Words of caution for career changers

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Edited version: did graduate degrees (x2) at top schools, did the whole medical exposure thing, did the DIY post-bacc, and outscored my public school by a standard dev. on the MCAT.

But no interview. No nothing. The whole "they like older candidates" line is pure BS. Maybe if you are a vet, or a housewife. Else, no.

So do not think that outperforming will land you a spot. Yes, I'm bitter, so I'll accept skepticism, but I wasted two years on a journey to nowhere. Best case, I am in a pub quiz where someone asks me about something periodic table-related.

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Very concise, thank you.

Edit: I'm sorry you haven't had any luck this cycle. I don't think it's a hard and fast rule at all. I think being older/non-trad gives me some extra talking points but I would never put any faith in the idea that it's going to get me over some hump to an acceptance.
 
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Edited version: did graduate degrees (x2) at top schools, did the whole medical exposure thing, did the DIY post-bacc, and outscored my public school by a standard dev. on the MCAT.

But no interview. No nothing. The whole "they like older candidates" line is pure BS. Maybe if you are a vet, or a housewife. Else, no.

So do not think that outperforming will land you a spot. Yes, I'm bitter, so I'll accept skepticism, but I wasted two years on a journey to nowhere. Best case, I am in a pub quiz where someone asks me about something periodic table-related.

Were you a generally entitled ****head as this post implies? That prob explains your current predicament more than anything else.
 
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I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. So many things could have gone wrong and you are pretty vague.

But everyone should be cautious. No one is guaranteed a spot in medical school, it's always a gamble and everyone needs to be aware of that going in.
 
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No one posts about cases that didn't work out, as far as I know. I always heard about the love of nontrads. It's a lie.
 
No one posts about cases that didn't work out, as far as I know. I always heard about the love of nontrads. It's a lie.
Dude. People post about it not working out all the time. They also post pretty consistently about how being a nontrad isn't as big of a deal as the myth. Just being a non trad wasn't going to get you in. You're ridiculous if you thought that. Also, you did not get in because of you. Not because of anything else. You're bitter and entitled AF.
 
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I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. So many things could have gone wrong and you are pretty vague.

But everyone should be cautious. No one is guaranteed a spot in medical school, it's always a gamble and everyone needs to be aware of that going in.

Thanks. And yes, I am being vague. But adding more will just do more harm to my CV. Just seriously hold off on this adventure. It can easily be a misadventure.
 
Dude. People post about it not working out all the time. They also post pretty consistently about how being a nontrad isn't as big of a deal as the myth. Also, you did not get in because of you. Not because of anything else. You're bitter and entitled AF.

I surely am.
 
Were you a generally entitled ****head as this post implies? That prob explains your current predicament more than anything else.

No, I can write the semi-fiction needed for the Personal Statement. Keep pouring the hate,
 
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No, I can write the semi-fiction needed for the Personal Statement. Keep pouring the hate, I'm already ****ed.
Lol semi-fiction?! Wow. You're pathetic, dude. You literally just typed out why exactly your application was doomed from the get.
 
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Lol semi-fiction?! Wow. You're pathetic, dude. You literally just typed out why exactly your application was doomed from the get.

I AM a career changer. Who was a successful applicant. So suck on that.
I'm not trying to pick a fight. It's surely hard, I'm just saying there is an overemphasis on "story." You don't get interrogated on motives in business school admissions. But it is central for premeds.
 
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So this will probably get buried under the premed Q&As. Just wanted to say I checked those Q&As religously. I so thought I was on a track to an MD program. Didn't happen. So yeah, I'm entitled, people saw through me, etc., but point is: don't quit a ****ty job for the glimmer of hope you may do something "good" and "worthwhile."

That's all.
 
So this will probably get buried under the premed Q&As. Just wanted to say I checked those Q&As religously. I so thought I was on a track to an MD program. Didn't happen. So yeah, I'm entitled, people saw through me, etc., but point is: don't quit a ****ty job for the glimmer of hope you may do something "good" and "worthwhile."

That's all.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

1. MBAs aren't responsible for lives

2. No. You shouldn't have quit your day job because you should have realized that you didn't have the right intentions to enter medicine. It's not just another "job." Adcoms are employed to see right through people like you because you do not seem to comprehend that you will be responsible for a life as a physician. Therefore, you should, you know, care about that. Not "fictionalize"your story so that adcoms will believe you do.


But bye.
 
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too top heavy perhaps?
 
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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

1. MBAs aren't responsible for lives

2. No. You shouldn't have quit your day job because you should have realized that you didn't have the right intentions to enter medicine. It's not just another "job." Adcoms are employed to see right through people like you because you do not seem to comprehend that you will be responsible for a life as a physician. Therefore, you should, you know, care about that. Not "fictionalize"your story so that adcoms will believe you do.

But bye.

