Women and the Future of Dentistry

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UltimateHombre

Doc Holliday D.D.S.
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Hey friends! So i am starting this thread, because i want others opinions... especially women who are going into dentistry. First off, i want to start off by saying that i am in no way sexist, so please spare the accusations. However, i will say my viewpoints are probably more traditional then most. Ie: When my wife and i start having children, she will stay home with them (her own decision) until they are old enough to be in school all day. She will then probably go back to being an elementary school teacher.

We have all been told that dentists are retiring to graduates 3 to 2 right now and the outlook on dentistry is bright. But i was also thinking that since 50% of dschool seats are now occupied by women, will this also have a significant effect on the demand for dentistry?

Lets be honest, many women will be full time dentists, but many (especially if they marry other well payed professionals) will not. They take maternity leave, work part time to raise children, and after 5-10 years may leave the field all together. It is my personal belief that these are all very realistic outcomes.

I am not sure how something like this would be measured, but if anyone has valid statistics on the average amount of time women practice it would be helpful.

But what do y'all think? How does/will 50% of women dental grads effect dental demands 5, 10, 25 years in the future? Ladies please give input here!! :D

Other threads on the topic are usually 5+ yrs old.... but here are couple
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=106087
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=55689

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Hey friends! So i am starting this thread, because i want others opinions... especially women who are going into dentistry. First off, i want to start off by saying that i am in no way sexist, so please spare the accusations. However, i will say my viewpoints are probably more traditional then most. Ie: When my wife and i start having children, she will stay home with them (her own decision) until they are old enough to be in school all day. She will then probably go back to being an elementary school teacher.

We have all been told that dentists are retiring to graduates 3 to 2 right now and the outlook on dentistry is bright. But i was also thinking that since 50% of dschool seats are now occupied by women, will this also have a significant effect on the demand for dentistry?

Lets be honest, many women will be full time dentists, but many (especially if they marry other well payed professionals) will not. They take maternity leave, work part time to raise children, and after 5-10 years may leave the field all together. It is my personal belief that these are all very realistic outcomes.

I am not sure how something like this would be measured, but if anyone has valid statistics on the average amount of time women practice it would be helpful.

But what do y'all think? How does/will 50% of women dental grads effect dental demands 5, 10, 25 years in the future? Ladies please give input here!! :D

Other threads on the topic are usually 5+ yrs old.... but here are couple
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=106087
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=55689

Not in the places where it matters the most (big heavily populated cities).

I've mentioned this before, if you go to google maps and type something like "dentist in detroit" (or any other popular city). Your gonna get between 10k-15k HITS.... Thats like 10,000+ dentists JUST for 1 city (its crazy I know). Even if 50% would retire over the next few months. There is still 5000+ more servicing the city. So shortage = not gonna happen.

I'll tell you where the shortage will INCREASE (i.e even more shortage). Undeserved areas, outskirts of major cities, small towns, etc. These places are going to get hammered (as always). Because men who are single and don't have many obligations wouldn't wanna move there, yet alone a female.
 
this is exactly what the dentist i'm shadowing was talking about with me today!
 
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Just curious what implications the observation make. Should dschools reserve less seats for females. I'm not trying to be rude, but am just wondering politely, "so what?"

Just an aside, the orthodontist I work for just had her 3rd child. She was gone 3 months and is back. She leaves the children with 2 nannies and works mon-thur.
 
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hmmmmmm
the dentist i work for, his wife just had 2 kids back to back (shes also a dentist) and he basically told me well what choice does she have shes the woman she needs to stay home and take care of our kids.
um awkward moment, i guess i took that as sexist on his part but i swallowed bc wat the hell am i gonna say to that @work. anyway
if the girl wants to stay home and take care of her kids forevs, good for her, if she doesnt shell go back to work.
its just that simple? it depends on the person. I personally plan on having my own practice and working as much as I need to. I'm not busting my a -s-s to get into dental school to just sit at home and be a mom/wife for the rest of my life after i graduate & shell out 100s of g's for nothing. that can be one of my titles but its gonna be--"mrs. ----, DMD" & ill be practicing those DMD skills fo lifeeee right alongside the mom skills. no need to choose bt the two.
maybe for some women they choose to leave the field completley if theyre comfortable with that decision, Some wont. It also may depend on your upbringing and ur culture and where ur from and what u think is right etc.
 
