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Discussion in 'Dental' started by TylerDMD, Nov 17, 2005.
no or yes
I don't know if I should laugh at you for being so idiotic or bash you upside the head with my 20 pound biochemistry textbook. You have absolutely no idea what in God's name you are talking about. Do you even think before you type?
Women are here for much more then "making babies" and some women want to do a lot more then that. Some want to have a career and a family life. Women can work FULL time as a dentist and have a family. This is not "taking away from the precious male jobs."
The female dentists that I have met work FULL time, they are not just sitting around being pregnant. Their husbands stay home and help raise their children. Wow, I guess those husbands must be selfish then, giving up their careers to help raise their children. Considering one was a dentist and gave up his seat at his and his wife's practice because she was seen as a more empathetic dentist then he was.
I'm a woman and I plan on going into a full time general practice when I graduate. I will have children and I will work full-time. I am not selfish and I do not think of myself as detracting from the greater good of society. I think that as a woman people will trust more then a man, they will be more comfortable discussing treatment options with me.
You talk about the greater good of "society". Well, how about you drop out of dental school and go do something else with your time that doesn't involve being sympathetic or understanding. Because if you are unsympathetic and so closeminded, you'll have a very low patient retention rate.
Yeah, you are right. Women should work full time so men would be jobless.
Last time I checked they made 50% of the slots in medschool too.
Yay!! more girls to be around, though most of these females have more testosterone than the males in the class (i'm not talking about hirsutism here, more like in terms of confidence and drive)
Man - its obvious you got some deeper issues here.
You have an inherent hatred towards women. You clearly do not view men and women as equals
1) Sounds like you're bitter towards girls because you can't get any. Rejection hurts bro, but it happens to the best of us
2) Either that, or you are some kind of repressed closet-homosexual. You are jealous from the sight of all these girls dating your fellow classmen.
I mean who the hell wants more guys instead of hot chicks in their class?
It's sad dude - really.
That only gets me one step closer to my 5 car garage, loaded with a 7 series BMW, Mercedes Benz SL55, Range Rover, Porsche turbo, and Ferrari 360.
Amen - But dont you think the 360 is losing touch? I say swap the 360 for the 430 Monza and the 7 series BMW with the new M5.
Darling, you have a long way to go in life to learn. Have children and then post this again. Don't you love your mother? Like or not, men and women are aqual. Make sure you talk to your mother, sisters, and any female in your family about it, OK? How could you put all these women down? I hope you come out of it ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you living here in USA or are you a Taliban member? Because you do sound like one of them. Men like you are just very afraid of women.....you should move out of US when a woman becomes president then--now that will make you very unhappy.
Grow up and be a man....real men DO NOT put down women. There's no reason why to feel so little around a class of 50% females. Good luck!
I assume form your stated concern regarding the shortage of dentists you will be working in a very underserved location. Hopefullly it will be very very rural, because I think your hairy knuckles might stick out among the more urban populations. Seriously, is this an affectation or are you realy such a throw back? I mean you are the Beta Max of men. They still make people like you? What kind of castration complex do you have? Paging Dr. Frued...
Anyway, please please stop posting...It is better to keep your mouth shut and be assumed an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt. This advise comes to late for you, but maybe you can save others from your same fate, you slack jawed idiot.
I have to stick up for a couple of things the OP said but not all. According to some statistics that I saw, I think it was from the ADA, more male Dentists work full time than female so he is absolutely correct. I know that women are not only here for making babies and I know that many of them plan on working full time for the next 40 years, however I do believe that many more women will end up working part time in their fourties and early fifties than their male counterparts. And a big reason for this is due to family. I am not saying that more slots should be left open for men, women should have all the opportunities that men should. As far as "the greater good for society" I hope that the OP is not going into private practice and he will provide all the care he can to underprivilaged people in the free clinic.
I for one don't care if my dentist has lots of babies or not... just as long as she isn't having them AND working on my mouth at the same time. that could get pretty messy. i also think there are plenty of guys out there getting into dentistry so that they can work three or four days a week and then go play golf.
who cares? go open your own dental school and set a quota for female students all you like. quit your whining and welcome to my douchebag list.
