Will medical school acceptance become more difficult?

[Law2Doc]

There are people on the Osteopathic forums claiming family docs can earn 200 to 250k a year working a major US metro area which I find to be ridiculous.

I have heard a number of inflated numbers on physician incomes which are out of touch with reality.

There are always outliers. There are people earning in that range, a few that earn more, a larger number less. Never get suckered into anecdotal evidence -- that will not be you -- you in all probability statisticlly will not be an exception to the mean, but will be around the mean. We all "know a guy", but he's irrelevant to your own career.

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[medic86]

If you are working in the middle of nowhere, but not a top 10 US metro city.

Law2Doc echoed what I stated. In these top 10 US metro areas, there will be family medicine doctors making that much or more. But it won't be the average.

 

[Seth Joo]

There are always outliers. There are people earning in that range, a few that earn more, a larger number less. Never get suckered into anecdotal evidence -- that will not be you -- you in all probability statisticlly will not be an exception to the mean, but will be around the mean. We all "know a guy", but he's irrelevant to your own career.

Yes there are outliers, people on SDN seem mention outliers, Family Doctors earning over 250k a year are outliers or working 80 hours a week. Most primary care physicians earn around 150-175k a year nationally, go to a city with a surplus of doctors and I think the average would be the lower end of that range.

 

[Law2Doc]

Yes there are outliers, people on SDN seem mention outliers, Family Doctors earning over 250k a year are outliers or working 80 hours a week. Most primary care physicians earn around 150-175k a year nationally, go to a city with a surplus of doctors and I think the average would be the lower end of that range.

Medscape publishes a pretty reasonable salary survey each year of what doctors in various specialties earn. It's usually more than the 150k you are mentioning, but certainly not as high as some of the recruiter generated figures floating around SDN. But doctors still do pretty well IMHO. And cities often do pay salaries that reflect a higher cost of living, gluts notwithstanding. It's harder to find a job there, but when you do the salaries are not reflective of the surplus ... yet... I expect that's coming some day but hasn't significantly happened yet.

And outside of surgery you probably won't be working 80 hours a week after residency. You may work a lot early on, to pay your dues, but the average for most fields is more in the 60s. And fwiw there isn't a high correlation between doctors who work more hours and make more money unless you are self employed. Working more hours gives you better job security and maybe keeps you on partnership tracks but doesn't translate to salary so directly in a group. (there are of course group setups where you can take on more weekend/evening work and earn more, but that's not what we are talking about here). Thus you can't really say someone who earns X must be working more hours and not in a city. But you can say the average is Y so people who earn X are outliers.

 

[Seth Joo]

Medscape publishes a pretty reasonable salary survey each year of what primarydoctors earn. It's more than the 150k you are mentioning, but not as high as some of the figures floating around SDN. But doctors do pretty well. And cities often do pay salaries that reflect the higher cost of living. And outside of surgery you probably won't be working 80 hours a week after residency. In general, ignore the salary figures seen on some of the recruiting websites -- they are just printing salaries high enough to make people call them, not what they can actually get you.

I think the primary care physicians who are earning 200k+ are working extra hours seeing more patients than normal. One of the posters I saw claiming doctors in Chicago were pulling 250k a year in FM then said they were working around 80 hours a week, then I figured it out.

Yes doctors make a good living, but not one where you will live in opulent luxury, living in palatial mansions and driving exotic European sports cars, only a small percent do that.

 

[Law2Doc]

I think the primary care physicians who are earning 200k+ are working extra hours seeing more patients than normal. One of the posters I saw claiming doctors in Chicago were pulling 250k a year in FM then said they were working around 80 hours a week, then I figured it out.

Yes doctors make a good living, but not one where you will live in opulent luxury, living in palatial mansions and driving exotic European sports cars, only a small percent do that.

If you are self employed, more patients equals more $. Otherwise it just means your employers will be happy with you.

You won't have a palatial mansion or a Ferrari as a doctor. You can hopefully have a nice suburban middle class home and a Honda.

 

[Seth Joo]

You won't have a palatial mansion or a Ferrari as a doctor. You can hopefully have a nice suburban middle class home and a Honda.

You need to work at Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley for that.

 

[WingedOx]

If you are self employed, more patients equals more $. Otherwise it just means your employers will be happy with you.