Another thing to consider is... Compare how much the female dentist makes per hour vs the nany she hires.

My sister owns her own office. She has 3 children (almost 7 year old, almost 6 year old, and a 4.5 year old). Her kids are in school now so no need for nany. But before they went to school, she would work 4 days a week (about 35 hrs) and hire a nany to take care of them.

She worked/still works 35 hrs per week and still has plenty of time to spend with her children.

By the way, she does NOT have to work, she is married to a doctor who works like 50-60 hrs a week. She works cause she enjoys it.
 
I think it's a valid question, and one I've thought about before. I'll give you my 2 cents for what it's worth.

I DO think there is an increased chance that women dentists will work part-time or not at all at some point during their career. Does that mean a greater job outlook for us men then, especially since dental schools are admitting 50% women? Probably not much if any at all.

More and more women are moving away from the "traditional" approach to parenting and are pursuing full-time professional careers. Those that DO decide to work part-time or quit will probably just do so while their kids are not in school which is what, 10 years? Then they'll be back to work.

The gender thing may play a bigger role in specializing then in anything else...
 
I don't think an increase in the number of women dentists will have a big impact on the "dental demand" at all. There is no way I'm going to bust my butt for 4 years, go into hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and miss out on the fun of being a 20-something that my friends are getting to have while I'm in school just to quit when I get married and have kids. Sure, when I have kids I'll do the maternity leave thing, but as soon as they're old enough for daycare I'm going to be right back at work! I feel like most (though not all) women who are driven enough to pursue this career will not be satisfied with being a stay at home mom for longer than the few years between when the kids are born and when they go to school. Besides, what a waste if you have these great hand skills and all you use them for is peekaboo and folding laundry. Not to say that there's anything wrong with being a stay at home mom - it's the hardest and most important job in the world. Just not my style.
 
I think society would be much better off if parents invested more time in raising their children. The best thing my father did for our family was provide enough so that my mother could stay at home with us. I chose dentistry not to be rich but to be able to spend time with my family and live comfortably.

I'm not against women having professional careers, but think there's no greater calling that a woman can have than that of a mother.
 
+1

i think society would be much better off if parents invested more time in raising their children. The best thing my father did for our family was provide enough so that my mother could stay at home with us. I chose dentistry not to be rich but to be able to spend time with my family and live comfortably.

I'm not against women having professional careers, but think there's no greater calling that a woman can have than that of a mother.
 
I think society would be much better off if parents invested more time in raising their children. The best thing my father did for our family was provide enough so that my mother could stay at home with us. I chose dentistry not to be rich but to be able to spend time with my family and live comfortably.

I'm not against women having professional careers, but think there's no greater calling that a woman can have than that of a mother.

You can be fully invested in raising your kids while still having both parents with full time professional careers. You can also have stay at home parents who are not fully invested in raising their kids. It's not a career-dependant thing, it's a person-dependant thing. My parents were very involved with us and they both worked full time jobs. Career-oriented and family-oriented are not mutually exclusive. If the men are so concerned with the way their children are being raised, then they can stay at home with them while the wife works at her dental office. There's no greater calling for a man than to be a father.
 
i think society would be much better off if parents invested more time in raising their children. The best thing my father did for our family was provide enough so that my mother could stay at home with us. I chose dentistry not to be rich but to be able to spend time with my family and live comfortably.

I'm not against women having professional careers, but think there's no greater calling that a woman can have than that of a mother.

+1
 
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Sure, when I have kids I'll do the maternity leave thing, but as soon as they're old enough for daycare I'm going to be right back at work!

Although i admire your drive and ambition peachy... i wonder if your feelings will change when you do have kids. If you are able to stay home with your children when they are young, providing your future husband makes good money, i wonder if you will still want to send them to daycare? Maybe you will prefer yourself to raise your kids, rather than a daycare?

I feel like most (though not all) women who are driven enough to pursue this career will not be satisfied with being a stay at home mom

You may find that when you actually have children, you are no longer satisfied with being dentist, and your most true joy and satisfaction comes from being a "stay at home mom". Also this is a fairly broad assumption, especially considering approximately 2000 women a year get accepted to dschool.

Besides, what a waste if you have these great hand skills and all you use them for is peekaboo and folding laundry.

