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will the "better" school make you a better doctor?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Mr. H, Feb 25, 2002.

  1. Mr. H

    Mr. H 7+ Year Member

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    Dec 11, 2001
    Hey everyone, I've just been thinking, why the hell am I putting so much pressure on myself to get really good grades and get into a "top 20" school? Does it really make a difference where you go? Case in point, my father graduated from medical school overseas in an almost 3rd world country. He came to the states, did his residency in an ohio program and now he's the president of his dept., being possibly the best doctor is his field in my hometown. I have countless other friends who have graduated from "no name" school and seem to be very succesful. So really, somebody give me reasons for going to a top 20 school. I'm really getting sick of working hard in class, I just want to SLEEP, SLEep Sleep zzzzzzzzzzzzz
     
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  3. Trek

    Trek Grand Uranium Member 7+ Year Member

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    The Big House
    No. --Trek
     
  4. altaskier

    altaskier Altaholics Anonymous 92' 7+ Year Member

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    Where you are the happiest!
     
  5. dukeblue01

    dukeblue01 Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    Boston
    Only 'you' will make 'you' the better doctor. At any school. Lots of hard work.
     
  6. Tobtolip

    Tobtolip Member 7+ Year Member

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    Feb 5, 2002
    Hehe, man would I feel for you... I only get decent nights of sleep during the weekend also..

    Anyways, even if you do choose to go to a "no name" medical school, your still gonna have to work your butt off. Even the non "top-20's" have pretty high standards, and they all receive highly qualified and competitive applicants. Also, if the trends hold true, each successive year will only bring about more competitive applicants.
     
  7. Wednesday

    Wednesday Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    A "higher ranked" school will not make you a better doctor, I'm pretty sure you're right about that. However, to get into ANY US med school you still have to get good grades. And if you don't go to a US med school, you will have to work hard to get back to the US (studying for boards). You gotta work in this field, that's all there is to it.
     
  8. Mr. H

    Mr. H 7+ Year Member

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    Dec 11, 2001
    Well, it seems that to be a doctor you got to work you ass off, that much is obvious. So what are some advantages to top 20 schools? Why the hell should is spend 4 times more money to a nice school instead of say, UIC. I hate the idea of being in debt for 10 years. Oh, and by the way, the UW Badgers are bomb! Watch us win the big ten, HELLS YEAH!
    peace
     
  9. TXRI

    TXRI Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Apr 27, 2000
    There is a national standard for medical education so don't worry about what school you go to. Most all medical students in US schools take the same NBME (national board of medical examiners) shelf exams at the end of each class and rotation. In addition, all medical students take the USMLE. I agree with dukeblue01: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Only 'you' will make 'you' the better doctor. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
     
  10. BME02

    BME02 Member 7+ Year Member

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    Nov 4, 2001
    St. Louis, MO
    I don't necessarily think that the "better" school make you a better doctor. I do think that it is lame a$$ excuse for not working hard. I also think that the "better" medical schools do have better faculty in general and will open more doors. Just like it is easier to get into a good medical school from a good undergrad, it is probably easier to get into a good residency from a "better" med school.

    So don't knock good med schools because they are more expensive or whatever. I say work hard, but be realistic. But, I could be wrong...
     
  11. otter

    otter Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    The MOST important thing, regardless of which med school you went, is that you're a good listener, have an open mind, friendly and respectful ... in other words, that you're not a prick.

    Last month, my friend hurt her ankle and she was in a lot of pain. The ankle was terribly swollen and she couldn't walk. She didn't want to go to the ER because she had no insurance, but I insisted since I thought it could be a fracture. At the ER, I guess she had told this doctor, a resident who'd graduated from Johns Hopkins Med, that I'd made her come because it could be broken and also that I was trying to get into med school (dunno why she said this). Anyways, later on we go into the clinical area to see the friend. Then the resident doctor comes by and says that it's nothing but a mild sprain. Then he says to me, "Nice going, doc. Maybe you can split her medical bill with her." Jeez... what kind of a statement is that?! Now I'm upset, but at the time I was made to feel really embarrassed and stupid.

    So you see, you could go to the best med school in the country and still end up being a lousy, mean doctor. True, going to a top-tier med school will surely help with the residency match, which is a very critical springboard to your medical career. But, even if you don't come from the best med school, if you're a truly good, likeable doctor, you will get recognized sooner than later.
     
  12. Medical123

    Medical123 Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    I think that you should work as hard as you can in undergrad to make the best grades possible. Hopefully, by doing so, you will have a lot of acceptances to choose from and can go to a school that you know you will be happy at.

    I work in a hospital and we have doctors who have trained at some of the top medical centers in the country, including Harvard. Then, there are doctors who attended their state schools. I will have to say that there are some "top school" doctors who outshine the state school ones. Yet, there are state school doctors who are a heck of a lot more competent than their ivy league colleagues. There are even huge differences in skill among doctors who worked and trained together. So, no, I don't think that the school you attend will determine how good of a doctor that you become. I think what determines whether or not you will become a good doctor depends on how much you want to succeed and what you put into your education and training.
     
  13. UCLA2000

    UCLA2000 7+ Year Member

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    Dec 19, 2001
    the hospital
    Why do they call schools in the top 20 "good schools"?

    In my opinion it's because they have higher quality instructors (on average). Does that mean that you will be a better physician by going to school there? No not necessarily, but you have the opportunity to learn from the best in the field so you should have an advantage over students at unranked schools.

    If you work hard you can do well at any school, however notice that the top schools tend to have alot more of the that are doing extremely well on the boards. Case in point...UPenn has 30% of their students getting over 99% on the boards.

