not bright for optometry in general.
So all the people in my school with an average GPA of 3.5 are all *****s and should have done MD or something else. I get it. What was optometry's average matriculant GPA when you started school? Right now I believe it is 3.3.
tippytoe and jasonk, what advice would you give us crazy kids who still want to do optometry?
tippytoe and jasonk, what advice would you give us crazy kids who still want to do optometry?
Looking at it another way: There are 40,000 ODs in 2011. There will be 48,000 in 2020. The population of the US is 312,000 in 2011. It is predicted to be 341,000 in 2020
( 29,000 difference).
So.............. that 29,000 people divided by 8,000 more ODs = 3.6 patients per new OD.
You want to reconsider/redefine what these numbers are? You mean the population will grow by that much?
You do realize those projections are in thousands, right?
There are ~310,000,000 people in the USA right now.
That means your projections mean 3600 patients for every new graduate...not 3.6 and 1 OD for every 7000 patients.
I seriously hope this was just an oversight and not an intentional and blatantly bad stat trying to prove your point.
Yes. Yes. The population in the US is in the millions--- 310,000.000, projected to be 341 million in 2020.
The numbers, or should I say the concept, is the same. .
man, I wish KHE didn't leave
Believe what you want, but the truth is that there is an oversupply of ODs in most cities of any size
And we have to pay twice the social security tax as everyone else, in the form of self employment tax.
Most of you will have to manage more debt than you can comfortably manage
You will be practicing optometry, not medicine, and if you don't know the difference, you are setting yourselves up for great disappointment. We don't save lives every day. The work is largely providing good vision, not treating eye diseases.
I was confused like cgrblue on how he came up with 3.6 patients/per OD. Population is going up in millions and you are dividing 29000 by increased number of ODs instead of 29 million. No wonder you came up with the number 3.6 which is obviously not correct.
There is a big difference in 3.6 patients/OD when compared to 7000 patients/OD. How can you even think 3 patients per OD could be anywhere near the truth. Based on the same argument if half don't get the exam etc etc etc. 3.6/2 etc etc you will end up with a number near 0. So 0 patients per OD. First you bring up numbers then when yours numbers are incorrect you switch to concept is the same.
Everyone knows that $45 is what insurance usually pays. MSP in Canada pays excatly the same, you bring no new information. Look, everyone knows that Optometry is not at the same level as medicine in terms of income, respect, and job opportunities. But, not everyone can do medicine or want to do medicine. Should you expect optometry to give you the same benefits of medicine, answer is NO. There is a reason why optometry schools are much easier to get into compared to med school. Optometry is a different route with lower payoff, in most cases. I know that, check my previous posts. I know there is an oversupply. But, sometimes you have to play with the cards you are dealt. Optometry is still better than what I am doing now and will be if I don't go to optometry school. Yes, many will end up commercial, most of us know that and it wouldn't be the end of the world if I did. But, if you keep your loans in check and are flexible in terms of where you can practice, you can make it. You can call me stupid for being slightly optimistic or hopeful, if you wish.
I'm a recent graduate (2010).
I would say Jason K is a little pessimistic and Tippytoe is realistic.
It's not just optometry that is having problems. Dentistry is currently battling corporate as well. We have dentists in our malls now and there was a dentist office in the Wal-Mart but they shut down due to lack of business. Corporate medicine/Urgent Care is the trend for every health field.