Why would anyone do an emergency medicine residency?

[Fox800]

I am all about placing appropriate limits on app scope of practice but a medical student is not far more qualified to practice independently than an NP. You don't know what you don't know. Would be super curious to find out where a medical student gets that number of intubations so I can reccomend it to others though.

Found the NP.

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[jw3600]

Ah yes the 25 year old NP with an art history degree, 2 year nursing degree, and online credits in nursing theory. Let her run wild!

^ real life example

 

[Vandalia]

So should we take a flip position that medicine is very easy? And that most of medical education is a waste of time?

No, quite the opposite. But I can prove it has value and I can prove that hiring me is best for the hospital and for the patient. Or I should be able to.

Far too often physicians end up sounding like the orthopedic surgery parody skit we did in medical school:

So why should we staff solely with MDs instead of CRNAs? Me physician. Me better. Lots of diplomas.
OK... but specifically how would that make a difference to patient care? Residency. Lots of bills. Big student loans.
But what, you are more efficient, shorter hospital stays, what? Lots of diplomas. Step III.

Instead of, "We should stay MD only because even though CRNAs get paid less, when you factor in productivity, shorter hospital stays on the DRGs, better patient satisfaction, and a much lower chance of bad badness, MDs end up being the better value." But they couldn't move past "Medical school, residency, better."

 

[GeneralVeers]

Instead of, "We should stay MD only because even though CRNAs get paid less, when you factor in productivity, shorter hospital stays on the DRGs, better patient satisfaction, and a much lower chance of bad badness, MDs end up being the better value." But they couldn't move past "Medical school, residency, better."

The difficulty is that we have to sell this to the people running the hospital, meaning NURSES, and non-clinical MBA-type people who don't even understand what we do.

 

[RustedFox]

The difficulty is that we have to sell this to the people running the hospital, meaning NURSES, and non-clinical MBA-type people who don't even understand what we do.

This.

I hate to say it, but I've said it before and it bears repeating.

The only way that this is going to change is to let the MLP crowd kill and maim patients, then let the muggles have their righteous indignation. Then, the MLPs will get back in line. That's how things work in America.

 

[Vandalia]

The difficulty is that we have to sell this to the people running the hospital, meaning NURSES, and non-clinical MBA-type people who don't even understand what we do.

That is sort of the point. You can talk about medical terminology all you want and their eyes will glaze over, but give them numbers and they are happy. To be honest, they really don't even have to be the most accurate numbers. Or even make any sense.

"Well we were 72% more productive than the NP's, and the stay for our DRG patients was 79% less and utilization of the Allen test was 213% higher." "Oh, ok, that is fine."

Now, should we be here? Of course not. But you have to play the short game AND the long game.

The only way that this is going to change is to let the MLP crowd kill and maim patients, then let the muggles have their righteous indignation. Then, the MLPs will get back in line. That's how things work in America.

Absolutely. I would bet my house on that. But you need to stay afloat until that happens. And document. That is the most important point, document.

 

[pkm296]

Ah yes the 25 year old NP with an art history degree, 2 year nursing degree, and online credits in nursing theory. Let her run wild!

^ real life example

The advantage of my liberal arts degree is that I got lots of practice responding to people with opposing view points without attacking their credentials. Maybe you should go back to school and try it? You are wrong on all counts by the way. Only attack you can legitimately try is that I'm a very young attending. thankfully I wasn't so focused on qualifications that I didn't learn from the experienced app's I worked with as a resident. Do I think they should have independent practice? Of course not. Limitations are important. Do I think a 4th year medical student with no experience actually being responsible for patients is vastly more qualified bc they spent more time I the classroom? No.

I have to ask do you actually work with medical students or in academics at all?

Also exposure to procedures doesn't make you more qualified (apologies in advance to those who say they struggle with procedures). one of my favorite attendings used to say you can teach a monkey to intubate or put in a chest tube.The extra time you spent in a classroom doesn't make you intrinsically more skilled at something. what it does do is give you a knowledge base that when you add experience allows you to learn the nuances of the field and build your own gestault about things.

