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Racegirl, I have friends who also may have been in one of the World Trade Centers. I'm not sure at this point. I hope that your brother is found safe and sound.
World Trade Center
- Thread starter DNALadder2002
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Racegirl,
My thoughts and prayers are with your family. I really hope to god that you have good news for us the next time you do decide to post.
My thoughts and prayers are with your family. I really hope to god that you have good news for us the next time you do decide to post.
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A few important thoughts, as I have finally gotten word that all those I was most worried about are safe, albeit displaced.
Yes, those responsible for this are hideous demons. But it's not just Americans in the Pentagon and the WTC they put in danger. It feels like all Americans. And, furthermore, they put the entirety of those of their nationality, their religion, their ethnic group, in danger as well: untold millions and millions of innocents.
"Kill them all" does nothing. Unfortunately, retributions of mass killing does nothing but claim lives of more innocents and fuels the fire of hate, nearly begging for more crossfire. Yes, we need to figure out who did it, and deal with the guilty, setting them up as an example. No, we do not need to continue the circle of mindless violence because we feel the need for retribution on the same scale.
To the poster who believed that some were "incapable" of doing something like this because of background: coming from a third world nation does NOT equal stupidity. This was well-engineered, but simple, and I believe any group with enough hate would be capable of finding the appropriate people to carry this out, ESPECIALLY if they were dedicated to a cause or a form of religion so strongly that they were more than willing if it required their deaths.
Peace to everyone. Focus on doing good right now, and let someone else worry about the logistics of our country's political "what's next." We've got plenty to deal with at home still.
Yes, those responsible for this are hideous demons. But it's not just Americans in the Pentagon and the WTC they put in danger. It feels like all Americans. And, furthermore, they put the entirety of those of their nationality, their religion, their ethnic group, in danger as well: untold millions and millions of innocents.
"Kill them all" does nothing. Unfortunately, retributions of mass killing does nothing but claim lives of more innocents and fuels the fire of hate, nearly begging for more crossfire. Yes, we need to figure out who did it, and deal with the guilty, setting them up as an example. No, we do not need to continue the circle of mindless violence because we feel the need for retribution on the same scale.
To the poster who believed that some were "incapable" of doing something like this because of background: coming from a third world nation does NOT equal stupidity. This was well-engineered, but simple, and I believe any group with enough hate would be capable of finding the appropriate people to carry this out, ESPECIALLY if they were dedicated to a cause or a form of religion so strongly that they were more than willing if it required their deaths.
Peace to everyone. Focus on doing good right now, and let someone else worry about the logistics of our country's political "what's next." We've got plenty to deal with at home still.
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I wish my first post is not about such a horrible tragedy...
Please refrain from fighting on this forum regarding this issue. Right now, I think that we should concentrate our energy on ways that we can help, whether that is to provide a shoulder for those who needs our support or to give blood. I think people of New York should be applauded for their conduct during this tragedy (no looting or mass hysteria).
My thoughts are with Racergirl and others who still do not know the fate of their loved ones.
Please refrain from fighting on this forum regarding this issue. Right now, I think that we should concentrate our energy on ways that we can help, whether that is to provide a shoulder for those who needs our support or to give blood. I think people of New York should be applauded for their conduct during this tragedy (no looting or mass hysteria).
My thoughts are with Racergirl and others who still do not know the fate of their loved ones.
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Makes you wonder how close you skate to the line without even knowing it. I flew from Logan to SFO on Monday.
Emotions are running high on this site so I don't want to engage anyone specifically, but I feel that expressing emotions/thoughts is helpful for oneself, so here goes.
I think that the terrorists have now overplayed their hand. We, as a country, have earned the right to "shoot first, ask questions later". America is a target, and we have tried to dance around diplomatically for too long. Going forward, if a country wants to harbor terrorist cells that target the US then I think we should use limited diplomatic means and failing that, use any means we feel necessary to defend ourselves. Will this mean the loss of innocent lives? Perhaps. But these governments need to shoulder responsibility for the evil that knowingly goes on within their borders. This is just an unfortunate fact of war. And quite frankly, better them than me, or any of you. Let's face it, the world as we know it was forever changed yesterday.
Let's assume for the moment that Bin Laden is responsible. We've already indicted him for other acts of terrorism against the US, but if 2 days ago we had bombed Afghanistan, (like Clinton did), to try to exterminate his groups, we would've been denounced throughout the world. Going forward we won't need "conclusive evidence". First, because it's virtually impossible to obtain, and second, it's usually too late by the time it's received. I really think that this cowardly act will spark the formation of an international committee united against terrorist groups.