You won't have a palatial mansion or a Ferrari as a doctor. You can hopefully have a nice suburban middle class home and a Honda.

@Seth Joo
Well one of the multispecialty physicians groups I interviewed with had a setup where 80% of the revenue generated beyond the hospital's minimum requirements goes straight into your pocket... given this was indeed in Chicago, the 250+ primary care number does indeed seem possible, without the burdens of self-employment. Of course, you need to put the hours in.

The question is, after working all those hours, how much is indeed worth it? I've seen a lot of young physicians try to earn as much as they can before the kids start popping out, but after a while you have to balance burnout.

 

[Seth Joo]

@Seth Joo
Well one of the multispecialty physicians groups I interviewed with had a setup where 80% of the revenue generated beyond the hospital's minimum requirements goes straight into your pocket... given this was indeed in Chicago, the 250+ primary care number does indeed seem possible, without the burdens of self-employment. Of course, you need to put the hours in.

The question is, after working all those hours, how much is indeed worth it? I've seen a lot of young physicians try to earn as much as they can before the kids start popping out, but after a while you have to balance burnout.

That is what I figured, they are working long hours for that kind of money not 35 hours a week going home at 4 or 5pm.

 

[WingedOx]

That is what I figured, they are working long hours for that kind of money not 35 hours a week going home at 4 or 5pm.

Also, this same hospital system was concentrated in affluent areas and didn't take public aid FWIW.

 

[Seth Joo]

Also, this same hospital system was concentrated in affluent areas and didn't take public aid FWIW.

Another thing that I figured, and DOs do not tend to work in affluent areas.

 

[WingedOx]

Another thing that I figured, and DOs do not tend to work in affluent areas.

Eh, I'm from (and in) the Midwest. Around me, DOs are everywhere. My hometown hospital was a major osteo training center. Not a major metro, but a nice suburb of a smaller city. Plus there are plenty floating around the Chicago area too.

 

[Seth Joo]

Eh, I'm from (and in) the Midwest. Around me, DOs are everywhere. My hometown hospital was a major osteo training center. Not a major metro, but a nice suburb of a smaller city. Plus there are plenty floating around the Chicago area too.

The Midwest has plenty of DOs, but seeing DOs in Boston is a rare event, they do exist but not as common as Michigan and Illinois.

 

[TheShowGoesOn]

Eh, I'm from (and in) the Midwest. Around me, DOs are everywhere. My hometown hospital was a major osteo training center. Not a major metro, but a nice suburb of a smaller city. Plus there are plenty floating around the Chicago area too.

We all know Bojack lives in LA.

 

[jl lin]

That is what I figured, they are working long hours for that kind of money not 35 hours a week going home at 4 or 5pm.

Just about no one in any field makes near six figures per year or over by working 35 hours per week. An exception may be a CRNA, but they still have to take call. In business and other areas, salary is the name of the game, and you will not move anywhere but out if you don't put in well over 60+ hours per week--not including travel time--either to work, or travel time for business.

 

[jl lin]

The Midwest has plenty of DOs, but seeing DOs in Boston is a rare event, they do exist but not as common as Michigan and Illinois.

Eh. No offense to Boston lovers, but Boston is highly overrated in my view.

 

[jl lin]

http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2015/familymedicine#page=3

 

[WingedOx]

Eh. No offense to Boston lovers, but Boston is highly overrated in my view.

Boston is what happens when you pay for New York but get Philadelphia.

 

[Seth Joo]

Boston is what happens when you pay for New York but get Philadelphia.

Philadelphia has much higher rates of crime, also Boston is a much nicer and cleaner city. Even in films like The Departed where they try to make the city seem mean and gritty it looks like a pleasant and nice town. It is one of a handful of large US cities that ranks among the best quality of life cities on Earth, where only European and Canadian cities are often on the list.

 

[WingedOx]

Philadelphia has much higher rates of crime, also Boston is a much nicer and cleaner city. Even in films like The Departed where they try to make the city seem mean and gritty it looks like a pleasant and nice town. It is one of a handful of large US cities that ranks among the best quality of life cities on Earth, where only European and Canadian cities are often on the list.

while my comment was more of a sarcastic shot at a city full of defensive residents who can't take a joke, crime rates are kind of a ****ty way to compare quality of life in a city. Philly's crime is heavily concentrated in areas of poverty on the north and west sides. The sh-t going down on the far north side isn't really affecting your life among the brownstones in Washington Square west or Bella Vista.