 

[Apollyon]

The advantage of my liberal arts degree is that I got lots of practice responding to people with opposing view points without attacking their credentials. Maybe you should go back to school and try it?

Wow - hypocrite much? Do you see what you did there? You wrote "...without attacking their credentials", and, then, next sentence, you...attack someone's credentials.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I am all about placing appropriate limits on app scope of practice but a medical student is not far more qualified to practice independently than an NP. You don't know what you don't know. Would be super curious to find out where a medical student gets that number of intubations so I can reccomend it to others though.

lol whaatt ??
I 100.0% consider myself far more qualified when it comes to diagnosis and management than an NP or PA. Would consider it beyond pointless to be seen by a midlevel for a medical complaint about myself or a family member. I mean it's always fun presenting a history to a midlevel (not for precepting purposes) and having them give a clueless blank stare when I name off the patient's medical history and it's so obvious they don't have a clue what any of those illnesses are.

And the ER/ICU provide intubations when the opportunity arises. The OR provides them in large numbers. I have intubated in all 3 settings.

What it comes down to is - as an NP you have like 1/10th the training a medical student does. How on earth could you possibly be more qualified?

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

While I agree with most of that- most NPs or PAs haven’t seen what? I’m just an RN, and I’ve seen so many intubations, chest tube insertions, etc that I couldn’t even give an accurate estimate. What kind of PA or NP hasn’t seen those (if that’s what you mean)?

Plenty I've come across. And seeing something = / = doing, as I'm sure you know. I watched a central line on youtube and in person like 15x and still struggled the first time.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Oh definitely. I mean I’ve had docs tell me pointers of doing them, but yeah I know it’s something far from what I’m ready to do.

I just wonder where these NPs come from.

 

[docbsb2015]

I am all about placing appropriate limits on app scope of practice but a medical student is not far more qualified to practice independently than an NP. You don't know what you don't know. Would be super curious to find out where a medical student gets that number of intubations so I can reccomend it to others though.

...anesthesia rotations... I'm probably near triple digit intubations including ~20 peds tubes.

 

[pkm296]

Wow - hypocrite much? Do you see what you did there? You wrote "...without attacking their credentials", and, then, next sentence, you...attack someone's credentials.

I actually wasn't intending to attack someone who is presumably a physician's credentials. More meant that school was the last time I really got to spend hours sitting around debating things not on online. Regardless the comment was in poor taste and should have been left out. I apologize.

The question about practice location was genuine. If the poster is telling me they work in academics then perhaps they have more experience working with medical students than I? Perhaps some of the synthesis I remember as happening in residency happen earlier.

What it comes down to is - as an NP you have like 1/10th the training a medical student does. How on earth could you possibly be more qualified?

Not arguing that they are more qualified than a medical student. Just that a medical student is not vastly more qualified than an experienced NP. There is huge learning curve in residency.

 

[Fox800]

I actually wasn't intending to attack someone who is presumably a physician's credentials. More meant that school was the last time I really got to spend hours sitting around debating things not on online. Regardless the comment was in poor taste and should have been left out. I apologize.

The question about practice location was genuine. If the poster is telling me they work in academics then perhaps they have more experience working with medical students than I? Perhaps some of the synthesis I remember as happening in residency happen earlier.



Not arguing that they are more qualified than a medical student. Just that a medical student is not vastly more qualified than an experienced NP. There is huge learning curve in residency.

A senior medical student is vastly better-educated than an NP about general medical practice. Full-stop.

 

[miacomet]

A senior medical student is vastly better-educated than an NP about general medical practice. Full-stop.

This. NPs can go straight through with an online program with just a few hundred patient care hours, no science classes, and no instruction in critical thinking. NPs have really dumbed down their curriculum. So far it's working and they are America's sweethearts, but let's hope they do themselves in with their complete incompetence.

 

[docbsb2015]

I dated an NP student for awhile. I remember their pre-clinincal tests were 2 and a half hours open book, 40 questions and you can take it online from home. This person also continued to work full time as a nurse throughout the duration of NP school if that says anything...