Here's a quick lesson in dental school economics: Back in the 70's, dental schools were graduating mostly male classes and coincidentally, there was a glut of dentists...it was quite difficult for graduates to find enough patients to get their practices going. Now fast forward to 2005, dental schools are graduating classes that are 50/50 male/female. It is interesting to note that there is also a huge shortage of dentists now. I believe this is thanks to the dental schools. They aren't stupid...they now that statistically, most women who graduate dental school are not going to practice full time until retirement. The dental schools rely heavily on donations from alumni to keep their schools looking nice and they know that most of these alumni are dentists with very profitable practices who likely have sons who wish to follow in their fathers footsteps. Now the dental schools know that if they continue graduating female dentists who will most likely retire early or at least not practice full time, this is going to continue the dentist shortage, which will in turn keep dentists in demand and make things considerably easier for a father son dental practice. This will keep the alumni happy with the school and they are more apt to be generous in their donations to their alma mater. Bottomline is that the statistics don't lie and any way you look at it, most women aren't going to practice full time..which is in no way a reflection on their intelligence or ability as dentists, its just how it is.
Talk about a post touching on a sensitive spot...
Interesting to hear others viewpoints on what was once considered a controversial topic, but has now (I would like to believe) become more or less a non-issue. Some of the ladies in my class are dang good clinicians, and a heckuva lot more compassionate in some respects than us men. ISeems interesting that some people get so fired up in response to this whole issue though... seems to fan the flames more than put them out.
In case you are from another planet, most dentist's are part-time, regardless of their sperm or egg donating abilities.
Most dentist only work a 3-4 day work week. So, for the "greater good of society", why don't you petition to congress to force dentist's to work on Fridays!!!!
Well, said--I haven't seen or met a dentist that works 5 or 6 days a week.
Father-Son together? Ha! My older friend Dr F. here in Florida is hiring his son who just passed the FL board to work 4 days a week. The kid is only 25 (did the 7 yr program) doesn't have student loans...so why would he work more than 4 days a week?
I have a relative starting a practice in CO and things are going well for him and he and the other dentist are working 5 days a week, but are not booked 100% every day. Their goal is to work 4 days a week each.
Money is not everything for everybody. Once you make decent money, why work like a dog for yourself?
And if women are working less than men, hey how about you lazy men out there help more at home, so that your woman can do more things?
I have a Mr mom at home, so I'm lucky to have an open minded man at home who is comfortable with himself.
TylerDMD. Wow, I assume you're going to work in Alaska without pay since you're so worried about this shortage of dentists.
I really have to say the problem isn't necessarily a shortage of dentists it's the access to care. I believe NJ is the #2 state in terms of greatest number of dentists when comparing practitioners to the population. Yet when I go to certain cities I see people with two teeth when there's 5 dentists around the corner and a dental school 5 minutes away. People do not always have the money and/or the opportunity to travel in order to take care of their basic dental needs. Whether or not a woman or man is working 2 days or 7 it doesn't mean people who need the care are going to get to them.
Talking about all this woman stuff you're probably gonna say I don't belong in dental school cuz I'm a black woman. Thanks for setting dental students 2 steps backwards.
As a woman relatively new to practicing dentistry, I am single and I support myself from my dental income. I work 3 days per week because I feel like it, not because of my gender or because I have kids or a husband with a huge income. I am glad to be in a profession where I don't have to work 5 days/week on someone else's clock. I like setting my own schedule and doing whatever I want on the 4 days I don't work.
(BTW, 3 days/week = 30+ hours/week for me, so that works!)
Once they wear pretty short skirts I'm all for it
I am a woman and I will be working 6 days/week very soon (about 60 hours).
If all goes well, I may own a practice within a year from now and possibly look into acquiring more than one at a later point in time. I also intend on getting involved with academia sometime in the future. And I even want to practice dentistry abroad in third world countries on my "holidays".
