Will Organic be easier summer intensive at the local state college vs fall/spring at an Ivy?

[bunkina]

Background info: I'm hoping to go straight on to med school from undergrad, which means applying at the end of my junior year of college. I'm taking second semester inorganic chem and first semester Bio currently as a 2nd semester freshman. Got a 4.0 first semester, at a top Ivy. I'm a consistent and hard-working student, tend to approach the work methodically, spending many hours on problem sets, working alone and with classmates, and going to office hours. My intended major is not in a science, but is related to my planned specialty in medicine. At the moment, I don't know if I will take more science courses than those required for med school - I enjoy them, might take genetics, neuroscience.

I'm thinking that the only way that I can finish my premed sciences in time to apply to go straight on to med school is to take organic in the summer, at the local state college, taking both semesters of orgo plus their accompanying labs over a ten week summer session. This will also free up room in my schedule to take classes at my Ivy that I want to take. My parent did most of their undergrad at an Ivy, but did a year at the top CUNY 40 years ago. They said that there was absolutely no comparison - that the classes at the CUNY were FAR easier than at the Ivy.

I self-studied for the ACT, and was able to get a 36 with about 40-60 hrs of self-prep. My parent says that this is likely to predict a high MCAT score, since one preps for the MCAT.

First of all, is Organic likely to be easier at the local state college (not flagship state U) than at the Ivy? Second, if all my other classes are at the Ivy, and if my grades at the Ivy are high, will top med schools look askance at my having taken Orgo over the summer at my local state college? I'm figuring that if I throw my all at it (I won't have any other responsibilities), that I could get A's there. Sure, it's going to be a miserable ten weeks, but it seems to me that I could do it. I'm not worried about it not staying in my brain - I know that I will have to relearn it during MCAT prep, but I don't have a problem with that.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[lumya]

It's hard to say if it would be easier at your state school since you're taking it in a shortened time frame and you might end up with larger class sizes and fewer resources/access to professors/TAs. As far as it being looked down upon, if it's an established university and you keep your grades up at your school normally it shouldn't be an issue. We had some people at my college take their difficult science courses at a local community college and that put up some red flags. Is ochem going to be your highest level science class or will you take at least biochemistry?

 

[jhmmd]

First of all, is Organic likely to be easier at the local state college (not flagship state U) than at the Ivy? Second, if all my other classes are at the Ivy, and if my grades at the Ivy are high, will top med schools look askance at my having taken Orgo over the summer at my local state college? I'm figuring that if I throw my all at it (I won't have any other responsibilities), that I could get A's there. Sure, it's going to be a miserable ten weeks, but it seems to me that I could do it. I'm not worried about it not staying in my brain - I know that I will have to relearn it during MCAT prep, but I don't have a problem with that.

1) It depends on the caliber of your classmates at each school
2) You will need a good reason for doing this (right now, you don't have one)
3) Cramming is a bad study technique. Ochem over the summer is going to be difficult because you have less time to learn the information. You DON'T want to have to re-learn ochem for the MCAT; this is a course in and of itself. MCAT prep should not involve taking the pre-reqs all over again--it should be review.
Hope that helps

 

[doomer_md]

I self-studied for the ACT, and was able to get a 36 with about 40-60 hrs of self-prep. My parent says that this is likely to predict a high MCAT score, since one preps for the MCAT.

First of all, is Organic likely to be easier at the local state college (not flagship state U) than at the Ivy? Second, if all my other classes are at the Ivy, and if my grades at the Ivy are high, will top med schools look askance at my having taken Orgo over the summer at my local state college?

I thought you Ivy Leaguers were supposed to be smart?

 

[deleted1114112]

I would just contact people at the school who've taken the class. My high school friends took orgo at the same time as me at a stat uni and it was not curved at all and had a normal distribution with like a median C+ or something obscene with a boatload of people in the class. The uni I went to still had a relatively large class but I think it was curved up to a B+ median. It just depends on the department/prof.