Many would argue that your hand skills are much better used at playing peekaboo, then drilling on teeth.

My point is not to argue, but i am saying that the mindset of a women in her early 20's is radically different than a women in her mid 30's. Priorities become different, especially when maternal instincts kick in. The situation is compounded even more, if the husband makes good money and her loans are payed off.

I agree with slm... one of the best things we can do is invest in our children. Whether or not that means the husband or wife staying home to nurture the children.
 
You can be fully invested in raising your kids while still having both parents with full time professional careers.

I think you can be fully invested, but you may run short on time... It seems that nobody on their deathbed says "i wish i spent more time at work", it is always "i wish i spent more time with family".

Children don't seem to notice good intentions, but rather quality time. Sure i know my dad would have loved to spend more time playing basketball with me as a kid. However knowing he would have and knowing he actually did are two very different things.

You can also have stay at home parents who are not fully invested in raising their kids. It's not a career-dependant thing, it's a person-dependant thing.

Agreed!!!

If the men are so concerned with the way their children are being raised, then they can stay at home with them while the wife works at her dental office. There's no greater calling for a man than to be a father.

Agreed again!!! And men should be very concerned about the way their children are being raised.
 
To the original question:

No, I dont believe the increase of female dentists will cause a shortage of dental care in the US. Most women who pursue dental school are aware of the lifelong time commitment and plan on keeping maternity leave at a minimum. Women who want to take years off to stay home with their kids often choose careers with more flexibility like dental hygiene. Being the solo dentist in a private practice (the most common areas for this are rural) means that taking time off equals ZERO income and loss of patients and employees.

But here's an idea: About 95% of hygienists are female. How about we balance things out by getting more men in the profession of dental hygiene? In every practice I have ever worked in it takes longer to get an appointment with the hygienist than with the dentist.

As far as having your kids raised by someone else: ever heard of a mother-in-law apartment? We live in a multi-generational home and it works out beautifully! My son is getting to know his grandma like I never did. I see patients from 8 to 6 but I come home at lunch to get some play time in. There are always ways to make it work!
 
I think society would be much better off if parents invested more time in raising their children. The best thing my father did for our family was provide enough so that my mother could stay at home with us. I chose dentistry not to be rich but to be able to spend time with my family and live comfortably.

:thumbup:

I'm not against women having professional careers, but think there's no greater calling that a woman can have than that of a mother.

:thumbdown:

So what about us women who choose not to have children? Are we somehow lacking? What about men? Isn't there no greater calling for a man than to be a father? Or is it different for men?

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but I get really annoyed when people assume that just because I have a vagina, I want a child to come out of it. (And in case you're going to use the "mothering instinct" argument -- yes, I'm nearing 30 and no, I still don't feel the need to have a child. I have a nephew who I love and care about and that's enough for me.)

I don't think an increase in the number of women dentists will have a big impact on the "dental demand" at all. There is no way I'm going to bust my butt for 4 years, go into hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and miss out on the fun of being a 20-something that my friends are getting to have while I'm in school just to quit when I get married and have kids.

:thumbup:

By the way, it's no longer incredibly strange for the man to be a stay-at-home dad. I know the OP (and others) didn't mean to be sexist (though who does?), but with the changing gender attitudes in our society, perhaps some male dentists will choose to be stay-at-home dads (if they can afford to do so).
 
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So what about us women who choose not to have children? Are we somehow lacking? What about men? Isn't there no greater calling for a man than to be a father? Or is it different for men?

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but I get really annoyed when people assume that just because I have a vagina, I want a child to come out of it. (And in case you're going to use the "mothering instinct" argument -- yes, I'm nearing 30 and no, I still don't feel the need to have a child. I have a nephew who I love and care about and that's enough for me.)

Again, my comment did not say, "women working=bad, mothers=good", but rather that there is nothing greater than to be a mother. Some choose not to pursue families and that's their decision. Some physiologically are not able (my wife for the past 2 yrs) to conceive.

I'm just saying, for those who do have kids and have the means to stay home, there is nothing more rewarding.

As far as the stay-at-home-dads vs mothers goes, that's a personal decision. IMO i believe women inherently make superior nurturers than men. Not that "they belong at home and have no place in the workforce", but nobody can do a better job at guiding a child than a mother can.

