Will be graduating with 300k debt with private loans...HELP

[bacillus1]

http://www.northeastern.edu/registrar/billing-tuition1011.html

6th Year Pharm D 10,835
Direct Entry PharmD 17,675
Direct Entry PharmD Clinical 10,835

Not really sure what the difference of PharmD and PharmD clinical, is but 6 years, 12 semesters, even at the extra $7k of the clinical, comes to around $200k. Sure you'll have some housing expenses to add in, unless you still live at home. Even if you don't, you can have a nice apartment for $800/month, x12 months x 6 years = $57K. Get a roommate and that's cut in half. Your total is now around $230k, just bump it up to $235 for books and whatever other things you need. I'd say spending $200/month on food is fairly generous for a student, which x 12months x 6yrs = around $15k. Total is $250k now. I'm not seeing where you'd spend an additional 50k as a student unless you have kids or an addiction.

An extra 50k would come if OP got all private loans (that would be interest accrued during the 6 years).
Also, I looked at the PharmD curriculum and it seems like they do 3 semesters P3 (possibly P4).

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[NEU2014]

http://www.northeastern.edu/registrar/billing-tuition1011.html

6th Year Pharm D 10,835
Direct Entry PharmD 17,675
Direct Entry PharmD Clinical 10,835

Not really sure what the difference of PharmD and PharmD clinical, is but 6 years, 12 semesters, even at the extra $7k of the clinical, comes to around $200k. Sure you'll have some housing expenses to add in, unless you still live at home. Even if you don't, you can have a nice apartment for $800/month, x12 months x 6 years = $57K. Get a roommate and that's cut in half. Your total is now around $230k, just bump it up to $235 for books and whatever other things you need. I'd say spending $200/month on food is fairly generous for a student, which x 12months x 6yrs = around $15k. Total is $250k now. I'm not seeing where you'd spend an additional 50k as a student unless you have kids or an addiction.

Get a job, interns make somewhere between $10-20/hr, only working the weekend you'd bring home about $200, and if you're really that broke, you need to work after school some days. Work full time during breaks too. If you do this, you can probably take out way less each semester.

there is 14 semesters, not 12. On top of tuition, there are other costs & fees as well. Housing in boston is not cheap; I found offcampus housing to actually be more expensive the oncampus.

oh, and to make it even worse, 300k is without interest... the real amount is 360k, but my parents are paying the 60k for interest accrued while I'm in school.

 

[VancTheTank]

Now I could certainly be wrong, and I love learning new things, but federal loans do not come directly from the government. In particular I am thinking of Subsidised Stanford Loans which are issued by banks and the government pays the interest for you while you are in school. That is taxpayer money benefiting the student. The student will never pay back the interest from when he was in school (except in the form of taxes). The government does not benefit from the interest after you graduate, the bank does.

Mind you I am not against student loans, quite the contrary. But if someone is against government aid, redistributing wealth, etc, etc, they should be against student loans as well. Unless of course said person is a hypocrite who is only against aid they do not qualify for (this is not aimed at anyone in particular, just a general comment).

Good point(s), I love to learn new things as well.

Based on my own experience with sub and unsub loans, and what I can find on the DLS websites, the department of education is he final lender. I am interested in finding a good flow chart that shows where the money starts and stops, if the loans are purchased outright or amortized, and what the relative rates of exchange are. Something like the FIRE charts that show how those funds operate in the financial markets. Anybody know where I can find this?

And how many steps do we take before we find the real lender? Say the DOE borrows money from Chase so they can lend it to me for my 18 month online PharmD. Chase got the money from commercial investors and customers. I have a Chase savings account. Does that mean I am loaning myself the money?

For the record I fully support student loans. I also support graduates and contingent repayment options, and in most cases IBR. The real twist in my side is the idea that a very high earner (or a very irresponsible borrower) can receive this assistance.

One might call that "predatory borrowing"

 

[owlegrad]

Good point(s), I love to learn new things as well.

Based on my own experience with sub and unsub loans, and what I can find on the DLS websites, the department of education is he final lender. I am interested in finding a good flow chart that shows where the money starts and stops, if the loans are purchased outright or amortized, and what the relative rates of exchange are. Something like the FIRE charts that show how those funds operate in the financial markets. Anybody know where I can find this?

And how many steps do we take before we find the real lender? Say the DOE borrows money from Chase so they can lend it to me for my 18 month online PharmD. Chase got the money from commercial investors and customers. I have a Chase savings account. Does that mean I am loaning myself the money?

For the record I fully support student loans. I also support graduates and contingent repayment options, and in most cases IBR. The real twist in my side is the idea that a very high earner (or a very irresponsible borrower) can receive this assistance.

