Will I be able to choose my profession?

[bigdreamer#1]

R90T, Yup your right, in fact I'm deployed right now in Africa for Operation Enduring Freedom. I'm on the enlisted side now...was supposed to start med school fall 2004, will have to defer for a year. Point being, there are a lot of docs here now, if you (those thinking of it) go with the scholarship route, you will likely be deployed at least once if not more. Something to consider seriously.

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[ejs064]

The vanilla GMOs can have great times as well.

Sorry, DiveDoc, I can usually get through your lingo and military acronyms without too much difficulty, but this time, I'm lost. VANILLA GMOs?

Hope this thread isn't dead. And thanks much for sound advice from rational people. I'm reconsidering HPSP/FAP partly based on what've I've read here.

 

[Thousandth]

but this time, I'm lost. VANILLA GMOs?

He is refering to just regular GMOs (i.e. those that go on ship after internship with no further training) not Flight Surg or Dive Medicine.

 

[Navy Dive Doc]

Sorry, DiveDoc, I can usually get through your lingo and military acronyms without too much difficulty, but this time, I'm lost. VANILLA GMOs?

Hope this thread isn't dead. And thanks much for sound advice from rational people. I'm reconsidering HPSP/FAP partly based on what've I've read here.

I'm actually glad to see this thread bumped up again, as there was a lot of good discussion and some important points

Thousandth answered the question, I just mean regular shipboard or USMC GMOs. You'll hear that terminology used for "garden variety", regular things. The Senior enlisted EOD techs are famous for using it to describe SEALs. EOD guys do all the HOOYAH stuff that SEALs do, but no one knows who EOD is or what they do. Our PR could use a boost. Anyway, our EOD techs are attached to SEAL platoons as the bomb disposal element (our techs like to point out that the SEALs can't leave without them). Inevitably, in every platoon is some brand new "vanilla SEAL" who thinks he is the S*** because he's wearing a Trident, and this guy with all of 1 year in the Navy is famous for talking down to the EOD Master Tech with 18 years in. Long answer to the question, and I do not mean to imply any derision for my GMO colleagues like we give to the new SEALs. But hence, "vanilla_______"

 

[dtn3t]

I also realize I'm not in med school yet....

You're not even in med school yet???????? wow.

One tip from someone who doesn't have enough experience to give tips: Don't argue with your future superior officers, especially those who live and breathe what you want to become. I've heard arguing like that tends to give you the billet of being the doc for Mortuary Affairs.

 

[funkless]

great thread.

bump

 

[doctor07]

...I've got a cush private practice job lined up making way too much money.

It's been a long time since I have written, but why am I not surprised to see this coming from MilMD? The money always seems to be one of the biggest things he gripes about. The other thing that seem prevalent in his posts is that he is damn bitter because he actually had to deal with a bureaucracy by joining the military. I guess in private practice there is no bureaucracy, and everything is easy. Well, hope you are having fun with the insurance industry now MilMD.

Everything that MilMD says is tinged with a bitter attitude toward the Navy. When you hate your job, you will never be able to say anything good about it. Just a disclaimer for those who hang on every word he says. Remember, he does not speak for everyone in Navy medicine. He will report that he does, but having spoken to MANY Navy physicians myself, I have never seen such discontent. I have heard them complain about some aspects, but never have they been so bitter. Oh well, I certainly hope that when I am a board certified physician, that I am not trolling in StudentDoctor.net spreading my anger at the world. I guess if you have nothing else to do though...

 

[militarymd]

It's been a long time since I have written, but why am I not surprised to see this coming from MilMD? The money always seems to be one of the biggest things he gripes about. The other thing that seem prevalent in his posts is that he is damn bitter because he actually had to deal with a bureaucracy by joining the military. I guess in private practice there is no bureaucracy, and everything is easy. Well, hope you are having fun with the insurance industry now MilMD.

Everything that MilMD says is tinged with a bitter attitude toward the Navy. When you hate your job, you will never be able to say anything good about it. Just a disclaimer for those who hang on every word he says. Remember, he does not speak for everyone in Navy medicine. He will report that he does, but having spoken to MANY Navy physicians myself, I have never seen such discontent. I have heard them complain about some aspects, but never have they been so bitter. Oh well, I certainly hope that when I am a board certified physician, that I am not trolling in StudentDoctor.net spreading my anger at the world. I guess if you have nothing else to do though...

I don't know why people speak so badly about insurance companies. I bill them. They pay.....waaaay too much, I might add.

I do not troll. I spend my free time....which is quite a lot now....giving a point of view that is important to potential victims of recruiters.

