biafra

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i am dental school and will graduate at 32, i plan to enroll in the FAP during my residency and thereafter stay on with the military for 20-25 years.my question is will i make the rank of major general within this time? :confused: thanks
 

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Depends upon your dedication and ability to get a long well with those under your command as well as your superiors.
 

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why would you want to is the question? I guess you plan on becoming an administrator instead of being a dentist...I say go for it...you'd probably get it
 

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biafra said:
i am dental school and will graduate at 32, i plan to enroll in the FAP during my residency and thereafter stay on with the military for 20-25 years.my question is will i make the rank of major general within this time? :confused: thanks
As far as I can tell, the chief of the USAF Dental Corps is a brigadier general. There was a resolution in 2002 to raise this to major general, but, as far as I could research, there are no MG dentists in the USAF.

O-8 (Major General) is the highest line officer (undesignated) you can get (meaning, you can be promoted up the chain, and there is no theoretical limit to how many there can be). For 3 or 4 stars (LTG/GEN or VADM/ADM), you need a specific job (like when John Poindexter was National Security Advisor - when he lost his job, he wanted to resign as VADM, but, when a person gives up the job that gave them the third or fourth star, that person reverts to their previous rank 30 days later). The Surgeon General of the USAF is a lieutenant general (currently LTG George P. Taylor, with MG James G. Roudebush as LTG (sel) and next Surgeon General, effective 1 OCT 2006).
.
 

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Major General (P) Russell J. Czerw, the current commanding general of the Army Medical Department Center & School, Ft. Sam Houston, TX is a dentist.

MG Joseph G. Webb Jr. also a dentist is the current Deputy Surgeon General of the Army.
 

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biafra said:
i am dental school and will graduate at 32, i plan to enroll in the FAP during my residency and thereafter stay on with the military for 20-25 years.my question is will i make the rank of major general within this time? :confused: thanks
Why would you want to?
 

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GMO2003 said:
Major General (P) Russell J. Czerw, the current commanding general of the Army Medical Department Center & School, Ft. Sam Houston, TX is a dentist.

MG Joseph G. Webb Jr. also a dentist is the current Deputy Surgeon General of the Army.
For some reason, I thought this guy was talking about the Air Force. I easily found the data you have posted, but thought that that was not what the guy was looking for.

I did not intend ANY slight to Army dentists.
 
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biafra

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Pemberley said:
Why would you want to?
why would i want to join the military? or why would i want to become MG? please clarify your question
 
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biafra

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Apollyon said:
For some reason, I thought this guy was talking about the Air Force. I easily found the data you have posted, but thought that that was not what the guy was looking for.

I did not intend ANY slight to Army dentists.
sorry guys maybe my post wasnt clear enuf,i really dont care about the branch of the military i join,ofcourse i know there are dentists that are 08.i asked the question because i will be 32 when i join the military i want to know if after 25 years i could still make 08.i am really fascinated with the MG rank :D
 

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biafra said:
sorry guys maybe my post wasnt clear enuf,i really dont care about the branch of the military i join,ofcourse i know there are dentists that are 08.i asked the question because i will be 32 when i join the military i want to know if after 25 years i could still make 08.i am really fascinated with the MG rank :D

If this isn't some sort of joke, then you are really clueless. Your age isn't the issue.

You shouldn't expect advancement to that level at all as it isn't part of the normal course of military professional career development. Early and consistent advancement with multiple deep selections for the next grade is more typical for flag ranked officers. In medical/dental, that comes with some clinical practice experience, residency completion and board certification but early preference for administration, selection for advanced officer and management schools (would you be competitive as an applicant to Harvard Business School, for instance) and a train of leadership posts to include CEO of a major military treatment facility or two. Only after that, you need luck and being in the right place at the right time.

At any age, your chances of becoming O-8 are low; there are just too few opportunities and only short windows of eligibility. You are far more likely to be separated and retired before then.
 

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I'm not sure if dentistry is the same, but physicians in the AF have automatic advancements (ie. non-competitive) up to O-5 based on time. After that, the promotions are competitive and difficult to attain. So, at least in the AF, it's very easy to make LtCol but it's becoming increasingly difficult to make Col. Making the next step to BG is exceedingly rare for anyone in the medical profession.
 

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orbitsurgMD said:
If this isn't some sort of joke, then you are really clueless. Your age isn't the issue.

You shouldn't expect advancement to that level at all as it isn't part of the normal course of military professional career development. Early and consistent advancement with multiple deep selections for the next grade is more typical for flag ranked officers. In medical/dental, that comes with some clinical practice experience, residency completion and board certification but early preference for administration, selection for advanced officer and management schools (would you be competitive as an applicant to Harvard Business School, for instance) and a train of leadership posts to include CEO of a major military treatment facility or two. Only after that, you need luck and being in the right place at the right time.

