Working while in med school?

[abbeydesert]

I will be starting med school this fall and was planning to work 10-20 hours per week to help reduce my reliance on debt. Everyone I've talked to tells me I'm crazy to even think about doing this. I realize that med school entails vast amounts of studying...but I feel that I have a solid basis for most of the basic science courses (I've taken a lot of bio, e.g., Immunology, several micro courses incl. Medical Microbiology, Virology, several genetics including Clinical Genetics, Physiology (using the same Guyton book many med schools use), several Biochem courses, Animal Embryology, and Human Anatomy (the latter an abbreviated course for PT students- it doesn't compare to Gross in depth, but should still give me some background). I have ALWAYS worked- all through college and graduate school- and never less than 20 hours per week, often 40 hours or more in my early undergrad years. In fact, the necessity of working has often helped me stay organized and focused on my schoolwork- it's hard for me to imagine NOT working. Still, judging from the reactions of everyone I've talked to, it's apparently absolutely impossible to work while in med school. Any experiences to the contrary, or opinions either way? Any feedback much appreciated!

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[Billie]

Well, as someone who also worked in graduate school, all I can say is that Med school does not even compare to graduate school. If you find you can work while in med school, then you are truly an exceptional human being. The people in the top of my class did not have the time to work. But maybe you will be an exception. What days will you work? The first semester espcially...I mean we had anatomy lab 3 days a week, and the other days we would still go into lab to work. We had 24 hour access to our lab, so before exams, it was not unusual to be there studying at 2 and 3am.

Our exam schedule was on a "block exam" system. We would have 4-6 weeks of classes, then a week of exams. Each day a different exam. I can almost guarantee you will not be able to work during that week or the weekend before.

But I will say that in our second year, some of my classmates did work on weekends. One was a speech pathologist who did per diem work. So I think it can be done, but I would really hesitate...at least the first semester.

Good luck,

Billie

 

[BigSkyDreams]

Howdy,

I have been told to wait and get a feel for school before I commit to a job. The only employment I have been encouraged to continue is my weekend warrior stuff which is with a hospital unit within ten minutes of my house.

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BSD
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Work under the assumption that you will be happy one day

 

[Toran]

Wait until you get a feel for the first semester, and then decide. It's not the content of the courses, it is the volume of the work load.

Toran

 

[lilycat]

I'm in your same situation abbey -- I've been working non-stop since high school, and I really can't imagine not having an income all of a sudden. However, I think I'm going to at least wait it out the first semester. One thing I've considered is being a paid note-taker for a class or two -- it's not great amounts of money, but it might give me the opportunity for a few small luxuries like lattes or a dinner out once in a while.

 

[kimberlicox]

Will the money you make in 10-20 hours per week make a SIGNIFICANT difference in your loan debt? Unless you have a professional job, it is unlikely to.

I think the other posters are quite sage in suggesting that you "wait and see". You don't know how much your background knowledge will help - the fact of the matter is that the material is NOT difficult, its finding the time to go through it all and in such a short period of time. Working will obvious place constraints on your time.

I usually advise against working while in medical school (you will not be able to durign 3rd and 4th year) and some medical schools prohibit it as well. Calculate your earnings and how much difference that will make to your debt load. And remember that while several thousand dollars sounds like a lot, you WILL be able to pay the loans off - regardless of specialty - and its just a drop in the bucket in the long run. Don't sacrifice your grades, your new friendships, your family and your emotional health by working.

 

[bjhartma]

I wonder how many people working 70 hours a week consider taking a second job? This is what you're in for in all likelihood. Weekends are used to catch up from the blasting you received during the week. When you finish medschool and are in debt $130,000 it's really not all that bad. Say you're first year's salary after residency is $150,000. Did the $6,000 you made during the first two years of medschool really matter all that much?

Relax as much as you can. You need to take personal time to avoid stress attacks and such while in medschool. My advice: no job other than becoming a doctor.

 

[Djanaba]

Another way to think about it: in high school, you got out at maybe 3pm? And then had time for homework, studies, extracurriculars, fun. In college, you had class a few times a week, some labs, but likely not 8 hours a day except the double and triple lab semesters. In med school, especially the first year, *expect* to be in school 8-5. Tack on your commute time, and dinner time. Now estimate that you should be spending at least two hours with your books per night, and a good chunk of time on the weekend. To stay sane, this leaves very little time for a job -- you will NEED those free moments for exercise, silliness, personal time, spiritual time, family time. When you are a doctor you WILL be able to pay off your loans. Devote your time to you and your studies, and leave the money to take care of itself when all is said and done. Good luck!

 

[Stephen Ewen]

If I knew my doctor worked during med school I would find another one. Barring genius, that person HAD to be an utter CRAMMER, and not enough of a LEARNER.

The exception would be if that person's very minimal work was their form of stress relief.

[This message has been edited by Stephen Ewen (edited March 25, 2001).]