Yeah yeah yeah. MBAs are soulless. Even if I don't hold one.

By the way, how many physicians accept bronze plans?...
 
Yeah yeah yeah. MBAs are soulless. Even if I don't hold one.

By the way, how many physicians accept bronze plans?...
Wtf? I never said they were soulless. They're not responsible for lives. Geez. I'm so glad no one trusted you to care for the lives of others.

Let this serve as a cautionary tale to all those aiming to enter medicine for the a) money b)prestige c) "because your mom told you to.' you won't get away with it. And if you do, it won't be for long
 
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too top heavy perhaps?

No, pretty balanced.

My point is just, apparently, something noted often. Nontrads don't always work out. I just felt like I was in an odd position: good credentials, good score, etc., and no response, heaviness of all sorts.
 
Even as a career changer who got in, I can totally relate. Yeah sure, more years out of college means more time to do ECs, but schools know that and expect more from you than younger applicants. The whole "non-trad is the new trad" thing is best fit for people who pre-planned their gap years in college and are only spending a year or two to do Peace Corps or NIH research or something. For most people it's going to be an up-hill struggle versus someone who was premed in college.
 
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Wtf? I never said they were soulless. They're not responsible for lives. Geez. I'm so glad no one trusted you to care for the lives of others.

Let this serve as a cautionary tale to all those aiming to enter medicine for the a) money b)prestige c) "because your mom told you to.' you won't get away with it. And if you do, it won't be for long

Yeah, you've baited me. So you were not taking a shot at MBAs? I mean, yeah, I brought up business school, but I thought I was safe in guessing you were placing b-school on a lower level. I was not comparing on that - I was just saying b-school doesn't needle you on motives. And if you haven't been wronged by illness/ailment, where does a motive come from? But whatever, you seem to have an odd axe to grind.
 
Even as a career changer who got in, I can totally relate. Yeah sure, more years out of college means more time to do ECs, but schools know that and expect more from you than younger applicants. The whole "non-trad is the new trad" thing is best fit for people who pre-planned their gap years in college and are only spending a year or two to do Peace Corps or NIH research or something. For most people it's going to be an up-hill struggle versus someone who was premed in college.

Thanks, at least permit me some whinging/cynicism. If only because I sure as hell ain't heading down this path any longer.
 
Yeah, you've baited me. So you were not taking a shot at MBAs? I mean, yeah, I brought up business school, but I thought I was safe in guessing you were placing b-school on a lower level. I was not comparing on that - I was just saying b-school doesn't needle you on motives. And if you haven't been wronged by illness/ailment, where does a motive come from? But whatever, you seem to have an odd axe to grind.
Dude. You must be seriously dense if you think anyone would question the motives of a business school applicant in the same way as those of a medical school applicant. One would like to spend their life responsible for others' lives, the other doesn't.

As for the rest of what you said-- it literally makes no sense. Sooooo no comment on any of that.

Have a great life though. :horns:
 
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Dude. You must be seriously dense if you think anyone would question the motives of a business school applicant in the same way as those of a medical school applicant. One would like to spend their life responsible for others' lives, the other doesn't.

As for the rest of what you said-- it literally makes no sense. Sooooo no comment on any of that.

Have a great life though. :horns:

Alright, thanks for your time.

OP, I understand that you are frustrated but I am a career changer myself, was a geophysicist/in business in my past life and this is my first and thankfully my only cycle. Every single interview I had, they seemed very pleased to meet me and hear about my experiences so it does work. If this is a vent post then I get it, otherwise, post more concrete info about yourself and your app, and maybe we can tell you why it hasn't worked out for you yet.

No, I wasn't aiming to vent. I was honestly trying to share a story I wish I heard a few years ago. All good, thanks.
 
Why did you want to change careers? How much money were you hoping to make as a doctor?
 
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Why did you want to change careers? How much money were you hoping to make as a doctor?

Did not enjoy what I was doing. Felt confident that I could get a good MCAT in short time. Got a 513 in two years. Led to nothing. So when I get prostate cancer, will surely waive treatment, citing my inability to understand the severity, and my shallow motives in wanting to be rid of it.
 
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Edited version: did graduate degrees (x2) at top schools, did the whole medical exposure thing, did the DIY post-bacc, and outscored my public school by a standard dev. on the MCAT.

But no interview. No nothing. The whole "they like older candidates" line is pure BS. Maybe if you are a vet, or a housewife. Else, no.

So do not think that outperforming will land you a spot. Yes, I'm bitter, so I'll accept skepticism, but I wasted two years on a journey to nowhere. Best case, I am in a pub quiz where someone asks me about something periodic table-related.
I always thought the non-trad love was in the DO schools. I honestly doubt MD schools care about non-trad vs trad. I really think you have to have the numbers for MD. DO adcoms advertise a holistic review of your app. Also, MD schools really only care about undergrad so if you had a sub 3.5 gpa with a sub 508 MCAT I could see where applying to less than 15 schools could get you no interviews. There are so many more factors at play other than non-trad status.
 