Please answer these questions....if the Navy is so great, then why is everyone getting out.....why the retention problems....why all these bonuses to try to keep people in (CSRB the last time around....what a joke and insult to anyone who can get a job in private practice)....why do the recruiters not tell the truth...why...why...why...

 

[KerleyB]

Why the retention problem.... MONEY MONEY MONEY !!! The military has a fresh bunch of future attendings in the ranks all the time, and can afford to lose many of their docs rather than pay market value. Thus, the military makes a calculated decision based on cash, and so do many of the mil docs getting out immediately after payback. Remember too, most of the people who choose the HPSP/USUHS are choosing based on money so what do you expect out of that group - they bolt for the cash immediately. The idea that it has anything to do with the "horror of military medicince" is crazy. Military medicine, like medicine anywhere, is full of things that SUCK! Military med has some unique crappy features, but so does the promised land of private practice when compared to the former.

People who want to spend all there time and energy going over the tiny details of why their situation sucks are sooooo much fun to be around. Medicine is still the greatest job in the world.... SMILE for craps sake.

 

[militarymd]

Why the retention problem.... MONEY MONEY MONEY !!! The military has a fresh bunch of future attendings in the ranks all the time, and can afford to lose many of their docs rather than pay market value. Thus, the military makes a calculated decision based on cash, and so do many of the mil docs getting out immediately after payback. Remember too, most of the people who choose the HPSP/USUHS are choosing based on money so what do you expect out of that group - they bolt for the cash immediately. The idea that it has anything to do with the "horror of military medicince" is crazy. Military medicine, like medicine anywhere, is full of things that SUCK! Military med has some unique crappy features, but so does the promised land of private practice when compared to the former.

People who want to spend all there time and energy going over the tiny details of why their situation sucks are sooooo much fun to be around. Medicine is still the greatest job in the world.... SMILE for craps sake.

Aren't you listening? I AM smiling!!!

 

[GMO_52]

Aren't you listening? I AM smiling!!!

Way back when I started that viewpoint thread, my hope was to put this discussion in one place so that every thread doesn't have to degenerate into a "why I hate military medicine/why is xmildmd so bitter" thread. This thread was titled "will I get to choose my specialty" and that is a really important and complex question.

In general, all the specialties of civilian medicine are available to military physicians but that may be changing. I don't think its clear at all what will happen to Peds (and that is not just a Navy thing, the services may lag behind each other but what happens to one...). Further, because we have fewer applicants and fewer spots, competition for a given residency is much less predictable than on the outside. A couple of years ago, there weren't enough applicants for all the Rads slots in one service. This year, Navy ophtho rejected a couple of unbelievable applicants (including a hopkins grad who happened to have been the honor grad at that trade school in annapolis and a great intern).

The bottom line is that you can't be sure that you will be offered your specialty of choice when you sign up and that, at the moment, peds looks particularly vulnerable. Also, dual residencies (with the exception of med/psych at WRAMC) are much harder to come by. You also might well change your mind about what specialty you want along the way, so this could become a problem for you even though your current plan is wide open.

 

[Croooz]

The bottom line is that you can't be sure that you will be offered your specialty of choice when you sign up and that, at the moment, peds looks particularly vulnerable. Also, dual residencies (with the exception of med/psych at WRAMC) are much harder to come by. You also might well change your mind about what specialty you want along the way, so this could become a problem for you even though your current plan is wide open.

I'm torn with how the military will look in the 3 years in takes me to get back in. The specialties I'm interested in are ubber deployable, regardless of service...so does that mean they will be easier to get? Or since the majority of applicants will accept the op tempo will these specialties become ubber competitive as well??? I can see, without question, a service of surgeons, EM's & some IM's. Peds, OB, FP...contracted out.

I don't doubt I will have the specialty of my choice...as long as my choice matches the needs of the military. I'm "entitled" to some "insider" info about the Navy and it isn't classified to say numbers are getting slashed across the board. While there are shortages of medical personnel there are still too many for this administrations plans. Cuts are coming and these are arterial in depth. I was advised by our command's admin director NOT to go to USUHS nor take HPSP...basically leave the military alone. Too much work for not enough people and it's only getting worse...or better if you're a bean counter.

This is a complicated question with the current and pending climate. I guess I'll have to stick to Semper Gumby.

 

[nettaw]

Ok. So i got excited when i saw the title of this thread. However, i got a bit dismayed as the thread jumped from topic to topic. I do not post comments often and i was hoping to somewhat steer this thread back to the original post, "will I be able to choose my profession". I am currently on Army HPSP. One thing that attracted me to the Army HPSP over the others was the increased "opportunities" to practice in the field of "my choice". My question is more about a given case scenario. Lets say I want Ophthamology which has 6-transitional and 3-residency locations. From my understanding I rank 5 transitional programs and designate Ophthamology as my specialty choice. What are the possible "outcomes" if I do not get offered a preliminary Ophth. position? Will I have the "chance" for a deferrment? Can they just stick me in a transitional program w/o a preselect position and then I have to reapply later for the PGY-2. Also, what would happen if I reapplied for the PGY-2 and do not get it then? What would they do with me that 2nd year or is this even a possibility? Anyone?