 

[jhmmd]

I would just contact people at the school who've taken the class. My high school friends took orgo at the same time as me at our state flagship and it was not curved at all and had a normal distribution with like a median C+ or something obscene with a boatload of people in the class. The uni I went to still had a relatively large class but I think it was curved up to a B+ median. It just depends on the department/prof.

Wow, lucky u. The average curve is ~75%. I remember physics 1 at my uni was curved at 50%. Different strokes...

 

[jhmmd]

To be clear, curving usually means that the highest score is counted as 100%. There are many other ways to curve a class, however.

 

[deleted1114112]

To be clear, curving usually means that the highest score is counted as 100%. There are many other ways to curve a class, however.

Wow, lucky u. The average curve is ~75%. I remember physics 1 at my uni was curved at 50%. Different strokes.

Yeah I'm pretty sure most top schools just grade inflate to the moon. Orgo 1 I got a B+ with median or below average grades on all my exam and high homework/lab grades lmao.

 

[jhmmd]

Yeah I'm pretty sure most top schools just grade inflate to the moon. Orgo 1 I got a B+ with median or below average grades on all my exam and high homework/lab grades lmao.

Damn

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Background info: I'm hoping to go straight on to med school from undergrad, which means applying at the end of my junior year of college. I'm taking second semester inorganic chem and first semester Bio currently as a 2nd semester freshman. Got a 4.0 first semester, at a top Ivy. I'm a consistent and hard-working student, tend to approach the work methodically, spending many hours on problem sets, working alone and with classmates, and going to office hours. My intended major is not in a science, but is related to my planned specialty in medicine. At the moment, I don't know if I will take more science courses than those required for med school - I enjoy them, might take genetics, neuroscience.

I'm thinking that the only way that I can finish my premed sciences in time to apply to go straight on to med school is to take organic in the summer, at the local state college, taking both semesters of orgo plus their accompanying labs over a ten week summer session. This will also free up room in my schedule to take classes at my Ivy that I want to take. My parent did most of their undergrad at an Ivy, but did a year at the top CUNY 40 years ago. They said that there was absolutely no comparison - that the classes at the CUNY were FAR easier than at the Ivy.

I self-studied for the ACT, and was able to get a 36 with about 40-60 hrs of self-prep. My parent says that this is likely to predict a high MCAT score, since one preps for the MCAT.

First of all, is Organic likely to be easier at the local state college (not flagship state U) than at the Ivy? Second, if all my other classes are at the Ivy, and if my grades at the Ivy are high, will top med schools look askance at my having taken Orgo over the summer at my local state college? I'm figuring that if I throw my all at it (I won't have any other responsibilities), that I could get A's there. Sure, it's going to be a miserable ten weeks, but it seems to me that I could do it. I'm not worried about it not staying in my brain - I know that I will have to relearn it during MCAT prep, but I don't have a problem with that.

One of the first things I look for is if the applicant took hard courses in summer school. Its a red flag unless GPA, Mcat and science GPA are good. Sometimes getting into a course is difficult or the student has more than 1.major.

 

[jhmmd]

One of the first things I look for is if the applicant took hard courses in summer school. Its a red flag unless GPA, Mcat and science GPA are good. Sometimes getting into a course is difficult or the student has more than 1.major.

I had trouble w/that LOL. Long waitlist to get into some of the pre-med courses at Wayne State. But this was years ago. Im sure they have done away with that.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I had trouble w/that LOL. Long waitlist to get into some of the pre-med courses at Wayne State. But this was years ago. Im sure they have done away with that.

I have heard a uni in FL referred to as the Roach Motel. You can get in... but never get out, ...due to limited seats in some classes required for graduation.

 

[jhmmd]

I have heard a uni in FL referred to as the Roach Motel. You can get in... but never get out, ...due to limited seats in some classes required for graduation.

The roaches graduate?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

The roaches graduate?

After 5 or 6 years!

 

[Goro]

After 5 or 6 years!

I've heard of this! Sometime the student stay so long they get tenure!

