With the avg dental school debt being 400k, please explain your strategy to conquering this enormous debt when the intrest atm is reaching 8%.

Dec 20, 2019
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I have heard of many paths people have taken and the most prominent one sounds awful.

Less known: NHSC and HPSP scholarships: can't rely on them as getting in is ultra cutthroat competitive even with a 4.0 gpa and a 25 DAT.

Most prominent: paying around 4-5k per month of your 7k dental associate salary after taxes for 10 years. You would be living with around 2k to spare for living/gas/insurance/food/etc. Living with less to spend then a elementary school teacher after getting your dental degree is just a sad, humiliating thought, especially for 5-10 years.

Daunting path: right after graduation or a couple years after start your business by borrowing 500k on top of your ever growing 400k debt and hopefully pray that your business doesn't crash and you are not left without anything in the end.

What other paths are there or is this really how terrible the dental students situation is after they graduate? Maybe go to europe for free dental school?? Can't find any information about it, so I assume it's not worth the effort.

Also not to mention that the 450k avg doesn't include cost of living. And for those who are intrested, I am a CA resident, so the tuition here for in state is the same as most private out if state dental school within the US.

*I am a freshman in college atm and am deciding whether to go for MD/DO/PA/DMD. If not for the massive debt, I would have not been questioning this path.*

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What other paths are there or is this really how terrible the dental students situation is after they graduate? Maybe go to europe for free dental school?? Can't find any information about it, so I assume it's not worth the effort.
One option is to go to a cost-effective dental school. There are dental schools that cost less than 400K; in fact, the average dental school debt burden is ~290K.
 
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One option is to go to a cost-effective dental school. There are dental schools that cost less than 400K; in fact, the average dental school debt burden is ~290K.
Those numbers are without the 8% interest and the 3% increase of tuition every year. Plus cost of living, etc.. if I can find the post, it will show you the actual cost of these schools.

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artist2022

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Be on the lower end of that average and pick the cheapest school you get into. From there, live within your means/be frugal and look for scholarships to help minimize your debt further.
Dental school doesn't have to be 400k+. Some people on here are going to school for less than half of that amount, without HPSP/NHSC. It's possible, but def not with a private or an Ivy I'd say
 
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One option is to go to a cost-effective dental school. There are dental schools that cost less than 400K; in fact, the average dental school debt burden is ~290K.
Here ya go, can't find the post, but it was from a post here from SDN. The min is 400k for an OOS that actually accepts OOS, not like some of the texas schools lol.
 

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Be on the lower end of that average and pick the cheapest school you get into. From there, live within your means/be frugal and look for scholarships to help minimize your debt further.
Dental school doesn't have to be 400k+. Some people on here are going to school for less than half of that amount, without HPSP/NHSC. It's possible, but def not with a private or an Ivy I'd say
Here ya go, can't find the post, but it was from a post here from SDN. The min is 400k for an OOS that actually accepts OOS, not like some of the texas schools lol.
 

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artist2022

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Here ya go, can't find the post, but it was from a post here from SDN. The min is 400k for an OOS that actually accepts OOS, not like some of the texas schools lol.
If these numbers are from the school's website directly, then sometimes they'll maximize their costs to an extent. Also, schools do offer grants and scholarships, which can be quite significant, which are not accounted for in this spreadsheet too.

Also since you're only a freshman, it seems like you do want to be a healthcare professional, but you're not sure which one to be, so you're trying to keep your options open. Makes sense. Just keep in mind, these fields are vastly different from one another. So while considering debt is a smart thing to do, you also don't want to be stuck doing a job you hate just because it was your cheapest option. I'd really suggest first shadowing each of those professions for a significant amount of time to see what they're like, before jumping into the costs/benefits of each.
 

Needmyphone

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The average amount of debt is skewed. It’s what sounds attractive, but we know that number comes from students whose parents will help them pay down their debt.

I think it’s an amazing time to come out with $400k of debt because 1) the hustle to become a true entrepreneur will really begin in the midst of this recession caused by the pandemic. 2) it will teach us how to scale our services and availability to what people want from their dentist. 3) the recession will be a great time to purchase a practice.

I don’t have plans to practice in a large city, and I definitely don’t plan on going to residency. I’m eager to get out there and learn through a corporate gig first and keep my debts low enough to where I can save for my first practice three to five years down the line.