 

[Pegasus]

Its NOT worth it. You will want to savor every second of free time in Med School, even to go have a beer with your friends after anatomy lab. Why would you want to put on the extra stress? I am having such a great time here because for the first time since I was 16, I dont have to work!! And I love it, despite all the studying!!


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~Pegasus~

 

[abbeydesert]

Thanks for the input- that is basically what I expected to hear (except I was a bit surprised by Stephen's comment...."If I knew my doctor worked during med school I would find another one." Maybe I'll understand once I start med school myself!) I think I will follow the above posters' advice and take the "wait and see" approach. Just for comparison's sake, here's the type of schedule I had early in college:

Freshman year, I took 18 credit hours (Gen Biology, Gen Chemistry, Calculus, English Comp, Western Civ, and PE) and worked 45-50 hrs/week at 2 jobs.

MWF
Classes 9-1
Tutor on campus 1-4
Work at restaurant off-campus 5-10
Study at home until midnight or 1 AM

TR was similar, except I had labs until 4, then went to work from 5-10 as usual

Weekends- Saturday and Sunday:
Work 10-7
Saturday evening- my one time in the week to go out!
Sunday evening- study (often "social" study in the library)

BTW I made straight A's that year. I never had time to watch TV or anything, but I was very motivated and very happy nonetheless. I even managed to meet and maintain a blossoming relationship with the man who is now my husband of five years. And I took some time off the following summer to go backpacking through Europe before returning to follow a similar schedule sophomore year (Except this time I took Organic, Analytical Chem, Physics, Calc III, and Literature all in the same semester and promptly earned my first B. I also started to get burned out, so, believe me, I know the importance of knowing my own limits!)

The last thing I want is to burn out and be miserable in med school, so there's no way I would work if that were the case. You guys are absolutely right- a few thousand dollars either way isn't worth making yourself miserable over. It's just so hard for me to imagine NOT working, especially if it were only 10-20 hours per week. I know of at least one medical school (Albany) that offers College Work-Study to medical students. I suspect it's only 10 hours/week or so, but maybe that's feasible for some people.

 

[kimberlicox]

I think that sounds like a reasonble solution. Despite your background studies and experience in undergrad, I think you *will* be suprised at the sheer volume of work to be done in medical school and the little time to do it in. And frankly, while someone mentioned studying 2 hours per night after class, I needed to do more than that - but then my brain is old and not as flexible as some of the kiddies'.

Plus, I think your wonderful and loving husband would prefer that in those few off-hours you *did* have, you were spending them cuddling with him. The survival rate of marriages during med school is POOR - consider taking some of that extra energy you have for working multiple jobs and spending it working on THE most important thing in life - your family.

Good luck!

 

[Stephen Ewen]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by kimberlicox:
Plus, I think your wonderful and loving husband would prefer that in those few off-hours you *did* have, you were spending them cuddling with him. The survival rate of marriages during med school is POOR - consider taking some of that extra energy you have for working multiple jobs and spending it working on THE most important thing in life - your family.•

Indeed, indeed!

 

[Mango]

WHOOOA! You guys are pretty quick to tell the original poster no!

I know SEVERAL people in my med school class who are working, taking other classes, and even some that are doing BOTH! And they are all still doing extremely well. I know that I personally have plenty of time to get a part time job, it's just that I'm lazy, and would rather watch the Discovery Health channel for several hours at a time!

Let's remember that we are all different, and some people have excellent time management skills. If you want to work in med school, go for it! Shoot, I know single mothers in my school, isn't that like having a FULL-TIME job!?

One last point, my father told me "If you want something done, ask a busy person." Translation, those that work hard, have time to spare.

 

[mophead]

I plan on working five to ten hours a week during med school. I work in a professional capacity and in a health care setting (interpreting for deaf people), so I can make enough money to live on with these few hours of work, and learn some medicine to boot. Plus there's always "down time" where I can study (sitting beside a patient in the ER all evening...) Some of the schools I visited (U of Chicago, for one) actually encourage their students to work a few hours a week, especially if it's the kind of work where they can study on the job.

 

[baylor21]

On a related subject...

If you say that there is no way that someone in med school can work 10-20 hours a week then how is it possible to be involved in extracurricular activities while in med school?

Are extracurriculars completely irrelevant when applying to residency programs? That seems hard to believe.

I get the impression that once you get into med school everyboyd just studies all the time and does nothing else as far as significant other activities. Doesnt that make you into a less well rounded person? I thought they wanted us to be well rounded to get accepted to med school but once we're in all of a sudden they dont care about that anymore?

Please explain....

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"There is nothing more powerful on this Earth as a man who has nothing to lose. It does not take ten such men to change the world--one will do." Elijah Mohammed

[This message has been edited by baylor21 (edited March 26, 2001).]

 

[kimberlicox]

Some additional thoughts on the matter...