 

[jhmmd]

I've heard of this! Sometime the student stay so long they get tenure!

Roach tenure is better than beetle tenure, I've heard.

 

[LizzyM]

It will be looked upon negatively.

Also consider the possibility that the instructor in summer school will not be the best and could be an absolute nightmare from which there is no escape.

 

[Browns99]

Background info: I'm hoping to go straight on to med school from undergrad, which means applying at the end of my junior year of college. I'm taking second semester inorganic chem and first semester Bio currently as a 2nd semester freshman. Got a 4.0 first semester, at a top Ivy. I'm a consistent and hard-working student, tend to approach the work methodically, spending many hours on problem sets, working alone and with classmates, and going to office hours. My intended major is not in a science, but is related to my planned specialty in medicine. At the moment, I don't know if I will take more science courses than those required for med school - I enjoy them, might take genetics, neuroscience.

I'm thinking that the only way that I can finish my premed sciences in time to apply to go straight on to med school is to take organic in the summer, at the local state college, taking both semesters of orgo plus their accompanying labs over a ten week summer session. This will also free up room in my schedule to take classes at my Ivy that I want to take. My parent did most of their undergrad at an Ivy, but did a year at the top CUNY 40 years ago. They said that there was absolutely no comparison - that the classes at the CUNY were FAR easier than at the Ivy.

I self-studied for the ACT, and was able to get a 36 with about 40-60 hrs of self-prep. My parent says that this is likely to predict a high MCAT score, since one preps for the MCAT.

First of all, is Organic likely to be easier at the local state college (not flagship state U) than at the Ivy? Second, if all my other classes are at the Ivy, and if my grades at the Ivy are high, will top med schools look askance at my having taken Orgo over the summer at my local state college? I'm figuring that if I throw my all at it (I won't have any other responsibilities), that I could get A's there. Sure, it's going to be a miserable ten weeks, but it seems to me that I could do it. I'm not worried about it not staying in my brain - I know that I will have to relearn it during MCAT prep, but I don't have a problem with that.

You like that word..."ivy"...I think you mentioned it 7 times, LOL.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Did the academic dean at your university approve you taking classes at the state college? You may want that to get credit for your degree. You can't just take classes when and wherever you want.

 

[Ganon]

...Maybe I'm the only one, but I did my Organic 1 as a summer intensive, and honestly I probably wouldn't have gotten the A if I hadn't. Being able to focus on just that one class was super, super helpful, and while it was a rough 8 weeks the smaller class size helped me to get more face time with the professor which ended up equating to more intensive teaching/borderline tutoring.

I didn't change schools to take it, but I 100% chose to take it during the summer. The school had very set rules on what could be transferred in/timing etc. and it was very simple to make sure I followed the rules despite being a postbac guy transferring tons of credits from lesser places.

It may have screened me out of Ivy league medical schools, but I didn't apply to those anyway... YMMV

The question to ask is what's worse: Getting a B or C in organic, or having transferred it in from elsewhere as a summer intensive?

 

[LizzyM]

...Maybe I'm the only one, but I did my Organic 1 as a summer intensive, and honestly I probably wouldn't have gotten the A if I hadn't. Being able to focus on just that one class was super, super helpful, and while it was a rough 8 weeks the smaller class size helped me to get more face time with the professor which ended up equating to more intensive teaching/borderline tutoring.

I didn't change schools to take it, but I 100% chose to take it during the summer. The school had very set rules on what could be transferred in/timing etc. and it was very simple to make sure I followed the rules despite being a postbac guy transferring tons of credits from lesser places.

It may have screened me out of Ivy league medical schools, but I didn't apply to those anyway... YMMV

The question to ask is what's worse: Getting a B or C in organic, or having transferred it in from elsewhere as a summer intensive?

There is a big difference between taking organic over the summer at your usual school vs going to a "lesser" school over the summer for a required course, particularly one that has a reputation as a "weed-out".

Also, being a post-bac is different than being a rising senior applying to med school.