 

[Apollyon]

I actually wasn't intending to attack someone who is presumably a physician's credentials. More meant that school was the last time I really got to spend hours sitting around debating things not on online. Regardless the comment was in poor taste and should have been left out. I apologize.

I have to be honest - this is one of the more gracious responses that I've seen over my (many) years on SDN.

And, to anyone who thinks this person is an NP, I direct you to search her other posts.

 

[Groove]

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people of low ability have illusory superiority and mistakenly assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is.

 

[Vandalia]

This. NPs can go straight through with an online program with just a few hundred patient care hours, no science classes, and no instruction in critical thinking. NPs have really dumbed down their curriculum. So far it's working and they are America's sweethearts, but let's hope they do themselves in with their complete incompetence.

Not to pile on, but:

My barber was bragging about his granddaughter. Fine and natural. She would graduate from "NP school" this December and start her one year internship in January. "She was going to do it at the clinic her sister works at, but the preceptor had to have been an NP for a full year, so she will do it at X for 3 months, and then in March she can spend the rest of they year with her sister."

 

[miacomet]

Not to pile on, but:

My barber was bragging about his granddaughter. Fine and natural. She would graduate from "NP school" this December and start her one year internship in January. "She was going to do it at the clinic her sister works at, but the preceptor had to have been an NP for a full year, so she will do it at X for 3 months, and then in March she can spend the rest of they year with her sister."

Idiocracy

 

[RNtoMD87]

For these reasons I don’t understand why RNs or NPs who choose to go to med school are grilled “why’d you go nursing and now you want to be a doctor?”

Seems like we would be respected, for not choosing the easy path. If it were about money, I think nursing is a better option all things considered.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

This.

I hate to say it, but I've said it before and it bears repeating.

The only way that this is going to change is to let the MLP crowd kill and maim patients, then let the muggles have their righteous indignation. Then, the MLPs will get back in line. That's how things work in America.

Yup. You want independence? Have at it. That means ZERO asking me any questions. You're on your own.

Not to pile on, but:

My barber was bragging about his granddaughter. Fine and natural. She would graduate from "NP school" this December and start her one year internship in January. "She was going to do it at the clinic her sister works at, but the preceptor had to have been an NP for a full year, so she will do it at X for 3 months, and then in March she can spend the rest of they year with her sister."

LOL. What a travesty.

 

[miacomet]

Midlevels seem like petulant children testing boundaries. They want independence, but only if someone else is there to clean up the mess.

 

[miacomet]

For these reasons I don’t understand why RNs or NPs who choose to go to med school are grilled “why’d you go nursing and now you want to be a doctor?”

Seems like we would be respected, for not choosing the easy path. If it were about money, I think nursing is a better option all things considered.

Absolutely, nurses make a killing. Two years of school, 150k a year, no liability, and a union?
I think they are simply asking why someone wants to switch fields. I'm sure they'd ask an engineer the same question.

 

[RustedFox]

Absolutely, nurses make a killing. Two years of school, 150k a year, no liability, and a union?
I think they are simply asking why someone wants to switch fields. I'm sure they'd ask an engineer the same question.

Calmate.

150K might be closer to the reality in that dystopian looney bin of NYC that you love, where a hot dog is 12.75 and it costs 5.50 every ten yards of sidewalk just to breathe, but in the rest of the sane world, the average RN makes 68k.

How Much Can a Registered Nurse Expect to Get Paid?

 

[Vandalia]

Calmate.

150K might be closer to the reality in that dystopian looney bin of NYC that you love, where a hot dog is 12.75 and it costs 5.50 every ten yards of sidewalk just to breathe, but in the rest of the sane world, the average RN makes 68k.

How Much Can a Registered Nurse Expect to Get Paid?

Yeah, I think I posted the site for one state where I worked where a hospital has to report the name and the salary of every employee who makes more than $55K a year. The nurses were all in the $55-65K range. Sure a VP for Nursing might make around $150K, but that is a very different situation.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Absolutely, nurses make a killing. Two years of school, 150k a year, no liability, and a union?
I think they are simply asking why someone wants to switch fields. I'm sure they'd ask an engineer the same question.