Again, these are my personal beliefs that my wife and I hold, and I am not saying this is how it should be for everybody. It was just hard to remain quiet as people were belittling the role of motherhood.
 
I'm currently working in a non-health related field, and have a co-worker who has a 4-year old. She keeps saying how she hates this job because she wants to be at home when her kid gets outta school at 2p. I admire her for that.

Personally, I think the wifey working is a great thing. If my wife and I were dentists, I would want her to pursue her own career/ambitions rather than stay at home 8-5 twiddling her thumbs. I wouldn't personally hire a nanny though. That's what grandma is for muahahah

Anyway, once that kid hits Kindergarten and above.. who the heck would want to stay home for 8 hours? I know I would be bored outta my f'in mind. So why would I tell my wife to do something that I wouldn't do myself?
 
Again, my comment did not say, "women working=bad, mothers=good", but rather that there is nothing greater than to be a mother. Some choose not to pursue families and that's their decision. Some physiologically are not able (my wife for the past 2 yrs) to conceive.

I'm just saying, for those who do have kids and have the means to stay home, there is nothing more rewarding.

As far as the stay-at-home-dads vs mothers goes, that's a personal decision. IMO i believe women inherently make superior nurturers than men. Not that "they belong at home and have no place in the workforce", but nobody can do a better job at guiding a child than a mother can.

Again, these are my personal beliefs that my wife and I hold, and I am not saying this is how it should be for everybody. It was just hard to remain quiet as people were belittling the role of motherhood.

are you a mother?
 
It was just hard to remain quiet as people were belittling the role of motherhood.

I don't know that anyone was belittling motherhood, I think it was more defending our role as women in modern society. The idea that we will automatically want to leave the workforce when we get married and have kids and therefore create a higher dental demand was a little too 1950s-sexual-politics for my taste.

And I may change my views a little when I do have kids (by the way, I'm 26, soon to be married, and we're already talking about when we want to start a family - so that maternal instinct is already in overdrive here haha), but I will want to maintain this career that I have worked so hard for so long to achieve. Perhaps I'm naive, but I honestly believe that I can have this full time job and be a full time parent and raise respectable members of society. Plus, we'll have 3 sets of grandparents if we decide we don't want to go the daycare route.

My point (getting back to the original post) is that I don't believe having more women dentists will affect the demand at all. Even if we assume that women will take a few years off while the kids are young, not everyone has kids at the same time, not everyone has the same number of kids, not everyone spends the same amount of time off with them. Therefore, there will never be this simultaneous massive exodus from the dental field that would cause an increase in demand.
 
I don't know that anyone was belittling motherhood, I think it was more defending our role as women in modern society. The idea that we will automatically want to leave the workforce when we get married and have kids and therefore create a higher dental demand was a little too 1950s-sexual-politics for my taste.

My point (getting back to the original post) is that I don't believe having more women dentists will affect the demand at all. Even if we assume that women will take a few years off while the kids are young, not everyone has kids at the same time, not everyone has the same number of kids, not everyone spends the same amount of time off with them. Therefore, there will never be this simultaneous massive exodus from the dental field that would cause an increase in demand.

:thumbup:
 
I don't know that anyone was belittling motherhood, I think it was more defending our role as women in modern society. The idea that we will automatically want to leave the workforce when we get married and have kids and therefore create a higher dental demand was a little too 1950s-sexual-politics for my taste.

And I may change my views a little when I do have kids (by the way, I'm 26, soon to be married, and we're already talking about when we want to start a family - so that maternal instinct is already in overdrive here haha), but I will want to maintain this career that I have worked so hard for so long to achieve. Perhaps I'm naive, but I honestly believe that I can have this full time job and be a full time parent and raise respectable members of society. Plus, we'll have 3 sets of grandparents if we decide we don't want to go the daycare route.

My point (getting back to the original post) is that I don't believe having more women dentists will affect the demand at all. Even if we assume that women will take a few years off while the kids are young, not everyone has kids at the same time, not everyone has the same number of kids, not everyone spends the same amount of time off with them. Therefore, there will never be this simultaneous massive exodus from the dental field that would cause an increase in demand.
+1!!!!!!!!!!!!