Nice story but not really relevant to the OP's circumstances.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I started in the summer. I personally found it very difficult and dropped it in order to take during the year instead. I found the videos on Khan Academy to be invaluable.

 

[SkiTheGhee0726]

I took O Chem 2 for a second time (dropped it the first time) as a summer intensive. I started the course 2 weeks after ACL reconstruction which was ultimately a good thing. I was the only person in the class who got an A which I attribute to being essentially immobile and unable to do anything other than study because that’s basically what you had to do to be successful in the condensed time frame. If you have any other obligations this summer or things you want to do over break, don’t do it.

 

[TrailsMixed]

LOL @everyone who is saying you will have to relearn OChem for the MCAT. The OChem on there is a joke. its the highlights of Ochem and super easy to learn. I really doubt med schools will care where you took Ochem. I think they are more likley to look at your overall grades and the rest of your app like research/activities/connections.

I took Ochem in the summer myself and it was challenging. Definitely a lot of work but doable if your life is dedicated to it

 

[snooper]

Talk to your pre-med advisor.

 

[LizzyM]

LOL @everyone who is saying you will have to relearn OChem for the MCAT. The OChem on there is a joke. its the highlights of Ochem and super easy to learn. I really doubt med schools will care where you took Ochem. I think they are more likley to look at your overall grades and the rest of your app like research/activities/connections.

I took Ochem in the summer myself and it was challenging. Definitely a lot of work but doable if your life is dedicated to it

Welcome to SDN. Your opinion contradicts several medical school admission committee members who have already commented on this thread but you are entitled to your opinion even if it contradicts that of people who have been in the admissions business since you were in preschool.

 

[Ganon]

Welcome to SDN. Your opinion contradicts several medical school admission committee members who have already commented on this thread but you are entitled to your opinion even if it contradicts that of people who have been in the admissions business since you were in preschool.

How would a C look compared to transferring the credits in? Which is worse?

 

[Med201821]

How would a C look compared to transferring the credits in? Which is worse?

Disregard their post.

ADCOMS who have SDN accounts with post counts in the five digits are likely not representative of your average ADCOM member. A certain sampling bias perhaps.

Especially in the context of an alleged Ivy league student who has a stellar academic record. If this person also has a strong application then I could hardly imagine an organic chemistry course taken at another four year university impeding her ability to matriculate in medical school the summer/fall after completing her undergraduate.

 

[Ganon]

Disregard their post.

ADCOMS who have SDN accounts with post counts in the five digits are likely not representative of your average ADCOM member. A certain sampling bias perhaps.

Especially in the context of an alleged Ivy league student who has a stellar academic record. If this person also has a strong application then I could hardly imagine an organic chemistry course taken at another four year university impeding her ability to matriculate in medical school the summer/fall after completing her undergraduate.

I take your point, but I asked because these threads seem to always just assume things about the students, like that if they take Ochem at an Ivy they are automatically going to get an A.

For me, I would have gotten a B in Ochem1 if I didn't have the summer intensive focus. What if that was a C? Would I have been better off transferring in an A from a CC?

Adcoms love to give advice that applies to the top 1% of applicants, but I typically look for answers that matter to the vast, vast majority of people instead. You know... The ones who thing getting into med school is tough. The ones who might actually NEED advice.

 

[thetoothguy]

So I took orgo (I'm from the east coast) over the summer at a private university (Monmouth University - so not top tier but probably in line with many state schools) and it was pretty challenging. I did get A's in both the lecture and the lab, ended up tutoring for the course and while I took the DAT instead of the MCAT, I did score a little over the 90th percentile in that category. I ended up interviewing at Columbia dental, but my overall score on the exam (97th percentile, at least when I took it) was what got me wait-listed. It was considered below-average for their average interviewee. They never asked where I went to school and I actually got a C in calc-based physics I from this school, then took calc-based physics 2 at a community college and got like a B - I did this solely because I was paying for my own education at that time and it was just cheaper at a community college. That also never came up, even though it was clearly on my transcripts.