To be honest, crime rates are a stupid way to compare cities in general. I hear people (mostly Rahm Emanuel apologists) talk about how discussions about Chicago's crime problem are overblown because "Chicago's crime rate is way less than Detroit." On the numbers, this is accurate, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Detroit is basically what happens when you slice Chicago off at Grand Avenue and count everything north of that line as separate suburbs. Detroit doesn't have the large areas of high-density wealth that Chicago does to depress the per-capita crime rates. That doesn't mean that Chicago's homicide rate isn't a serious, poorly handled problem. Something like 4 of the top 6 zip codes for per-capita violent crime are in the city.

end threadjack .

 

[jl lin]

while my comment was more of a sarcastic shot at a city full of defensive residents who can't take a joke, crime rates are kind of a ****ty way to compare quality of life in a city. Philly's crime is heavily concentrated in areas of poverty on the north and west sides. The sh-t going down on the far north side isn't really affecting your life among the brownstones in Washington Square west or Bella Vista.

To be honest, crime rates are a stupid way to compare cities in general. I hear people (mostly Rahm Emanuel apologists) talk about how discussions about Chicago's crime problem are overblown because "Chicago's crime rate is way less than Detroit." On the numbers, this is accurate, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Detroit is basically what happens when you slice Chicago off at Grand Avenue and count everything north of that line as separate suburbs. Detroit doesn't have the large areas of high-density wealth that Chicago does to depress the per-capita crime rates. That doesn't mean that Chicago's homicide rate isn't a serious, poorly handled problem. Something like 4 of the top 6 zip codes for per-capita violent crime are in the city.

end threadjack .

LOL. We may have shared some similar experiences.


Yes, to be sure, every area has their "bad areas." There is little getting away from it, unless you want to go off the grid, and even then, is there really such a thing as going off the grid, unless you are talking about remote areas of Alaska and Canada?

If there are areas that are highly reminiscent of rural and more remote areas, but really aren't quite so, keep these places to yourself, but just know, they probably won't be so remote in a decade or so. Alaskan areas will remain rough, b/c there are many areas in which they are truly tough to live--nothing like rural-like suburbia. If you are looking for more pleasant climates, more than likely you will feel the squeeze immediately or in no time at all.

It's funny, however, when I meet people that grew up in warmer climates, like Mexico, and they move up and love the cold and snow. I think it's yet novel to them. When you are raised in it, there comes a time when the thrill of long, gray winters, slush, or walls of snow become quite tiresome. So, although Boston has some charm to it, it too becomes a bit much. There are, however, folks in the upper and outer parts of New England that come off as less condescending and self-important. Those areas would be fine areas in which to live, if one is apt to tolerate the very severe and LONG winters--certainly not like much of Alaska, but tough enough. I choose to tolerate now only abbreviated winters over terribly protracted ones.

For a number of reasons I find certain areas of Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania, as well as Philly a little more temperate with regard to both climates and people as compared to Boston. Certain of these areas have access to major cities for entertainment, while also being near ocean areas or other pleasant rural areas. New England is lovely, so long as you don't have to bunker down for the long, cold winters.

And Chicago...nope. Great lakes or not, nope. A place to visit, but for me, not to live, at least not indefinitely.

 

[WingedOx]

LOL. We may have shared some similar experiences.


Yes, to be sure, every area has their "bad areas." There is little getting away from it, unless you want to go off the grid, and even then, is there really such a thing as going off the grid, unless you are talking about remote areas of Alaska and Canada?

If there are areas that are highly reminiscent of rural and more remote areas, but really aren't quite so, keep these places to yourself, but just know, they probably won't be so remote in a decade or so. Alaskan areas will remain rough, b/c there are many areas in which they are truly tough to live--nothing like rural-like suburbia. If you are looking for more pleasant climates, more than likely you will feel the squeeze immediately or in no time at all.