Calmate.

150K might be closer to the reality in that dystopian looney bin of NYC that you love, where a hot dog is 12.75 and it costs 5.50 every ten yards of sidewalk just to breathe, but in the rest of the sane world, the average RN makes 68k.

How Much Can a Registered Nurse Expect to Get Paid?

i made 115k in Louisiana my first year out of school.. I believe we have the second lowest standard of living in the US.

The average nurse gets paid 68k to work THREE days per week. Who seriously works that little except maybe a stepford wife? I haven’t worked less than 5 days a week since I was 20 with the exception of when I was a full time student.

 

[miacomet]

Calmate.

150K might be closer to the reality in that dystopian looney bin of NYC that you love, where a hot dog is 12.75 and it costs 5.50 every ten yards of sidewalk just to breathe, but in the rest of the sane world, the average RN makes 68k.

How Much Can a Registered Nurse Expect to Get Paid?

The average salary of a nurse in California is over 100k. I know x-ray techs making 120k in California. And these people are not in the Bay Area or Los Angeles, but the Central Valley, which is a pretty cheap place to live. So, no not NYC.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

i made 115k in Louisiana my first year out of school.. I believe we have the second lowest standard of living in the US.

The average nurse gets paid 68k to work THREE days per week. Who seriously works that little except maybe a stepford wife? I haven’t worked less than 5 days a week since I was 20 with the exception of when I was a full time student.

Aren't those usually 12 hours shifts so 36 hours/week or basically full time?

 

[RNtoMD87]

Aren't those usually 12 hours shifts so 36 hours/week or basically full time?

Yeah but still, 36 hours? I mean most MDs work what 60 hours minimum? You have to compare apples to apples.

Paywise nursing can’t be beat. Comes down to job satisfaction.

 

[RNtoMD87]

A position I’m considering. Btw thats gross per week.

Can still pull overtime, but you don’t get the emergency pay anymore. But notice how much is tax free.

 

[RustedFox]

The average salary of a nurse in California is over 100k. I know x-ray techs making 120k in California. And these people are not in the Bay Area or Los Angeles, but the Central Valley, which is a pretty cheap place to live. So, no not NYC.

I love you man, but you're not helping yourself here

The average salary of a nurse in California is over 100k. I know x-ray techs making 120k in California. And these people are not in the Bay Area or Los Angeles, but the Central Valley, which is a pretty cheap place to live. So, no not NYC.

Sounds like CA is as screwed up as NYC is... which, surprises nobody here.

How much in taxes do they pay in commiefornia again? Something like 13% before federal?

Now, I love your posts. But; if the highest average is in cali at 100k, then where are you getting this 150k average from?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Yeah but still, 36 hours? I mean most MDs work what 60 hours minimum? You have to compare apples to apples.

Paywise nursing can’t be beat. Comes down to job satisfaction.

And most doctors make way more than that. I mean, I'm a family doctor and I make over double in a week what your job posting there makes, and that's including those housing/meal stipends. If we go by pure hourly rate, I'm paid over 5X what that nurse would be, excluding benefits.

I mean the docs here complain if they see postings for less than $200/hr. Their lowest hourly rate is an order of magnitude more than that nursing hourly rate.

 

[RNtoMD87]

And most doctors make way more than that. I mean, I'm a family doctor and I make over double in a week what your job posting there makes, and that's including those housing/meal stipends. If we go by pure hourly rate, I'm paid over 5X what that nurse would be, excluding benefits.

I mean the docs here complain if they see postings for less than $200/hr. Their lowest hourly rate is an order of magnitude more than that nursing hourly rate.

Right. Now let’s factor in years of lost wages, insurance, debt, etc.

My cousins wife is a first year resident and has over 600k in debt from med school, rent, food, etc.