Moral of the story - take the coursework where it's cheaper but not where you think it's easier because whether it's easy or not won't really help for standardized exams that only care about the knowledge. The exam will still test you on the knowledge and, frankly, cutting corners now on how you acquire that knowledge will just hurt you in the end. Incredible instruction during the course helped invaluably in prepping for the exam I had to take. Also, this is a very different beast of a course. It's all about critical thinking and problem-solving, rather than regurgitating formulas or facts, so you can't really assess how well you will do (if you like that approach to courses, then you'll love this class!). I struggled much more to get A's in gen chem than I did in orgo. In fact, I enjoyed orgo and found it to be the funnest course I took in undergrad. And taking this over the summer was tough, but obviously doable. Just know you will not have a summer. At all.

Not trying to be aggressive with this post, but you seem like a really bright and hardworking person, and given your educational background and ability to get admitted to such a selective university, I don't doubt you'd do well wherever you take it. Just make sure it's for the right reasons, so you can achieve this goal that I'm sure you can make a reality! Best of luck!

 

[LizzyM]

If the OP does well in O-Chem in a community college over the summer, the OP will still be compared to applicants with the same GPA or better with all coursework taken at that Ivy. The applicant will also be judged to be someone who takes an easier path rather than the challenge of O-Chem at the Ivy.

 

[jhmmd]

So I took orgo (I'm from the east coast) over the summer at a private university (Monmouth University - so not top tier but probably in line with many state schools) and it was pretty challenging. I did get A's in both the lecture and the lab, ended up tutoring for the course and while I took the DAT instead of the MCAT, I did score a little over the 90th percentile in that category. I ended up interviewing at Columbia dental, but my overall score on the exam (97th percentile, at least when I took it) was what got me wait-listed. It was considered below-average for their average interviewee. They never asked where I went to school and I actually got a C in calc-based physics I from this school, then took calc-based physics 2 at a community college and got like a B - I did this solely because I was paying for my own education at that time and it was just cheaper at a community college. That also never came up, even though it was clearly on my transcripts.

Moral of the story - take the coursework where it's cheaper but not where you think it's easier because whether it's easy or not won't really help for standardized exams that only care about the knowledge. The exam will still test you on the knowledge and, frankly, cutting corners now on how you acquire that knowledge will just hurt you in the end. Incredible instruction during the course helped invaluably in prepping for the exam I had to take. Also, this is a very different beast of a course. It's all about critical thinking and problem-solving, rather than regurgitating formulas or facts, so you can't really assess how well you will do (if you like that approach to courses, then you'll love this class!). I struggled much more to get A's in gen chem than I did in orgo. In fact, I enjoyed orgo and found it to be the funnest course I took in undergrad. And taking this over the summer was tough, but obviously doable. Just know you will not have a summer. At all.

Not trying to be aggressive with this post, but you seem like a really bright and hardworking person, and given your educational background and ability to get admitted to such a selective university, I don't doubt you'd do well wherever you take it. Just make sure it's for the right reasons, so you can achieve this goal that I'm sure you can make a reality! Best of luck!

Great post. I agree with everything you said.

 

[DD214]

Organic chemistry is by far the most important course in pre-med, nay all of medical education. This is why such wise and learned admission directors harp so much on this crucial data point

All practicing physicians use it day-in, day out and would be completely helpless without the knowledge base they worked so hard to learn and retain for life in both semesters

The constant chatter of compound naming, electron pushing and nitrogen chemistry never stops in outpatient offices, hospital wards, ERs and ORs nationwide

 

[Ganon]

If the OP does well in O-Chem in a community college over the summer, the OP will still be compared to applicants with the same GPA or better with all coursework taken at that Ivy. The applicant will also be judged to be someone who takes an easier path rather than the challenge of O-Chem at the Ivy.

Certainly, but the question is which would be worse in the situation I described.

