Why You Shouldn't Base Your Choice of School or Specialty Soley on Loan Debt

[Kuba]

Holy crap......thank you JP. *bows down*

talk to you when you finishing your GED and prereqs.

Ok, well I guess this has turned into a bash kuba forum by SDNs most noble posters so I shall bow out.

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[Dr.Inviz]

talk to you when you finishing your GED and prereqs.

Ok, well I guess this has turned into a bash kuba forum by SDNs most noble posters so I shall bow out.

Nah, this thread was "secretly" an excuse for 4-5 pissant arguments in 1 thread. Nothing unusual.

However, there is some useful information in this thread, mostly on the part of JP.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

It will however destroy Americas great medical system (while its far from perfect it the best in the world period).

Can you cite anything to back that up?

 

[MJB]

Universal health care does not mean there won't be private medical groups who choose to cater to cash customers (I chose this word carefully). It will however destroy Americas great medical system (while its far from perfect it the best in the world period).

Do we know any of that as fact?

Just wondering.

 

[spicedmanna]

If you want to be NEEDED in medicine, specialize and then sub-specialize. Make yourself a rarity!

Eh, I'm not sure what you are talking about, even with the implementation of a different healthcare scheme. I think one of the issues with our current healthcare system, an issue which stands to get worse as the population continues to expand and age, is that there aren't enough primary care doctors in the right areas. True, these medically-underserved areas I'm talking about are also lacking in other specialists, too, but by-in-large, it is PCP's that are needed. In fact, wasn't there a projection on the order of 29% increase in the need for PCP's in the next 15 years, or something?

 

[spicedmanna]

Do we know any of that as fact?

Just wondering.

Exactly.

 

[spicedmanna]

I said "Soley".

I know and that was part of the point I was making. Are there that many people who would make a choice of school and/or residency purely for financial reasons? It's never that simple and if one wants to make financial reasons the sole factor, they are pretty much a fool anyway.

 

[MJB]

Eh, I'm not sure what you are talking about, even with the implementation of a different healthcare scheme. I think one of the issues with our current healthcare system, an issue which stands to get worse as the population continues to expand and age, is that there aren't enough primary care doctors in the right areas. True, these medically-underserved areas I'm talking about are also lacking in other specialists, too, but by-in-large, it is PCP's that are needed. In fact, wasn't there a projection on the order of 29% increase in the need for PCP's in the next 15 years, or something?

This is my understanding as well, and if the POS type of plans go away...it's only going to be worse if everyone needs referrals just to see a specialist.

 

[HarveyCushing]

What effect will Walmart's decision to open clinics in their stores have on the PC field? I am guessing PC physicians are gonna take an even greater hit.

 

[spicedmanna]

What effect will Walmart's decision to open clinics in their stores have on the PC field? I am guessing PC physicians are gonna take an even greater hit.

I think they will stick to hiring midlevels. Their capacity to practice would be pretty much limited to basics and they would still need to consult with a PCP for chart review, oversight, and for the more non-ordinary cases. If you want to cover your bases, then do med-peds, or some other type of residency that allows you to be a hospitalist as well as an outpatient family clinician. On the other hand, there are areas in the United States that desperately need physicians of any kind, PCP's in particular. If you work in those areas, I don't think you'll have to worry about competition with Walmart.

 

[PlAnEjaNe]

You can say what you like Tweety but Im going to stick to reality.

Student loan debt for any doctor, especially FP, is not something to take lightly.

The fact is the numbers support what I am trying to get across to people.

$2,000/month in loans
$2,000/month (or more) for mortgage
$400-500/month for car
$300/month for bills
Supplemental malpractice
Expenses (food, gas, clothing)
Now how about life insurance, disability insurance, car insurance, homeowners insurance
401K and other retirement plans

$6000/month net salary sounds great but once you start doing the math it goes quick. (And yes, I have personal experience with this)

Have you researched these loan forgiveness programs? I know I have...quite a bit in fact. Ever read the small print? Its not for everyone.

So you tell premeds to be wary of me? Thats fine.

At least I am the one living in reality.

Youre off in loan repayment fairy land. I hear the weather is nice.

