Why Psychology and not Psychiatry?

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I am wondering why we have all chosen psychology and not psychiatry. I feel that an understanding of nuerological issues is very important to understanding mental illness, and I want to incorporate this into any mental health oriented field I go into. Sometimes I wonder why I am not going into psychiatry, because medication has helped me effectively deal with many of the problems I currently have...but so has therapy. How can I do both? It seems like psychologists do the therapy and psychiatrists do meds, but I really would like to do both.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

How can I do both? It seems like psychologists do the therapy and psychiatrists do meds, but I really would like to do both.

Check out this thread for some info.

I am wondering why we have all chosen psychology and not psychiatry. I feel that an understanding of nuerological issues is very important to understanding mental illness, and I want to incorporate this into any mental health oriented field I go into.

You can still do this; Neuropsychologists do exactly what you are asking for. I believe in a strong biological basis, and think clinical psych needs to have a few more requirements in these areas.

As for why clinical psych instead of psychiatry.....for me it was about what I wanted to do with my career. Med school was more of an academic interest, though I never really wanted to be a physician. A psychiatrist is a physician first, and that wasn't really what I wanted. Clinical psych allows me to do some research, teach, get more clinical training, etc. I know I could find ways to do those things after med school, but it seemed like most of those people do a PhD / MD....and frankly, most of those people go back into academia, which isn't where I want to be.

It is very much a personal decision, so I encourage you to talk to professionals in the field, and shadow as much as you can.

-t

 

[blindblonde]

Personally, I've had no desire to do psychiatry. People have asked me why, usually citing financial reasons. I know my impression is not entirely accurate of the field, but my reasons are as follows. I perceive psychiatry as a profession that primarily gives out medication, pressured by drug companies to push THEIR drug. Additioanlly, there is a stereotype (although I know many people that need meds--please don't get me wrong) of people seeking a quick fix through medication and not seeking supplemental therapy. I know it is far more common now to do both, yet I knew that the focus of meds in psychiatry would wear me down.

In my personal choice, therapy is more rewarding and was clear choice for a career. Psychiatry is an art of balancing chemicals, and therapy is a balance of experience. Each are respectable and challenging, and I suppose it would be ideal to do both. Personally, I just have had no desire to deal with the meds. Who knows? My attitude may change with experience in a few years.

 

[PsyKardinal]

I think I chose to become a therapist for a few different reasons;

1. I have always had more of an interest in psychology, and not particularly in medicine. I always wanted to understand why people did the things that they do...this lead me to undergrad psychology.

2. Career counseling was abysmal at my smallish college. Once I told my freshman advisor I want to be a psychologist, there was no further discussion of alternatives. I did not even realize that there were alternatives beyond psychologist if I wanted to be a therapist.

3. I could not effectively push pills, I know that psychiatrists are trained to provide psychotherapy and many do provide that service in their practice. I think most are pressured into providing the "quick and easy" fix by most patients/clients

4. Last but not least, all of the gross stuff you have to see or handle as you make your way through medical school and residency I would not be able to hack it. I like my lunch to stay thoroughly put in my stomach.

Another way to look at this question that I think is important for new to the profession or questioning the profession, why did you become a therapist. Becoming a therapist is just as difficult and as time consuming as becoming a psychiatrist. (4 years undergrad+4 years post grad+ Internship/ Practicum is about the same length of time)

1. I love problem solving, and I think that one of the cores of psychotherapy is problem solving, teaching our clients how to solve a problem, how to adapt, how to cope, how to feel their emotions and how to live with all that entails.

2. Therapy works. It is an effective treatment for a multitude of problems and situations. I have provided care to people from small children dealing with a little separation anxiety, to survivors of Hurricanes Katrina/Rita. I don't think that they make a pill that helps deal those problems.

3. I did not want to grow up and wear a tie. My dad had to wear a tie to work everyday, and I think that sucks. So I found professions were I can get away with not wearing a tie most days of the week.

4. This field is new exciting and different, every day I am going to hear a new story and meet a new person someone that I am going to try and help and I sincerely hope that I can improve their lives.