One might call that "predatory borrowing"

I really wish I had a source. I could be way off. I have a memory of hearing about how the government has incentives for banks to make (or maybe it was buy?) these loans and that one of those incentives is that the government pays the interest while the student is in school. I seem to remember hearing that it would be cheaper for the government to issue/run the loans directly, but that it is set up so that the banks will benefit from these loans. I could easily have misunderstood.

I also would like to see a a sort of bird's eye view flow chart of how these programs work. Would be interesting.

I never thought of that! It's a fair point I must say.

 

[NEU2014]

I'm reviving this thread for any pre-pharmers to make sure they dont make the mistake I made ...

 

[Filler]

I'm reviving this thread for any pre-pharmers to make sure they dont make the mistake I made ...

Were you able to get your issue resolved in terms of securing federal loans?

 

[Ackj]

there is 14 semesters, not 12. On top of tuition, there are other costs & fees as well. Housing in boston is not cheap; I found offcampus housing to actually be more expensive the oncampus.

oh, and to make it even worse, 300k is without interest... the real amount is 360k, but my parents are paying the 60k for interest accrued while I'm in school.

Okay, but not all of these semesters are 17k, some appear to be only 10k, so I'm sure my approximation ends up being on the higher side.

And exactly how expensive is housing? I can't forsee an apartment being more than $1000/month which cuts down to $500 if when you get a roommate.

 

[charfdorn]

I'm reviving this thread for any pre-pharmers to make sure they dont make the mistake I made ...

Stop. Taking. Private. Loans.

Find another way.

You haven't yet put yourself into an impossible hole, but you will if you keep going at this rate. Either look for a different school or figure out federal student loans or join the Army for four years and use the Montgomery GI Bill to pay your tuition. Or pursue a different career. The absolute worst thing you could do for yourself is take out three more years of $50k-plus in private loans at that interest rate. It amazes me that you think continuing on this path is a good idea.

 

[blueclassring]

This is financial suicide, or at least financial handicapping. Pharmacy school is getting too expensive.

For a 30 year payment period.


Loan Balance: $300,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $300,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 30 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $1,955.78
Number of Payments: 360

Cumulative Payments: $704,075.60
Total Interest Paid: $404,075.60 I

t is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $234,693.60 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.3. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $156,462.40, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.9.

For a 10 year period

Loan Balance: $300,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $300,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $3,452.41
Number of Payments: 120

Cumulative Payments: $414,289.18
Total Interest Paid: $114,289.18

Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $3,452.41 plus a final payment of $3,452.39.

It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $414,289.20 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 0.7. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $276,192.80, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.1.

 

[homeslice]

This is financial suicide, or at least financial handicapping. Pharmacy school is getting too expensive.

For a 30 year payment period.


Loan Balance: $300,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $300,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 30 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $1,955.78
Number of Payments: 360

Cumulative Payments: $704,075.60
Total Interest Paid: $404,075.60 I

t is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $234,693.60 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.3. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $156,462.40, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.9.

For a 10 year period

Loan Balance: $300,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $300,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $3,452.41
Number of Payments: 120

Cumulative Payments: $414,289.18
Total Interest Paid: $114,289.18

Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $3,452.41 plus a final payment of $3,452.39.

It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $414,289.20 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 0.7. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $276,192.80, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.1.

I certainly hope the OP would be putting down a lot more than 10% or 15% of his/her gross monthly income towards these loans.

 

[type b pharmD]

I certainly hope the OP would be putting down a lot more than 10% or 15% of his/her gross monthly income towards these loans.

yeah. that calculator's ideas about "financial hardship" become way less relevant and way more broken at higher income levels. someone making 120k a year can easily afford to spend 50% of their after tax income on loans and still live well.

 

[NEU2014]

Well, it certainly seems as if I will be able to allocate atleast 75% - 85% of my take-home towards my loans until theyre paid. I calculated that it should take me around 6-7 years.

Retail, here i come...

 

[Medwell]

Well, it certainly seems as if I will be able to allocate atleast 75% - 85% of my take-home towards my loans until theyre paid. I calculated that it should take me around 6-7 years.

85%? Are you going to live with your parents (and not pay rent), eat ramen noodles for every meal, take the bus everywhere and have no hobbies?

 

[type b pharmD]

85%? Are you going to live with your parents (and not pay rent), eat ramen noodles for every meal, take the bus everywhere and have no hobbies?

uh, find a cheap place to live, cheap apartment (ex: $450 2 bedroom), spend $25 max/week on food (easy). bike or take the bus. hobbies: exercise, get books out of the library, get media free online, spend time talking to people, get cheap art supplies at thrift stores, etc.

being in the mindset that you need money is what hurts people the most. OP has already obviously let go of that.. and at that point it doesnt really matter.

