will gen chem nursing prereq be enough for premed gen chem prereq???

[ra206p]

Hi all!

I've taken gen chem (chem 141 and 142) in a community college.

Will this suffice for the mcat gen chem prereq? Or should i take another chem geared for science majors?

*The cc im attending now has a different gen chem class for science majors (chm.151and 152), and I still have to take o-chem (maybe in a CC also) and biochem in a uni.

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[DetectiveAlonzo]

Gen chem is gen chem. Schools just want Two semesters of general chemistry with lab. Should be enough for the chem stuff on MCAT and that's why you buy review books. Don't worry. Shouldn't be that big of a deal.

 

[AM508]

It really depends on the structure of the course I would think. The chemistry offered for nursing students at my local CC really seems insufficient (ie it was missing MANY major gen chem topics that you find in a university level class). It *may* satisfy the application requirements (you should check to make sure), but if is anything like the non-major chem at my local CC, it is not going to have you prepared for the MCAT. You should compare your syllabus for each class to the topics tested on the MCAT to make sure you have all your bases covered.

 

[MightBeACylon439]

No you are good...as long as the Chem you took had a lab (req for DO and MD) Review thoroughly for the MCAT and you'll be ok.

 

[ra206p]

Thanks all for the response. Here's the course description for my gen chem prereq for nursing (4 credits each, both with labs).

CHM 141 (4 credits)
A first semester course of general, organic, and biochemistry sequence designed to meet the needs of students of nursing, dental hygiene, physical therapy, allied health programs, forestry, nutrition, and other majors with comparable requirements. This course covers matter, electrons and chemical bonds, formulas and equations, stoichiometry, gases, solutions, energies, acid-base reactions, radioactivity, and introduction to organic chemistry.

CHM 142 (4 credits)
Second semester course of general, organic, and biochemistry sequence designed to meet the needs of students of nursing, dental hygiene, physical therapy, allied health programs, forestry, nutrition, and other majors with comparable requirements. This course covers organic compounds and their characteristics, and biological compounds and their role in living organisms.

Thanks!

 

[AM508]

Thanks all for the response. Here's the course description for my gen chem prereq for nursing (4 credits each, both with labs).

CHM 141 (4 credits)
A first semester course of general, organic, and biochemistry sequence designed to meet the needs of students of nursing, dental hygiene, physical therapy, allied health programs, forestry, nutrition, and other majors with comparable requirements. This course covers matter, electrons and chemical bonds, formulas and equations, stoichiometry, gases, solutions, energies, acid-base reactions, radioactivity, and introduction to organic chemistry.

CHM 142 (4 credits)
Second semester course of general, organic, and biochemistry sequence designed to meet the needs of students of nursing, dental hygiene, physical therapy, allied health programs, forestry, nutrition, and other majors with comparable requirements. This course covers organic compounds and their characteristics, and biological compounds and their role in living organisms.

Thanks!

Ah yeah those sound a lot more robust than what my local CC offers for non-majors. The ones you listed seem to hit the right things.

 

[ra206p]

@AM508 did u take all/some of ur med school prereqs in a CC? if yes, what classes? thanks

 

[AM508]

@AM508 did u take all/some of ur med schoocurriculum in a CC? if yes, what classes? thanks

I did all my med school pre-reqs at the university level, but became quite well acquainted with the local CC basic science classes as I tutored someone taking those classes for nursing.

 

[jedi silva]

for gen chem 2 did you go into thermodynamics, gas laws, electrochemistry, titrations, ice tables, and stuff like that?

 

[swollcat]

OP - while helpful in their responses, I don't think people here understand the class you're asking about.

OP, you're from California or a western state correct? Taking GENERAL CHEMISTRY at a community college is perfectly fine, but the class you're suggesting isn't general chemistry. General chemistry typically describes a 1 year/2 semester/3 quarter sequence intended for scientists and engineers. This is the type of course that fulfills the requirement for most professional schools such as optometry, dental, pharmacy, and medical.

after this 1 year sequence is complete, students are asked to take another year of ORGANIC CHEMISTRY which is another 1 year/2 semester/3 quarter sequence intended for scientists and engineers.

The class you're suggesting is chemistry for ALLIED HEALTH MAJORS. this fullfills the requirement for nurses/technicians/hygienists/and the other vocational type jobs mentioned in your description.
Even though it is a 1 year/2 semester sequence, it technically combines inorganic chemistry and organic chemistry into one. so for allied health majors, they only have to worry about 1 year of somewhat condensed chemistry, instead of what is suppose to be 2 years.

don't get me wrong, it is still somewhat rigorous since you're basically touching upon 4 semesters worth of classes in just 2, but it nowhere near goes into the same detail as if you were taking GENERAL CHEMISTRY and ORGANIC CHEMISTRY separately.

