DeadCactus

SDN Lifetime Donor
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Oct 28, 2006
2,572
660
281
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I first heard about it in this forum and was hoping to find some more information. Is anyone familiar with how this works? My understanding is you pay a fee to begin the process and then they track your progress as you meat certain educational and experience related goals.

I don't understand how you meet the educational goals though. Are they online courses? Is it something feasible to at least begin as a medical student? Any other comments or opinions?
 

Stitch

Jedi Ninja Wizard
Moderator
15+ Year Member
Dec 12, 2002
5,597
106
481
Texas
Status
Attending Physician
This is the course I want to do. Seriously if I could make a living, I'd quit right now.
 

GreenShirt

10+ Year Member
Feb 6, 2007
1,462
5
241
Status
Medical Student
Just discovered wilderness EM tonight and I'm wondering what kind of job a physician with a fellowship in Wilderness Medicine does? Are they essentially a well-paid ski bums? With very limited medical supplies in wilderness situations I would assume this is mostly glorified first aid that can be accomplished by a first responder (who would be a lot cheaper to employ than a physician). Don't get me wrong...the courses look awesome but they seem to be out-of-pocket which could become a very expensive hobby.
 

Stitch

Jedi Ninja Wizard
Moderator
15+ Year Member
Dec 12, 2002
5,597
106
481
Texas
Status
Attending Physician
Just discovered wilderness EM tonight and I'm wondering what kind of job a physician with a fellowship in Wilderness Medicine does? Are they essentially a well-paid ski bums? With very limited medical supplies in wilderness situations I would assume this is mostly glorified first aid that can be accomplished by a first responder (who would be a lot cheaper to employ than a physician). Don't get me wrong...the courses look awesome but they seem to be out-of-pocket which could become a very expensive hobby.
I tend to agree with you, though maybe others have had a different experience or impression. As it is, the few I know who are more involved in this sort of thing do it as a hobby and don't make their sole living from it.

There's a guy (can't remember his name) who's an adult EM physician, and he runs the basecamp at Everest. Pretty cool, and he has come up with a ton of uses for a foley cath and a safety pin.

The course site that I listed is suppposed to prepare you to be an expedition physician; you'd accompany groups of scientists to antarctica or on safari or in the Amazon. I think they also do basecamp at K2. In those cases you'd be the EM physician, and learn to set up a mini ICU and coordinate evacs as well as take care of acute stuff when there's no one else. But again, I don't think anyone does only that for a living (awesome as that would be).
 

njac

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
Mar 20, 2005
11,656
6,043
281
35
Now headed all the way west!
Status
Pharmacist
one of the FM guys where I am now is big into Wilderness Medicine - he is the Medical Director for the ski patrol for the area and really enjoys that.
 

pagemmapants

Unknown Member
10+ Year Member
Jul 7, 2005
1,602
20
251
91
Status
Attending Physician
I did this: http://www.wms.org/education/elective.asp last month and it was awesome. There were a number of faculty who lecture there who are affiliated with WMS most of whom are FAWM, from dudes who work out at Base Camp and taught us avalanche medicine to military men who lectured on triage. We also got WFR certification and ran a ton of wilderness scenarios including night scenarios, difficult extrications with belay systems, water rescues, etc. most of the "expedition docs" who came were ER physicians who spent months being river guides or canyoneering guides or just the designated "expedition doc" for various international trips.

Seriously awesome, and a good way to get a ton of hours in if you're looking to start down the FAWM path.

The Wilderness medicine bible = Auerbach's: http://www.amazon.com/Wilderness-Medicine-5th-Paul-Auerbach/dp/0323032281/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269872636&sr=8-4. But if you want a quick intro to wilderness medicine pick up http://www.amazon.com/Wilderness-Medical-Practice-Guidelines-Emergency/dp/0762741023/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269872594&sr=8-1 that.
 

Dr.McNinja

Nobel War Prize Winner
Moderator
10+ Year Member
Aug 2, 2006
9,864
6,274
381
Texas
Status
Attending Physician
I wonder if they'll do another one.
I could use an elective month away from my hospital.

On edit, they already have the times set up. Jan 30-Feb 25 2011.

I used to go to Wesley Woods as a kid. It might seem a little surreal to go back now.
 

tele turnin

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Mar 9, 2009
223
8
151
Status
Medical Student
i know there are some ems/wilderness medicine fellowships out there such as the one in utah (http://www.utahhealthsciences.net/pageview.aspx?id=17053). anybody have any idea how competitive something like this would be? ideally i would like to end up in a situation where i could volunteer for search and rescue and this seems like it would be beneficial and right up my alley of current hobbies.
 