At any age, your chances of becoming O-8 are low; there are just too few opportunities and only short windows of eligibility. You are far more likely to be separated and retired before then.
Excellent advice!
 

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It is key to remember that getting to general is very difficult! While I am sure you have thought of that, it is probably a more likely goal to shoot for COL. The stats across the whole military range at about, 0.1% of ALL military officers make O-7. But never sale yourself short - if you work hard and impress the right people, general is a real option! You also have to be willing to give up a large part of your patient interaction and be willing to take part in the Admin stuff. Good Luck.
 

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FliteSurgn said:
I'm not sure if dentistry is the same, but physicians in the AF have automatic advancements (ie. non-competitive) up to O-5 based on time. After that, the promotions are competitive and difficult to attain. So, at least in the AF, it's very easy to make LtCol but it's becoming increasingly difficult to make Col. Making the next step to BG is exceedingly rare for anyone in the medical profession.
From what I know the advancements in the army dental corps are pretty regular. After so many years at the present grade one would become eligable for advancement to the next grade as long as the dentist is in shape, not avoiding assignments, and have not done anything to make anyone too mad. As long as a dentist has specialized and has their ducks in a row they WILL retire as 06. As far as becoming chief that is all politics (hard work (administrative) , knowing the right people and being in the right place at the right time)
 

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Is it true for the medical guys that O6 and up is all admin stuff? Maybe when I'm too old and senile to practice I would consider admin, but not until then. If this is the case then I probably won't stay in after O5.
 

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GMO2003 said:
Major General (P) Russell J. Czerw, the current commanding general of the Army Medical Department Center & School, Ft. Sam Houston, TX is a dentist.

MG Joseph G. Webb Jr. also a dentist is the current Deputy Surgeon General of the Army.
MG(P) Czerw is a Buffalo grad who was on a ROTC scholarship for undergrad at St. Lawrence. He graduated from Buffalo in 86 or 87 and was LTC by 1995. He has attended the Army War College and has published some papers, one of which was titled "Future of ARmy Dentistry" or something like that. Just thought I'd throw this info in here. My dad was his dental school classmate.


I think its highly doubtful that you would expect to become a MG even after 20-25yrs, though MG(P) Czerw seems like an exception, considering he has been out ~20 years from D School.

You can expect to retire O6 pretty much guaranteed by 22 years if you do ANY specialty as a dentist, including the 2year AEGD.
 

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biafra said:
i am dental school and will graduate at 32, i plan to enroll in the FAP during my residency and thereafter stay on with the military for 20-25 years.my question is will i make the rank of major general within this time? :confused: thanks

No you won't....
and the fact that you asked this question means you really did no research before signing up.....

you would have more chance of being a US Senator in the next 25 years
 

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Apollyon said:
O-8 (Major General) is the highest line officer (undesignated) you can get (meaning, you can be promoted up the chain, and there is no theoretical limit to how many there can be).
There is a limit on the number of generals:

U.S. law strictly limits the total number of general officers that may be on active duty at any time. This number is set at 302 for the Army, 279 for the Air Force, and 80 for the Marine Corps. Of these, no more than 50% may rank higher than Brigadier General. The percentage of generals ranking higher than Major General is capped at 15.7% for the Army and Air Force and 17.5% for the Marine Corps, and out of that total, no more than 25% may rank as a full General. This typically works out to about thirty full Generals on active duty at a time.
Very few docs get to the general position. As one poster mentioned, much of the promotion is based upon timing. With Lt. Gen Taylor in charge as the only O-9, hopeful physicians must wait for him to retire for further advancement.
 

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biafra said:
i am dental school and will graduate at 32, i plan to enroll in the FAP during my residency and thereafter stay on with the military for 20-25 years.my question is will i make the rank of major general within this time? :confused: thanks

Since you asked the question, my answer would be God I hope not.
 

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biafra said:
i am dental school and will graduate at 32, i plan to enroll in the FAP during my residency and thereafter stay on with the military for 20-25 years.my question is will i make the rank of major general within this time? :confused: thanks
who knows, by that time you may be one of the only doctors still doing military medicine, so the odds may be in your favor
 

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deuist said:
There is a limit on the number of generals:



Very few docs get to the general position. As one poster mentioned, much of the promotion is based upon timing. With Lt. Gen Taylor in charge as the only O-9, hopeful physicians must wait for him to retire for further advancement.

Peach Taylor is a one year trained flight surgeon. He has no recognized specialty training, and is the epitome of an physician who is nothing but an administrator. He has never taken care of an inpatient, and likely has only seen clinic patients. At least that is what I have heard. Anyone heard different? This is part of the reason military medicine is in the problem that it is. Leadership with no experience, knowledge, or intelligence(???).
 

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deuist said:
There is a limit on the number of generals:

Very few docs get to the general position. As one poster mentioned, much of the promotion is based upon timing. With Lt. Gen Taylor in charge as the only O-9, hopeful physicians must wait for him to retire for further advancement.
My error on the limit for generals.

