Wifes Choice of CAA or CRNA

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drmax1111

drmax1111

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I am asking this on behalf of my wife. I have read here quite a bit, and actually several places. I share with her the knowledge I obtain. It works well! We live near a larger city with a couple big hospitals (which she works for one). She has a BSN (and MBA for what that matters) and has been working in the xplant OR as RN for maybe 7 yrs. As of recent, this city is starting an accredited CAA and CRNA school. She loves what she does, and has decided to possibly act upon one of either of the schools. Where she works currently, this hospital is affiliated with the CAA programs university. Most likely she'd be able to grab a position with the anesthesiology care team here, (after school) as she knows many many MD's and simply put, just good connections. On the other hand, the other university is offering the crna doctorate program. Sad thing is, where she currently works...they do not hire crna's. Not the belief of their organization.
The dilemma is, is it wasting her current education with a bsn, not going with a crna program, and potentially losing a job and people (connections) she very much enjoys, just to be a crna? Cost of either program is roughly the same...92-100K. With our future, I don't think we really care about moving around. She's in her early 40's and still have a couple kids in HS. From what I've read, it may be that CAA's may open in additional states, with her career time frame, so that part isn't weighing to heavily upon our decision. Wages do come into play as for paying off the loans, but have read either title pays very similar, in the hospital setting.
Anyone here with some knowledge, or point out some other facts...would be appreciated. (of course opinions are welcome) 100K is a tough pill to swallow...but she loves what she does and loves anesthesiology. Her being the books smart individual she is, she wants to make the correct decision for her and the family. Thank you...GJ
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(just a med student disclosure)
You have two things to weigh here. The AAs simply don't have the lobbying swing the crnas do and as such have far less market penetration and scope of practice likelihood. Today, as a crna you can do more in more places and that will likely continue. The second question is whether that's a good idea. The crna push is based on lobbying power and not whether it's good for patients so on a moral level I'm not a fan of their organization although I've met some very nice crnas.

Given all that, I would be reluctant to put too much stock in the current hiring practice of one local group...the few years it would take to get through her program is plenty of time for political winds to shift.
 
Thank you and any responses here, I will share with the wife.
 
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The prerequisites are different for both programs, and they are not equivalent experiences.

I'd look for AAs to have more expansion into other states in the very near future. CRNAs are getting close to being over saturated.
 
She is signed up to take a prereq's through Ivy Tech, online math and organic chem, for this summer. On the other hand...with crna she's ready to go, without GRE. She carries a 4.0 gpa. We are trying to think this thing through...clearly. Unsure what may push her to one side. Difficult to decide. Spking on wages, I think it's all about location, and what setting. "If" we knew the CAA was expanding to other states...that may help lean toward this path.
 
I would assume that AA expansion will be aggressively fought state by state to the death. They may expand, but aggressive lobbying can delay that for many many years and while anesthesiologists generally support AA expansion, they don't put in the effort that the CRNAs do to block it and the AA lobby itself is too small to be effective. Unless the ASA goes all in on AAs, they're in trouble. And it certainly looks like they're not going to do that anytime soon. They're too busy pushing the perioperative physician BS fantasy. Which, to me, means that they've already given up.
If I were her, I'd go to CRNA school. That's a valid job wherever you end up. Don't assume AAs are going anywhere that they're not now.


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Il Destriero
 
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CRNA school, if she already has the pre-reqs and ICU experience, is likelier the easier route. AA practice locales are slowly but constantly expanding - Indiana/Indianapolis is taking their first class this summer, and AAs are being hired in Indiana following their enabling legislation last year. However, CRNAs outnumber AAs by a large margin, and their hypocrisy of blocking AA expansion while whining about anesthesiologists doing the same to them is never-ending. I don't know anything about your location - but choosing a career strictly on assuming you'll be hired and/or stay in a very specific location for years on end is rarely a smart move.
 
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jwk...it is IU she works, IUPUI as the school...Marion as the crna, which currently having accreditation issues, supposedly soon to be resolved.
 
IU will have a great AA program. Huge support within the department there.
 
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You see how difficult this decision may be...now! She knows, many great surgeons and anest. staff. Could be a mistake to throw that part of it away, by doing crna. However, her experience would never be lost....The difficulty factor you mentioned? Maybe this is something that should be looked at a little closer.
 
It sounds like the wife is an OR nurse. Does she have the ICU nursing experience required to get into a CRNA program? I believe all programs require at least one year of ICU experience with most successful applicants having more than that, especially at the better programs.
 
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jwk said:
CRNA school, if she already has the pre-reqs and ICU experience, is likelier the easier route. AA practice locales are slowly but constantly expanding - Indiana/Indianapolis is taking their first class this summer, and AAs are being hired in Indiana following their enabling legislation last year. However, CRNAs outnumber AAs by a large margin, and their hypocrisy of blocking AA expansion while whining about anesthesiologists doing the same to them is never-ending. I don't know anything about your location - but choosing a career strictly on assuming you'll be hired and/or stay in a very specific location for years on end is rarely a smart move.
Click to expand...

Are many/any of the local groups picking them up?
 
d9sccr said:
Are many/any of the local groups picking them up?
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All the major hospitals in Indy are doc only, according to my buddy who works there the docs have black balled CRNAs from the big city for the most part.
 
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Man o War said:
All the major hospitals in Indy are doc only, according to my buddy who works there the docs have black balled CRNAs from the big city for the most part.
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It was my impression that would continue to be the case, but opening of both AA and CRNA schools make that a little dubious...it's not like there are any other large cities around to feed them into
 
Northern Indiana is heavy CRNA presence. They can practice independently


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AAs are the fly in the ointment to complete head on competition with MDs nationwide. As long as AA acceptance expands from state to state, the power-mad CRNAs can possibly be held in check.
 
psychbender said:
I personally know of one group in Indiana that was physician - only that just hired a couple of CRNAs, mostly for remote sites. They're still 90% physician, but it always starts somewhere.

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Definitely happens across the state, but Indianapolis is really unusual in that the groups there are steadfastly doc only in the main hospitals. Not sure about IU.
 
I am a current IU resident. No CRNAs currently at IU University Hospital, one was just hired for the children's hospital, Riley (wife of a new plastic surgeon), they have been at the VA for years. Few CRNAs in private practice within and near the city, not a very welcoming environment for them since most people who work in Indy trained at IU and are used to no CRNAs. I believe the intention of IU is to hire more AAs as they graduate from the new program over CRNAs. Regardless, physician extenders are now at every academic hospital except one in downtown Indy now (new change within the past year).
 
d9sccr said:
I believe IU is affiliated with AA school so I imagine it could start there
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My friend and his girlfriend (AAs) are taking jobs there this summer. One at Riley and one at the adult hospital so yes they are hiring AAs now.
 
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d9sccr said:
I believe IU is affiliated with AA school so I imagine it could start there
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IU is very supportive of their new AA program. Their first class matriculates in a few months.
 
Do any of you guys in the pp world have a SRNA program affiliated with your hospital/group?
 
Our AA's get paid about 10-15% lower than our CRNA's
 
B-Bone said:
It sounds like the wife is an OR nurse. Does she have the ICU nursing experience required to get into a CRNA program? I believe all programs require at least one year of ICU experience with most successful applicants having more than that, especially at the better programs.
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A minimum of one year critical care is required. Not specifically ICU. Could be ER. Could be flight nursing. Depends on the program.


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I asked too, I wasn't given a straight answer. The nurses are employed by the hosspital the AA's by our dept
 
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