My confusion comes mainly bec there are so many opinions and its hard sometimes to separate fact from fiction. As I am learning (especially after reading a bunch of posts over the past few months) the very people who are suppose to guide us are sometimes giving contradictory info. Not to say this is done intentionally, but alot can be "misread" especially when certain choice words are used in both our written and verbal language or if the receptor only wants to hear what he/she "wants" to hear. Case in point I read the Army Medical Education website about how to pick and designate your specialty. I must admit, everytime I read it I catch something new or interpret it a different way. Hence, this is the reason why I want to redirect the thread back to original post. Anyone out there that can help or steer the confused people (such as myself ) in the right direction?

PS- if anyone knows of a good resource or person I can speak to, PLEASE pm me. Thanks

 

[Mirror Form]

My question is more about a given case scenario. Lets say I want Ophthamology which has 6-transitional and 3-residency locations. From my understanding I rank 5 transitional programs and designate Ophthamology as my specialty choice. What are the possible "outcomes" if I do not get offered a preliminary Ophth. position? Will I have the "chance" for a deferrment? Can they just stick me in a transitional program w/o a preselect position and then I have to reapply later for the PGY-2. Also, what would happen if I reapplied for the PGY-2 and do not get it then? What would they do with me that 2nd year or is this even a possibility? Anyone?

Yes, you have a "chance" for a deferrment, but there is no gaurantee. If you don't match into any army prelim-ophtho intern year programs and also don't get a deferrment, then I'm not really sure what happens for your pgy-1 year. Regardless, your chances of getting an army ophtho slot right after intern year would be slim to none. So after intern year, you'd have to do a gmo tour and then re-apply.

 

[dyk33]

even in civilian world, you don't always get what you want. just because you want to get into derm, you don't get into derm. and if you don't match, most likely you will be forced into doing something else. why should military be any different?

 

[dyk33]

in ophtho this year, from what i heard, there were 8 applicants for 7 spots. 7 matched and one got a deferment. god help this applicant in civ match.

 

[dyk33]

before they started preselecting, i think you had to apply for prelim years and apply as an intern. now that they preselect, you have a chance to match only if someone drops out--just like civ world. if you get neither preselected nor civ deferred but offered a transitional, you would have to do an internship year, then re-apply for PGY-2, which means you would have to do a year of GMO.

 

[nettaw]

thanks for the replies

 

[aatrek]

Hey all..
If you are concerened about being able to do what you wanna do, not what the navy wants you to do, (which you should be), then think three letters, FAP.......

trust me onthis one, I know everything about it, and have been in it for 5 years and know the guys in Beth. and SD well.. so ask if you wanna know.

have a great day.. god knows its freezing here in chicago... 3deg.. I think I see a pollar bear out in the street

A.

 

[militarymd]

bump

 

[dtrainer]

This may have been covered elsewhere but I am curious how deferments are allocated amongst applicants. For example, let's say that a service as a projected need of 30 internists in three years yet they only have 20 military residency spots available. Presumably, ten defermants would be offered. Would the service take the most competetive applicants first and give deferments to the rest or is it the other way around (i.e., applicants compete for deferments)?

 

[NavyFP]

This may have been covered elsewhere but I am curious how deferments are allocated amongst applicants. For example, let's say that a service as a projected need of 30 internists in three years yet they only have 20 military residency spots available. Presumably, ten defermants would be offered. Would the service take the most competetive applicants first and give deferments to the rest or is it the other way around (i.e., applicants compete for deferments)?

A mixture of the two. Military residencies want the strongest applicants to remain in their programs, but you do need to reward people for being good and want deferments. Some will stay, some will go. Numbers of deferments are a little less cut and dry to begin with anyway.

 

[350011]

I have these two powerpoints and a few other .pdf's on my computer but they're too big to attach. The links below should shed some insight on the whole deferrment issue. Hope they help to answer your questions...

State of the Medical Corps report from 2006 (couldn't find a more recent version):
http://www-nehc.med.navy.mil/Downloads/06Conference/OEM/Stateofthe_MC_short_vers.ppt

Navy GME Report from 2005, including deferrment rates by specialty:
http://www.studentorgs.txstate.edu/... and Residency Medcruit II Brief Nov 2005.ppt