 

[owlegrad]

uh, find a cheap place to live, cheap apartment (ex: $450 2 bedroom), spend $25 max/week on food (easy). bike or take the bus. hobbies: exercise, get books out of the library, get media free online, spend time talking to people, get cheap art supplies at thrift stores, etc.

being in the mindset that you need money is what hurts people the most. OP has already obviously let go of that.. and at that point it doesnt really matter.

OMG I can't imagine spending that little on food. May I ask what kind of menu that allows for?

 

[type b pharmD]

OMG I can't imagine spending that little on food. May I ask what kind of menu that allows for?

that's about what i spend on food per week. lots of oatmeal, basic grains, bulk dry beans, making large batches of soups, stews, chilis, etc. protein powder for protein i consider a one time expense though.. that stuff is expensive at first but the money saved on not buying meat is huge. of course, lots of ramen too.

save-a-lot / aldi type stores and dollar stores help a lot. for example, 3 servings of spaghetti sauce for $1, 4 servings of noodles for $1. That's a really cheap healthy meal right there for 50cents or so. also mcdonalds and bk dollar menus help a lot. an oatmeal meal a day, a spaghetti/noodle meal a day, and a bk/mcd's dollar menu meal a day, that ends up around $25. of course sometimes it's good to spend big on a huge batch of stew or chili that will provide 15-20 meals over a couple weeks. Ramen can make a good snack for 15 cents

anyone looking to cut grocery expenses should first stop shopping at "grocery stores" and start shopping at places like Aldi and dollar stores, super walmart isnt bad either. It's great once you realize that a lot of the stuff you can buy at grocery stores can be had at places like save-a-lot for half the price or lower. Spaghetti sauce at Kroger here is $2.40-$2.79. Thats completely unacceptable when the same sauce at save-a-lot across the street is $0.95.

my friends on food stamps/social security get around $200/month for food and they're living pretty damn well. $100 isnt that big of a stretch when you think about it. $100 buys a lot of food. It's become evident to me through the price disparities between stores that clearly places like Kroger and safeway are taking advantage of people who don't know any better or , for lack of a better phrase, are okay throwing away their money for a perceived (probably fake) "quality" difference.

 

[kinipela35]

OMG I can't imagine spending that little on food. May I ask what kind of menu that allows for?

obviously one that does not include fresh fruits & veggies or meat of any kind

I guess if you enjoy eating preservatives out of a can, you can survive on $25/week

 

[benjee]

If graduating with 300K+ in debt, the degree definitely not worth it.Might as well go get a MD degree and specialized in some well pay specialty.

 

[type b pharmD]

obviously one that does not include fresh fruits & veggies or meat of any kind

I guess if you enjoy eating preservatives out of a can, you can survive on $25/week

i dont eat any fresh fruits (although the spaghetti adds a very large number of servings of tomatos per week), but once a week or so i'll splurge and spend $2.25 on a huge dish of broccoli from a local restaurant.

I dont eat any preservatives or artificial ingredients of any kind (ha: edit. apart from fast food LOL).. i like to stick with real, natural foods.. bulk grains and tomato sauce have no preservatives.

also curry paste or powder can be found extremely cheaply at asian grocery stores in poor neighborhoods. good way to add flavor to sauces and stews without buying a $4 jar of premade sauce

 

[SHC1984]

Well, it certainly seems as if I will be able to allocate atleast 75% - 85% of my take-home towards my loans until theyre paid. I calculated that it should take me around 6-7 years.

Retail, here i come...

That sounds like a living hell though...85% of salary towards loans? 6-7 years to pay it off?

If I had to live like that I might as well just graduated college and get a job that pays 40K to 60K a year. That beats the lifestyle you are describing AND it takes less work. Why would you put yourself in such a stressful and terrible life WHILE WORKING HARDER than a normal college or high school graduate that can just come out and make 40K to 60K a year? Doesn't make much sense...
Oh and lets add a pharmacist's job is about 10000000000000X more stressful most other jobs...so yeah...doesn't make much sense to take your route. Now if one can graduate pharmacy school with less than 100K debt then *maybe* its worth it...

 

[spacecowgirl]

Just reading Type B's food list makes me feel like I have scurvy.

 

[type b pharmD]

Just reading Type B's food list makes me feel like I have scurvy.

heyyy now. tomato sauce every day? i probably get a week's worth of vitamin C out of that.

although i do suspect i probably am at some level of subclinical deficiency of many vitamins, it hasnt killed me yet.

 

[Momus]

Well, $300k in less than 2.5 years is doable back in 2004-2008 WITH 20 hours overtime/week... not anymore though. OT is dried up.. so your take home pay will probably be ~$65-70k/year after taxes and 401k.