And for you all who have yet to have kids: Just wait and see, it's not that hard, you can have your cake and eat it too!
 
all i know is my parents didnt spend 100s of thousands of dollars on my education at this point & move from the middeast to raise their kids in america, for me to just blow it all when i get married and not have a career after theyve done/continue to do all they have for my education to make sure I will have a stable career as a girl.
if i wanted to do that i wouldve gotten married and popd out babies at 18 back in the motherland & not even been raised in america. being a dentist is an opportunity for me, not a given or something commonplace, the commonplace thing for girls in my culture is to be a mom as the end all be all. id preferably like to do both--have my cake & eat it too!! ;-)

as i said i think it depends on the girls mentality & someone who isnt 1st generation in the US like me & is perhaps a 6th, 7th etc regular american girl would have completley diff views than me.

to each his own.
 
I don't know that anyone was belittling motherhood, I think it was more defending our role as women in modern society. The idea that we will automatically want to leave the workforce when we get married and have kids and therefore create a higher dental demand was a little too 1950s-sexual-politics for my taste.

YES. Thank you for this post, Just Peachy.

I fully believe that there should be more parental attention/care paid to kids. However, the assumption that it should come from women who must leave their jobs to stay home is what bothering me. Why can't men do the same.

The situation is very much dependent on each family's situation. Personally, I think the most economically viable method is for the lesser-earning partner to become the stay-at-home parent (if the family determines there needs to be one). Yes, this might be the mother. However, it could just as easily be the father, especially if the woman's a dentist.
 
all i know is my parents didnt spend 100s of thousands of dollars on my education at this point & move from the middeast to raise their kids in america, for me to just blow it all when i get married and not have a career after theyve done/continue to do all they have for my education to make sure I will have a stable career as a girl.
if i wanted to do that i wouldve gotten married and popd out babies at 18 back in the motherland & not even been raised in america. being a dentist is an opportunity for me, not a given or something commonplace, the commonplace thing for girls in my culture is to be a mom as the end all be all. id preferably like to do both--have my cake & eat it too!! ;-)

as i said i think it depends on the girls mentality & someone who isnt 1st generation in the US like me & is perhaps a 6th, 7th etc regular american girl would have completley diff views than me.

to each his own.


Wish my parents spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on my education.. man I would be on a gravy train with biscuit wheels as soon as I graduate! I would even have enough time to be a stay at home dad.. which sounds appealing but unrealistic given the debt im going to bring on my family!
 
all i know is my parents didnt spend 100s of thousands of dollars on my education at this point & move from the middeast to raise their kids in america, for me to just blow it all when i get married and not have a career after theyve done/continue to do all they have for my education to make sure I will have a stable career as a girl.
if i wanted to do that i wouldve gotten married and popd out babies at 18 back in the motherland & not even been raised in america. being a dentist is an opportunity for me, not a given or something commonplace, the commonplace thing for girls in my culture is to be a mom as the end all be all. id preferably like to do both--have my cake & eat it too!! ;-)

as i said i think it depends on the girls mentality & someone who isnt 1st generation in the US like me & is perhaps a 6th, 7th etc regular american girl would have completley diff views than me.

to each his own.

hey... can you parents adopt me?
 
no sorry dentalworks theyre all mine. i know its rare, but it is what it is !!! wuv them they the bestt<3
 
+1!!!!!!!!!!!!

And for you all who have yet to have kids: Just wait and see, it's not that hard, you can have your cake and eat it too!

HUH!? You're kidding right? Having kids is "not that hard?!" Wow, as a father of two kids I don't think I could possibly disagree more with that statement.
 
HUH!? You're kidding right? Having kids is "not that hard?!" Wow, as a father of two kids I don't think I could possibly disagree more with that statement.

What you talking about.... making kids is the easiest thing :laugh:
 
Parenting is a whole new world. It's too hard to predict what you think you'll do until it happens. It's a big deal. Lots of biology and innate mammalian things go on there. (I'm being silly, but really.)

My wife LOVES teaching. Everyone told her she would not want to come back to teaching after having a baby or that she would take off several years or something. She waited to see, as did I. I had quit my career to focus solely on this path, but was ready to go back to work if she chose to stay home. She loves this little guy, but she went back to work.

So besides full-time school, I'm a stay-at-home dad. And I love it. This is some quality time that I believe will make a difference down the road with my relationship. Mind you, it does feel like a full-time job.

