women in interventional cardio

[sweetbunny]

is it possible to have a balanced family life and a career in int. cardio?
i don't see many women in this specialty (interventional)? is it because it's very hard to have life outside work?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[dragonfly99]

Multiple reasons.
1) not many women in cards in general (20% or less of cards fellows)
so it drives down the numbers
2) takes a long time to become one (extra years of training), and as you noted it's not as easy a lifestyle as noninterventional cardiology in general
3) "macho" atmosphere in cath labs and among some cath and other cards attendings can lead to a "glass ceiling" effect where women just can't get above a certain level, and interventional would be one of the areas that is a little harder to get in to
Things are changing though. I have met several interventional cardiologists who are women. Almost all these are younger types (40's or younger).

 

[sweetbunny]

Multiple reasons.
1) not many women in cards in general (20% or less of cards fellows)
so it drives down the numbers
2) takes a long time to become one (extra years of training), and as you noted it's not as easy a lifestyle as noninterventional cardiology in general
3) "macho" atmosphere in cath labs and among some cath and other cards attendings can lead to a "glass ceiling" effect where women just can't get above a certain level, and interventional would be one of the areas that is a little harder to get in to
Things are changing though. I have met several interventional cardiologists who are women. Almost all these are younger types (40's or younger).

are they married, have kids? or are they single, work only types?
did you get a sense if they were happy with life in general, or more cynical exhausted types?
thank you.

 

[david713]

I just retired from cardiology after 22 years in private practice and 6.5 in academics.
Thus here is the voice of authority. First, there is not a "glass ceiling" whatever that is. If you are good, you can get a fellowship. If you do good in the fellowship then you will get a good position. If you are fair then go into practice. Remember that in applying, you are competing against the world.
As to the hours, they are bad. I never saw a complete movie while in private practice. My day would start a 5:30am and end about 7:30pm. My nights were always interupted. You can not be a single mom unless you have someone living with you. You need an understand husband if you are married.
The cath lab personel are people. When men and women get in a closed room then the conversation can become rough. If this bothers you become a priest.
I can truthfully say that I would have given anything to have had a woman as a partner. They bring something to the practice that a man lacks and the patients know this. They also have weaknesses that the patients sense so a male partner is a must.
Of course, this all depends on the fact that you don't fall for the feminiest bunk, desire to work and maintain that certain special quality that set women apart from men (a good thing).

 

[sweetbunny]

I just retired from cardiology after 22 years in private practice and 6.5 in academics.
Thus here is the voice of authority. First, there is not a "glass ceiling" whatever that is. If you are good, you can get a fellowship. If you do good in the fellowship then you will get a good position. If you are fair then go into practice. Remember that in applying, you are competing against the world.
As to the hours, they are bad. I never saw a complete movie while in private practice. My day would start a 5:30am and end about 7:30pm. My nights were always interupted. You can not be a single mom unless you have someone living with you. You need an understand husband if you are married.
The cath lab personel are people. When men and women get in a closed room then the conversation can become rough. If this bothers you become a priest.
I can truthfully say that I would have given anything to have had a woman as a partner. They bring something to the practice that a man lacks and the patients know this. They also have weaknesses that the patients sense so a male partner is a must.
Of course, this all depends on the fact that you don't fall for the feminiest bunk, desire to work and maintain that certain special quality that set women apart from men (a good thing).

thank you so much for the description of your life, david. it is very important to me to hear and know about such experiences. although your hours were bad, have you had a yearly vacation time? the way you describe it, my future as I see it--> being in interventional cards, having a surgeon husband, and having kids, sounds almost impossible. with the combined salary and all, we prolly be able to afford a babysitter/many sitters in fact, but the children will be lucky to see us on sundays is that a correct impression?

 

[sweetbunny]

another question: what makes int. cardio different from general surgery (for example) in terms of female presence. there is a significant female presence in surgery (to my surprise I shadowed many female plastic surgeons/general surgeons in private practice. and their lifestyle isn't horrible. they all had life outside of work, and were really feminine/beautiful however, I never saw/shadowed a single female int. cardiologist. is that an unlucky coincindence, or is int. cardio much more difficult (hours wise, etc.) than surgery, and that is the reason women shy away from this field?

