Will DO/PhD help me get a Neurosurgery residency?

[rapinyourface]

I am very interested in research. I just recently found out that DO/PhD programs existed (albeit only a handful of them). I am also interested in uber-competitive the neurosurgery residency. I come from a cognitive neuroscience/neurobiology background, so it really is just to best fit for my interests, and unfortunately it happens to be arguably the most competitive residency.

Please keep in mind that I am not pursuing a DO/PhD in order to be a better candidate for neurosurgery residencies. The DO/PhD training already suits my current interests, and I am simply asking if it will also enhance my chances at a neurosurgery residency.

Finally, will my career options be constrained in any way? If I get a PhD, I obviously intend on using it toward doing research. However, I am unclear if a neurosurgery residency suits a career in research. Furthermore, will I be limited to certain hospitals (w/ my D.O. and AOA residency)?

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[MossPoh]

First off, if the only reason you want to do the program is to try and improve your chances for a residency you MIGHT be interested in then I say don't bother. Also, there are multiple ways to deal with the brain aside from neurosurgery. These paths (neurology, neuroradiology, etc.) are probably a little friendlier. PhDs really don't help that much unless you are aiming for a research oriented residency and a research position afterwards. I wouldn't squander my time with a PhD if the only thing you want to do is improve your chances....there are plenty of other ways that don't take an extra 3 or 4 years. Think bout that. You're talking around 14 years before you even make the real money.

It isn't the most competitive residency but it is up there. There is no arguably statement needed since they post the averages for all matched participants. Radiation oncology, dermatology, integrated plastics are all either tied or above NS in match statistics. Most people that match into NS have to be a little crazy since you pretty much sacrifice your life. You also don't do as much intracranial stuff as you expect. Many end up becoming spine surgeons.

You are already assuming you'll be doing the osteo match? Nearly every hospital jumps out of their way for a board certified neurosurgeon.....they bring in huge cash. If you want some high end academic position then you are going to probably have to research and work for a smaller and less prestigious place and get yourself known. Only your abilities will tell that. I suspect by the time you reach that point you will probably just want to start making real money though.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Are you attempting to maximize the amount of time between now and making any real money?

 

[goingindebt]

Why not look at the DO & MD neurosurgery programs that allow you the opportunity to get a PhD during your residency? I know there are a few out there…

 

[bkpa2med]

No. Don't become a legend in your mind.

 

[tideleonheart]

I am very interested in research. I just recently found out that DO/PhD programs existed (albeit only a handful of them). I am also interested in uber-competitive the neurosurgery residency. I come from a cognitive neuroscience/neurobiology background, so it really is just to best fit for my interests, and unfortunately it happens to be arguably the most competitive residency.

Please keep in mind that I am not pursuing a DO/PhD in order to be a better candidate for neurosurgery residencies. The DO/PhD training already suits my current interests, and I am simply asking if it will also enhance my chances at a neurosurgery residency.

Finally, will my career options be constrained in any way? If I get a PhD, I obviously intend on using it toward doing research. However, I am unclear if a neurosurgery residency suits a career in research. Furthermore, will I be limited to certain hospitals (w/ my D.O. and AOA residency)?

It's true that a PhD could improve your application. However, much more importantly, residencies are going to be looking at 3 main things:
1) Board Scores. If you don't make an above average score at least, you can kiss NS goodbye.
2) Do you know what you're getting into / can you handle it? They want to see that you have not only done well in a month-long NS rotation, but they want to know that you can do it for 84 months.
3) Can the residents and attendings get along with you? It's going to be a long haul. Are you already getting annoying or are you the kind of person they want to be next to them?

NS can be research oriented if you want it to be. It's all what you make of it. Having a PhD (esp in a neuro-related field) will help your ability to do research. If you're set on being a research NS, a PhD isn't necessarily a bad idea.

Being DO and AOA shouldn't restrict your job hunting abilities post-residency.

 

[rapinyourface]

Why not look at the DO & MD neurosurgery programs that allow you the opportunity to get a PhD during your residency? I know there are a few out there…

Thank you. I knew that NS residencies involved 2 years of research, but I didn't know that you could get a PhD (for some programs).

Just curious: do you think the average applicant will have a much better chance at a DO/AOA neurosurgery residency versus a MD/ACGME neurosurgery residency? Can't find much stats for the former...

I am not really interested in making loads of money. And I am very interested in research. Once upon a time, I was thinking about a straight PhD in neuroscience, but I like wider career options of a medical training.

Thank you all for the responses. Useful insights.

 

[J-Rad]

Do the combined DO/PhD if you think that you will find it personally satisfying. The PhD will do nothing for you if you don't do well on boards and rotations, but if you do well the PhD will only help. Most, including myself, would say that most people really can't accurately conceive of what they truly want to do (as far as specialty) until they are well into their clinical years of medical school. So understand that dreams of NS may change. If you are interested in neuroscience research Neurology (Adult or Child) and Psychiatry (or both combined) may be more up your alley later down the line since they both afford more of an easygoing lifestyle and would probably provide more research time. With a strong research interest the DO/PhD option may very well be for you, but don't look at it as a springboard to a specific specialty but rather a springboard to an academic medical career (highly sought after at academic institutions [Duh]) in whatever appeals to you later down the line.

 

[goingindebt]

Thank you. I knew that NS residencies involved 2 years of research, but I didn't know that you could get a PhD (for some programs).

Just curious: do you think the average applicant will have a much better chance at a DO/AOA neurosurgery residency versus a MD/ACGME neurosurgery residency? Can't find much stats for the former...

I am not really interested in making loads of money. And I am very interested in research. Once upon a time, I was thinking about a straight PhD in neuroscience, but I like wider career options of a medical training.

Thank you all for the responses. Useful insights.

I think any advanced degree will give you some advantage over other applicants, but the real key to getting a residency was stated above in a post.

During my interviews there were 2 things every program said they were looking for:

1. Someone personable. Programs wants someone they like to work with for 6-7 years.
2. Good board scores. Make sure you’re not a dumb ass doing it for the $$$

I think if you focus on studying and getting good board score along with not being a douche bag on rotations everything will fall into place.

 

[rapinyourface]

Somebody earlier/above brushed on this, and said that I should not have trouble getting jobs at all academic hospitals with a DO/PHD (versus an MD)...but I just wanted to double check.

Does anybody have experience, stories, etc. with academic medicine jobs with a DO? Do some hospitals require an MD or ACGME residency? Or do some hospitals seem to have a strong preference for these, de facto.

I know this question has been asked a million times, but I was wondering if people have information specific to academic medicine...and how a joint DO/PhD might affect this.

Thanks.