Ok I seriously ran out of steam, I think this is a good start. I will probably edit and update this a few times.

jeff

 

[KillerDiller]

I considered med school breifly. For a while it was sort of a back-up plan even though it would have required post-bac coursework to even get the background needed to apply. Anyway, I gradually realized that it would have to be clinical psych or nothing for me. I couldn't handle the med school rotation and going so many years in school before even getting any specialty training in psychiatry. Also, I happen to dislike the way most drug trials are conducted. Granted, I haven't read many articles in medical journals, but what I have read has left me questioning the methodology used quite a bit. I'm sure the majority of these studies are sound, but it's still just not the type of research I could see myself doing.

 

[Ollie123]

I definitely considered both, though admittedly not until post-graduation so I'd have had to go back and do a post-bac since I have almost none of the required courses (unless my APs count....but I don't think they do).

Here's what it boiled down to for me:

1)Med school meant another 4ish years of generalist training before I even started to get into psych stuff. I didn't feel like I got to specialize enough as an UNDERGRAD so to go through even more generalized training would be hellish.

2) Giving therapy is more fun than doling out prescriptions in my eyes. Both are necessary, but therapy sounds much more enjoyable. And yes, psychiatrists can give therapy (and in some cases, psychologists can give meds now), but from what I understand it is the "occasional" therapy client mixed in with 5000 15-minute med adjustments as an MD, unless you get a stellar residency and can set up a for-cash practice.

3) I might make it a day in an OB/GYN or Surgery rotation before shooting myself. MIGHT. Blech. Boring, I have precisely zero interest in delivering babies, in many cases depressing or disgusting above and beyond what you see in a mental health ward (which can be some pretty depressing and disgusting things).

4) Hate labs. Like science. Hate labs (meaning benchwork labs). Pre-reqs and some early med-school would suck.

5) One of the big draws for some people seems to be money. I don't care and don't need that much money to survive. I keep seeing posts on the pre-med board asking if its possible to feed yourself off 150k a year (bit of an exxageration, but not by much) and I imagine I will be VERY comfortable off half that. Heck, I'm not married and don't have kids, but I did just fine off 25k (though I am admittedly in a relatively low-cost-of-living area). I still don't understand what these people do with their money that they'd even have to ask if 150k is enough to survive.

6) Most importantly - TERRIBLE research training at most med schools. Basically none. You can work in a lab if you want to do research, and that's fantastic, but you will not get formal training in advanced stats, methodology, things like that unless you go to a residency that includes a research track. I get to take 2 full years of stats, and a course JUST in grant writing. Couldn't find a med school that offered anything like that. MDs have to kind of pick it up on their own. Some do great, some do okay, but MANY fall short.

I like medicine, and there's still a chance some day I'll go back and get a medical degree. For now though I picked research training over a stronger biological background. It makes sense to me given my career goal is to be a researcher. I can go back and fill in the background later if need be (though 200k sounds like a lot of money to spend on "background"). For now I'll focus on getting training as a researcher, and see where I stand after that.

 

[Neuro-Dr]

You would get a fair amount of training in neurology if you went through psychiatry and you'd be expected to pass the neurology portion of your boards (about 75 questions). Or you could go through neuropsychology and get training that way, so I'm not sure it matters as much, though neuropsychology would be loaded cortically, rather than systemically and it is idiosyncratic how much pharmokocenetics (sp?) you'd get.

I'm not sure psychiatrists are pressured from drug reps any more than any other physician, but there is a true difference in the average patient for each. Since the psychiatrists make rounds and keep their inpatients afterwards, their patients are pretty sick. Also, must common MH problems are handled by family docs, so again, psychiatry gets the more difficult cases. Psychiatrists have "call" and need to be available at all times to a degree. They could do therapy, but it does not pay as well as the 4-5 med calls they could get in at the same time.

I have to good friends in LA who are both PsyDs with their MP and are working at hospitals and prescribing meds and are very happy and very well accepted. Neither are making any more money than when they were psychologists and both make over $150K so they are paid just as well as psychiatry.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I have to good friends in LA who are both PsyDs with their MP and are working at hospitals and prescribing meds and are very happy and very well accepted. Neither are making any more money than when they were psychologists and both make over $150K so they are paid just as well as psychiatry.