There is a current trend of more women postponing marriage and choosing NOT to have ANY kids at all. I am devoting myself COMPLETELY to my career. If I get married and have kids, I will be singing a different tune but I don't see that happening any time soon. Family would definitely take priority if that did happen and I would then work part time as an associate.
The only aspect I take exception to here is the idea that you can be a "full-time" dentist and a mommy too. These are both full-time jobs and are mutually exclusive. Unless being a mommy to you means carrying the baby for 9 months and handing it off to a rent-a-mommy while you go back to work. My older sister does this, and guess who her kids run to when they hurt their elbows...the nanny, not dear old mom. And her kids speak Philipino better than Engrish.
I also don't see why women take offense at their ability to do the most important profession on earth...being a mommy. And I also think that dad's can't do the job as well as moms, although I'm sure there are exceptions. I slave about 100 hours a week as a resident, but my wife works much harder than I do as a "lowly" stay-at-home mom. And her job is much more important than anything I do at the hospital. At least I get a day off each week and can turn off my pager sometimes. She doesn't get those luxeries.
If you want to be a full-time career dentist, that's fine. But don't think you can be the best mom also. Both will likely suffer. Women who say different are just looking for something to prove or think "confidence and drive" has something to do with their job.
I AGREE with you 100%, Toofache32! and I am not at all offended.
Even though I have earned three university degrees, I would definitely consider being devoted to motherhood if that is in store for me sometime in the future. I would give up being a full time dentist to raise the kids in the first few years of their life, at least, which are the most vital ones for mother-child bonding.
What I really abhor are those feminists who hate stay-at-home moms and say , "Women can be equally successful in their full time careers and domestic life as a wife/mother." THAT IS FALSE! That is one of THE most misleading ideas proposed by the feminist movement. Sure, women have equal rights but don't fool yourself into thinking that you can have a 9-5 job 5 days a week, be completely attentive and have the energy to be involved with your child's rearing and education AND be a decent wife! THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE! Either your job is going to suffer or you children and husband will suffer or very often both will be negatively affected. I'd rather earn less money than have regrets many years down the road when my children leave the nest and I realize how I missed out on a lot of the memories that were witnessed by nannies/daycares (such as your kids' first words and other cute things).
Everyone who knows me realizes that my mother had and still has a very powerful influence on me. As you may have noticed in some of my other posts, I quote her very often. My mom was a stay-at-home mom up until I was at the end of primary school. Even though she worked later on, she did on a part time basis. In our early years, we could have have benefited from the extra income but my mom knew that being a mother was far MORE important than "keeping up with the Jones" (ie. having the nicest cars in the neighborhood, unnecessary luxuries and many trips). In the end, my mom has had no regrets and to this day still says that being a mother was the most important thing for her. And by coincidence, isn't it any wonder that my dad is a happy man too and my parents have been happily married for over 30 years? There is a reason why...my mom knew her priorities.
What irritates me are those people who have kids for the sake of having kids and then leave the responsibilty of raising kids in the hands of the nannies/day, ESPECIALLY when the husband earns enough money for the woman to be a stay-at-home mom or work part time. Don't you want to share your values with your kids? Don't you want to teach things to your kids? Don't you want your child to grow up to be a functional and contributing member of society ?
Being a mother IS the most important job in the world. You are participating in the development of a future citizen of society. Perhaps you will have a hand in the development of an important mover/shaker who will make the world a better place. What can be more important than that? Then again, I believe that not every woman has a maternal/nurturing instinct. I have met women who can't stand their kids and even admit that which I find quite sad. There is nothing sadder than an unwanted child in the world. Some women are just greedy and materialistic, will never abandon their full time work and don't give a s**t about their kids.
Good, we need more academic people. And not the kind that do it because they couldn't hack it in the real world.
I honestly love teaching and being involved in inspiring young minds. I guess I get that from my mom because she is a teacher. As a teenager, I used to be a math tutor with the Kumon Mathematics Institute ( a Japanese system which I studied ). When I babysat, I used to also enjoy supervising kids' homework, correcting it and explaining errors.