I estimate my debt to be around $380k.

Cheers!


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Currently a D2 here. I don't have any parental help, and I'm single and live alone. I don't know your personal situation, but there are things you can do to curb costs if you're smart about it. You can consider taking a couple gap years to save up and plan your future cost of living while in school. I took two gap years and worked as a dental assistant in a high-paying practice. I was able to save up about $60,000 that I am now using to pay my cost of living bills. I realize this is a unique situation for a dental assistant to be in, but there are other similar jobs you could get if you're smart about it to pay a similar salary. You have to be frugal, but it's doable. I also bought a small condo, so after I graduate, I'll be able to sell and get a return on my investment instead of throwing away money in rent. I realize that 60k isn't going to pay all my expenses, but I estimate it to carry me almost through next semester, so I won't have to take out COL loans until about halfway through my third year of school.

I went to my state school, so my tuition was relatively on the cheaper side. All in all, I estimate to graduate with around only 200k in debt after interest. You just have to be smart about it if you really want to curb the costs. I truly believe it will be worth it for that much debt. I honestly don't think I would have gone to dental school if I had to be 400k in debt like you are considering.
 

charlestweed

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OP, since you are still in your freshman year, I suggest you to study as hard as you can now. Don’t party too much. Instead, spend the free time you have to either to double major or find a mentor to work on a research project. With good GPA + other extracurricular activities, you’ll have more options. The more choices you have the better. You can pick whatever you want MD, DMD, PA etc. With good grades, you’ll have better chance to get accepted to a cheaper state school. Some state dental schools offer scholarship for students with good undergrad GPA. My roommate (also dental classmate) got a scholarship that helped cover 2/3 of the total cost of attendance.
 
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charlestweed

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The average amount of debt is skewed. It’s what sounds attractive, but we know that number comes from students whose parents will help them pay down their debt.

I think it’s an amazing time to come out with $400k of debt because 1) the hustle to become a true entrepreneur will really begin in the midst of this recession caused by the pandemic. 2) it will teach us how to scale our services and availability to what people want from their dentist. 3) the recession will be a great time to purchase a practice.

I don’t have plans to practice in a large city, and I definitely don’t plan on going to residency. I’m eager to get out there and learn through a corporate gig first and keep my debts low enough to where I can save for my first practice three to five years down the line.

I estimate my debt to be around $380k.

Cheers!


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This is a good plan. You’ll learn a lot from working at busy, low overhead, and “less than ideal” office environment (like corp offices) than at a slower private practice environment. Just like having a good workout….in order to grow your muscle mass and become stronger, you need to sweat and need to be pushed to the limit.

Facing the student loan debt obstacle will teach you more things in life than a person who has everything handed to him/her by his/her parents. With high student loan debt, you will be more careful with how you spend your hard earned money….ie keeping the overhead low, hiring fewer assistants and doing more things by yourself, having more efficiently run office etc.
 

zToothinator

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  1. Minor point but the interest rate on grad PLUS loans last year was ~7% and if the 10 year treasury note stays where it is now til May, it'll be ~6% for loans for the 2020-21 year. Direct unsubsidized loans are 1% less than grad PLUS loans.
  2. As a freshman, try to keep your GPA up and get involved in extracurriculars. If you're a really competitive applicant, you can get into schools that offer in-state status after your first year such as UNC, UConn, etc. That'll cut your cost down too especially being in a cheaper area of living than California.
  3. From my experience, the cost of living is more than you need. If you find roommates, cook, and don't make expensive purchases using your loan money (car) it'll reduce your COA by a lot.
  4. Once you get out, you could also refinance your loans to get a lower interest rate. You'd give up most of the benefits of federal loans (longer repayment and forgiveness).
 
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RYost234

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Currently my only acceptance is Pitt (~400k). Would my best plan be to use REPAYE to pay the minimum possible, providing me with some money to open/buy into a practice ASAP to hit the higher salaries faster?
 

Blueshirts

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Currently my only acceptance is Pitt (~400k). Would my best plan be to use REPAYE to pay the minimum possible, providing me with some money to open/buy into a practice ASAP to hit the higher salaries faster?
That would be a wise plan, I am looking to do the same thing. Collect enough cash, get experience for speed and work flow, use the money I save to purchase the real estate, while taking full loan for the business. I suggest similar iterations of this strategy to lots of people.
 