I agree with Mango - it is obvious that some people are able to work during medical school and do well. Many people, myself included, are able to have several projects going at once. And I also had several classmates who worked during the first two years - however, that isn't a fair comparison because in a PBL curriculum you are only in class approx. 20 hrs per week and the rest of the time is yours as you please.

It is NOT about the hours though, IMHO. Being a single mother IS A JOB but single or not, these mothers are spending their extra time AT HOME WITH THEIR CHILDREN. Abbeydesert is proposing spending time away from the family. If she were single, I'd say "Go for it", you'll only have yourself to worry about. But she has made a commitment to a marriage and to another person. Medical school IS notoriously stressful on a marriage - couple it with an extra 10 hours away from her husband while at work - only adds to the stress and lessens her enjoyment of life and her marriage, IMHO. If I were her husband, I'd want her to be able to spend as much time after hours and on weekends with me as possible. Then again, who knows - maybe he's working too?!

Baylor21 - no one expects you to give up your extracurriculars during medical school. As a matter of fact, doing something interesting can give you an edge during residency applications. On the whole people probably do do less than before medical school but many students are still active in an athletic league, working with AMSA, doing research or any number of other projects. There probably are medical students who do nothing but study 130 hours per week and sleep the remaining 38 hours; I've never met any - just lots of people who exaggerate the amount of studying and time it takes!

I don't doubt that Abbeydesert *could* find the 10-20 hours per week to work if she wanted. Heck, as everyone knows, I certainly spend at least 10 hours per week here most weeks. It is always possible to find extra time in the week - but SOMETHING will have to be sacrificed.

My issue is this: why work when she would be depriving herself of time for extracurricular activities, time with her husband and time for daily chores like eating, showering, grocery shopping, exercising, and watching tv?

If she were able to work during the day that would be great. However, IMHO she is going to come home from school, want to do some studying and extracurricularing, including spending time with her husband. If she wants to work fine - I'm sure she COULD do it and still maintain her grades. But I think the sacrifices would not be worth the financial gain.

[This message has been edited by kimberlicox (edited March 26, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by kimberlicox (edited March 26, 2001).]

 

[riverweb]

I am a MS1 and also have a job. It works for me as I have had the job for 7 years, and it's a great change of pace from the rigors of medical school. On the other hand, medical school is unlike anything I have ever experienced (and I'm 44, so that's saying something.) I really suggest that you get used to the pace of the studies before you commit to work. You will also need recreation time--lest you go insane. So, approach this one carefully; that's my advice.

 

[Stephen Ewen]

A little more:

I think having a job, like one mentioned, where you essentially study on the job is a pretty sweet deal. I would be interested in hearing what types of jobs people have encountered wher this is possible. (I can think of a few, but....).

People, you are going to need to remain human while in med school. This requires a balance of academic, and social, and recreational activities with family and friends.

One person mentioned TV. Does not several hours per week watching a movie or show with family and freinds mean staying human? Is it not *rejuvinating*?

I come at all this as one with a wife and young kids. To me, assertions of working while in medical school equate with assertions of fathers sacrificing their children's development. It equates with flirting with the divorce statistics. It equates with having gotten your medical degree, but at the expense of a portion of your humanity and family that you may never be able to get back.

Is the money gotten while working in med school really worth that?

 

[peiyueng]

Hi
Speaking of working while in medical school, I would like to share my working experience.
I was OMT TA ($6.25/hr) for MSI when I was a MSII, and I was tutoring Gross Anatomy, Path, Micro, ... as a tutor hired by my school ($9/hr), and I was the note-taker for my class, hired by the school again--having an extremely neat hand-writing and able to write fast helped ($6/hr, and we have 8 hrs of classes pretty much every day at COMP--$48/day). I was getting pay for going to all my classes, getting pay for reviewing/studying for my COMPLEX I (as a MSI tutor and OMT TA)!
It is possible to make money while you go to medical school without doing anymore extra work, or get burn-out.

Pei (happily married for 3 years)
WUHS/COMP MSIII


[This message has been edited by peiyueng (edited March 27, 2001).]

 

[gp]

Yours is an interesting perspective - but you're sounding a little judgemental there in both your posts Mr. Ewen...

I'm finding I can work about 5-7 hrs per week, except during finals. I would be able to do more but I have a pretty substantial commute and our schedule is also pretty lecture heavy. I think it's common for people in my first year class to be doing things outside of lectures - lab work, research, teaching, etc. - regardless of marital status.

Different things work for different people and would definitely recommend seeing what works for you. I have been working on the same projects since before medical school - I think this is much easier than taking on something brand new.

 

[Stephen Ewen]

I'm not being judgemental at all. Maybe you are of me? My motive is to see med students stay same and human, and those with families not place them in jeapordy by extending themselves where they may not need to. It is to say that learning is not cramming, despite any performanse on tests, and working in med school and other such endeavors, for most, simply means cramming-regurgitating-forgetting more.

Lab work, research, teaching--these are part of med school itself.

I think for some a little work can be stress relief. For others it is needless stress itself. Some get these awesome sweet deals!