 

[dragonfly99]

sweetbunny
There is female interventional cardiologist in my academic cardiology program. she also has a baby. She had the baby before doing interventional fellowship...was doing a "chief year"/extra year of cardio fellowship.
Her husband is an ER doc. So a 2 doc family, they make it work. However, she does have parents-in-law in town. I think the hours and duties will vary with private practice vs. academics, and where you want to work. For example, some Veterans hospitals have cath labs that do interventions, but not on nights or weekends. Our VA actually has an excellent cath lab (I know you are all thinking, "no way!", but they are). Attending there is a man who is GREAT and the techs and nurses are great also. I do think such a job would have better hours than what the previous poster is describing. Still, you have to realize that with cardiology (especially interventional) you will take call, and more call than some other specialties.

I think question #1
-Do you want to do cardiology or surgery?
then question #2 would be
-If cardiology, then is it general, electrophys, interventional, imaging, etc.

I wouldn't ditch cardiology (either general or interventional) because you think you can't do it because you are a woman. General surgery is not easy either...you have to work hard at either of those two fields.

I didn't mean to offend with my "glass ceiling" comment, but I do stand by it. I have been quite successful and so have some other women in cardiology, but I also know that cards and some other fields within medicine still tend to be harder for women to enter and some people (not only physicians but some others too) harbor prejudices about what are "appropriate" jobs for women to have and make assumptions about women docs and women applicants for fellowship/residency that are based on prejudices and not on facts. I think this will continue for several more years, but already it is getting better and better.

 

[Myostatin]

I know a number of female interventional cardiology attendings and fellows, who are well adjusted and remain feminine. Is it possible to be an interventionalist and have a well balanced life ?(regardless of male or female) ... in general no, espeically in private practice. It may be more feasilble in academics if you're not set on becoming the director of the cath lab, etc.

In interventional cardiology, espeically in private practice, most things you get called for are emergencies and will require you to come in. There's lots of emergencies in g-surg as well, so I'd be suprised if female general surgeons have it any easier than interventional cardiologists. If you're talking about surgical subspecialties like plastics, clearly you're going to be dealing with elective cases and fewer true emergencies.

I've never seen evidence of a "glass ceiling" for women - Medicine is much more of a meritocracy than most other professions.

 

[david713]

It is very difficult to give advice as to going into interventional cards because I don't know your ability for time management. That is the one thing they don't teach yet is the most important. My advice would be that if cardiology is your thing, then do it. As you have a family, you will develop different priorities. You may find that you like doing the kid thing more than seeing old farts at 2 am. If so, you can work it out with your partners. Only real jerks would give you difficulty on cutting back or having fewer days in the lab. You ultimately would not want to be with those people anyway. If you found that intervention was too intervening then drop to diagnostics or non-invasive. The whole thing is to have fun.

As to the difference between surgery and cardiology. Surgery is basically for the brain dead and those challenged by a computer, math and the ability to think. I am not being mean. I have many surgery friends who have gotten over their god complex and will now admit as much. A good rule of thumb is that if you like working with your hands then both fields are open. Cardiologist usually are differentiated by their ability to use technicals such as a computer or ECHO machine. They also like the challenge of a tough diagnosis.

I would definitely advise holding off on a family until you are settled. Their is a substantial stress on a relationship in training and after training it is not unusual to find a different person in bed one day and nothing else had changed. So get to know your husband in the world of practice first, if you can.

Again on the glass ceiling. I am one of the people that decided on who came into the program. We weighted women more than African Americans, then came everyone else. Anglo-Saxon men would come in last before we started taking foreign grads. Of course that is if every thing is equal. What they look at is your test scores and personal recs. Not the generic recs. Papers put you at the top of the class. People who were enthusiastic and knowledgeable were looked at very hard but if they were too pushy you went to the back of the line. By that I mean people that would hang out in cardiology all the time and seem to be doing so to be seen. You can tell the difference between someone really interested and someone trying to brown nose.

 

[sweetbunny]

thank you everybody for great responses
i have a long road ahead...