When I was older, my parents would ask me to help with my younger brothers' school work and I enjoyed that too.
Funny....my wife like to correct my errors too.
Including your grammatical errors? LOL! my wife likes to correct my errors too ...Does she crack the whip?
not being biased or anything but I'm a 30 year old female DDS & I've been working in a dental office where pts come & ask for the "female" dentist in the office (I work with an other male DDS),not only because I developed
a wonderful reputation over the last 2.5 years that I worked in this office,but because most of the patients are more comfortable seeing a DDS with a softer hand & a more listening ear (come on! they are already horrified of the idea of scheduling a dentist appt)..& nothing makes me happier than to learn about my pts rescheduling their appts to see me if I have an emergency & referring their family & freinds to see me,the "female doctor"...no hard feelings Dr L (my coworker)...needless to say,I'm also happily married with a family.
If you spelt that on purpose as I think...I'm not sure many caught that but it was pretty damn funny.
To the OP. You have the right to believe whatever you want. People choose to have different careers for different reasons. You have yours, others have theirs. You do not have the right to judge others. I'm quite tired of people imposing their beliefs on others. Being a full time mom and a full time 'worker' may work for some and not for others. Being a mom may not be the BEST job for everybody. People just need to stop generalizing. We all have our priorities. I'm a woman, I will be a dentist (by God's grace)--a really good one too. If i choose to get married and have a family, I will be a great mom. I will handle my business, thank you very much! And how i do it is NONE of your business! Take your issues and inferiority complex elsewhere.
I'm not "judging" others. It's not like I said anyone is going to hell. This isn't a religious thing, it's a logistical thing....how can you be in 2 places at once? I'm not sure how you get off with the "inferiority complex" comment after I just spent a whole post putting women on a pedestal and praising how much better they are than men in some areas. I agree that how your raise your children is none of my business, but you're not addressing the issue with that kind of response. Who will be raising your kids while you're at work? That's the issue. When you have kids, ask them if they would prefer to be raised by their own mommy or by a rented mommy.
I never said women can't be dentists or that women have to be mommies. I just believe that the 2 are mutually exclusive unless you want to make compromises.
Subtle humor is the best, IMO.
lol, most of the girls in my class would think being a dentist is taking the easy way out of working...
now residents being moms/wives (there's a ton of them) thats a little more difficult
You're the man ; ) Thanks for appreciating women Your mother must have raised you well!
if it happens in your office it must be universal, because that is statistically significant
When I get my hair cut I always ask for the skinny person because I don't want fat hanging all over me, haha
Well said BUT there are women that for many reasons HAVE/MUST go back to work. Some becuase they have huge students loans, or what ever.
I did get your point, just wanted to say that we can't judge women that go back to work, or that have a baby right before starting residency and have to be away from home for 80 hrs a week
I've been home for 7 yrs! No pay check from me, no benefits, no raises, no work parties, no nothing. My kids well being is first and financially it doesn't make sense that I work. So here I am trying to finish my undergrad at 30+.....I spent all my 20's doing diapers, cleaning vomit and what not, nursing or pumping, gaining weight/loosing weight I would not change my life at all, but I do have the need to achieve my education. I'm in school when my kids are in school....it's a sacrifice that I'm doing for them and I'm 100% happy to do it. I still live better than the people that have 2 working parents
There are careers that one can not stop working and a lot of men can not support the family expenses. This is after looking into cutting a lot of expenses.
I hope things change one day, so that women that spent a lot of yrs studying can work a little after having children. The problem is that day care is so expensive, that for some women that is not an option This is why we need more women in charge
I know people that don't seem to care about leaving their 6 weeks old baby with a nanny for 10 hrs a day and then talk about quality time? How can you recover 10 HRS a day in 2 hrs at night? I have friend wife of an ENT Dr who makes over $200K a yr---the wife is working FULL time becuase she can not stand staying home with a 2 yr old
And last but not least, there are women that suffer depression by staying at home all day. It's really hard to stay home, but one has to always remember the important job we are doing, how lucky we are to stay home, and be creative....still some women need meds and all to deal with it
My husband works from home full time, and I'm waiting for my kids to be older to go to dental school. I'm also planning to have grandparents love and help near. By the time I'm done with dental school my kids will be teenagers! Wow! This is all working out for me, but it doesn't work like this for other women.