I am sorry but I have to agree with JPHazelton here, I have a mortgage, car payment, car insurance, home owner's insurance, etc. etc. etc. Oh, and I have a dependent as well. You might think that 120k looks like a lot, but you are in the upper tax bracket with that 120k, which means they will tax the hell out of you, yeah school loans are a tax break, but it is negligible compared to how much you owe. Also, if you are single, white, and male, forget about it!! You might as well get a roommate!. The money dries up quickly, the issue isn't how much you make, but how you manage what you make. If you are fiscally responsible you won't have to worry about going bankrupt, but if you are fiscally irresponsible, you will be a very poor physician. I think the problem is that most of you have never been attached to such a large loan amount before, but people do it everyday to buy their homes. You just have to be responsible..whether you make 120k or 300k...that's the key.


-PlAnEjaNe

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

I think they will stick to hiring midlevels. Their capacity to practice would be pretty much limited to basics and they would still need to consult with a PCP for chart review, oversight, and for the more non-ordinary cases. If you want to cover your bases, then do med-peds, or some other type of residency that allows you to be a hospitalist as well as an outpatient family clinician. On the other hand, there are areas in the United States that desperately need physicians of any kind, PCP's in particular. If you work in those areas, I don't think you'll have to worry about competition with Walmart.

I agree here because, because walmart has all the money in the world and any malpractice lawyer would love to take a shot at it. So with that said, walmart will probably implement a very strict guideline with what they can and cannot do even if they (PA/NP) think they can handle it.

 

[HarveyCushing]

I think they will stick to hiring midlevels. Their capacity to practice would be pretty much limited to basics and they would still need to consult with a PCP for chart review, oversight, and for the more non-ordinary cases. If you want to cover your bases, then do med-peds, or some other type of residency that allows you to be a hospitalist as well as an outpatient family clinician. On the other hand, there are areas in the United States that desperately need physicians of any kind, PCP's in particular. If you work in those areas, I don't think you'll have to worry about competition with Walmart.

Yeah I totally agree with you. I had lunch with a family friend this weekend who is a FP. He was telling my family how it is harder and harder to actually make a profit as a FP in the suburbs of Chicago due to the concentration of physicians. I completely agree that if one goes to a more rural setting that it would be easier to make a living. But for some this isn't always an option.

 

[HarveyCushing]

I agree here because, because walmart has all the money in the world and any malpractice lawyer would love to take a shot at it. So with that said, walmart will probably implement a very strict guideline with what they can and cannot do even if they (PA/NP) think they can handle it.

That is what I hope. I would hate to see PC physicians loose patients to a store like Walmart that thinks it can throw up a clinic and staff it with PA/NPs and think that the medical community won't care. I hope that the AAFP will put up a fight about what a PA/NP can do.

 

[Dr JPH]

I am sorry but I have to agree with JPHazelton here, I have a mortgage, car payment, car insurance, home owner's insurance, etc. etc. etc. Oh, and I have a dependent as well. You might think that 120k looks like a lot, but you are in the upper tax bracket with that 120k, which means they will tax the hell out of you, yeah school loans are a tax break, but it is negligible compared to how much you owe. Also, if you are single, white, and male, forget about it!! You might as well get a roommate!. The money dries up quickly, the issue isn't how much you make, but how you manage what you make. If you are fiscally responsible you won't have to worry about going bankrupt, but if you are fiscally irresponsible, you will be a very poor physician. I think the problem is that most of you have never been attached to such a large loan amount before, but people do it everyday to buy their homes. You just have to be responsible..whether you make 120k or 300k...that's the key.


-PlAnEjaNe

I think its a totally different outlook once you have the financial responsibilities AND you see the paycheck coming in every month.

Sitting back and thinking a six figure salary will cover all of your expenses is nice, but it doesnt always add up.

$120,000 doesnt mean you will get 10K/month. Hardly. You might get 6K after the government bends you over.

My wife and I bought our house with 0 money down. Luckily we got a decent interest rate on our mortgage and our home has appreciated (not everyone can say that nowadays) but that doesnt mean a whole lot.

We have 2 cars + gas, the house, students loans (both of us), credit cards, cable bill, phone bill, cell phones, alarm company (go philadelphia), car insurance (again...in philly), property taxes, food, clothing, electric, water, heat, home maintenance costs. Plus we have 2 cats that eat more food than I ever thought possible from such a small animal.