Point I’m making is, in my opinion going medical for the money would be a stupid choice. Gotta be more to it than that. In the 7 years of extra schooling it would take me to be a doctor I could be 750,000 or so richer, and that’s before residency. Just looking up until medical school.

Even starting off at the same point at 18, it takes awhile for medical to become more lucrative than nursing. Nursing school only costs like 25-30k and only takes 2 years to complete. And the fact of not having insurance etc.

 

[miacomet]

I love you man, but you're not helping yourself here


Sounds like CA is as screwed up as NYC is... which, surprises nobody here.

How much in taxes do they pay in commiefornia again? Something like 13% before federal?

Now, I love your posts. But; if the highest average is in cali at 100k, then where are you getting this 150k average from?

California has a higher Q of L than flyover. Or at least better weather. I'm still unclear as to what there is to do in Amarillo or Dubuque, but whatever floats your boat.

Bay Area and Kaiser in general have salaries in that range. They also get pensions.
Sure, docs get a higher hourly (although not always), but if you count loans and 11 years of opportunity cost vs nursing, I'd say nursing wins over many medical specialties financially. All about the compounding.

 

[8741empls]

Right. Now let’s factor in years of lost wages, insurance, debt, etc.

My cousins wife is a first year resident and has over 600k in debt from med school, rent, food, etc.

Point I’m making is, in my opinion going medical for the money would be a stupid choice. Gotta be more to it than that. In the 7 years of extra schooling it would take me to be a doctor I could be 750,000 or so richer, and that’s before residency. Just looking up until medical school.

Even starting off at the same point at 18, it takes awhile for medical to become more lucrative than nursing. Nursing school only costs like 25-30k and only takes 2 years to complete. And the fact of not having insurance etc.

Dude, you might want to check your math. While I agree it’s really dumb to become a doctor for the money; the argument that a RN has a higher lifetime earning potential than a physician is just absurd, especially if we are talking hour for hour work. If you want to make the argument that it’s a better career path for other reasons go for it, but if you want to talk dollar for dollar algebra is not your friend here.

 

[Vandalia]

Right. Now let’s factor in years of lost wages, insurance, debt, etc.

My cousins wife is a first year resident and has over 600k in debt from med school, rent, food, etc.

Point I’m making is, in my opinion going medical for the money would be a stupid choice. Gotta be more to it than that. In the 7 years of extra schooling it would take me to be a doctor I could be 750,000 or so richer, and that’s before residency. Just looking up until medical school.

Even starting off at the same point at 18, it takes awhile for medical to become more lucrative than nursing. Nursing school only costs like 25-30k and only takes 2 years to complete. And the fact of not having insurance etc.

Or you could be an elementary teacher and make more than a surgeon.
Somewhere, sometime I saw someone on the internet do an analysis to show that a general surgeon made the same in his career as an elementary school teacher.

But my question is, where are they?
For reasons I have posted here previously, I don't live in the "doctor" subdivision in town. I am in the one the next level down, but despite what everyone says none of my neighbors are nurses, or teachers, or plumbers. When I visit my friends in the "upscale" subdivision and meet their friends, they are certainly not nurses, teachers, or plumbers.
I bought a new car and paid $60K for it. Not cheap, but not outlandish. At the dealership, and when getting warranty care, I have never had a nurse, teacher, or plumber sit next to me with a similar car in service.

So if all these people are making the same amount of money, long term, as physicians.... where are they?

Maybe they are smarter and are saving their money, but where does the money go then? What is the point? I have read of one or two cases in the national news of a janitor leaving a charity a million dollars, but reading my school alumni magazine, the people leaving millions for scholarship endowments are physicians. I have yet to read of a nurse leaving a $5M endowment. Sure, you can probably find, one, but not many.

So I go back to my basic question: where are these people and what are they doing with the money?

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Right. Now let’s factor in years of lost wages, insurance, debt, etc.

My cousins wife is a first year resident and has over 600k in debt from med school, rent, food, etc.

Point I’m making is, in my opinion going medical for the money would be a stupid choice. Gotta be more to it than that. In the 7 years of extra schooling it would take me to be a doctor I could be 750,000 or so richer, and that’s before residency. Just looking up until medical school.