In an earlier thread about McVeigh I said that I felt there was no puishment too severe or cruel for him. I feel the same way today about these terrorists. I, as an American, am 100% completely behind my President and Military Chiefs of Staff on their decisions regarding punishment to be leveled in the coming days. If they feel that Bin Laden (yes, even if he's not responsible for this particular act), is hiding in the remote mountainous regions of Afghanistan and that a limited strategic nuclear strike is the best way of eliminating him and minimizing the risks to our troops, then so be it.
Racergirl, I wish I had the words to express how I feel about your situation. Suffice it to say that my eyes are welling up as I type these words.
An angry American.
Emotions are running high on this site so I don't want to engage anyone specifically, but I feel that expressing emotions/thoughts is helpful for oneself, so here goes.
I think that the terrorists have now overplayed their hand. We, as a country, have earned the right to "shoot first, ask questions later". America is a target, and we have tried to dance around diplomatically for too long. Going forward, if a country wants to harbor terrorist cells that target the US then I think we should use limited diplomatic means and failing that, use any means we feel necessary to defend ourselves. Will this mean the loss of innocent lives? Perhaps. But these governments need to shoulder responsibility for the evil that knowingly goes on within their borders. This is just an unfortunate fact of war. And quite frankly, better them than me, or any of you. Let's face it, the world as we know it was forever changed yesterday.
Let's assume for the moment that Bin Laden is responsible. We've already indicted him for other acts of terrorism against the US, but if 2 days ago we had bombed Afghanistan, (like Clinton did), to try to exterminate his groups, we would've been denounced throughout the world. Going forward we won't need "conclusive evidence". First, because it's virtually impossible to obtain, and second, it's usually too late by the time it's received. I really think that this cowardly act will spark the formation of an international committee united against terrorist groups.
In an earlier thread about McVeigh I said that I felt there was no puishment too severe or cruel for him. I feel the same way today about these terrorists. I, as an American, am 100% completely behind my President and Military Chiefs of Staff on their decisions regarding punishment to be leveled in the coming days. If they feel that Bin Laden (yes, even if he's not responsible for this particular act), is hiding in the remote mountainous regions of Afghanistan and that a limited strategic nuclear strike is the best way of eliminating him and minimizing the risks to our troops, then so be it.
Racergirl, I wish I had the words to express how I feel about your situation. Suffice it to say that my eyes are welling up as I type these words.
An angry American.
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"It has been foreseen that exactly three hundred and fifty years into the future, silver phoenixes shall strike down the twin brothers of oppression that carried the king's nation, which shall bring upon the apocalypse."
Nostradamus (September 11th, 1651)
this is scary...i really think we're on the brink of WWIII...
Nostradamus (September 11th, 1651)
this is scary...i really think we're on the brink of WWIII...
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Originally posted by saffron:
•"It has been foreseen that exactly three hundred and fifty years into the future, silver phoenixes shall strike down the twin brothers of oppression that carried the king's nation, which shall bring upon the apocalypse."
Nostradamus (September 11th, 1651)
this is scary...i really think we're on the brink of WWIII...
Where did you find the above quote?
Andrew
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I doubt that this is WWIII. We have all of the "civilized" countries on our side. Even Russia has expressed to Bush that this should not go unpunished. I think that this will be target practice. (Not trying to sound callous, but cannot help myself.) Afterall, these countries had companies in the WTCs, too.
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I found this from http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html :
The following quatrain has been circulating the Internet after the WTC bombings.
In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
two brothers torn? apart by chaos,
while the fortress endures, the great leader will sucumb.
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.
It is NOT by Nostradamus.
The original source may be http://www.ed.brocku.ca/~nmarshal/nostradamus.htm. ? Here is a short excerpt from that page.
How does this apply to Nostradamus? Well I will show you...
If I make say a thousand prophecies that are fairly abstract for example:
In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb
Well let us analyse this. For Example what does City of God mean? It could be Mecca, Medina, Rome, Jeruselum, Salt Lake City, or any holy city depending on your religion. What do I mean by thunder--a storm? War? EarthQuake? lots of stuff can be described by thunder. There are a lot of two brothers on this world (I think the Number runs among the Billions) and fortress edure's what--Besiegement, Famine, etc? What Great Leader? How will he succumb? To what?
The following quatrain has been circulating the Internet after the WTC bombings.
In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
two brothers torn? apart by chaos,
while the fortress endures, the great leader will sucumb.
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.
It is NOT by Nostradamus.
The original source may be http://www.ed.brocku.ca/~nmarshal/nostradamus.htm. ? Here is a short excerpt from that page.
How does this apply to Nostradamus? Well I will show you...