It's funny, however, when I meet people that grew up in warmer climates, like Mexico, and they move up and love the cold and snow. I think it's yet novel to them. When you are raised in it, there comes a time when the thrill of long, gray winters, slush, or walls of snow become quite tiresome. So, although Boston has some charm to it, it too becomes a bit much. There are, however, folks in the upper and outer parts of New England that come off as less condescending and self-important. Those areas would be fine areas in which to live, if one is apt to tolerate the very severe and LONG winters--certainly not like much of Alaska, but tough enough. I choose to tolerate now only abbreviated winters over terribly protracted ones.

For a number of reasons I find certain areas of Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania, as well as Philly a little more temperate with regard to both climates and people as compared to Boston. Certain of these areas have access to major cities for entertainment, while also being near ocean areas or other pleasant rural areas. New England is lovely, so long as you don't have to bunker down for the long, cold winters.

When I lived in Philly I think Center City got about 3 inches of snow in two years the first two years I was there. The second two, we had like 5 MAJOR noreasterns nearly shut down the city, but yeah, the climate was way more temperate than the Midwest.

I've also now lived on both sides of the Great Lakes. I'm still not sure which I prefer: the sunny but below zero winters in Wisconsin or the never see the sun but constantly in the 20s winters of southern Ontario.

 

[Seth Joo]

while my comment was more of a sarcastic shot at a city full of defensive residents who can't take a joke, crime rates are kind of a ****ty way to compare quality of life in a city. Philly's crime is heavily concentrated in areas of poverty on the north and west sides. The sh-t going down on the far north side isn't really affecting your life among the brownstones in Washington Square west or Bella Vista.

To be honest, crime rates are a stupid way to compare cities in general. I hear people (mostly Rahm Emanuel apologists) talk about how discussions about Chicago's crime problem are overblown because "Chicago's crime rate is way less than Detroit." On the numbers, this is accurate, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Detroit is basically what happens when you slice Chicago off at Grand Avenue and count everything north of that line as separate suburbs. Detroit doesn't have the large areas of high-density wealth that Chicago does to depress the per-capita crime rates. That doesn't mean that Chicago's homicide rate isn't a serious, poorly handled problem. Something like 4 of the top 6 zip codes for per-capita violent crime are in the city.

end threadjack .

Any city where there is a large concentration of poverty will have a lot of crime, Detroit does not have any areas with large concentrations of wealth, so its mostly known around the country for its crime. Philadelphia had 6 times the murders that Boston had last year, Boston is known as a "wealthy" city but that being said there are many sections that are not rich, there are poor and working class neighborhoods in Boston. New York has been another city that has garnered a lot of press attention for its alleged reductions in crime but if you take away midtown Manhattan and some hipster neighborhoods, New York is a pretty bleak city, the same with Los Angeles.

 

[jl lin]

When I lived in Philly I think Center City got about 3 inches of snow in two years the first two years I was there. The second two, we had like 5 MAJOR noreasterns nearly shut down the city, but yeah, the climate was way more temperate than the Midwest.

I've also now lived on both sides of the Great Lakes. I'm still not sure which I prefer: the sunny but below zero winters in Wisconsin or the never see the sun but constantly in the 20s winters of southern Ontario.

The endless days w/o sun would be the worst for me.

 

[Seth Joo]

The endless days w/o sun would be the worst for me.

Then you should probably apply to schools in warm states, CA, AZ, Texas, Florida, etc.

 

[jl lin]

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45jggj/detroit-6/

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/top-lists/highest-murder-rate-cities/


Neither Boston nor Philly made the list. But take your chances walking through Pudding Stone Park, and let me know how safe you feel. Boston area has its own good share of gangs, violence, people getting hit in the crossfire. Camden, NJ of course, did make #2--no surprise there--just have to stay close to the Rutgers Campus police I suppose. Trenton and Newark, NJ-- a general mess in terms of gangs and violence. Chester, PA, and Wilmington, DE are troublesome too. St Louis beat out Detroit for violent crime rate.

It's tough to avoid the reality of violence and one can't get complacent; b/c it's pretty much ubiquitous--and that is the hard reality. People want a false sense of security, and there are places that are clearly better places to live. But in today's world, on the highway,in the mall, or in a general store in No Wherefield violent crime can and will strike. It's wise to be careful anywhere you go, period.