I'm with toofache. btw, I caught the "engrish" joke- funny as hell. anyway, to duh, it's your business now, but it won't be yours alone when your kids are raised and they resent you for not being there or spending more time with them. once you're a mom the way you spend your time shows your priorities, at least that is how most kids interpret their mothers' time management. It will be their business too.
You think like my husband--this is why I married & are still married! My husband is a Mr. MOM, he's the exception. Not only is he a man doing everything with the kids, house work, laundry, and cooking AND is super happy abou it--but he's also Iranian. Who knew?
OK Take a deep breath. Now read the first sentence of my response. TO THE OP, meaning original poster, so all the 'YOUs' and 'YOURs' are meant for the OP. As for judging being a 'religious' thing, no its not. You could be an atheist and still 'judge' someone. Now note, I said nothing about whether I will be working full time/part-time. I know I can't be at 2 places at a time. All I know is, when the time comes, I will know how to organize myself to get the max possible out of all my options--career and family. Both my parents worked full time, and we did have nannies. Not all kids get stuck on the nanny becos mum isn't around. My mum devoted ALL her extra time to us, and we appreciate her ability to balance a full time job and us kids, NB, we did all our chores ourselves, nanny or no nanny, we cleaned house, did laundry etc. The nanny was just there to make sure there was an adult in the house. I come from a community where not just the parents of a child are responsible for raising the child-- I'm African. When I have kids it will be up to me and my family to take care of the new members of OUR family. I guess the difference in culture is often ignored when people talk about women having full time jobs and raising excellent children. I was raised by my parents, grand parents, aunts and uncles, my childhood was very balanced and rich with experiences. I always had family around me. Mum didn't have to worry about having it all--great job and great kids.
I just thought it would be interesting to add this:
I understand how people who are raised in a culture like that of the US would see potential problems with full-time mommyhood and a full time career at the same time. I've seen the effect of poor parenting on kids.
I am not here to bash anybody's beliefs or whatever. I believe one of the advantages of a forum like this is that we can share a lot of info and learn from eachother. I believe community based-childraising is a better option, but that's just my belief, that's why I can decide to have a full time career and still raise good children.
The US seems to be more (for lack of a better term) 'Individualistic,'-- the independence, the freedom to decide one's destiny, pull YOURSELF by YOUR boot straps and all that, and it works for Americans (and me too! that's why i'm here!). I may be wrong but i believe one of the consequences of that attitude is that many times, individuals are left to handle all their problems/responsibilities alone and thus cannot have the 'best of both worlds.'
Different societies have different ways of handling important things like parenting and we sacrifice some comfort or opportunities for stuff like that. Like where i'm from everybody is in your business cos the family is huge and we are all so closely interacting. But another thing about the huge community based family sysytem as I call it is, that we dont have nursing homes/old people's homes--our reasoning, when you're a kid everybody takes care of you, when they're old you take care of them, nursing home is not an option. Of course with that comes a different type of responsibility.
Whatever our choices, we have advantages and disadvantages.
yeah, we really believe you
ucsf's incoming class has way more women than men
I am an equal opportunity friend: women and minorities strongly encouraged to apply.
This post got me thinking.
I have not met one female dentist, yet. Quite odd, if you ask me.
I don't know what to say to all this women working talk. I've always thought it was a bad idea, but that's what happened when we gave them the right to vote. I think Lincoln never should have freed women from sufferage.
If women want to pull this sneaky carreer stuff its their business. Nobody said you had to like it. If you don't like it just stay clear of them. I probably would never go for a dentist as a wife. Don't get me wrong, I LOOOVE the ladies!! They rev my engine! But I'd have questions for any woman anywhere who wanted a big time career dentistry or whatever. By the way, I LOOOVE the ladies!
Wanna share those questions?