$120,000 isnt a magic number. A six figure salary doesnt always cut it.

The argument made by my counterpart is that LOTS of people make far less and "do ok". Well, yes and no.

It IS all about financial management. What car do you want to drive? Where do you want to live? Do you need cable? Do you need new clothes?

$300,000 in student loans is a monstrous number. Imagine working your way through medical school and then residency. 3 months after you become an attending you get a bill for $2,000 in the mail. Shocking. 1/3 of your monthly paycheck is gone before you even THINK about what else you have to pay.

For many people that $2,000 is a mortgage, car payment AND bills. Not you...thats just your student loans.

So will you be poor as a physician? Probably not. Will you be one paycheck from being homeless? No. But you will be held back by that student loan bill.

And JUST when youre ready to finish paying it off...you get to pay for your kids college and grad school loans.

So again...definately chose the specialty that fits you. Do what you want to do in medicine, but chose wisely. And remember that certain specialties come with certain lifestyles. I dont know any poor FPs, but I dont know any rich ones either...at least not unless they have their hands in more than just medicine.

And remember, there is no guarantee on your salary. Reimbursements for physicians are going down which means you need to see more patients to make the same money. There is no automatic pay raise every year. $120,000 is a nice number but you might not make that your first year out of residency in FP...not everywhere. I know FPs and Peds starting in Philly making $90,000.

Life is a series of choices. But to tell someone not to worry about student loans and that all they need to do is punch a few keywords in to Google and they can find someone to pay off their loans...well thats less than inaccurate, its just plain dumb.

So as said above, I choose to look at the reality of the situation. The money you spend on school is the biggest investment you will ever make. But be smart about it and make sure that investment nets you a positive return.

Remember...that $300,000 in student loan debt will be nearly 3/4 of a million dollars by the time you are done paying it off.

 

[Dr JPH]

wow, you were really threatened by my innocent little comment, huh? poor guy, its ok.

Please.

Kuba...the day I am threatened by a premed who hasnt a clue what they are in for over the next 4 years...well, thats when I will forfeit my medical degree.

I speak at colleges all the time and talk to premeds about everything from "what is a DO" to "why do you want to be a surgeon". Im not intimidated, threatened or even suprised by anything I read here on SDN. Over the last 7 years Ive found my niche on here and realized that ignorance and attitude run rampant. All I try to do is bring people back to reality when they get too far from the ground.

You, my friend, are going to be one of those people who works hard to fit in. You are opinionated and thats fine. But your opinions and comments are built on the repetition of something you read in an AOA pamphlet or online somewhere. You have nothing to base your words on that is tangible. You have thoughts, not experience. You have ideas, not evidence.

Kuba, when you come around and see that those who come before you know a lot more I think you will be better off.

You are in for a rude awakening with medical school. Its not all puppy dogs and ice cream (I love that line).

All I can hope for is that you rotate through PCOM and I get to be your resident. Then we will see who is intimidated.

 

[TweetyPie]

I think what Dr. I is saying is that you are blowing smoke up the collective SDN ass.

Yeah, I have a history here on SDN of doing just that.

It would be nice to see JPHazelton's SDN posting history he's been on SDN since ~2003....oh, but wait, he deleted all of his posts after he matched prior to 4/1/07, ~4 years of posts!

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I am sorry but I have to agree with JPHazelton here, I have a mortgage, car payment, car insurance, home owner's insurance, etc. etc. etc. Oh, and I have a dependent as well. You might think that 120k looks like a lot, but you are in the upper tax bracket with that 120k, which means they will tax the hell out of you, yeah school loans are a tax break, but it is negligible compared to how much you owe. Also, if you are single, white, and male, forget about it!! You might as well get a roommate!. The money dries up quickly, the issue isn't how much you make, but how you manage what you make. If you are fiscally responsible you won't have to worry about going bankrupt, but if you are fiscally irresponsible, you will be a very poor physician. I think the problem is that most of you have never been attached to such a large loan amount before, but people do it everyday to buy their homes. You just have to be responsible..whether you make 120k or 300k...that's the key.