The zero-sum game assumed in so many of these threads misses the nuance that >90% of student physicians experience. I'm gonna' go ahead and unfollow this thread, as it seems nothing of value is going to be elucidated for OP beyond what's been said.

Cheers and good luck OP!

 

[DeepEstablishment959]

Background info: I'm hoping to go straight on to med school from undergrad, which means applying at the end of my junior year of college. I'm taking second semester inorganic chem and first semester Bio currently as a 2nd semester freshman. Got a 4.0 first semester, at a top Ivy. I'm a consistent and hard-working student, tend to approach the work methodically, spending many hours on problem sets, working alone and with classmates, and going to office hours. My intended major is not in a science, but is related to my planned specialty in medicine. At the moment, I don't know if I will take more science courses than those required for med school - I enjoy them, might take genetics, neuroscience.

I'm thinking that the only way that I can finish my premed sciences in time to apply to go straight on to med school is to take organic in the summer, at the local state college, taking both semesters of orgo plus their accompanying labs over a ten week summer session. This will also free up room in my schedule to take classes at my Ivy that I want to take. My parent did most of their undergrad at an Ivy, but did a year at the top CUNY 40 years ago. They said that there was absolutely no comparison - that the classes at the CUNY were FAR easier than at the Ivy.

I self-studied for the ACT, and was able to get a 36 with about 40-60 hrs of self-prep. My parent says that this is likely to predict a high MCAT score, since one preps for the MCAT.

First of all, is Organic likely to be easier at the local state college (not flagship state U) than at the Ivy? Second, if all my other classes are at the Ivy, and if my grades at the Ivy are high, will top med schools look askance at my having taken Orgo over the summer at my local state college? I'm figuring that if I throw my all at it (I won't have any other responsibilities), that I could get A's there. Sure, it's going to be a miserable ten weeks, but it seems to me that I could do it. I'm not worried about it not staying in my brain - I know that I will have to relearn it during MCAT prep, but I don't have a problem with that.

Since you are a hard working student, you should be fine taking Orgo at your Ivy instead of at a local university. Cramming them in just the summer is not a good idea, and you might not achieve the targeted gpa. Moreover, you need the summers for research, clinical experience, volunteering, etc. If you plan properly, you will be able to finish all your premed courses on time to apply for Med school end of Jr. year. Do not underestimate MCAT. Even though the ACT is a good measure, MCAT is a bit different. It’s more subject based. You would need solid 6 months to prepare for it. Since you are still a freshman, and planing ahead, you will do well. All the best of luck!! You can also consider applying to early assurance Med programs like Icahn at Mt. Sanai at the beginning of your sophomore year. They will consider your ACT, and you will not require to take MCAT. It’s a top 20 Med Program, and if you are accepted, your pre Med undergrad will be less stressful. Best wishes to you!!

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Disregard their post.

ADCOMS who have SDN accounts with post counts in the five digits are likely not representative of your average ADCOM member. A certain sampling bias perhaps.

Especially in the context of an alleged Ivy league student who has a stellar academic record. If this person also has a strong application then I could hardly imagine an organic chemistry course taken at another four year university impeding her ability to matriculate in medical school the summer/fall after completing her undergraduate.

Adcoms on SDN don't socialize with each other. We socialize with Adcoms at our respective schools. I would imagine that most Adcoms at our school are in agreement on most issues with their colleagues. That's been my experience.

 

[Med201821]

I take your point, but I asked because these threads seem to always just assume things about the students, like that if they take Ochem at an Ivy they are automatically going to get an A.

For me, I would have gotten a B in Ochem1 if I didn't have the summer intensive focus. What if that was a C? Would I have been better off transferring in an A from a CC?

Adcoms love to give advice that applies to the top 1% of applicants, but I typically look for answers that matter to the vast, vast majority of people instead. You know... The ones who thing getting into med school is tough. The ones who might actually NEED advice.

I share your sentiments entirely.