In short, it's fun to plan and predict, but you won't know until you're there. It's another great perk of dentistry having that flexibility to come and from the career as you choose.

I don't think there will be a shortage of dentists due to any of it. It's the 2nd law of dental equilibrium.
 
YES. Thank you for this post, Just Peachy.

I fully believe that there should be more parental attention/care paid to kids. However, the assumption that it should come from women who must leave their jobs to stay home is what bothering me. Why can't men do the same.

The situation is very much dependent on each family's situation. Personally, I think the most economically viable method is for the lesser-earning partner to become the stay-at-home parent (if the family determines there needs to be one). Yes, this might be the mother. However, it could just as easily be the father, especially if the woman's a dentist.

I'm not sure parenting decisions should be made based on what the most "economically viable method" is.

All I know is that if my Dad had been a stay-at-home Dad, that would have been a disaster.
 
When it comes to parenting and marital relationships I think people just have to do what works best for them and their kids.
 
But what do y'all think? How does/will 50% of women dental grads effect dental demands 5, 10, 25 years in the future? Ladies please give input here!! :D

Since the number of women in professional schools has been around for a long time all you need to do is look at the present. Countries where women have been the predominant gender in many professions do not appears to have suffered any ill effects.
 
I hear these countries are suffering from a micromanagement pandemic... just something I heard.


Since the number of women in professional schools has been around for a long time all you need to do is look at the present. Countries where women have been the predominant gender in many professions do not appears to have suffered any ill effects.
 
I haven't had a child come out of me nor do I have a vagina, so I'll get back to the original question about shortages due to women. The comments from the dentists I shadowed/know have said the next 10-20 years will be very good for young MEN dentists due to the volatility of women dentists' careers. They have stated to me that because the majority of women don't own their practices, when all of the old grandpa-dentists finally retire and want to sell their practices in the next 10-20 years there will be too much supply and no demand. If you continue with their reasoning, who is gonna be there to snatch up their large, productive practices? NOT associates that wanna work 30 hours a week and have nothing to do with running a business, aka women
 
I haven't had a child come out of me nor do I have a vagina, so I'll get back to the original question about shortages due to women. The comments from the dentists I shadowed/know have said the next 10-20 years will be very good for young MEN dentists due to the volatility of women dentists' careers. They have stated to me that because the majority of women don't own their practices, when all of the old grandpa-dentists finally retire and want to sell their practices in the next 10-20 years there will be too much supply and no demand. If you continue with their reasoning, who is gonna be there to snatch up their large, productive practices? NOT associates that wanna work 30 hours a week and have nothing to do with running a business, aka women
Seriously? I bet those dentists all have housewives...

I'm a mother and I will be a solo practitioner. I know just as many female dentists who own their own practice as male dentists who are associates.
 
Instead of worrying about how the future of women look because they have to dutifully care for their own offspring, what we should really be worrying about is why, we as men don't even contribute anywhere close to 50% of the child raising responsibilities.

Man up and step up the game please. :bang:
 
I haven't had a child come out of me nor do I have a vagina, so I'll get back to the original question about shortages due to women. The comments from the dentists I shadowed/know have said the next 10-20 years will be very good for young MEN dentists due to the volatility of women dentists' careers. They have stated to me that because the majority of women don't own their practices, when all of the old grandpa-dentists finally retire and want to sell their practices in the next 10-20 years there will be too much supply and no demand. If you continue with their reasoning, who is gonna be there to snatch up their large, productive practices? NOT associates that wanna work 30 hours a week and have nothing to do with running a business, aka women

I have been told this as well by several dentists, including a female dentist who owns her own practice.
It is true that on average woman who choose to have kids and a dental career work less hours than men with kids and woman without kids.
I have no problem with female dentists with kids who work less hours. That's what makes dentistry such a good profession for woman who want to have a family and live comfortably at the same time.
Will this cause a shortage of dentists? I don't think so. Someone will pick up the slack. The person who wants to work 50+ hours, man or woman.
 
Instead of worrying about how the future of women look because they have to dutifully care for their own offspring, what we should really be worrying about is why, we as men don't even contribute anywhere close to 50% of the child raising responsibilities.

Man up and step up the game please. :bang:

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
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