-PlAnEjaNe

So I guess I missed the memo where they tax whities and men more than minorities and women. I never got the tax writeoff for being female. I guess I wasn't looking close enough.

Why did you have to ruin a perfectly good post with poor white man syndrome. If it's hard to live on $120k/year, it's hard for women and minorities, too.

 

[Dr JPH]

It would be nice to see JPHazelton's SDN posting history he's been on SDN since ~2003....oh, but wait, he deleted all of his posts after he matched prior to 4/1/07, ~4 years of posts!

What are you talking about?

Ive been here since Feb 2000 (look under my name)

I havent deleted (nor do I have the ability to delete) any of my posts. SDN only allows you to search back 350 posts.

 

[HarveyCushing]

JP, wanted to thank you for your posts in this thread. They have been very helpful and have opened a new perspective to look at things.

 

[lilnoelle]

Well, I'm hesitant to post in this firestorm.... especially when I come from the other side of the tracks, but I also have done research into some of these loan replacement programs and what I've found (only done research in the midwest) did not make me real happy. I attend a state school that offers a very generous loan repayment program which I used to be apart of. I decided I didn't want to make a decision as to what field I would work in as a first year med student and so I backed out.
So I did a little research as to what government programs (in the midwest)would repay my loans if I made a commitment after residency. The most I could find would repay $30K a year. (Other than military) Some states limited that amount to 2 years.
My loans will be nearly $300K when I graduate med school and interest will initially add about $30K a year. My loans will be greater than $400K when I begin paying them off. The loan repayment programs would only be covering the interest. Doesn't sound all that great to me. My school program was much better than that. They were covering my $36K tuition plus giving me $15000 in a yearly stipend.
Obviously I don't know anything about what hospitals or the military may offer, but state programs in the midwest weren't real generous.

 

[Dr JPH]

JP, wanted to thank you for your posts in this thread. They have been very helpful and have opened a new perspective to look at things.

Not a problem. Just trying to give people the truthful angle as opposed to the hopeful and idealistic view.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Not a problem. Just trying to give people the truthful angle as opposed to the hopeful and idealistic view.

I appreciate since there are quite a few that state not to worry about paying off your loans. How it is so easy to find a hospital to pay back your loans. That your loans should be the last thing to worry about. While I'm not even a MSI yet, I don't want to go into this blindly and without an idea of how to get out of debt. I have no interest in picking a field of medicine solely for money, however that is one of the factors that I need to consider especially with $300k in loans. I just don't see how a hospital will be willing to pay a FP ~$130k/yr and take up $300k worth of loans. Just doesn't seem like it works that easy to me.

 

[Dr JPH]

Just doesn't seem like it works that easy to me.

Youre right, it doesnt.

But dont forget the intended purpose of this post (noble yet misguided in explanation) that you should NOT pick your profession solely based on debt. But just realize that certain areas of medicine may come with their own financial hardships depending on how much debt you accrue.

I have always said that. Even before I deleted all my posts.

 

[scpod]

...But just realize that certain areas of medicine may come with their own financial hardships depending on how much debt you accrue...

There are always ways to make more money-- and it's not just improving efficiency or seeing more patients per hour. A relative of mine (by marriage) went to a Carribean school, had an awful time of getting a FP residency, but he's doing just great now. He spends most of his time doing Botox injections in Myrtle Beach, SC (OK...when he's not on one of the 350 local golf courses). I've kidded him about be coming a "*****" and he takes it pretty well. But...when you've got mouths to feed and kids to put through college you'll do what it takes-- it doesn't matter what profession you are in. Actually, his patients absolutely love him now, and they think he's God's greatest gift to medicine. Go figure.

 

[Dr JPH]

There are always ways to make more money-- and it's not just improving efficiency or seeing more patients per hour. A relative of mine (by marriage) went to a Carribean school, had an awful time of getting a FP residency, but he's doing just great now. He spends most of his time doing Botox injections in Myrtle Beach, SC (OK...when he's not on one of the 350 local golf courses). I've kidded him about be coming a "*****" and he takes it pretty well. But...when you've got mouths to feed and kids to put through college you'll do what it takes-- it doesn't matter what profession you are in. Actually, his patients absolutely love him now, and they think he's God's greatest gift to medicine. Go figure.