Organic chemistry is by far the most important course in pre-med, nay all of medical education. This is why such wise and learned admission directors harp so much on this crucial data point

All practicing physicians use it day-in, day out and would be completely helpless without the knowledge base they worked so hard to learn and retain for life in both semesters

The constant chatter of compound naming, electron pushing and nitrogen chemistry never stops in outpatient offices, hospital wards, ERs and ORs nationwide

The only thing I recall from orgo is that in the presence of UV light and bromine a methylated benzene will become brominated. But I use it every single day. So it was not for naught.

Adcoms on SDN don't socialize with each other. We socialize with Adcoms at our respective schools. I would imagine that most Adcoms at our school are in agreement on most issues with their colleagues. That's been my experience.

Sure. I have never been on an ADCOM. But I have personally known hundreds of medical students. Have been a medical student. While the vast majority had stellar virtually unblemished records there were large minorities that had more than a few blemishes on their record.

What did the student ask?
1. Is orgo easier at the state college?

Probably not.

2. Will ADCOMs ask why she took orgo at state college but all their other classes were taken at their Ivy league school?

Possibly. Will it matter though? In the context of an otherwise stellar application. In my opinion any ADCOM worth their salt would look at the applicant holistically anyways. Really splitting hairs here. Granted I don't know what it takes to get into a top 10. Maybe someone at HMS or Hopkins might actually care about such things.

But there are 192 accredited medical schools in the USA. I am sure they will find one that doesn't care she took orgo at the state school.

 

[doomer_md]

I share your sentiments entirely.



The only thing I recall from orgo is that in the presence of UV light and bromine a methylated benzene will become brominated. But I use it every single day. So it was not for naught.



Sure. I have never been on an ADCOM. But I have personally known hundreds of medical students. Have been a medical student. While the vast majority had stellar virtually unblemished records there were large minorities that had more than a few blemishes on their record.

What did the student ask?
1. Is orgo easier at the state college?

Probably not.

2. Will ADCOMs ask why she took orgo at state college but all their other classes were taken at their Ivy league school?

Possibly. Will it matter though? In the context of an otherwise stellar application. In my opinion any ADCOM worth their salt would look at the applicant holistically anyways. Really splitting hairs here. Granted I don't know what it takes to get into a top 10. Maybe someone at HMS or Hopkins might actually care about such things.

But there are 192 accredited medical schools in the USA. I am sure they will find one that doesn't care she took orgo at the state school.

Sure but it’s embarrassing for someone that takes quite of bit of pride in their ACT score and the fact that they go to an Ivy try to swindle their way out of ochem.

 

[SweetBurger]

lmao it's not that deep in my opinion. Take ochem over the summer no one is going to analyze your application that intensely and be like "oh he/she/them is at an ivy league but took a semester of ochem at a state school". Ochem is tough, but totally doable in a summer. Also dont correlate ur ACT to ur future mcat i dont think there is really anything there other than ur prob good at taking test. I had a bad sat and a 90th% mcat so rlly anything can happen

 

[chssoccer7]

This was the most recent post on this topic I have found, so I wanted to ask my specific question here rather than reviving one of the ancient posts because it is somewhat relevant here. I am looking at taking Orgo 1 and 2 this summer, in order to take Biochem in the fall and the MCAT in the spring. I am only looking at doing this because I did 10.5 years in the Navy as a Nuclear Electronics Technician, and with all the credits I transferred in from using tuition assistance while in the military, I only have 4 semesters left. I could take them next fall and spring as traditional students would, but that would delay my MCAT by a year and I would end up with another gap year whilst applying. I would like to avoid this, as I turn 30 this year and will graduate undergrad at 32. My pre-military GPA of one semester back in 2010 was atrocious (1.7) because I acted like a child. I am on the cusp of completing my first year back at college with 17 credits each semester at a 4.0 GPA. I have every confidence that I will work as hard as required to get good grades over the summer. My question, however, is will this raise a red flag that I am trying to skate? The only reason I am looking at doing this is to be able to take the MCAT after i take Biochem, and without Orgo in the summer, I can't.