If I make say a thousand prophecies that are fairly abstract for example:
In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb
Well let us analyse this. For Example what does City of God mean? It could be Mecca, Medina, Rome, Jeruselum, Salt Lake City, or any holy city depending on your religion. What do I mean by thunder--a storm? War? EarthQuake? lots of stuff can be described by thunder. There are a lot of two brothers on this world (I think the Number runs among the Billions) and fortress edure's what--Besiegement, Famine, etc? What Great Leader? How will he succumb? To what?
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I found this info. on Nostradamus's predictions from a website:
"Nostradamus says that the war will be so terrible that the world will come face to face with final annihilation. Here, he implies that the war might involve some kind of horrible weapon, possibly nuclear. Nostradamus tells what the first target will be.
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
Fire approaches the great new city.
In this phrase, Nostradamus refers to a great city in the new world of America near forty-five degrees latitude. Experts agree this could only be New York.
By fire he will destroy their city,
A cold and cruel heart,
Blood will pour,
Mercy to none. (Guentte)
Although Nostradamus 's predictions for our future sound frightening he does give us some hope by telling us how this third world war will end. He says it will end as a result of an unexpected alliance.
When those of the Northern Pole are united,
In the East will be great fear and dread...
One day the two great leaders will be friends;
Their great powers will be seen to grow.
The New Land will be at the height of its power:
To the man of blood the number is reported.
The new land was a common term used by Nostradamus to refer to what we now call America. The countries of the northern pole could be Russia and the United States. We have recently seen the breakdown of Communism in Russia and an increasing friendship between Russia and the U.S. (Reader's Digest 515)."
Here is the web url for those interested in his predictions.
"Nostradamus says that the war will be so terrible that the world will come face to face with final annihilation. Here, he implies that the war might involve some kind of horrible weapon, possibly nuclear. Nostradamus tells what the first target will be.
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
Fire approaches the great new city.
In this phrase, Nostradamus refers to a great city in the new world of America near forty-five degrees latitude. Experts agree this could only be New York.
By fire he will destroy their city,
A cold and cruel heart,
Blood will pour,
Mercy to none. (Guentte)
Although Nostradamus 's predictions for our future sound frightening he does give us some hope by telling us how this third world war will end. He says it will end as a result of an unexpected alliance.
When those of the Northern Pole are united,
In the East will be great fear and dread...
One day the two great leaders will be friends;
Their great powers will be seen to grow.
The New Land will be at the height of its power:
To the man of blood the number is reported.
The new land was a common term used by Nostradamus to refer to what we now call America. The countries of the northern pole could be Russia and the United States. We have recently seen the breakdown of Communism in Russia and an increasing friendship between Russia and the U.S. (Reader's Digest 515)."
Here is the web url for those interested in his predictions.
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But are you aware of how many "uncivilized" countries have nuclear capabilities???
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First of all, as far as I know Nostradamus didn't predict specific years.
Secondly, he died in 1566. So it would've been truly impressive if he'd made a prediction in 1651.
Thirdly, it's all open to interpretation. Here's another one:
The fire by night will take hold in two lodgings,
Several within suffocated and roasted.
It will happen near two rivers as one:
Sun, Sagittarius and Capricorn all will be reduced.
I couldn't find anything about "twin brothers of oppression" in a quick search of Nostradamus websites.
Let's try to not go off the deep end here people.
Secondly, he died in 1566. So it would've been truly impressive if he'd made a prediction in 1651.
Thirdly, it's all open to interpretation. Here's another one:
The fire by night will take hold in two lodgings,
Several within suffocated and roasted.
It will happen near two rivers as one:
Sun, Sagittarius and Capricorn all will be reduced.
I couldn't find anything about "twin brothers of oppression" in a quick search of Nostradamus websites.
Let's try to not go off the deep end here people.
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Out of respect for racergirl's situation, I will refrain from continuing a political discussion of yesterday's events. I have, however, sent you a private message.
racergirl, my thoughts are with you and your family.
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someone forwarded me an email with the quote...i dont know the accuracy level, but there is definitely some truth to the fact that Nostradamus eerily correct in many of his predictions...
of course, this particular quote could have been twisted around (i havent seen his original writing) and it is undoubtedly open to interpretation...but i would dismiss it so quickly...do some research and you will see that Nostradamus was not a quack or whatever..and the concept of another war is certainly not crazy anymore. maybe two days ago, but see how much changes in 24 hours?
of course, this particular quote could have been twisted around (i havent seen his original writing) and it is undoubtedly open to interpretation...but i would dismiss it so quickly...do some research and you will see that Nostradamus was not a quack or whatever..and the concept of another war is certainly not crazy anymore. maybe two days ago, but see how much changes in 24 hours?
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Actually I am aware of how many countries have nuclear capabilities as I spent many years in Army Intelligence. ( no jokes from the peanut gallery on the oxymoron). It could matter initially, however, in the long run they are extremely limited in capability and funds...and at this point, allies...