There are lots of doctors who have resorted to boutique style practices or doing procedures in order to pay the bills.

Luckily the educated patient population will always seek the most trained (and properly trained) individuals for their care. True, a good percentage will go where they can get a bargain but you do indeed get what you pay for.

There are dentists out there performing facelifts. Does it bother plastic surgeons? No...because they usually get the business anyway when the patient it unhappy with the results from the other guy. But at least the patients teeth are straight.

 

[FizbanZymogen]

Do we know any of that as fact?

Just wondering.

Yeah its called a combination of common sense and looking at other first world nations that have socialist medical systems. Oh, and yes this comes from my first hand experiences living in Europe as a normal Joe schmoe for 2 years. There system is nowhere near as effecient or effective as ours. Go visit a common community hospital in a normal English city for simple broken arm and then visit a community hospital in podunct USA for the same treatment. Once you've done that and come back, we'll talk. Oh and don't even get me started about socialist geriatric care (which is where it is used predominantly).

peace.

PS Dr.Inviz. your kind of a cocky little SOB. Have you even applied yet? Can't wait to see how you interview.

 

[TweetyPie]

What you need to understand is that if someone (anyone) is going to take you on as an employee and pay off your loans PLUS pay you a substantial salary, then they are going to get their money back from you in some way. Whether it be you becoming the call taker, overloading you with patients or restricting things like benefits, contract negotiaion and otherwise.

Dude, you keep referring to this as some corporate job and you keep mentioning hospital this hospital that. In a democratic group practice (not working at McDonalds), the partners don't sit in a backroom thinking (or fretting) whether they're going to get "their" money out of you.

This stuff is pretty much straight forward. The majority of docs these days choose group practices and many of them are democratic.

All of these programs sound great up front, but have you ever looked at a contract?

Tweety tells me that "all the letters are the same size on a contract" which tells me two things. #1 She is a smart ass and not interested in the truth and #2 she has never seen a contract like this before.

For those of you pre-meds who are interested in physician contracts, even at this early stage of the game, simply do a search and you'll discover that there are common areas covered that you'll find contained in most physician contracts. In this regard, it is straight-forward. Those areas can be written in any way, therefore (as I stated in an earlier post) let your attorney tell you whether it is on par with current trends.

It is not near a big of an issue as JPHazelton "the alarmist" is making it out to be. If this was a trending problem certainly we would see it widely addressed by the AOA, AMSA, AMA etc. The fact of the matter is residents do this every year and the majority (of whom most of you will be a part) have no problem.

There are indeed clauses in these contracts which will significantly alter the way you practice medicine.

Hello???....attorney....

NO ONE is going to assume your debt because they like you. No matter how desperate they are to fill a spot or recruit a doc, they arent going to take on your loans unless they know they have you wrapped up. Thats just how it works.

Seriously, are you for real. You act like that when they hire you that it will be their first experience with contract negotiations Dude, everytime they've hired someone, in most cases, the contract will be very close if not identical to the contract they gave to the last doc they hired. This stuff is routine!

Bottomline: the majority of contracts will cover standard areas. They can be negotiated in any way. Know what you are agreeing to (attorney review) especially with respect to i.e. production, call, tail. That's it.

But back to the original topic on this thread, $300,000 student loan debt is a lot for ANY physician. I was working with a plastic surgeon this weekend who told me how much his $120,000 loan debt wasn't easy to deal with.

Oh my gosh ....working with a plastic surgeon??? Plastic surgeons work on weekends (unless they're on hospital-call). Tell us JP, you matched gensurg and most of us have completed our rotations. Are you doing a plastics rotation, and if so, who is it with?

I'm not so sure you should be training with or being mentored by a plastic surgeon who has trouble paying off 120k, when he could pay off that 120k by doing a few minor procedures in 1-3 months at the most.

My loan debt is substantial, and it comes up for repayment in 3 years. I will still be in residency at that time and my monthly payment will be half of my monthly salary as a resident.

Does additional deferment mean anything to you....hardship???? And, BTW, are you telling us that you are worried about an ~$2000/mo. payment when your wife is pulling in $120,000.

I know what you can do with your money when you make $120,000/year. I see that paycheck every 2 weeks (not mine, but it belongs to my better half). It doesnt go as far as you might think.