As for LTG Taylor, see my post above (ie, he's retiring).
 

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Galo said:
Peach Taylor is a one year trained flight surgeon. He has no recognized specialty training, and is the epitome of an physician who is nothing but an administrator. He has never taken care of an inpatient, and likely has only seen clinic patients. At least that is what I have heard. Anyone heard different? This is part of the reason military medicine is in the problem that it is. Leadership with no experience, knowledge, or intelligence(???).
Huh? From www.af.mil: "General Taylor is board certified in aerospace medicine by the American Board of Preventive Medicine"

And the ABPM is an accredited board by the ABMS.

His biography also states his surgical internship in Greenville SC (in fact, at my hospital), then (several years later) completion of a residency in aerospace medicine.

As to touching patients, I can't say, but the guy has his training.
 

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Galo said:
Peach Taylor is a one year trained flight surgeon. He has no recognized specialty training, and is the epitome of an physician who is nothing but an administrator. He has never taken care of an inpatient, and likely has only seen clinic patients. At least that is what I have heard. Anyone heard different? This is part of the reason military medicine is in the problem that it is. Leadership with no experience, knowledge, or intelligence(???).
LTG Taylor is residency-trained in aerospace medicine: http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=7345

I don't know about his inpatient record, but everything is available on his bio.
 

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Apollyon said:
Huh? From www.af.mil: "General Taylor is board certified in aerospace medicine by the American Board of Preventive Medicine"

And the ABPM is an accredited board by the ABMS.

His biography also states his surgical internship in Greenville SC (in fact, at my hospital), then (several years later) completion of a residency in aerospace medicine.

As to touching patients, I can't say, but the guy has his training.
My mistake, yes he did the one year aerospace course and is subsequently board certified in a field fairly unique to the military, and civil aviation. He is still a doc with ONE year of post medical school training. There is no other residency that is ONE year. He also has a masters of public health. My point is he is not a seasoned physician, as the majority of his career has been in management of others, NOT patients.
 

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deuist said:
U.S. law strictly limits the total number of general officers that may be on active duty at any time. This number is set at 302 for the Army, 279 for the Air Force, and 80 for the Marine Corps. Of these, no more than 50% may rank higher than Brigadier General. The percentage of generals ranking higher than Major General is capped at 15.7% for the Army and Air Force and 17.5% for the Marine Corps, and out of that total, no more than 25% may rank as a full General. This typically works out to about thirty full Generals on active duty at a time.
Right now, there are 5 Generals in the USMC - I don't know the last time outside of war that there were so many. When I was a kid, I remember PX Kelley being the only 4-star, when he was Commandant. Now, the Commandant, Assistant Commandant, Chairman JCS, Commander US Strategic Command, and SACEUR are all jarheads.

<insert USMC bark> (I don't know how to spell it)
 

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Apollyon said:
Right now, there are 5 Generals in the USMC - I don't know the last time outside of war that there were so many. When I was a kid, I remember PX Kelley being the only 4-star, when he was Commandant. Now, the Commandant, Assistant Commandant, Chairman JCS, Commander US Strategic Command, and SACEUR are all jarheads.
Generals who serve in roles outside of the military line are not included in those numbers. For example, when Air Force Gen Hayden became the head of the NSA, another spot for a 4-star opened. We then get more generals than the law allows. I don't know why we currently have so many generals for the marines; maybe SACEUR is one of the positions that doesn't count against the quota. I also think that the President and Defense Secretary can bend the rules during wartime.
 

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deuist said:
I don't know why we currently have so many generals for the Marines; maybe SACEUR is one of the positions that doesn't count against the quota. I also think that the President and Defense Secretary can bend the rules during wartime.
Well, the SACEUR is also the Commander, U.S. European Command, so I think it's very much an operational billet. I find it interesting, also, that GEN Jones was the 32nd Commandant of the USMC, then moved on to become SACEUR (versus Commandant being his terminal billet).
 

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militarymd said:
you do know that "aerospace medicine" is code word for "no real training".


This is the truth... aerospace medicine residency is akin to going to Barnes & Noble and picking up the "Primary Care Medicine for Dummies". It lets others above you know that you have bought into the system and are on board with screwing the beneficiaries and physicians below you in the best interest of the bottom fiscal line.
 

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former military said:
This is the truth... aerospace medicine residency is akin to going to Barnes & Noble and picking up the "Primary Care Medicine for Dummies". It lets others above you know that you have bought into the system and are on board with screwing the beneficiaries and physicians below you in the best interest of the bottom fiscal line.

I did not want to put it so bluntly, but oh the truth it is. See how benefitial it is to vent. Please do not jump all over him and acuse him of post military medicine stress syndrome like I was labeled on some of my rants, but again, how easy it is to put the plain truth out there.