I've heard the same. I like the flexibility of a PsyD/PhD + Pharma....it seems the best of both worlds.

-t

 

[Ollie123]

On that note, how is pharma working these days - you are in a program for it, right T4C?

I'm curious how competitive those programs are these days now that RxP is taking off a bit. I've never heard of someone who wanted to do it being unable to get into the training program, but I only know a few people who have wanted to so it isn't exactly a good sample size.

Are you funded during your time in those programs or are they loan-based?

Sorry, done hijacking the thread now.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

On that note, how is pharma working these days - you are in a program for it, right T4C?

I'm curious how competitive those programs are these days now that RxP is taking off a bit. I've never heard of someone who wanted to do it being unable to get into the training program, but I only know a few people who have wanted to so it isn't exactly a good sample size.

Are you funded during your time in those programs or are they loan-based?

Sorry, done hijacking the thread now.

Yup, in a program. As for competition, I don't really know. It seems to be a pretty small self-selected group, with the kind of backgrounds that lend itself well to the area (my class is 13 people, and mostly nuero and health people). I know there has been an influx of interest, though i'm not sure how that will translate into people being accepted/completing the program. I can't speak to the other programs and the people in their classes. I haven't heard of any program that is funded (unfortunately). I consider the cost nominal, considering what you can get out of it. That being said....I still think there is room for improvement. I think it would be helpful to have pre-reqs like med school, and a bit more uniformity across programs. It is still a very young field, and seems to be feeling itself out.

-t

 

[Salsybabe]

1. I have never had any interest, not even the slightest, in becoming a physician.

2. I do not have an apptitude for the "hard" sciences. Thus, it's very unlikely that I would make it in a pre-med curriculum let alone medical school. Besides I don't even like science much.

3. I find psychology much more interesting.

4. I have no desire to prescribe medication.

5. I'm interested in doing research and many medical school programs do not provide that, at least the research I'm interested in.

6. PhD programs tend to be funded; MD programs, not. I know MDs make more than psychologists, but they tend to have more debt to pay off than PhDs (if they've gone to a funded program) and I'd rather make less and have less debt to pay off.

7. I'm a little different in that I'm not in clinical psychology, but I am more interested in normal development versus pathology and prevention versus remediation. I think psychology is a better fit for me in that respect.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

I really wanted to be a Psychiatrist but in second year I got 8% on my organic chemistry midterm and dropped it. A year later I found myself finally with a high enough GPA to go into Honours so I decided on Psychology since it had been my childhood dream. I'm happy with it, I don't think I could deal with the medicine atmosphere. Most of the Psychiatrists I've had experience with in my life have been content to push pills and wait while clients struggled with real issues for years. Granted some of them are excellent at what they do, but the nature of the profession is a little too drug-oriented for me. I'm not comfortable with the role drug companies play.

 

[JockNerd]

I had intended to go into Genetics when I started university. I hated the coursework, even though I was doing fine in it. When I found out my job options would be to work for places like Monsanto, I dropped the idea.

I briefly thought about med school and psychiatry. I have no desire at all to be a physician, though. I love research, but I have no desire to do the sort of research that psychiatrists do. Like others, I have a deep aversion to what I perceive to be the subserviance of psychiatry to pharmaceutical companies, and have no desire to make my money doing med rounds.

I also couldn't care less how much money I make, so long as its over $30k. If I wanted to be rich, I'm 100% sure I could have been a fantastic corporate lawyer.

 

[chaos]

Why not med school? I would die during surgical rotations. I have no motor coordination for that sort of thing so I'd probably sever some major artery and kill someone. I'd be quite good with the theoretical, memorize-the-structure-of-the-hepatic-portal system, quick tell me how you'd treat the Hanta virus part, but I just don't operate well in the three dimensional world. 🙄

I regularly go through a period of several months where I decide... omg I just HAVE to become a medical doctor!! and vow to change my major and only take biology classes next semester...and then I look through the organic chemistry/advanced physics texts at the bookstore and realize I would be much happier taking cognitive psychology and theories of personality and it's really not worth struggling through like 6 more years of stuff I'm not intrinsically gifted at just to eventually be able to write the words 'M.D.' after my name.