Even starting off at the same point at 18, it takes awhile for medical to become more lucrative than nursing. Nursing school only costs like 25-30k and only takes 2 years to complete. And the fact of not having insurance etc.

Careers are for money and to satisfy you. if you are 600k in debt before residency you are just horrible with money especially in this day and age.

The do anything other than medicine is just a saying Doctors who never worked any other career say. There a lot of bad jobs out their and recessions are common.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Dude, you might want to check your math. While I agree it’s really dumb to become a doctor for the money; the argument that a RN has a higher lifetime earning potential than a physician is just absurd, especially if we are talking hour for hour work. If you want to make the argument that it’s a better career path for other reasons go for it, but if you want to talk dollar for dollar algebra is not your friend here.

That’s what I’m saying. Eventually an MD will catch up, when he’s in his 50s or so, but in your younger age I think a nurse would have more if you’re considering debt.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Or you could be an elementary teacher and make more than a surgeon.
Somewhere, sometime I saw someone on the internet do an analysis to show that a general surgeon made the same in his career as an elementary school teacher.

But my question is, where are they?
For reasons I have posted here previously, I don't live in the "doctor" subdivision in town. I am in the one the next level down, but despite what everyone says none of my neighbors are nurses, or teachers, or plumbers. When I visit my friends in the "upscale" subdivision and meet their friends, they are certainly not nurses, teachers, or plumbers.
I bought a new car and paid $60K for it. Not cheap, but not outlandish. At the dealership, and when getting warranty care, I have never had a nurse, teacher, or plumber sit next to me with a similar car in service.

So if all these people are making the same amount of money, long term, as physicians.... where are they?

Maybe they are smarter and are saving their money, but where does the money go then? What is the point? I have read of one or two cases in the national news of a janitor leaving a charity a million dollars, but reading my school alumni magazine, the people leaving millions for scholarship endowments are physicians. I have yet to read of a nurse leaving a $5M endowment. Sure, you can probably find, one, but not many.

So I go back to my basic question: where are these people and what are they doing with the money?

A lot of doctors that are wealthy had wealthy parents that set them up. A guy I went to high school with had an MD dad, and he went to med school and his brother went pharm, and they had NO debt thanks to daddy. But someone that came from a modest upbringing? I doubt you’ll have that kind of wealth unless you’re talking about combining medicine with business management.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Careers are for money and to satisfy you. if you are 600k in debt before residency you are just horrible with money especially in this day and age.

The do anything other than medicine is just a saying Doctors who never worked any other career say. There a lot of bad jobs out their and recessions are common.

Oh I definitely agree. I’m not by any means saying medicine is a bad career, and I hate when people say that also. Just as much as when I hear nurses whine about not making enough, etc. We all live amazingly well. I still remember making 30,000 a year in Iraq thinking I was making bank because at the peak of his career my dad made 40, and I was only 20 years old.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Careers are for money and to satisfy you. if you are 600k in debt before residency you are just horrible with money especially in this day and age.

The do anything other than medicine is just a saying Doctors who never worked any other career say. There a lot of bad jobs out their and recessions are common.

I misspoke, she said that when she finishes her residency she will be starting as an attending with 600k in debt. Which still seems like a lot to me, but I live on red beans out of the can, rice, etc. I only spend maybe 150 bucks a month on food. Most people aren’t willing to live like that I’ve noticed. Entitlement country.

 

[Vandalia]

A lot of doctors that are wealthy had wealthy parents that set them up. A guy I went to high school with had an MD dad, and he went to med school and his brother went pharm, and they had NO debt thanks to daddy. But someone that came from a modest upbringing? I doubt you’ll have that kind of wealth unless you’re talking about combining medicine with business management.

Well, I had no debt because I went through the military, like a lot of my contemporaries.
My one friend in the "top of the line" neighborhood's father was a coal miner, so was his father in law.
A second friend's parent's were both school teachers.
They don't have any side businesses, and they are primary care.

