wondering about my credentials

[luckygirl]

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Hi guys,
I was hoping someone can give me some feedback on MD/PhD programs. I am applying to some, but I am not sure if my credentials are "on par." I really want to go into academic medicine and research, but I don't have a specific area of research interest as of yet. I want to learn and see a broader scope of research before I decide.

I have tons of research experience (mostly with bacteria causing enteric diseases), was an art major in college but took a pre-med postbac program. I have a 34 R on the MCAT and a cum GPA of 3.6, post bac GPA of 3.9.
I'm applying to MD/PhD programs at Temple, Drexel and Jefferson. I'm also applying to MD programs elsewhere, because I am not sure how successful a candidate I would be in a combined degree progam at schools like OHSC or Colorado. I'm a PA resident, by the way.

Do you think I have a shot at MD/PhD programs at any other schools? Will my residency be an issue if I apply outside of PA?

Thanks,
LG

 

[surge]

Yes and no, respectively.

I honestly think you're not giving yourself enough credit.

Your numbers are perfectly fine, and if your research experience was solid (not necessarily great science and publications, but having a creative role and contributing a lot to the projects - see other posts on this), you should have no problems being competitive at ANY school. Seriosly, there's a misconception that you have to have a 40, 4.0 and some first author publications (in Science or Nature, preferably) to have a chance of getting into the top schools.

Based on what you stated, you're fine. Shoot higher.

 

[Neuronix]

I want to back surge up. State residency is not looked at in MD/PhD admissions. Your stats are also good for MD/PhD.

I completely agree with what surge said... You are not giving yourself enough credit! Apply to a number of top-20 programs and I bet you will will get into at least one of them.

If you want to talk more about this, feel free to IM me at Neuronix2. You have tons of potential. Good luck!

 

[luckygirl]

Thanks so much for the advice, guys. I really appreicate it!

One of my biggest fears is that I don't have a very specific area of research interest. I feel like I haven't had enough exposure to all areas (pharmacology, pathology) as an undergrad.
I guess a more succinct way to state this is that I have too many areas of interest, and I want to learn more about them before I make a decision.

My peers seem to already know their PhD thesis topic before even applying!

Is this a terrible admission on my part? Should I feign an intense interest in a certain area so that admissions committee thinks I am focused and thus have more potential?

How did you guys decide? Was your PhD research a continuation of your undergrad research?
Because honestly, I would rather do something different than my undergrad research on bacterial infections. I mean, it was fun but there is so many exciting fields out there!


🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

 

[luckygirl]

Sorry about the excessive use of smilies. It was not intentional. My computer illiteracy knows no bounds.

 

[surge]

Don't worry about it. At least it implies you have a life outside of SDN 😀

Believe me, knowing what you don't want is at least as important as knowing what you do want.
Don't, under any circumstances, try to convince the adcoms that you know exactly what you want to do. It really isn't necessary. Knowing the exact area of interest has NOTHING to do with your research potential. Quite the contrary, your curiosity and willingness to explore may actually help you. A majority of MD/PhD students at big programs end up doing their PhD in an area different from what they thought coming in. Someone actually posted on this topic and had an actual number in a previous thread (something like 60%), but I've seen it in my own experience as well. As a matter of fact, most schools REQUIRE you to do more than one rotation in order to find a lab an a project that is right for you. The only thing that matters is that you convince them you want to do research and that you are willing to work hard. Medschools also don't accept or reject people based on what residency they want to do - they know that, most of all, it's not important, and that it will likely change. So, you have nothing to worry about.

As for me, I'm one of the kids claiming to know what I want to do, but whether I will become a part of the statistic remains to be seen. Either way, it has NOTHING to do with my undergraduate work. Undergraduate research is meant to reveal whether you have the ability to think as a scientist and ask good research questions. If you do, whether you run a SDS-Page gel to detect a protein in a lymphocyte in an immunology lab, or in a astrocyte in a neurobiology lab is completely irrelevant.
I simply asked myself a question, of all thing unknown in the world of science today, what is one thing that I would most likely like to answer? Interestingly, I found it not in a search for a cure, but in asking a fundamental, almost philosophical question, which is how does the brain know how to build and organize itself. That knowledge can, of course, later make it possible to develop treatments for all sorts of developmental and neurodegenerative disorders.