The countdown for the Top 30 Murder Capitals of America:

Rank City
30 Baton Rouge, LA
29 Youngstown, OH
28 San Bernardino, CA
27 Oakland, CA
26 Barberton, OH
25 Poughkeepsie, NY
24 Cincinnati, OH
23 Petersburg, VA
22 Wilmington, DE
21 York, PA
20 East Palo Alto, CA
19 Jackson, MS
18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
17 Birmingham, AL
16 East Point, GA
15 East Chicago, IN
14 Compton, CA
13 Baltimore, MD
12 St. Louis, MO
11 Harvey, IL
10 Newark, NJ
9 New Orleans, LA
8 Trenton, NJ
7 Detroit, MI
6 Flint, MI
5 Saginaw, MI
4 Chester, PA
3 Gary, IN
2 Camden, NJ
1 East St. Louis, IL

 

[Seth Joo]

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45jggj/detroit-6/

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/top-lists/highest-murder-rate-cities/


Neither Boston nor Philly made the list. But take your chances walking through Pudding Stone Park, and let me know how safe you feel. Boston area has its own good share of gangs, violence, people getting hit in the crossfire. Camden, NJ of course, did make #2--no surprise there--just have to stay close to the Rutgers Campus police I suppose. Trenton and Newark, NJ-- a general mess in terms of gangs and violence. Chester, PA, and Wilmington, DE are troublesome too. St Louis beat out Detroit for violent crime rate.

It's tough to avoid the reality of violence and one can't get complacent; b/c it's pretty much ubiquitous--and that is the hard reality. People want a false sense of security, and there are places that are clearly better places to live. But in today's world, on the highway,in the mall, or in a general store in No Wherefield violent crime can and will strike. It's wise to be careful anywhere you go, period.

The countdown for the Top 30 Murder Capitals of America:

Rank City
30 Baton Rouge, LA
29 Youngstown, OH
28 San Bernardino, CA
27 Oakland, CA
26 Barberton, OH
25 Poughkeepsie, NY
24 Cincinnati, OH
23 Petersburg, VA
22 Wilmington, DE
21 York, PA
20 East Palo Alto, CA
19 Jackson, MS
18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
17 Birmingham, AL
16 East Point, GA
15 East Chicago, IN
14 Compton, CA
13 Baltimore, MD
12 St. Louis, MO
11 Harvey, IL
10 Newark, NJ
9 New Orleans, LA
8 Trenton, NJ
7 Detroit, MI
6 Flint, MI
5 Saginaw, MI
4 Chester, PA
3 Gary, IN
2 Camden, NJ
1 East St. Louis, IL

The US in general has higher rates of violent crime compared to most industrialized countries and yes there are bad parts of Boston like any major city. America's murder rate is four times that of Canada.

 

[jl lin]

Then you should probably apply to schools in warm states, CA, AZ, Texas, Florida, etc.

Yes, as much as I find the cold tiresome, I'd rather deal with it with sun than without sun. Those endless months of gray--that's like death to me. LOL
You can stand most things for a while I suppose, especially if you are keeping busy with school and work.

I would have a tough time living at the 64th parallel--such as parts of Alaska above the Arctic Circle, where, by the time December 21st occurs (winter solstice), the sun doesn't rise above the horizon at all. My God. The sun disappears in November and does not come back until January!

The 34th seems nice.

 

[jl lin]

The US in general has higher rates of violent crime compared to most industrialized countries and yes there are bad parts of Boston like any major city. America's murder rate is four times that of Canada.

Yes, but this:

Demographics

Population2

Canada: 33,910,000

USA: 313,232,000

USA has 9.2 times more people.

 

[Seth Joo]

Yes, but this:

Demographics

Population2

Canada: 33,910,000

USA: 313,232,000

USA has 9.2 times more people.

I said "rate" not total number of murders, when adjusted for population, the rate of murders in Canada is 1/4th that of the United States, other wealthy countries are similar.

The US has a murder rate that is almost 16 times that of Japan.

Even then if I tallied all the nations of Western Europe and compared the numbers of murders in the European Union vs the USA, the USA would have far more people dying of murder.

A friend of mine studied Medicine in Ireland but came back to the USA to do a Pathology residency, he said there was no work in Ireland for Forensic Pathologists because murder is not so common over there.

 

[WingedOx]

I said "rate" not total number of murders, when adjusted for population, the rate of murders in Canada is 1/4th that of the United States, other wealthy countries are similar.