The textbooks aren't even the same. General Chem students typically use straight up general chem books by authors like zumdahl, tro, klein, etc. a true general chemistry book might touch upon organic chemistry in a few pages in the last chapter, but will NEVER cover it extensively.

allied health chemistry uses a book called something like the principles of general, organic, and biological chemistry that go through many chapters of non-super detailed biochemistry.

Depending on the schools you're applying to, you should definitely check to see if they will accept allied health chem as just a "broad, non-specific chemistry" requirement, but i doubt it because it definitely is not chemistry intended for scientists and engineers and is not what the AAMC tailored its outline to in the MCAT. there will definitely be overlap, but allied health chem is not the tried and true correct way to address MCAT chemistry.

 

[swollcat]

Ah yeah those sound a lot more robust than what my local CC offers for non-majors. The ones you listed seem to hit the right things.

they sound more robust because they are not chemistry courses for non majors per say. there are actually 3 different types of chemistry courses you can take:

1. Chemistry for non-majors: a survey course on the basic principles of chemistry which is recommended to prepare students for general chemistry. no science background needed.
2. chemistry for allied health majors: chemistry, biochemistry, organic chemistry combo meant to give allied health majors adequate exposure to all that is chemistry. students should have a good understanding of high school chemistry.
3. general chemistry: intended for scientists and engineers. transferrable at any university and what you would take if you were majoring in biology, chemistry, pre-med etc. students should have a strong chemistry background with some schools requiring a chemistry placement test as a pre-requisite

 

[AM508]

they sound more robust because they are not chemistry courses for non majors per say. there are actually 3 different types of chemistry courses you can take:

1. Chemistry for non-majors: a survey course on the basic principles of chemistry which is recommended for students in preparation for general chemistry
2. chemistry for allied health majors: chemistry, biochemistry, organic chemistry combo meant to give allied health majors adequate exposure to all that is chemistry
3. general chemistry: intended for scientists and engineers. transferrable at any university and what you would take if you were majoring in biology, chemistry, pre-med etc.

That makes sense. The local CC that I am familiar with only offers choices 1 and 3 from your list. The allied health people at that CC all take chem for non-majors.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Just to be safe, EMAIL AACOMAS AND/OR SOME SCHOOLS and let us know what they say.

 

[AlteredScale]

Hi all!

I've taken gen chem (chem 141 and 142) in a community college.

Will this suffice for the mcat gen chem prereq? Or should i take another chem geared for science majors?

*The cc im attending now has a different gen chem class for science majors (chm.151and 152), and I still have to take o-chem (maybe in a CC also) and biochem in a uni.

These course numbers are strangely familiar to when I was at a CC. Wouldn't happen to be courses from Grossmont or Cuyamca would they? If they are then they lost definitely count!

 

[Cawolf]

@AlteredScale

It can't be from Cuyamca, because I just looked up their chemistry courses.

http://www.cuyamaca.edu/academics/catalog/courses/chem-courses.pdf

At that school 141/142 would be great. He is essentially taking the equivalent of 115/116 at Cuyamca. These are allied health courses that combine General, Organic, and Bio Chemistry all together and are lower course numbers than introductory chemistry.

I am curious though, as my opinion was they were not enough (he posted this in three forums on here). If he said he was taking 115/116 at Cuyamca, what would you opinion be? I think those are the closest courses to what he is taking.

 

[AlteredScale]

@AlteredScale

It can't be from Cuyamca, because I just looked up their chemistry courses.

http://www.cuyamaca.edu/academics/catalog/courses/chem-courses.pdf

At that school 141/142 would be great. He is essentially taking the equivalent of 115/116 at Cuyamca. These are allied health courses that combine General, Organic, and Bio Chemistry all together and are lower course numbers than introductory chemistry.

I am curious though, as my opinion was they were not enough (he posted this in three forums on here). If he said he was taking 115/116 at Cuyamca, what would you opinion be? I think those are the closest courses to what he is taking.

You are correct, chem115/116 is the nursing and allied health series. It's hard to say and I don't want to make an opinion that may hurt OP through misinformation. @Goro and @Catalystik can provide more sound advice for this, however.

 

[Cawolf]

Based on the descriptions he posted in the Non-trad forum, 115/116 are likely the equivalent of what he is taking. I was in a similar situation a couple years ago after switching off an allied health track. I would also be interested in hearing what Goro has to say. I would bet they may be accepted, but highly frowned upon - but likely just outright rejected.

 

[Catalystik]

You are correct, chem115/116 is the nursing and allied health series. It's hard to say and I don't want to make an opinion that may hurt OP through misinformation. @Goro and @Catalystik can provide more sound advice for this, however.

I agree that they may satisfy the requirement, but are far less likely to prepare one well for the MCAT.

Good advice here:

It really depends on the structure of the course I would think. The chemistry offered for nursing students at my local CC really seems insufficient (ie it was missing MANY major gen chem topics that you find in a university level class). It *may* satisfy the application requirements (you should check to make sure), but if is anything like the non-major chem at my local CC, it is not going to have you prepared for the MCAT. You should compare your syllabus for each class to the topics tested on the MCAT to make sure you have all your bases covered.