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What are your stats besides the MCAT and what is your school list?
 
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You're an idiot for going down this path if not getting in on your first try (without even applying to DO schools) causes you to immediately give up, regret your decision, and deter anyone else from following in your footsteps.
 
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Only because I suspected it may be received with doubt, that I wanted it only as a backup. Maybe it would've been prudent.

Try out the DO route. The schools are great, out of 30MD apps, 0 II, of 10 DO apps, 6 II.

Shadow a DO for a few hours and be prepared to tell them why you liked it.

I get being discouraged, but recognize how hard you've worked up to now. It's just one for one more step in the journey.

If you really want this -- get published & volunteer for an underserved community
 
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Thanks. And yes, I am being vague. But adding more will just do more harm to my CV. Just seriously hold off on this adventure. It can easily be a misadventure.

Nah, think I'll continue my non trad "adventure" aka real life


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Ya, based on the hyperbolic ranting, I don't think anyone will take this seriously without actual information (GPA, mcat, volunteering info, school list). Well, I hope they won't.

Nontrad applicants aren't sought out for being nontrad, and we still have to do 95% of the stuff a more typical applicant would have done, we just have something... else... in addition. If you assumed admissions committed would ignore your deficits because you're "nontrad", you'd be wrong. Also, if the extent of your nontrad-ness is that you keep chasing degrees (UG + 2(?) grad degrees + aspiring medical school applicant), then you may just come across someone who can't commit.

I had a failed cycle. Reflected and reapplied, and did great this year. While I think my original shortcomings could have been overlooked (for what I think are my strengths), the admissions folks needed more "proof" of my value as an applicant and commitment to the field. (The second is arguably even more important if you're changing fields.)
 
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Did not enjoy what I was doing. Felt confident that I could get a good MCAT in short time. Got a 513 in two years. Led to nothing. So when I get prostate cancer, will surely waive treatment, citing my inability to understand the severity, and my shallow motives in wanting to be rid of it.

Your metaphor sucks.


That's all
 
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Just a few observations.
1. No one cares about graduate degree's or Graduate GPA, it is only a liability if it is low.
2. People who think that being a Non-trad will excuse you from the the academic requirements of success in medical school applications are delusional.
3. Non trads do have a leg up in the process but not in the place most people would think. They have a leg up in the interviews (generally more polished interviewers because of a experience in interviewing for jobs etc, more maturity)
4. School lists matter
5. Total LizzyM matters
6 . State of residence matters
7. I hate to be that guy but a 513 is about a 32. That was the median accepted MCAT , that being said you only have a 50 / 50 shot with a GPA less then 3.6
 
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Wow, seriously, bash and hate all you want. I'm out of the running. Maybe some of my sentences were bitter, but that slips out occasionally now as I work out plan C.

MCAT 513, cGPA 3.8, sGPA 3.5 (yeah, usual chemistry-challenged type). Schools were a mix of state public's in my region, and some privates where my score fell in the 10-90 percentile range on MSAR.

Quite honestly, I heard a lot about the idea that med schools go nuts for the slightly older (30) candidate, but it really didn't work out for me. Wish I had heard this when I first started. And no, not quitting early. I applied after year one with a 509. (Not bad for someone without orgo I figured.)

So I figured I'd share my disappointment on a forum where people ask about their chances going back all the time. That's it.
 
Wow, seriously, bash and hate all you want. I'm out of the running. Maybe some of my sentences were bitter, but that slips out occasionally now as I work out plan C.

MCAT 513, cGPA 3.8, sGPA 3.5 (yeah, usual chemistry-challenged type). Schools were a mix of state public's in my region, and some privates where my score fell in the 10-90 percentile range on MSAR.

Quite honestly, I heard a lot about the idea that med schools go nuts for the slightly older (30) candidate, but it really didn't work out for me. Wish I had heard this when I first started. And no, not quitting early. I applied after year one with a 509. (Not bad for someone without orgo I figured.)

So I figured I'd share my disappointment on a forum where people ask about their chances going back all the time. That's it.
Given your stats, I would be curious if there are any red flags or you are missing some key component of your application, like shadowing or, clinical experience, or volunteering. I would be willing to talk in pm if you would prefer. I am sorry about your cycle so far, but this process is always a gamble. There is not much anyone in this forum can offer besides empathy, advice, and vitriol. Good luck.
 
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This was your second app cycle, and you still didn't consider DO? And you still won't consider it now? Why are you working on plan C when this is so clearly still an open door for you?
 
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So you're a 2nd time applicant who chose not to apply DO?
 
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Wow, seriously, bash and hate all you want. I'm out of the running. Maybe some of my sentences were bitter, but that slips out occasionally now as I work out plan C.