The US has a murder rate that is almost 16 times that of Japan.

Even then if I tallied all the nations of Western Europe and compared the numbers of murders in the European Union vs the USA, the USA would have far more people dying of murder.

A friend of mine studied Medicine in Ireland but came back to the USA to do a Pathology residency, he said there was no work in Ireland for Forensic Pathologists because murder is not so common over there.

I had an interesting conversation at one of my running clubs last summer. We were talking about training despite busy work schedules.

him: "Yeah, it's been hard for me because I only get one day off in seven right now. It's our busy season."
me: "so what do you do for a living?"
him: "I'm a forensic pathologist"
me: [understanding immediately] "ah, yes"

I also read another statistic this summer (I believe in one of The Economist's related blogs), that even if the US were to release everyone who was incarcerated for anything that wasn't rape or murder, the US would still have a higher per-capita incarceration rate than Germany.

 

[Seth Joo]

I had an interesting conversation at one of my running clubs last summer. We were talking about training despite busy work schedules.

him: "Yeah, it's been hard for me because I only get one day off in seven right now. It's our busy season."
me: "so what do you do for a living?"
him: "I'm a forensic pathologist"
me: [understanding immediately] "ah, yes"

I also read another statistic this summer (I believe in one of The Economist's related blogs), that even if the US were to release everyone who was incarcerated for anything that wasn't rape or murder, the US would still have a higher per-capita incarceration rate than Germany.

The US has a higher incarceration rate than countries like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, North Korea, China, and Russia. In fact the US has the highest incarceration rate on Earth, no country imprisons more people than the United States.

 

[WingedOx]

The US has a higher incarceration rate than countries like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, North Korea, China, and Russia. In fact the US has the highest incarceration rate on Earth, no country imprisons more people than the United States.

re-read what I posted there.

 

[WingedOx]

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45jggj/detroit-6/

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/top-lists/highest-murder-rate-cities/


Neither Boston nor Philly made the list. But take your chances walking through Pudding Stone Park, and let me know how safe you feel. Boston area has its own good share of gangs, violence, people getting hit in the crossfire. Camden, NJ of course, did make #2--no surprise there--just have to stay close to the Rutgers Campus police I suppose. Trenton and Newark, NJ-- a general mess in terms of gangs and violence. Chester, PA, and Wilmington, DE are troublesome too. St Louis beat out Detroit for violent crime rate.

It's tough to avoid the reality of violence and one can't get complacent; b/c it's pretty much ubiquitous--and that is the hard reality. People want a false sense of security, and there are places that are clearly better places to live. But in today's world, on the highway,in the mall, or in a general store in No Wherefield violent crime can and will strike. It's wise to be careful anywhere you go, period.

The countdown for the Top 30 Murder Capitals of America:

Rank City
30 Baton Rouge, LA
29 Youngstown, OH
28 San Bernardino, CA
27 Oakland, CA
26 Barberton, OH
25 Poughkeepsie, NY
24 Cincinnati, OH
23 Petersburg, VA
22 Wilmington, DE
21 York, PA
20 East Palo Alto, CA
19 Jackson, MS
18 Wilkes-Barre, PA
17 Birmingham, AL
16 East Point, GA
15 East Chicago, IN
14 Compton, CA
13 Baltimore, MD
12 St. Louis, MO
11 Harvey, IL
10 Newark, NJ
9 New Orleans, LA
8 Trenton, NJ
7 Detroit, MI
6 Flint, MI
5 Saginaw, MI
4 Chester, PA
3 Gary, IN
2 Camden, NJ
1 East St. Louis, IL

Yes, but as I posted above, city limits are by their very nature arbitrary, making these lists kind of useless. They don't tell you anything about the safety or lack there of of any of these places.

 

[Seth Joo]

re-read what I posted there.

I understood what you were saying, the US also imprisons a good number of people for non violent offenses.

 

[WingedOx]

I understood what you were saying, the US also imprisons a good number of people for non violent offenses.

no, my point was that we imprison a lot of VIOLENT people.

 

[Doudline]

no, my point was that we imprison a lot of VIOLENT people.

Or that we breed a lot of violent people.

 

[WingedOx]

that too

 

[Seth Joo]

no, my point was that we imprison a lot of VIOLENT people.