And I guess the real reason is this: If I worked really, extremely hard I could probably be an average medical student and an average doctor. But I think in clinical psychology I could excel.

 

[Anon15]

There is a HUGE difference between psychiatry research and psychology research. Psychiatry research tends to rely heavily on descriptive stats (usually w/ a biostat. performing the analysis) vs. psychology research which tends to be more sophisticated (i.e. CFA, SEM, etc.).

Additionally, a MD (psychiatrist) is viewed as a professional degree whereas a Ph.D. (psychologist) is viewed as an academic degree.

 

[doctorpsych]

You would get a fair amount of training in neurology if you went through psychiatry and you'd be expected to pass the neurology portion of your boards (about 75 questions). Or you could go through neuropsychology and get training that way, so I'm not sure it matters as much, though neuropsychology would be loaded cortically, rather than systemically and it is idiosyncratic how much pharmokocenetics (sp?) you'd get.

I'm not sure psychiatrists are pressured from drug reps any more than any other physician, but there is a true difference in the average patient for each. Since the psychiatrists make rounds and keep their inpatients afterwards, their patients are pretty sick. Also, must common MH problems are handled by family docs, so again, psychiatry gets the more difficult cases. Psychiatrists have "call" and need to be available at all times to a degree. They could do therapy, but it does not pay as well as the 4-5 med calls they could get in at the same time.

I have to good friends in LA who are both PsyDs with their MP and are working at hospitals and prescribing meds and are very happy and very well accepted. Neither are making any more money than when they were psychologists and both make over $150K so they are paid just as well as psychiatry.

where your friends making $150k doing therapy or where they practicing neuropsychology before rxp? Do psychologists simply make more money in LA due to the low supply of psychologists?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

where your friends making $150k doing therapy or where they practicing neuropsychology before rxp? Do psychologists simply make more money in LA due to the low supply of psychologists?

I'd guess neuro, but I know some clinicians who just do private practice that make $150k+ (no insurance, cash practices. $175-$200 per session)....it seems to be the way to go if you have the skills to build a practice.

-t

 

[Neuro-Dr]

One was neuro and doing almost all evals at $300 per hour with no insurance and made A LOT more than $150K, the other did mostly clinical, but several medico-legal cases that paid well.

Nothing pays well in LA, but the demand for RxP does carry with it a price tag and he is worth it.

 

[paramour]

Yup, in a program. As for competition, I don't really know. It seems to be a pretty small self-selected group, with the kind of backgrounds that lend itself well to the area (my class is 13 people, and mostly nuero and health people). I know there has been an influx of interest, though i'm not sure how that will translate into people being accepted/completing the program. I can't speak to the other programs and the people in their classes. I haven't heard of any program that is funded (unfortunately). I consider the cost nominal, considering what you can get out of it. That being said....I still think there is room for improvement. I think it would be helpful to have pre-reqs like med school, and a bit more uniformity across programs. It is still a very young field, and seems to be feeling itself out.

-t

I keep thinking I have this figured out and then someone says something & I confuzz myself. Not too surprising--seems to be regular practice as of late.

ANYWAY, is this training within your doctoral program (i.e., did you apply to a doctoral program that provided you w/ the pharma training)? Or, are you taking additional classes outside of a doctoral program (and if so, are you doing this at the same time as your doctoral program or afterwards)? Or, does one obtain pharma training through postdocs/fellowships/whatever?

I keep receiving schtuff in the mail for some reason but it's not very informative. Thought I'd ask for some clarification!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

ANYWAY, is this training within your doctoral program (i.e., did you apply to a doctoral program that provided you w/ the pharma training)? Or, are you taking additional classes outside of a doctoral program (and if so, are you doing this at the same time as your doctoral program or afterwards)? Or, does one obtain pharma training through postdocs/fellowships/whatever?

I keep receiving stuff in the mail for some reason but it's not very informative. Thought I'd ask for some clarification!

Completely separate program. I started it during my 3rd year of my doc. program. Some programs will let you start while still completing your doc, others will require you to be post-doc/licensed. I think the APA was debating if everything should be post-doc/licensure, though I'm not sure if they decided what they would recommend (they can't set policy/law, just recommend to the legislature/licensing boards)

The 'class' part is what you complete first. There may also be practica that is required. Once you complete those req. you get the degree.