    Going to a school like Penn, Harvard or Hopkins would open many more doors than coming from Finch. Don't get me wrong,there's NOTHING wrong with Finch. It'll get you that MD and that's all that matters, but the reality is that getting a good residency will be more difficult at Finch than it would be at a top 5, 10, or even 20 school.
     
  14. mdhopeful

    mdhopeful Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    Jun 3, 2001
    Los Angeles
    Doesn't matter where you go. If you go where you will be happiest and is the best thing for your family and life situation you will definitely be doing yourself the favor of getting out of the rat race. Everyone out of undergrad is so caught up in going to the highest ranked school because they value their cv more than their real life. I'm choosing based on location because of family, friends, and my love for my CA life. If I don't get into a CA school, I'm choosing the school in the best location and city. Good luck.
     
  15. Trek

    Trek Grand Uranium Member 7+ Year Member

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    The Big House
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by UCLA2000:
    <strong>
    UPenn has 30% of their students getting over 99% on the boards.
    </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But i'm sure if you put those people at Finch, they'd STILL get over 99%ile on the boards. --Trek
     
  16. Mr. H

    Mr. H 7+ Year Member

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    Dec 11, 2001
    Yeah, I guess it does seem like being at a top school gives you distinct advantages such as residency matching. but other then that, I really don't see anything else. Would doing really well on your usmle's be the key point in residency matching?
    peace
     
  17. katiep

    katiep Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    Aug 16, 2001
    I heard that Yale doesn't do so well on the Boards, but has a good match.
     
  18. Original

    Original Ogori-Magongo Warrior 7+ Year Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by UCLA2000:
    <strong>Why do they call schools in the top 20 "good schools"?

    In my opinion it's because they have higher quality instructors (on average). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hope you don't really believe this. The guy that gets to teach at Harvard, Hopkins, Duke, Penn, or where ever is the guy that has the largest # of research publications. Teaching skills weigh roughly about 0% in the game. It's freaking pathetic the way things are currently set-up. I wouldn't be surprised if lower ranked schools have better instructors in general than top-ten schools. What the he11 can one learn by going to class 2 hrs a day for a mere 2 yrs anyway. That's why they emphasize self-learning so much; cause they know they don't know how to teach <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />
     
  19. lollipop

    lollipop Member 7+ Year Member

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    Feb 1, 2002
    usmle doesn't matter as much as evaluations from your clinical years. most residency programs rely heavily on that.
     
  20. tmesis

    tmesis Member 10+ Year Member

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    I attend U. Pitt, a so-called "top-20" school, at least as ranked by that worthless magazine. Among the top 20 in that magazine's latest rankings, Pitt is dead last. In terms of prestige, there is nearly no advantage in attending Pitt over lower-ranked schools, say USC. The truth is that somewhere below top 15 or so schools (let's say U of Chicago), there's a drastic fall-off in how much your school's prestige will help you. There are, however, some advantages to attending Pitt over some other lower-ranked schools. One is that Pitt is loaded with NIH funding, and that opportunities for research abound, if you're interested. Generally, higher ranked schools tend to have more money and more research opportunities. A friend of mine at a lower ranked school didn't receive much support from his school when he was looking for summer research after his first year. He did, however, end up at NIH, so I don't think it's all that important an advantage. Another plus is that come residency time, even though other residencies may not generally regard Pitt students as highly as, say, a student from Pritzker, I will have some institutional advantage when applying to Pitt's own programs. If I were interested in orthopaedics, pediatrics, or psychiatry, where Pitt is fairly strong, this would be somewhat (though admittedly not a lot) advantageous. The most important advantage I can think of is that generally, higher ranked schools tend to give their students a good clinical exposure during their rotations, whereas lower ranked schools may be more uneven, depending on location. To summarize, although there are some advantages in attending top ranked schools (especially if one is interested in academic medicine), the advantages are fairly minuscule in my opinion.
    PS. To answer your question, no, attending a top school will not make one a better physician.
     
  21. katiep

    katiep Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    Those of you reading this thread are kindly invited to respond to the POLL Revisited: Top Ten or Non-Top-Twenty-Five State School thread. Thank you.
     
  22. UCLA2000

    UCLA2000 7+ Year Member

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    Dec 19, 2001
    the hospital
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Original:
    <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by UCLA2000:
    <strong>Why do they call schools in the top 20 "good schools"?

    In my opinion it's because they have higher quality instructors (on average). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hope you don't really believe this. The guy that gets to teach at Harvard, Hopkins, Duke, Penn, or where ever is the guy that has the largest # of research publications. Teaching skills weigh roughly about 0% in the game. It's freaking pathetic the way things are currently set-up. I wouldn't be surprised if lower ranked schools have better instructors in general than top-ten schools. What the he11 can one learn by going to class 2 hrs a day for a mere 2 yrs anyway. That's why they emphasize self-learning so much; cause they know they don't know how to teach <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Forgive me by higher quality teachers I didn't really mean to say that they were good at teaching. I meant that the people teaching are at the top of their prospective field...hence..higher quality.....and teaching.

    ..and what can one learn by going to a class 2 hrs per day for 2 years? Are you serious? Hmm let's see....you could become a chef....I could teach you enough martial arts so that you could compete nationally...you can learn a foreign language...and a whole hell of alot of other stuff!
     
  23. TXRI

    TXRI Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    The way schools get ranked is by their research dollars. This does not necessarily imply better instructors. Your best bet is to find the web pages of the schools you are thinking of going to and e-mail one of the medical students on the class roster. Ask them if they think they have good faculty. They'll tell you! Plenty of people from state schools get into Derm and other competitive specialties. I don't think the small edge a big name school gives you is worth the pain and suffering of going to a school or location you don't feel comfortable at.
     

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