But either way, you really ARE on the right track. I know some of these (us) mudphud kids can make it seem like they (we) have it all figured out, but it's neither true, nor does it have to be. Believe me, that's what the next 7-8 years are for 😉 As long as you believe you will have something to contribute to science - and you want to do so, you're the right kind of a mudphud candidate.

 

[jmed]

I agree with you guys 100%. Definitely be more agressive, luckygirl; your credentials sound solid for MSTPs. By the way, in ~20 MSTP interviews, nobody asked me about what I wanted to do for my thesis research! On the secondary applications, I just indicated three possible areas that interested me, but nobody asked me to elaborate or anything. Just an aside, how long did you spend doing the post-bac? work after college? just curious...

 

[luckygirl]

Well jmed, I spent about 3 years after graduating doing my post-bac program. At that time I was going to school part time while working full time in research labs. My research experience is pretty significant, at least in time invested. Right now i am managing an electron microscopy facility and i still do a lot of collaboration with other researchers. It's actually really fun because I am involved with so many different projects, from biologicals to material science.

 

[jmed]

Wow! That sounds great, luckygirl- good luck!

 

[Newquagmire]

Luckygirl, it seems to me (and I am no expert) that you are quite a good candidate for MD/PhD. Just to echo what others have said, it seems that your numbers are fine. Also, your additional (and significant) research work suggests that you know what a scientist's lifestyle is like. In fact, my numbers are in your ballpark, and I've been told that we shouldn't worry much at all about them.

One warning though. For some of the "top-20" programs, you have to be admitted separately to MD and MD/PhD committees. Most MD committees like to see interest in medicine as well as evidenced by volunteer work or shadowing or something of the sort.

One more thing you may want to consider (no response necessary). These days it seems like a lot of people are taking "years off" between college and professional school. With your additional years off, the near-decade of MD/PhD education, and relatively low salary of MD/PhD graduates going into research fields, will you be happy? Right now it doesn't sound like a big deal, but in the future you may want to for example (assuming you don't have one already) start a family. Science doesn't pay much when you compare it to the MD-only route, who sometimes seem to do less work than MD-PhDs in research.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll do fine!

 

[Neuronix]

Originally posted by Newquagmire
One warning though. For some of the "top-20" programs, you have to be admitted separately to MD and MD/PhD committees. Most MD committees like to see interest in medicine as well as evidenced by volunteer work or shadowing or something of the sort.

The only top-20 that comes to mind as requiring the MD program's acceptance first is UCSF. Are there any others I'm forgetting? The vast majority of schools either consider you for MD/PhD first or consider you for MD/PhD and MD separately. I think that even the schools that are considering you for an MD program take into consideration that you are a MD/PhD applicant. This is evidenced by Baylor's MD program evaluation form which stated something to the effect of: "significant research experience can be substituted for clinical exposure".

 

[Primate]

Definitely shoot higher. You don't get what you don't ask for (cliche, but true).

Myself, I have a lackluster undergrad record (at BEST), but quite good since (as in a very good show in an MBA and then a post-bacc program). I'm now in what is considered a very competitive MSTP, so DO NOT sell yourself short. You might not get into every top 20 to which you apply, but as programs are expanding faster than the applicant pool (accd to my PD), your chances only get better.

Your numbers, as others have averred, are fine. Go for it.

As for not knowing what you want to pursue for a PhD, also not a big deal. It'll help to have some general interests on the interview trail, but will be much more important to be able to really discuss (not recite) your past work.

Best,
P

 

[surge]

Where are you at, if you don't mind me asking, Primate?

 

[Neuronix]

He's at Penn with me. Primate, when we gonna get together? I'll be moving up to Philly next weekend.

 

[Primate]

Off topic, but hey..........

Neuronix,

I start OB/Gyn tomorrow (1st day back in clinic since finishing the PhD!), so I'll have a better sense of my schedule after that. I'll send you an email - I'm sure I'll need the coffee!

On topic......

And, yes, even a college neer-do-well (as in rugby player/party type) can turn it around and do OK in medicine - so far 😉 . Alot of it is in the presentation. I think I just made it PAINFULLY clear that I wanted the MD/PhD and would not stop until I got it (all in a very polite and respectful manner, though). I think that helped alot (I know that now when I interview applicants, I'm looking for that determination).

Tuppence.

P