Take a graveyard positions and work another full time job during your 7 days off = Gross ~$200k/year

or limit the debt before it happens... create an extenuating circumstances and transfer to a cheaper public school while you are at it >_>

 

[Momus]

heyyy now. tomato sauce every day? i probably get a week's worth of vitamin C out of that.

although i do suspect i probably am at some level of subclinical deficiency of many vitamins, it hasnt killed me yet.

Tomato sauce sometimes is full of HFCS.

I take a multivitamin every day just to be on the safe side because I know I don't eat the most nutritious food everyday (some carbs, protein, little veggies). I got the biggest bottle "buy one get one free deal" for ~300 tablets X 2 for $15, effectively costing me just about 2.5 cents/day for the multivitamin.

 

[type b pharmD]

Tomato sauce sometimes is full of HFCS.

I take a multivitamin every day just to be on the safe side because I know I don't eat the most nutritious food everyday (some carbs, protein, little veggies). I got the biggest bottle "buy one get one free deal" for ~300 tablets X 2 for $15, effectively costing me just about 2.5 cents/day for the multivitamin.

good call. i stay as FAR away from hfcs as i can. i wont buy anything that has it in it. diabetes in syrup form more or less lol

good call on the multivitamins too. I buy them in bulk at whatever store has the discounts

 

[SHC1984]

heyyy now. tomato sauce every day? i probably get a week's worth of vitamin C out of that.

although i do suspect i probably am at some level of subclinical deficiency of many vitamins, it hasnt killed me yet.

You should consider maybe going up to $200 a month on groceries. That's about how much I spend when I was living alone (about $100 every two weeks). That way you can eat healthier. Think about all the medical expenses you will have in the future for eating like that versus eating healthy! If you want to save money just eat out less, but spending around $200 a month on groceries is very reasonable.

 

[BavarianMWE46]

This is simply the end of the enormous student loan bubble coming up soon. $300,000 is not manageable, even if you are lucky enough to find a job. This sounds like the mortgage bubble of a few years ago; people trying to justify $500K mortgages to people making $50K etc. What is the point of going to college if you are going to be 35 years old before you make a single penny? What about retirement, kids, house, enjoyment of life? This student loan bubble is going to destroy many lives, sucks.

Massive inflation is the only thing that will save people. You better hope the govt print off a few trillion dollars and devalues the dollar about 3x or this bubble is poppin'.

 

[type b pharmD]

This is simply the end of the enormous student loan bubble coming up soon. $300,000 is not manageable, even if you are lucky enough to find a job. This sounds like the mortgage bubble of a few years ago; people trying to justify $500K mortgages to people making $50K etc. What is the point of going to college if you are going to be 35 years old before you make a single penny? What about retirement, kids, house, enjoyment of life? This student loan bubble is going to destroy many lives, sucks.

Massive inflation is the only thing that will save people. You better hope the govt print off a few trillion dollars and devalues the dollar about 3x or this bubble is poppin'.

$600 billion down, 10 trillion to go?

I was considering inevitable monetary easing when i chose pharmacy school. I wouldnt have taken out 170k in loans if i didnt think we were in for some severe inflation.

 

[VancTheTank]

$600 billion down, 10 trillion to go?

I was considering inevitable monetary easing when i chose pharmacy school. I wouldnt have taken out 170k in loans if i didnt think we were in for some severe inflation.

170K? Even with your tomato paste diet?

With that large of a balance, another couple thousand per year to eat fruits and vegetables is inconsequential. Why invest 170K in your mind at the expense of your body?

 

[BrightLight]

You should consider maybe going up to $200 a month on groceries. That's about how much I spend when I was living alone (about $100 every two weeks). That way you can eat healthier. Think about all the medical expenses you will have in the future for eating like that versus eating healthy! If you want to save money just eat out less, but spending around $200 a month on groceries is very reasonable.

SlimFast one can po TID should take care of everything. It's about $1 per can so less than $25 per week.

 

[psychoandy]

I don't think financial aid is terrible, it's just that everyone expects to be magically granted a financial aid package without actually doing anything other than walking in. I found that a lot of people I knew were either in on a merit scholarship or were poor, and usually got at least 10-15k/year in scholarships/grant money respectively.

So I guess the real question is, did you have good grades and did you fill out a FAFSA? It's not too late to get stafford loans or scholarships or random grant money. More importantly, do your parents make over 100k? A major determining factor in getting financial aid that doesn't consist of stafford loans.

My suggestion to you would be to find an awesome decent paying co-op that will hire you part time (that will also let you study during downtime), and start using that money to offset living expenses; if you save your coop money, at 13 bucks an hour full time for 4 months, its about 6400 after tax. Not an insignificant chunk of change. It's pretty ******ed to use loan money for living expenses, so you should probably start working...or have your parents bail you out by paying your rent/food? idk.