We also imprison a lot of non violent people as well.

 

[Pusheen]

Man, threads like this remind me why I have to take breaks from SDN when life gets stressful. The neuroticism is almost too much to handle sometimes

Like other people have said though, I don't understand how other people navigate this process without SDN. Last week I asked a pre-med girl in my class how her apps were going and she responded that she was still editing her personal statement

 

[jl lin]

Population growth and density affects rate--even such that as reproduction begins to falter, it still takes some time for the effects to be minimized.

I can't think of one place in the world that is so perfectly safe, that people shouldn't be aware and on alert. That's when people get in trouble--when they let their guards down and have a false sense of security. You can't be crazy paranoid, but you can't be blasé either.

The relationship between crime rate and population can and has shown statistical significance--although certainly factors, such as group jurisdiction is also a factor.
The latter may also have significance when considering the impact of gang influences. Dominant group violence does not appear to be as limiting or random as individual acts of violence. Another unquestionable and associated factor is drug abuse, addiction, and illicit sales, which are also connected with gang dominance and violence.



BTW Seth, Japan's reproduction/population is on the serious down swing.

 

[jl lin]

Man, threads like this remind me why I have to take breaks from SDN when life gets stressful. The neuroticism is almost too much to handle sometimes

Like other people have said though, I don't understand how other people navigate this process without SDN. Last week I asked a pre-med girl in my class how her apps were going and she responded that she was still editing her personal statement

hahaha. Is it neuroticism or is it just natural, intellectual curiosity among those that would tend to be affected by or given to such inquiries?

 

[jl lin]

Yes, but as I posted above, city limits are by their very nature arbitrary, making these lists kind of useless. They don't tell you anything about the safety or lack there of of any of these places.

Perhaps refer to the study I posted below.

 

[jl lin]

Population growth and density affect rate--even such that as reproduction begins to falter, it still takes some time for the effects to be minimized.

I can't think of one place in the world that is so perfectly safe, where people shouldn't be aware and on the alert. (Many nice college campuses are fine examples.) That's when people get in trouble--when they let their guards down and have a false sense of security. You can't be crazy paranoid, but you can't be blasé either.



The relationship between crime rate and population can and has shown statistical significance--although certainly factors, such as group jurisdiction, is also a factor.
The latter may also have significance when considering the impact of gang influences. Dominant group violence does not appear to be as limiting or random as individual acts of violence. Another unquestionable and associated factor is drug abuse, addiction, and illicit drug sales, which are also connected with gang dominance and violence.

 

[Seth Joo]

Population growth and density affects rate--even such that as reproduction begins to falter, it still takes some time for the effects to be minimized.

I can't think of one place in the world that is so perfectly safe, that people shouldn't be aware and on alert. That's when people get in trouble--when they let their guards down and have a false sense of security. You can't be crazy paranoid, but you can't be blasé either.

The relationship between crime rate and population can and has shown statistical significance--although certainly factors, such as group jurisdiction is also a factor.
The latter may also have significance when considering the impact of gang influences. Dominant group violence does not appear to be as limiting or random as individual acts of violence. Another unquestionable and associated factor is drug abuse, addiction, and illicit sales, which are also connected with gang dominance and violence.



BTW Seth, Japan's reproduction/population is on the serious down swing.

I already know that, China will go through the same thing in about 50 years, that being said one is safer in a city like Tokyo than they are in Los Angeles or Chicago. And its true no place is perfectly safe but there are places where the odds are against you and those where its in your favor to live a safe and peaceful existence. I recall a tourist in Tokyo remarked how women do not latch onto their purses like they do in cites like Chicago, its mostly because criminality is very low in Japan.

 

[jl lin]

I already know that, China will go through the same thing in about 50 years, that being said one is safer in a city like Tokyo than they are in Los Angeles or Chicago. And its true no place is perfectly safe but there are places where the odds are against you and those where its in your favor to live a safe and peaceful existence. I recall a tourist in Tokyo remarked how women do not latch onto their purses like they do in cites like Chicago, its mostly because criminality is very low in Japan.

LOL Hopefully some criminals in Japan haven't read your reply and are readying themselves to make a change. Personally, I like the idea of having the sharp edges of my keys ready at all times. You can guess that I frequent the inner cities.