In fact, thinking of my medical school class, I don't remember many/any who fit the "rich description." Those whose father was a physician were more of the "two chickens for a visit" category.

Since I used to leave on occasion when most were pulling in, I didn't see anyone, including our new physician hires, driving a 2000 Ford Focus. I also don't recall any whose parents would meet the "independently wealthy" category.

 

[miacomet]

Well, I had no debt because I went through the military, like a lot of my contemporaries.
My one friend in the "top of the line" neighborhood's father was a coal miner, so was his father in law.
A second friend's parent's were both school teachers.
They don't have any side businesses, and they are primary care.

In fact, thinking of my medical school class, I don't remember many/any who fit the "rich description." Those whose father was a physician were more of the "two chickens for a visit" category.

Since I used to leave on occasion when most were pulling in, I didn't see anyone, including our new physician hires, driving a 2000 Ford Focus. I also don't recall any whose parents would meet the "independently wealthy" category.

My medschool class was full of wealthy folks both from the US and abroad. Not just UMC-doc well off, but runs-their-own-bank wealthy.

 

[alpinism]

My medschool class was full of wealthy folks both from the US and abroad. Not just UMC-doc well off, but runs-their-own-bank wealthy.

Had the same experience and at least 75% of my classmates had at least 1 MD parent helping to pay for tuition.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Or you could be an elementary teacher and make more than a surgeon.
Somewhere, sometime I saw someone on the internet do an analysis to show that a general surgeon made the same in his career as an elementary school teacher[...]

Maybe you're thinking of this infographic (teacher vs. primary care doc)? It was spread pretty widely a few years back. Kind of outlandish in some of the assumptions but otherwise interesting.
https://bmd.bestmedicaldegrees.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Deceptive-Salary-of-Doctors.jpg

 

[RustedFox]

My medschool class was full of wealthy folks both from the US and abroad. Not just UMC-doc well off, but runs-their-own-bank wealthy.

Had the same experience and at least 75% of my classmates had at least 1 MD parent helping to pay for tuition.

Yep.
A lot (I dunno, I'm going to guess half) of my med school class were folks who had an MD in the family and were otherwise "obligated to follow in the family profession" rather than do what they wanted to do with their own lives. I especially hated these folks, who seemed to have limited to zero interest in being there, but were there because it would bring disappointment/dishonor to the family if they weren't. They loved to drive their luxury vehicles around campus, though - and party hard. We had some terms for these folks (especially the girls), but I can't post them here because the P.C. police would ban me fast. Such is life in 2018.

 

[RustedFox]

I misspoke, she said that when she finishes her residency she will be starting as an attending with 600k in debt. Which still seems like a lot to me, but I live on red beans out of the can, rice, etc. I only spend maybe 150 bucks a month on food. Most people aren’t willing to live like that I’ve noticed. Entitlement country.

My wife (chef) gets occasionally upset with me when she finds me dumping onions and carrots into a pot of ramen noodles.

"Why didn't you tell me that you were hungry? I would have made you something better."

"Babe... It doesn't get any better than this."

I hear you, amigo.

 

[RNtoMD87]

My wife (chef) gets occasionally upset with me when she finds me dumping onions and carrots into a pot of ramen noodles.

"Why didn't you tell me that you were hungry? I would have made you something better."

"Babe... It doesn't get any better than this."

I hear you, amigo.

Yep. Growing up virtually all I ever ate was squirrel gravy and rice, baked coon, red beans and rice, jumbalaya, moms home recipe vegetable beef/venison soup, chicken and dumplings, etc and I used to complain (mostly because a pot would last 3-4 days.) and I went hog wild when I turned 17 and had my first job. Ate fast food all the time. Didn’t take but a few years for me to grow tired of all that garbage and want real food again.

 

[docbsb2015]

My wife (chef) gets occasionally upset with me when she finds me dumping onions and carrots into a pot of ramen noodles.

"Why didn't you tell me that you were hungry? I would have made you something better."

"Babe... It doesn't get any better than this."

I hear you, amigo.

Your wife is a chef? That's what we call living your best life.