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What do you guys think of the mexican dental school which is accredited by CA? It only costs 100k total and only lasts 2 years. After which you can practice in CA. After practicing here for 5 years, you can gain access to practicing in other states. The school is called De La Salle University.

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Ali527

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Hi Doc, after practicing for 5 years you can't work outside of California, if you get a Mexican degree you'll be foreign dentist for the rest of your life....just in California you can practice, unless something changes.
What do you guys think of the mexican dental school which is accredited by CA? It only costs 100k total and only lasts 2 years. After which you can practice in CA. After practicing here for 5 years, you can gain access to practicing in other states. The school is called De La Salle University.

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I’m curious. A lot of predents that are projected to have astronomical student loans say they’re gonna buy/start a practice ASAP to help pay down their $500,000+ education debt. How much do you all think it costs to acquire a practice?

Big Hoss
I was simply asking what's the best plan of action for repayment once you're in the 400 range. Does repaye and investing more into partnership status not make more sense than being an associate trapped at 130k?

Yes I would go to my state school if I got in. Still wait listed
 

Needmyphone

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I’m curious. A lot of predents that are projected to have astronomical student loans say they’re gonna buy/start a practice ASAP to help pay down their $500,000+ education debt. How much do you all think it costs to acquire a practice?

Big Hoss
Just about the same amount as we financed to go to school.


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The best way to attack this high debt is to do a combination of military and work at a FQHC when you graduate. If you can't get HPSP, you can go for the National Guard or Reserves. They offer $240K of loan repayment. Combine that with working at a FQHC greater than 70% of your debt will be accounted for without having to come out of pocket
 
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I have heard of many paths people have taken and the most prominent one sounds awful.

Less known: NHSC and HPSP scholarships: can't rely on them as getting in is ultra cutthroat competitive even with a 4.0 gpa and a 25 DAT.

Most prominent: paying around 4-5k per month of your 7k dental associate salary after taxes for 10 years. You would be living with around 2k to spare for living/gas/insurance/food/etc. Living with less to spend then a elementary school teacher after getting your dental degree is just a sad, humiliating thought, especially for 5-10 years.

Daunting path: right after graduation or a couple years after start your business by borrowing 500k on top of your ever growing 400k debt and hopefully pray that your business doesn't crash and you are not left without anything in the end.

What other paths are there or is this really how terrible the dental students situation is after they graduate? Maybe go to europe for free dental school?? Can't find any information about it, so I assume it's not worth the effort.

Also not to mention that the 450k avg doesn't include cost of living. And for those who are intrested, I am a CA resident, so the tuition here for in state is the same as most private out if state dental school within the US.

*I am a freshman in college atm and am deciding whether to go for MD/DO/PA/DMD. If not for the massive debt, I would have not been questioning this path.*

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Physician Assistants can come out of school make $120k (friend of mine just accepted an offer making $135k her first year with $10k sign-on bonus and more perks) for an 18-month Masters program. Not saying dont go into dentistry, but if you're really worried about and not 100% decided dentistry is the path for you, check out being a PA.
 
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Physician Assistants can come out of school make $120k (friend of mine just accepted an offer making $135k her first year with $10k sign-on bonus and more perks) for an 18-month Masters program. Not saying dont go into dentistry, but if you're really worried about and not 100% decided dentistry is the path for you, check out being a PA.
I have explored this and feel the lack of any vertical growth will eat me from inside the longer I work as a PA. I can see myself being happy for the first decade, but after I think I will go crazy as the only thing I can do is switch departments but have no real increase in my salary with the glass ceiling and always being inferior to doctors.

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And what do you think physicians think of dentists?

Big Hoss
Well dentist is a doctor specializing in oral health who has earned either a Doctor of Dental Medicine (DMD) degree or a Doctor of Dental Surgery (DDS) degree, which are essentially the same.

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fermi555

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Well dentist is a doctor specializing in oral health who has earned either a Doctor of Dental Medicine (DMD) degree or a Doctor of Dental Surgery (DDS) degree, which are essentially the same.

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Many MD's still do not view us as equals. But who cares? Don't pick a career based on what other people think of you.
 
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Haha good luck trying to get most doctors to agree with that logic
In many schools the dental school and medical school share the same classes for the first two years. Essentially gaining the same knowledge in some instances other than the obvious.