I simply don't believe this, sorry. My class had a few attorneys and one had to resort to scribing lectures, not because she couldn't pull in that kind of salary, but because she wasn't stable enough geographically to be hired by a firm. She was only here for two years. So, JP:

(1) what does your wife do?
(2) Where did you and wife do your undergrad?

I have yet to meet a physician in any field who doesnt feel the same. Most of them have come to terms with the fact that they will have a significant monthly loan payment and leave it at that.

And you've had a conversation about debt with a doc from every field

Now I will sit back and wait for her to come back with belittling and sarcastic remarks.

For those who have just joined us, please refer JPHazelton's arrogant, first post in response to my OP of this thread of which he opened with the first salvo of, can I say, a belittling remark and a sarcastic emoticon:

Your intentions are good but your thought process is skewed.

Sticky this thread? Hardly.

AND

Agreed. Your post is not completely wasted.

I think Tweety has good intentions and she is definately correct in saying that you shouldnt let money dictate your specialty choice, but to make it sound like its not important or something that you shouldnt worry about is irresponsible.

I have no motivation for telling people these things. Whats the benefit to me? I simply want to state the truth and let younger students know that the student loan money we accrue is no joke.

Tweety...dont give the younger generation false hope that someone out there will assume their debt. If you have truly researched this I dont see how you can, in good conscience, say that to be true.

Trust me when I say it is not as easy as Tweety makes it sound.

Blather....blather....blather....Boy, this is fun

 

[Dr JPH]

Tweety...tell me again how I deleted my posts?

You have already lost all credibility with anyone reading this thread.

Time to pack it in and admit defeat.

 

[Dr JPH]

And Tweety...please dont PM me with Bible verse again. I dont understand it nor do I appreciate it.

 

[TweetyPie]

As for the loan repayment deals...I have to admit that I've never seen the contract details, but I can say that the folks I've spoken with about them that have taken advantage of them seem very happy and don't say, or even act like they are being asked to do anything other than do their jobs.

One doc I know came here and they paid his loans, and he's been voted the best physician in the hospital for a couple years running, so I'd say the hospital got a pretty good deal. He sees 30+ patients a day...so he's billing plenty I would guess.

I guess there really is no hard and fast rule on this, and it's up to each person to research their options.
Just like I wouldn't recommend applying anywhere that you wouldn't move to in a heartbeat, I wouldn't enter into an agreement without knowing where you'll live, but that's just me. To me, that's why the Military and HPSP are not good options.

Now here's a post based upon not only reality, but well reasoned out. Kudos

 

[Dr JPH]

Now here's a post based upon not only reality, but well reasoned out. Kudos

One post.

 

[TweetyPie]

I love how everyone assumes FP salaries will always continue to increase. You better rethink that assumption as I really believe we are headed for some serious changes in PC over the next 10-20 years. If you want to be NEEDED in medicine, specialize and then sub-specialize. Make yourself a rarity!

If you are referring to my statement that an FP's salary will increase from his/her first year of employment til retirement, it will indeed. However, across the board I think you are right. In general, they could very well go down that time span.

And I'm so glad that the sub-specialty I chose (or rather it chose me) happens to be a perfect fit to my interest, passions, temperment, & skills.

 

[Dr JPH]

And I'm so glad that the sub-specialty I chose (or rather it chose me) happens to be a perfect fit to my interest, passions, temperment, & skills.

Let me guess...Psych?

 

[TweetyPie]

I know and that was part of the point I was making. Are there that many people who would make a choice of school and/or residency purely for financial reasons? It's never that simple and if one wants to make financial reasons the sole factor, they are pretty much a fool anyway.

As I vaguely alluded to in my OP, this thread was started in response to the thread entitled, "UNECOM: The most expensive COM in the known universe", which I didn't want to post in as it may have been overlooked and watered down. So, in the context of that thread there is indeed indication that someone would, for example, with all other factors being equal use the remaining sole factor of tuition as a deciding factor for not attending a particular school.

But since my OP speaks to choosing specialties as well. Folks indeed have used their misplaced fear in their ability to manage their loan obligations as a sole factor in choosing a speciality.

 

[Animus]

This thread has been a joy to read and all of the opinions and experiences people have given are great info to consider for the future.