If you want to go on and prescribe, you need to meet the standards of the state (typically ~2 year internship/residency, NAPPP exam, etc)

I don't want this discussion to get too far off track. If people want to discuss RxP further, I'd suggest posting in the sticky RxP thread.

-t

 

[paramour]

Completely separate program. I started it during my 3rd year of my doc. program. Some programs will let you start while still completing your doc, others will require you to be post-doc/licensed. I think the APA was debating if everything should be post-doc/licensure, though I'm not sure if they decided what they would recommend (they can't set policy/law, just recommend to the legislature/licensing boards)

The 'class' part is what you complete first. There may also be practica that is required. Once you complete those req. you get the degree.

If you want to go on and prescribe, you need to meet the standards of the state (typically ~2 year internship/residency, NAPPP exam, etc)

I don't want this discussion to get too far off track. If people want to discuss RxP further, I'd suggest posting in the sticky RxP thread.

-t

I thought that was the case--but someone somewhere recently was talking about it being part of their doctoral program. Crazy schtuff!

Thanks for the info! And, I'll check out the sticky again as I've not done so in a month or two. Slept since then 😀:

Let the regularly scheduled Psychiaty vs. Psychology discussion continue . . .

 

[docjohng]

Having talked with many psychiatrists and seen more than a few in action, the decision for me was simple -- did I want to become a medical doctor that mainly spent most days prescribing medications, or did I want to become an expert in human behavior and learn how emotions, thoughts and behaviors all interact and lead to so many of life's challenges.

Psychiatrists are, first and foremost, medical doctors when they come out of med school. Sure, with a residency and some additional training, they learn a little bit about human behavior and such. But I don't feel their training comes anywhere close to doctoral-level psychology professionals. I think that, with time, psychiatrists learn a lot on the job, but so do their psychology colleagues. The foundation for that learning is completely different, which to me, is an important difference.

The other thing is that if you want to learn about neurobiology, psychiatry isn't the best place to do it. Most neuropsychology programs do, imo, a better job in this area than medical schools do.

-John

 

[brightness]

Lets get off track! Let me see if I have this straight: There are programs that run around 2 years that allow one to prescribe medication as a psychologist? *whaaah?* I am assuming this isn't valid in many states, but where could I find out about a program like this? Is that what a medical psychologist does?

Completely separate program. I started it during my 3rd year of my doc. program. Some programs will let you start while still completing your doc, others will require you to be post-doc/licensed. I think the APA was debating if everything should be post-doc/licensure, though I'm not sure if they decided what they would recommend (they can't set policy/law, just recommend to the legislature/licensing boards)

The 'class' part is what you complete first. There may also be practica that is required. Once you complete those req. you get the degree.

If you want to go on and prescribe, you need to meet the standards of the state (typically ~2 year internship/residency, NAPPP exam, etc)

I don't want this discussion to get too far off track. If people want to discuss RxP further, I'd suggest posting in the sticky RxP thread.

-t

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Lets get off track! Let me see if I have this straight: There are programs that run around 2 years that allow one to prescribe medication as a psychologist? *whaaah?* I am assuming this isn't valid in many states, but where could I find out about a program like this? Is that what a medical psychologist does?

Please refer to THIS thread for my response.

-t

 

[Quynh2007]

psychology is more focused on psychology. even if you have to do research or clinical stuff (if you are inclined towards one or the other) it's better than having to go to medical school, do all the stuff you have absolutely no interest ilike clinical rotations in all those other fields, etcs before you can start your psychiatric residency. That's 4 years of education in something you really don't need.

Plus, I'm 70% research, 20% teaching, and 10% clinical for my future, so this was the obvious choice besides the price tag of the education.

 

[spillsomepaint]

I have to good friends in LA who are both PsyDs with their MP and are working at hospitals and prescribing meds and are very happy and very well accepted. Neither are making any more money than when they were psychologists and both make over $150K so they are paid just as well as psychiatry.

What does it mean to have your MP?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

What does it mean to have your MP?