 

[allseasons]

Traditionally Organic Chem was the first course that admissions committee would take note of on an application. It is certainly part the the few that courses that actually specifically might come up in evaluation of a candidate. Until a decade or two ago it was the make or break course for a premed. Taking both a course in the summer and not at your home institution, especially if the home school is a rigorous ivy, raises a flag

Most premeds on here have commented that Biochem along with Organic are strongly represented on the MCAT.

Why is organic chemistry so stressed? Is it because biochem wasn't a requirement until recently, and orgo came the closest to that (and biochem is actually a pretty important course for medicine).

 

[LizzyM]

This was the most recent post on this topic I have found, so I wanted to ask my specific question here rather than reviving one of the ancient posts because it is somewhat relevant here. I am looking at taking Orgo 1 and 2 this summer, in order to take Biochem in the fall and the MCAT in the spring. I am only looking at doing this because I did 10.5 years in the Navy as a Nuclear Electronics Technician, and with all the credits I transferred in from using tuition assistance while in the military, I only have 4 semesters left. I could take them next fall and spring as traditional students would, but that would delay my MCAT by a year and I would end up with another gap year whilst applying. I would like to avoid this, as I turn 30 this year and will graduate undergrad at 32. My pre-military GPA of one semester back in 2010 was atrocious (1.7) because I acted like a child. I am on the cusp of completing my first year back at college with 17 credits each semester at a 4.0 GPA. I have every confidence that I will work as hard as required to get good grades over the summer. My question, however, is will this raise a red flag that I am trying to skate? The only reason I am looking at doing this is to be able to take the MCAT after i take Biochem, and without Orgo in the summer, I can't.

You are an exception to the rule. The "rule" is intended for traditional undergrads at top schools who take a weed out course such as o-chem at a school that has poorer reputation for rigor.

 

[chssoccer7]

You are an exception to the rule. The "rule" is intended for traditional undergrads at top schools who take a weed out course such as o-chem at a school that has poorer reputation for rigor.

Awesome, thank you for the response. I think I will sacrifice the summer to knock them out then!

 

[ilikecookie]

Bumping this thread even more because I find myself in a similar situation for physics. A physics course at my university is apparently much harder than any other premed course from what I've heard. It is also calculus based and my math ability really does not stack up to my bio or chem abilities. I know a bunch of AOs here have said a summer course at a "lesser" institution will be looked down on. But based on what I've said earlier, I will not be surprised if I get B or B- (just for context on this course's reputation, I have been and am pretty confident that I will continue to get As in all my other premed courses). What would be worse: a relatively bad grade at my home institution or an A at another institution?

 

[allseasons]

Bumping this thread even more because I find myself in a similar situation for physics. A physics course at my university is apparently much harder than any other premed course from what I've heard. It is also calculus based and my math ability really does not stack up to my bio or chem abilities. I know a bunch of AOs here have said a summer course at a "lesser" institution will be looked down on. But based on what I've said earlier, I will not be surprised if I get B or B- (just for context on this course's reputation, I have been and am pretty confident that I will continue to get As in all my other premed courses). What would be worse: a relatively bad grade at my home institution or an A at another institution?

I would say an A at any other institution beats a C at your own institution. If you’re talking about a B+ though, then stick with your place.

 

[ilikecookie]

you also do not need a calculus based physics at most medical schools

They're all calculus based unfortunately.

 

[jhmmd]

They're all calculus based unfortunately.

Where do you go to college?

 

[ilikecookie]

Where do you go to college?

A top 10 & non-ivy (e.g. UChicago, Duke, Northwestern). Why do you ask?

 

[jhmmd]

They're all calculus based unfortunately.

Without sounding like a broken record--most colleges give you the option of trig/algebra-based physics vs. calculus-based physics. That's why I'm asking.

 

[ilikecookie]

Without sounding like a broken record--most colleges give you the option of trig/algebra-based physics vs. calculus-based physics. That's why I'm asking.

I wish but unfortunately not. I guess it counteracts some other parts of our prehealth requirements being easier than usual.