I would, however, have to take JP's side in this thread overall. I mean any person who wants to be safe and sure of themselves is going to err on the side of caution.

I know my goal even before this thread was to be as cheap as I can be in medical school. Then live like a pauper however long it takes after residency in order to pay my loans back asap. I am the kind of person that hates to be in debt and will do what I can to erase it as fast as I can. I definitely do not want to be paying it off over 25-30 years and accrue 80k in interest.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Let me guess...Psych?

To be honest, JP is the only one that has actually posted intelligent comments. It seems like Tweety is just being troll today.

 

[Dr JPH]

To be honest, JP is the only one that has actually posted intelligent comments. It seems like Tweety is just being troll today.

Youre lucky...she didnt send you Bible verse! (confusing verse at that)

 

[MJB]

To be honest, JP is the only one that has actually posted intelligent comments. It seems like Tweety is just being troll today.

Thanks.

 

[HarveyCushing]

This thread has been a joy to read and all of the opinions and experiences people have given are great info to consider for the future.

I would, however, have to take JP's side in this thread overall. I mean any person who wants to be safe and sure of themselves is going to err on the side of caution.

I know my goal even before this thread was to be as cheap as I can be in medical school. Then live like a pauper however long it takes after residency in order to pay my loans back asap. I am the kind of person that hates to be in debt and will do what I can to erase it as fast as I can. I definitely do not want to be paying it off over 25-30 years and accrue 80k in interest.

I completely agree with you. I will try to live as cheaply as possible. However the $38k+ per year for tuition is non-negotiable. Living expenses is really the only place we can try to save some money and I think from a liberal estimate we could probably save ~$2-3k a year from the schools estimate. But that means really scrapping by. I guess things will be different once one gets married and can cut the living expenses out to some degree.

 

[Dr JPH]

I guess things will be different once one gets married and can cut the living expenses out to some degree.

HA!

Guess again.

Marriage = more money out of pocket!

 

[Animus]

I completely agree with you. I will try to live as cheaply as possible. However the $38k+ per year for tuition is non-negotiable. Living expenses is really the only place we can try to save some money and I think from a liberal estimate we could probably save ~$2-3k a year from the schools estimate. But that means really scrapping by. I guess things will be different once one gets married and can cut the living expenses out to some degree.

Yeah, you do what you can where you can I guess. I think a big thing is going to be living close to campus. I heard today that gas is going to be at $4 by as early as the end of the summer.

 

[TweetyPie]

I speak at colleges all the time and talk to premeds about everything from "what is a DO" to "why do you want to be a surgeon".

Wow. You're a real superman then. So you in the speaking circuit, huh? You must make quite the honaria. So with that and your wife's $120k/yr you must be making bank.

The thing about it, is that you had time to do that with your class requirements, 3rd yr rotations, ERAS/Match applications, interviews, and 4th yr rotations. I'm putting you up for Medical Student of the Millennium

 

[Dr.Inviz]

My wife and I bought our house with 0 money down.

Recently married? Congrats

I knew you were engaged.

 

[HarveyCushing]

I'm putting you up for Medical Student of the Millennium

Did it really take you this long to figure that about JP?

 

[Dr JPH]

Wow. You're a real superman then. So you in the speaking circuit, huh? You must make quite the honaria. So with that and your wife's $120k/yr you must be making bank.

The thing about it, is that you had time to do that with your class requirements, 3rd yr rotations, ERAS/Match applications, interviews, and 4th yr rotations. I'm putting you up for Medical Student of the Millennium

Plus I did an additional 5th year of research and teaching.

Tweety...you have officially lowered yourself to the point where no one respects you.

Congrats. You are now Uber-Troll!

 

[Dr JPH]

Recently married? Congrats

I knew you were engaged.

Lets say we are in the transition from engaged to married. Leave it at that.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Congrats. You are now Uber-Troll!

Maybe she should get the troll of the week award.

 

[Dr JPH]

She wont get it Taus

Read what she writes above. Read HOW she writes. No common sense, no means of consistency. She is all over the place. Too much communion wine I think.

 

[lilnoelle]

Thanks.

I thought your post was intelligent. You know its only the inflammatory posts that get addressed in threads like this.