MCAT 513, cGPA 3.8, sGPA 3.5 (yeah, usual chemistry-challenged type). Schools were a mix of state public's in my region, and some privates where my score fell in the 10-90 percentile range on MSAR.

Quite honestly, I heard a lot about the idea that med schools go nuts for the slightly older (30) candidate, but it really didn't work out for me. Wish I had heard this when I first started. And no, not quitting early. I applied after year one with a 509. (Not bad for someone without orgo I figured.)

So I figured I'd share my disappointment on a forum where people ask about their chances going back all the time. That's it.

What were your ECs? How many IIs did you get? Also, anything you're not telling us? IA? DUI? Murder charge?
 
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Edited version: did graduate degrees (x2) at top schools, did the whole medical exposure thing, did the DIY post-bacc, and outscored my public school by a standard dev. on the MCAT.

But no interview. No nothing. The whole "they like older candidates" line is pure BS. Maybe if you are a vet, or a housewife. Else, no.

So do not think that outperforming will land you a spot. Yes, I'm bitter, so I'll accept skepticism, but I wasted two years on a journey to nowhere. Best case, I am in a pub quiz where someone asks me about something periodic table-related.
How broadly did you apply? Applying to just your state school is never, ever a sure shot. State schools get thousands of applicants. If you did a mix of 30 schools with a handful of DO schools, you'd have gotten in somewhere, guaranteed.
 
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This was your second app cycle, and you still didn't consider DO? And you still won't consider it now? Why are you working on plan C when this is so clearly still an open door for you?
So you're a 2nd time applicant who chose not to apply DO?
How broadly did you apply? Applying to just your state school is never, ever a sure shot. State schools get thousands of applicants. If you did a mix of 30 schools with a handful of DO schools, you'd have gotten in somewhere, guaranteed.

Not sure i understand why you are recommending DO schools. I thought there was no such thing as safety schools and guarantees?
 
Yeah, you've baited me. So you were not taking a shot at MBAs? I mean, yeah, I brought up business school, but I thought I was safe in guessing you were placing b-school on a lower level. I was not comparing on that - I was just saying b-school doesn't needle you on motives. And if you haven't been wronged by illness/ailment, where does a motive come from? But whatever, you seem to have an odd axe to grind.
Uh, the motivation can come from a whole lot of places. Everyone's motivation is different. What was your honest motivation? It's important, because some motivations won't get you through med school.
 
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Not sure i understand why you are recommending DO schools. I thought there was no such thing as safety schools and guarantees?
You're far more likely to stand out with good MD stats in the DO pool. I had above average stats for the MD side of things, only applied DO, and was offered an interview invite to all but three of the schools I applied to, and every interview I went on I was accepted. The pool of candidates on the DO side of things is not as deep or high quality, so many schools will try to pick off high stat candidates to boost their board scores and pass rates, because you need a few people that excel to balance out your borderline admissions.
 
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You're far more likely to stand out with good MD stats in the DO pool. I had above average stats for the MD side of things, only applied DO, and was offered an interview invite to all but three of the schools I applied to, and every interview I went on I was accepted. The pool of candidates on the DO side of things is not as deep or high quality, so many schools will try to pick off high stat candidates to boost their board scores and pass rates, because you need a few people that excel to balance out your borderline admissions.

This makes sense but aren't DO schools suffering from the score creep? With increasingly more DO schools having stats that match or surpass those of lower tier MD schools. Since grade replacement is gone, DO pathway just looks like an MD pathway with a different application system. So it's probable that the DO applicant pool is becoming a lot stronger in the past few years to rival that of MD applicant pool. Applying to DO may not really improve OP's chances significantly
 
Just add some data to this argument, in both MD and DO applicant pool, approx 5-6% are age 30 or older, which matches or just slightly above the age distribution in the matriculant pool. At least on gross level, there does not appear any discrimination based on applicant age.

Medical schools dont go "nuts" for nontrads, nor do they push them out easily. Nontrads do have to overcome usually being slightly out of the mold of the typical applicant that an adcom sees by emphasizing those older, unique experiences that they have over traditional applicants with a coherent, concise, and compelling narrative showing a strong pattern of motivation, commitment, and achievement. The difficulty I see most nontrads, and traditional students, have is the belief they must make themselves fit into a mold of traditional applicant as opposed to taking what they have and finding a "theme" for their overall application with that. Applicants get so caught up with the stats that they lose sight of how to present your overall application
I would be curious to see the actual matriculating stats for the non trads. I have a sneaking suspicion that they are in line with the schools that they are matriculating at. Non trads have to show academic performance at the same level as their trad peers and show some clear narrative on why. IMHO. Therefore the narrative is moot if the stats arent in line. In the immortal words of Johnie Cochran, if the LizzyM dont fit you wont get an admit.
 
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