Medical Psychologist. I prefer the term Prescribing Psychologist, but the terms are still very new.

I looked long and hard at New Orleans (for that very reason)....and I still may end up there, we'll see where I end up. New Orleans is especially in need now because of the low % of health professionals who chose to return to the area. It doesn't matter if you are a clinical psychologist, prescribing psychologist, psychiatrist, etc.....there is a great need down there.

I'd like to keep the prescribing psychologist stuff in the RxP thread (stickied at the top of the forum), so please feel free to ask any other questions in that thread.

As for psychiatry and psychology....

-t

 

[E Dubble]

psychology is more focused on psychology. even if you have to do research or clinical stuff (if you are inclined towards one or the other) it's better than having to go to medical school, do all the stuff you have absolutely no interest ilike clinical rotations in all those other fields, etcs before you can start your psychiatric residency. That's 4 years of education in something you really don't need.

Plus, I'm 70% research, 20% teaching, and 10% clinical for my future, so this was the obvious choice besides the price tag of the education.

Yeah, you really don't need Internal Medicine, Peds, OB/Gyne, Surgery to practice medicine. Those psych drugs only work in the brain anyway and have no effect on the rest of the body. Screw knowing how to read an EKG! And who cares about being able to communicate with your colleagues in other fields. So overrated.

 

[Ffinnian]

Same reason psychiatrists go into psychiatry instead of medicine proper; we hate the icky stuff.............................................................

 

[deleted176373]

Yeah, you really don't need Internal Medicine, Peds, OB/Gyne, Surgery to practice medicine. Those psych drugs only work in the brain anyway and have no effect on the rest of the body. Screw knowing how to read an EKG! And who cares about being able to communicate with your colleagues in other fields. So overrated.

LOL, that's funny. I was busy taking physiology my first semester, I even learned how to read an EKG, side by side with nurse anesthetists. I'm not even working towards the RxP yet. Once I finish my clinical/med psych degree then I will still get another 2 years of training before I am qualified to have RxP. Seems pretty reasonable.

Shows your ignorance of medical psych coursework now doesn't it. Funnier still is you don't need to really know how the mind works to prescribe psychoactive meds... just take your best guess, Doc. After all you probably can differentially diagnosis schizophrenia from bi-polar I disorder with psychotic features in your sleep.

Mark

 

[BorntoRun]

Yeah, you really don't need Internal Medicine, Peds, OB/Gyne, Surgery to practice medicine. Those psych drugs only work in the brain anyway and have no effect on the rest of the body. Screw knowing how to read an EKG! And who cares about being able to communicate with your colleagues in other fields. So overrated.

Your sarcasm would make a lot more sense if most clinical psychologists could 'practice medicine,' but the vast (vast vast vast) majority of clinical psychology programs give you no license to prescribe anything whatsoever. If we were going into programs where we would be prescribing psychoactive medications, there would be a much stronger emphasis on internal medicine. But as it stands, most clinical psychologists don't (and can't) prescribe medication- we have colleagues in psychiatry with whom we collaborate for that sort of thing.

 

[sunandmoon]

LOL, that's funny. I was busy taking physiology my first semester, I even learned how to read an EKG, side by side with nurse anesthetists. I'm not even working towards the RxP yet. Once I finish my clinical/med psych degree then I will still get another 2 years of training before I am qualified to have RxP. Seems pretty reasonable.

Shows your ignorance of medical psych coursework now doesn't it. Funnier still is you don't need to really know how the mind works to prescribe psychoactive meds... just take your best guess, Doc. After all you probably can differentially diagnosis schizophrenia from bi-polar I disorder with psychotic features in your sleep.