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Many MD's still do not view us as equals. But who cares? Don't pick a career based on what other people think of you.
I'm not so attached on how people view me, but of how I would view myself. In the PA case, lower in knowledge and not specialized for any work, like a dentist for example.

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In many schools the dental school and medical school share the same classes for the first two years. Essentially gaining the same knowledge in some instances other than the obvious.

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Yes, I've been through dental school. I know the process. And I'm telling you the vast majority of poll physicians I have spoken to in a professional setting do not see us on their level
 
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Yes, I've been through dental school. I know the process. And I'm telling you the vast majority of poll physicians I have spoken to in a professional setting do not see us on their level
That is fine as I wont be working with them day by day in a corporate sense or in my own private business... plus I'd feel better if I can specialize in one craft and not be a jack if all trades and a master of none.

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Physician Assistants can come out of school make $120k (friend of mine just accepted an offer making $135k her first year with $10k sign-on bonus and more perks) for an 18-month Masters program. Not saying dont go into dentistry, but if you're really worried about and not 100% decided dentistry is the path for you, check out being a PA.
I came across this document: https://media.bcm.edu/documents/2014/84/positions-8.12.14.pdf. Most PA positions advertised here have a compensation rage between $85k and $100k. Granted, these numbers are from 2014. Is PA's salary continuing to increase despite all the saturation that has been happening in the past couple years?
 

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I came across this document: https://media.bcm.edu/documents/2014/84/positions-8.12.14.pdf. Most PA positions advertised here have a compensation rage between $85k and $100k. Granted, these numbers are from 2014. Is PA's salary continuing to increase despite all the saturation that has been happening in the past couple years?
I can't say for certain. My experience is purely anecdotal through six close friends who are all making > $100k straight out of school.
 

Blueshirts

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PA is a great job, I have a few friends that switched careers and are now very happy. One thing to always consider with dentistry, as is, this is still one of the few professional fields where you can be a business-person and not just an employee.
 
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endodonia

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go into chemical engineering, finance, or accounting. I agree with you on the issue of being a PA is the lack of upward career trajectory. I agree with others that in the eyes of an MD--> DO, DDS, DMD, PA are all the same. I would not become a dentist for 400K in student loans.
 
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FitDMD

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Many MD's still do not view us as equals. But who cares? Don't pick a career based on what other people think of you.

I think they’re just jealous

But I honestly don’t understand how people can say we are lower than MDs. Yes we went through less years of schooling but we do completely different procedures. We are not nurses or PAs who work under supervisions or MDs. They don’t have credentials to do root canals, crowns, extractions..
 

2TH MVR

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Too many people here worried about the "DOCTOR" title. I guess it's an ego thing. As soon as you get the DR. in front of your name ..... you'll run to get your credit card name changed to DR. 2TH MVR. All your return mail with have Dr. on it. Casual conversations .... "Hi. My name is DR ...........". Answer your phone away from work ...."Hello ....Dr. So and So. Make a reservation at a nice restaurant under the DR. name. How about the vanity plates? KIDSDOC, DRBETH, IM A DR, STKUPDR, DRSMILE, REAL DR, etc. etc. 2TH MVR doesn't count :D . Personal email: [email protected] Everytime someone gets an email from you ..... they hear you screaming: I'm a DOCTOR.

In time .... you won't even care about the DR. title. I know you worked hard for it, but seriously .... it means nothing in the large scope of life. I actually PREFER not be addressed DR. At my Corp gig .... all the new DRS refer to all the DRS as DR. So and So. I'll remind them to just refer to me as 2TH MVR. In social circles ... I do not bring up being a DOCTOR unless asked and I sure as hell do not introduce myself as DR. 2TH MVR.

So it doesn't matter what our MD colleagues think. Lets be real. MDs do not think highly of DOs. DDS/DMD do not think highly of academic DRS (you know .... the Dr. of under water basket weaving, etc. etc.

Just be you.
 
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Financially speaking, I don't think going into big debt for dentistry is a great idea. Think about the end goal, which is high NW leading to comfortable retirement. Most dentists probably need to retire with around $4-5 million in non-primary home assets, which at a 4% SWR gives you 200k per year to live on, which is reasonably similar to dentist income. Getting to $4-5 million will probably take many dentists with 400k+ debt atleast till age 50, if not 60, and that's being optimistic. Most dentists probably don't save enough to ever hit $5 mil. Also, you realistically won't be saving any significant money till atleast age 32, since from 26-32 most of your after tax money will go to student loans.