OP - while helpful in their responses, I don't think people here understand the class you're asking about.

OP, you're from California or a western state correct? Taking GENERAL CHEMISTRY at a community college is perfectly fine, but the class you're suggesting isn't general chemistry. General chemistry typically describes a 1 year/2 semester/3 quarter sequence intended for scientists and engineers. This is the type of course that fulfills the requirement for most professional schools such as optometry, dental, pharmacy, and medical.

after this 1 year sequence is complete, students are asked to take another year of ORGANIC CHEMISTRY which is another 1 year/2 semester/3 quarter sequence intended for scientists and engineers.

The class you're suggesting is chemistry for ALLIED HEALTH MAJORS. this fullfills the requirement for nurses/technicians/hygienists/and the other vocational type jobs mentioned in your description.
Even though it is a 1 year/2 semester sequence, it technically combines inorganic chemistry and organic chemistry into one. so for allied health majors, they only have to worry about 1 year of somewhat condensed chemistry, instead of what is suppose to be 2 years.

don't get me wrong, it is still somewhat rigorous since you're basically touching upon 4 semesters worth of classes in just 2, but it nowhere near goes into the same detail as if you were taking GENERAL CHEMISTRY and ORGANIC CHEMISTRY separately.

The textbooks aren't even the same. General Chem students typically use straight up general chem books by authors like zumdahl, tro, klein, etc. a true general chemistry book might touch upon organic chemistry in a few pages in the last chapter, but will NEVER cover it extensively.

allied health chemistry uses a book called something like the principles of general, organic, and biological chemistry that go through many chapters of non-super detailed biochemistry.

Depending on the schools you're applying to, you should definitely check to see if they will accept allied health chem as just a "broad, non-specific chemistry" requirement, but i doubt it because it definitely is not chemistry intended for scientists and engineers and is not what the AAMC tailored its outline to in the MCAT. there will definitely be overlap, but allied health chem is not the tried and true correct way to address MCAT chemistry.

 

[Goro]

Yes.

Hi all!

I've taken gen chem (chem 141 and 142) in a community college.

Will this suffice for the mcat gen chem prereq? Or should i take another chem geared for science majors?

*The cc im attending now has a different gen chem class for science majors (chm.151and 152), and I still have to take o-chem (maybe in a CC also) and biochem in a uni.

 

[swollcat]

Looking directly at the requirements page of several DO schools, 16 semesters/24 quarter units total of chemistry are required in the form of: 8 semester/12 quarter units of inorganic chemistry with lab and 8 semester/12 quarter units of organic chemistry with lab.

OP you only have what, 8 semester units of chemistry w/lab? you are still 8 semester units short. you are then required to take 8 more semester units or two more classes of chemistry at some point. logic would say that you take organic chemistry I and II next, but I'm 100% your school would not allow you to, since you do not meet the prerequisites for those courses. the prerequisites for organic chemistry I and II are general chemistry I and II; in your case chem 151 and chem 152.

On the other hand, If you went back and took 2 semesters of general chemistry, then I would dare say that you have credit for 16 semester units of "general chemistry" and are still missing the 8 units of organic chemistry unless schools are willing to consider general, organic, and biochemistry as your organic chemistry requirement; either way you would still need another 8 units of chemistry regardless.

OP i'm not trying to throw you off or give you a hard time. While your classes may pass on the surface, if schools you apply to took the time to investigate and look into them, they definitely do not fit the framework of what medical schools have set out in their pre-med curriculum. Of course exceptions can be made, but I'm just taking everything at face value.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

op. Take 2 semesters of gen chem and two semesters of O-chem. Thasit.

 

[Cawolf]

@swollcat Makes a great point.

Using the example school posted above, you would not qualify for the Organic series.

 

[swollcat]

@swollcat Makes a great point.

Using the example school posted above, you would not qualify for the Organic series.

I hate to say this, but thats the problem you face when you are on the nursing track (allied health care pathway) and later change your mind. A friend of mine who was unsure about what he wanted to do, actually took all the "harder" classes to keep his options open and just in case he changed his mind which low and behold he went on to do. He could have taken allied health chemistry and algebra based physics, but instead, took general chemistry (for scientists and engineers) and calculus based physics (absolutely required for most hard science majors ex. chemistry majors).

The school he went to also offered watered down versions of microbiology, physiology, and human anatomy where microbiology was called the principles of microbio and anatomy and physiology were combined into one. the full fledged anatomy, physiology, and microbiology courses they also offered were much harder and worth 5 units a piece instead of the typical 4.

*OP notice that the chem 141 and 142 classes you took are only worth 4 units with lab. Typically general chemistry with lab at a community college/semester system is worth 5 units with lab.