Mark

Wow!!! I am very surprised to see my fellow psychologists being so close-minded. Clinical psychology and psychiatrist are both noble professions in their own right. Now, before anyone replies to me and ASSUME that I have no clue about psychology, let it be known that I have a masters in clinical psychology plus two years of counseling. Now I am in my 4th year of medical school and will specialize in psychiatry. Firstly, medical school and graduate school are totally different. Yes, I did take neuropsychology and neurophysio in grad school. Adding some pharm classes with what we learn in grad school is not enough training IMO to prescribe medication as a psychologist. Coursework aside, physicians in training work with medication management for YEARS!!! During those "unnecessary" rotations we learn medical management and also clinical judgement that you don't get in a classroom. As a psychiatrist, I will have a fundamental knowledge of the practice of medicine.
And, sitting in a classroom with CRNAs learning pattern recognition of high yield EKG's doesn't teach you how to read an EKG, it's a primer. This is a clinical skill that is learned along with most other clinical skills in the latter half of med school and residency through lots of practice. The EKG example only illustrates a point. The whole point of E dubble's post was to highlight a previous post that stating that some of the clinical rotations were unnecessary. Its funny that you bring up CRNAs because they also want to trivialize MD/DO education as being excessive or unnecessary because it suits their political agenda. What sense does that make? I think that statement shows ignorance. Just like grad school, you don't remember everything but the knowledge is ALWAYS there and manifests as experience. In the case of a physician those unnecessary rotations only enhance our judgement and clinical acumen.

 

[deleted176373]

Wow!!! I am very surprised to see my fellow psychologists being so close-minded. Clinical psychology and psychiatrist are both noble professions in their own right. Now, before anyone replies to me and ASSUME that I have no clue about psychology, let it be known that I have a masters in clinical psychology plus two years of counseling. Now I am in my 4th year of medical school and will specialize in psychiatry. Firstly, medical school and graduate school are totally different. Yes, I did take neuropsychology and neurophysio in grad school. Adding some pharm classes with what we learn in grad school is not enough training IMO to prescribe medication as a psychologist. Coursework aside, physicians in training work with medication management for YEARS!!! During those "unnecessary" rotations we learn medical management and also clinical judgement that you don't get in a classroom. As a psychiatrist, I will have a fundamental knowledge of the practice of medicine.
And, sitting in a classroom with CRNAs learning pattern recognition of high yield EKG's doesn't teach you how to read an EKG, it's a primer. This is a clinical skill that is learned along with most other clinical skills in the latter half of med school and residency through lots of practice. The EKG example only illustrates a point. The whole point of E dubble's post was to highlight a previous post that stating that some of the clinical rotations were unnecessary. Its funny that you bring up CRNAs because they also want to trivialize MD/DO education as being excessive or unnecessary because it suits their political agenda. What sense does that make? I think that statement shows ignorance. Just like grad school, you don't remember everything but the knowledge is ALWAYS there and manifests as experience. In the case of a physician those unnecessary rotations only enhance our judgement and clinical acumen.

Don't get me wrong, I am certainly not trying to trivialize the training the MD's get in med school. I have a huge amount of respect for them and the years of rotations that they do in order to have the knowledge that they gain.

What I was railing about was the idea that "we" as medical and clinical psychologists would be unable to communicate effectively with doctors and that as psychologists would have nothing to add as a profession. My point to be more brief is that we each have areas of expertise, and that expertise is valuable.

There are times that psychologists need (and want) the input of medical doctors and vice versa. It would be foolish to believe that either could exist in a vacuum.

Mark

 

[socialcog]

I do not care what anyone says.....I prefer apples over oranges. It is a fact that they are better.

What are we talking about? This is a bit silly.

 

[sunandmoon]

Graduate school for psychology and med school are two very different things and they train different skillsets.

Med school is about cramming in as much clinically relevant data about the body in four years as possible. . . with residency acting as a funnel for specialization with emphasis on repetition to minimize error in certain specialities and repetition for diagnostic accuracy, etc. . .

Graduate school for psychology is a different animal. The PsyD is sort of modeled off of both the MD and PhD psychology worlds. It's still a head-scratcher to me. The PhD is promotes a different way of approaching problems.

As for whether psychologists in a Med setting can communicate with other medical professionals, that's definitely a yes as is relevant to their casework. I've spent years with neurologists and psychiatrists, reading their reports (looking up information and asking questions), attending rounds, attending grand rounds, doing medical research, attending medically-relevant conferences, etc. . . I know enough to contribute in the capacity that I am supposed to contribute. I also know enough to interpret and evaluate the reports that I read. I would be completely lost if you threw OBGYN reports at me, but I haven't come across a situation in which I needed to know that.

Well said.