Compare that to a FAANG engineer, or someone in high finance. These dudes can easily hit $5 mil before age 50. They start at 22 with relatively low student loans (depending on if parents paid for UG or not). Many engineers get stock options in their company which can range from 20k/year to 500k+/yr for senior engineers. That alone will make their NW skyrocket. These guys also essentially get a 10 year head start towards saving for retirement, given dentists can't really start saving till 32 because of student loans. Don't discount the power of compounding, starting to save early can make your money grow exponentially by your 40's and 50's, that 10 year head start is significant!

If you want, you can run the calculator yourself: When Can I Retire? Early Retirement Calculator / FIRE Calculator - Engaging Data

tl;dr Dentistry is a pretty terrible career for FIRE, unless you're like Cold Front and pop off on investments/income. If you plan on working 60+, then dentistry can be a very nice career. If you only want to make $$ and retire early, you're better off going into high finance (PE/HF/IB) or engineering.

*I know this isn't relevant to what OP was asking, but I was just showing that going into 400k debt for dentistry in the first place is a bad idea. It sets you back a lot for retirement, which is the end goal for pretty much everyone who works. Don't even get into that position, and then you don't have to worry about how you will pay 400k at 8% interest back!
 
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If that was the only thing you took away from my comment, then you are completely missing the point. The average retirement age for dentists is around 70. That is concerning, because it is much higher than the average retirement age for an American. This means that ~50% of dentists have to work past 70. Thats nuts!!
And with the crazy high debt new grads are in these days, that average retirement age is gonna be pushed back even further. Back in 2001, the average retirement age for dentists was 65 (still higher than average, but more reasonable), it has climbed to about 69 now (I think it's most likely due to the increasing D school debt), how much further will it go?

Bottom line, don't go into 400k+ debt for dental school. At 22 years old you can say easily I will work till I'm 70, no worries about debt I'll pay it back eventually. But your perspective might change as you get older and actually start working.

My dentist is around 70 years old, easily worth 8 figures+, but he still practices because he enjoys dentistry. He is financially independent; he no longer practices dentistry because he has to pay the bills, he practices dentistry because it is a hobby to him. That's who I aspire to be one day. Being 400k+ in debt to start your career, what are the odds you will be practicing because you enjoy it, and not because you can't afford to retire?
 
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hersh_98

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My dentist is around 70 years old, easily worth 8 figures+, but he still practices because he enjoys dentistry. He is financially independent; he no longer practices dentistry because he has to pay the bills, he practices dentistry because it is a hobby to him. That's who I aspire to be one day. Being 400k+ in debt to start your career, what are the odds you will be practicing because you enjoy it, and not because you can't afford to retire?
Maybe other dentists are working longer for the same reasons yours is? Dentists who are pushing retirement age right now didn't graduate with the debt current grads will have, contrary to your argument. Correlation =/= causation. Not saying high debt isn't bad, but I don't think we'll see how debt influences retirement age until recent-ish grads start getting old.
 

RYost234

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I agree 400k+ is absurd, especially considering the cost of entry just 20 years ago. People that go into dentistry to work as an associate at that cost will forever be in debt. But what about those who plan to open/merge into a practice asap? Living frugally while working at a Corp for 2 years while paying the minimum on loans will provide enough money to build a cheap startup or potentially buy into a practice. If you go the practice route, you could stay at Corp 4x/week and have your practice open 2-3 days until patient pool increases. If you buy into a practice you have a significant pay bump early. Is this not a viable strategy to tackle the loans? I think if your business savvy and are aggressive in your plan for ownership you'll be able to make it work at 400k
 
Apr 21, 2019
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Maybe other dentists are working longer for the same reasons yours is? Dentists who are pushing retirement age right now didn't graduate with the debt current grads will have, contrary to your argument. Correlation =/= causation. Not saying high debt isn't bad, but I don't think we'll see how debt influences retirement age until recent-ish grads start getting old.
Actually you're right, I didn't think about it like that. It might have been the 2008 recession which caused dentists to work longer.

But I feel the rest of my argument still stands. 400k+ debt effectively pushes you back a decade or so for retirement (paying off loans + loss of savings adds up to a decade worth of NW due to compounding) which is a big deal imo.