StarboardMD

10+ Year Member
Aug 24, 2006
158
4
241
Status
Attending Physician
I first heard about it in this forum and was hoping to find some more information. Is anyone familiar with how this works? My understanding is you pay a fee to begin the process and then they track your progress as you meat certain educational and experience related goals.

I don't understand how you meet the educational goals though. Are they online courses? Is it something feasible to at least begin as a medical student? Any other comments or opinions?
Has anyone actually done this WMS fellowship? I am wondering about the associated fees (e.g. if I pay to become a member and pay the fee for the fellowship, do I still have to pay a separate fee for each credit?). Also, how much of it can be done online (I'm currently stationed overseas with a lot of free time)?
 
D

DocRGR

I'm a Fellow, you can PM me or I'll try to give more of a rundown publicly when I get a chance.
 

sylvanthus

EM/IM/CC PGY-6
10+ Year Member
Sep 9, 2008
2,923
644
281
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
Hmmm looks like this could be done during residency with good planning. Very tempting! I completed seattle mountaineers climbing course while in medical school so am really interested in this kind of thing. A rundown would be appreciated.
 
D

DocRGR

Has anyone actually done this WMS fellowship? I am wondering about the associated fees (e.g. if I pay to become a member and pay the fee for the fellowship, do I still have to pay a separate fee for each credit?). Also, how much of it can be done online (I'm currently stationed overseas with a lot of free time)?
So you become a member of WMS, then you pay the additional one time fee to become a fellow candidate. Quite a few core credits can be done online, but they end up costing around $50/cr to review old classes. Perhaps 15 - 20 credits can be done for free by reading old WMS Journal articles and taking the short, easy associated quizzes. The fellowship could definitely be started as a medical student, although I'd anticipate the experience requirement holding most folks back for a few years, unless you have a medical or military background prior. By and large core credits are acquired by attending conferences or courses. I.e. I attended 3 conferences and 3 courses (Wilderness First Responder, Advanced Wilderness Life Support, Wilderness Practices and Protocols) which pretty much covered me for core requirements plus a few hours. As you go on in accumulating hours you will get less and less for conferences and courses as topics begin to overlap. Credit towards FAWM is accumulated by having 55 or more unique hours. Just something to consider to prevent you from thinking 2 conferences of 30 hours each will cover everything.

I really enjoy this stuff. I've been an avid outdoorsman for years as well as being military and have found it applicable.

Here's some more info: http://wms.org/fawm/default.asp

Glad to answer any questions.
 

tele turnin

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Mar 9, 2009
223
8
151
Status
Medical Student
so i've been looking at this for a while. i'm wondering how many docs that do this aren't EM trained/boarded. i'm torn right now between ER and other specialities, but just want to verify that if i go into something like IM that doesn't close doors regarding this. thanks for any info.
 

sylvanthus

EM/IM/CC PGY-6
10+ Year Member
Sep 9, 2008
2,923
644
281
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
so i've been looking at this for a while. i'm wondering how many docs that do this aren't EM trained/boarded. i'm torn right now between ER and other specialities, but just want to verify that if i go into something like IM that doesn't close doors regarding this. thanks for any info.
It doesnt close it off to you. I saw a paramedic and nurse. You should be fine.
 
Jan 12, 2012
52
2
41
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I'm a Fellow, you can PM me or I'll try to give more of a rundown publicly when I get a chance.
Are the week long conferences family friendly? or it's best to not bring wife/kids since you will be occupied for the most part? Thanks!
 
D

DocRGR

Schedules vary conference to conference, but I went to one in Utah that essentially was scheduled around the ski day. Like most conferences you can pick and choose what you attend. I would bring my family along, but would tend to allocate some extra days outside the event just to vacation.
 

StarboardMD

10+ Year Member
Aug 24, 2006
158
4
241
Status
Attending Physician
Well, I gave the WMS all my money, so we'll see how this goes! Can't wait to get back to the states and go to a snowskiing/medicine conference! :) Sounds amazing!
 

Dr.McNinja

Nobel War Prize Winner
Moderator
10+ Year Member
Aug 2, 2006
9,864
6,274
381
Texas
Status
Attending Physician
I'll wait to pay until after taxes due.
You never want to be just so close, but at the same time, I'm not taking any of the courses between now and April, so paying now doesn't benefit me any.