I agree 400k+ is absurd, especially considering the cost of entry just 20 years ago. People that go into dentistry to work as an associate at that cost will forever be in debt. But what about those who plan to open/merge into a practice asap? Living frugally while working at a Corp for 2 years while paying the minimum on loans will provide enough money to build a cheap startup or potentially buy into a practice. If you go the practice route, you could stay at Corp 4x/week and have your practice open 2-3 days until patient pool increases. If you buy into a practice you have a significant pay bump early. Is this not a viable strategy to tackle the loans? I think if your business savvy and are aggressive in your plan for ownership you'll be able to make it work at 400k
I think that it's not really all doom and gloom for dentists. We probably won't be able to retire early like our successful finance/engineering friends, but we will still have a healtheir retirement than 95% of the American population, and we get to work a kickass job, busting down cavities, finessing some crowns, slamming some implants. I would rather be doing that than spreadsheets in excel like my finance buddies.

And yeah I agree, if a dentist is successful and goes into practice ownership, earning 300k+, then given they save/invest well they should have a very secure retirement and will live a very comfortable life.

But I still feel like pre-dents today should think long and hard, because 400k+ debt is a big deal and can have major ramifications for quality of life, not only once you graduate school, but also when you're older and you see all your peers retiring with comfy pensions etc. and you're still trying to build up your portfolio. Just my 2 cents
 
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Status
Pre-Medical
I agree 400k+ is absurd, especially considering the cost of entry just 20 years ago. People that go into dentistry to work as an associate at that cost will forever be in debt. But what about those who plan to open/merge into a practice asap? Living frugally while working at a Corp for 2 years while paying the minimum on loans will provide enough money to build a cheap startup or potentially buy into a practice. If you go the practice route, you could stay at Corp 4x/week and have your practice open 2-3 days until patient pool increases. If you buy into a practice you have a significant pay bump early. Is this not a viable strategy to tackle the loans? I think if your business savvy and are aggressive in your plan for ownership you'll be able to make it work at 400k
Lets break it down quickly:
After graduation, you will probably find a job as an associate for 120k gross per year.
120k, after taxes is 80k that you have left.
the min payment on these types of loans are usually around 4k per month.
4 times 12 months is 48k
80k-48k= 32k
32k - (lets say 20k if you live very frugaly with no family to support gone for food, gas, utilities, rent, life)= 12k

So now your measly 12k in savings, over 2 years will get you 24k. The is no office that can be bought for that.


Another option is to open a business straight out of college.
So 400k of debt plus 500k for a cheap business will be around a million probably after you can actually get the place running.


Now imagine, a dentist who has a limited scope on how to run a business, which most dental students do, runs for about 2-3 years, burning through money. You close down.

YOU are left with a million in debt, and now have to work the rest of your life as a dental associate, chipping away at the debt you will never pay off.

Please think of this :)
 

Ali527

2+ Year Member
Jul 12, 2018
52
6
I think you're comparing the highest salary of a medical assistant to the lowest salary of a dentist ...
I have a friend who is a truck driver and owner, he made 200k last year ... I can't imagine the doctors leaving their offices and starting to drive a big truck.
Physician Assistants can come out of school make $120k (friend of mine just accepted an offer making $135k her first year with $10k sign-on bonus and more perks) for an 18-month Masters program. Not saying dont go into dentistry, but if you're really worried about and not 100% decided dentistry is the path for you, check out being a PA.
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May 7, 2019
300
243
Status
Dentist
I think you're comparing the highest salary of a medical assistant to the lowest salary of a dentist ...
I have a friend who is a truck driver and owner, he made 200k last year ... I can't imagine the doctors leaving their offices and starting to drive a big truck.

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First of all, its physician assistant, not medical assistant.

Without doing the math, I would argue that a 24y/o making $100k as a PA with $100k in student loans would be slightly better off than a 26y/o making $140k as a dentist with $500k in student loans. (I know theres someone on here that has the free time to do the math on this).
 

Ali527

2+ Year Member
Jul 12, 2018
52
6
First of all, its physician assistant, not medical assistant.

Without doing the math, I would argue that a 24y/o making $100k as a PA with $100k in student loans would be slightly better off than a 26y/o making $140k as a dentist with $500k in student loans. (I know theres someone on here that has the free time to do the math on this).
Loll my mistake..P.A I mean.
You can drive a Truck if you want...I prefer to be a Doctor.

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