Worried about clinical experience. WAMC?

[SuperGreen]

Hi everyone! Will I need more clinical experience if I want to be competitive at a top program? I'm trying to decide whether I should take another gap year where I continue working in my research lab but also volunteer in Hospice/get my EMT certification and volunteer as an EMT or should I commit to applying this next cycle?

3.87 cGPA, 3.89 sGPA. 518 MCAT (130, 127, 130, 131)

Ohio resident, but have been in MA for the last 5 years and spent a few summers in MN.

Ethnicity: East Asian.

Undergraduate institution or category: Top LAC. First-gen college student.

Research Experience:
~1 year in hematology as a research technician.
~A summer in entomology.
A chemistry honors thesis.

Productivity:
I think by the time I leave the hematology lab, I should have my name on a couple publications but nothing significant.

Clinical Experience:
80 hours shadowing two physicians (pediatrics and hematology).
40 hours inpatient volunteer at a children's hospital.

Non-clinical volunteering:
20 hours virtual work with a school.

Extracurricular activities:
4 semesters as a chemistry lab TA.
2 semesters as a chemistry/genetics tutor.
300 hours as a classroom aid in an elementary school.
1 year as an RA.
400 hours at a summer program for preparing under-resourced students for college.

Honors:
Chemistry TA award.

I think if I took another year, I could potentially complete a project in the hematology lab and get a first authorship (but no guarantee). I'm also worried about losing my FAP award if I wait another year. So it comes down to me trying to decide whether I should take another gap year for a potential first authorship and more clinical experience but eat the cost of applications or apply this year and try my best to address the lack of clinical experience in my application. I would like to hear your advice because I'm kind of lost on what I should do.

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[Mr.Smile12]

I think your community service profile might need some real work. Did any of your activities really stretch you working with individuals in need? Tutoring and teaching in math and science is overrepresented among premeds as an activity; was this part of Teach for America or City Year? I'm hard pressed to see 100-150 hours of significant community service.

 

[SuperGreen]

I think your community service profile might need some real work. Did any of your activities really stretch you working with individuals in need? Tutoring and teaching in math and science is overrepresented among premeds as an activity; was this part of Teach for America or City Year? I'm hard pressed to see 100-150 hours of significant community service.

It was a program called Breakthrough Collaborative. I don't think it matches up to Teach for America, and I haven't heard of City Year before. I do think that one thing I would have liked to have done is do more community service, especially over a longer period of time. Would you mind if I start a conversation with you about what would be significant in terms of community service?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

It was a program called Breakthrough Collaborative. I don't think it matches up to Teach for America, and I haven't heard of City Year before. I do think that one thing I would have liked to have done is do more community service, especially over a longer period of time. Would you mind if I start a conversation with you about what would be significant in terms of community service?

I think many of us can give out general comments like @candbgirl .

 

[chilly_md]

Can you describe more what you did for Breakthrough Collaborative? It sounds like impactful work to help underrepresented students in the pre-college years.

A lot of times, students do volunteer work within their comfort zone ie free tutoring on campus or local school, fundraising through a student organization, unpaid sports coaching. Medicine is an altruistic field and schools believe the ideal candidate should have shown a dedication to helping those less fortunate or from marginalized communities. This can include experience in soup kitchen, homeless shelter, programs for those with disabilities or special needs and so forth. You would not be working around a college or settings that most people are familiar with in their day-to-day lives. Instead, you’d be helping those who need it most and seeing first-hand how different life can be.

 

[SuperGreen]

Can you describe more what you did for Breakthrough Collaborative? It sounds like impactful work to help underrepresented students in the pre-college years.

A lot of times, students do volunteer work within their comfort zone ie free tutoring on campus or local school, fundraising through a student organization, unpaid sports coaching. Medicine is an altruistic field and schools believe the ideal candidate should have shown a dedication to helping those less fortunate or from marginalized communities. This can include experience in soup kitchen, homeless shelter, programs for those with disabilities or special needs and so forth. You would not be working around a college or settings that most people are familiar with in their day-to-day lives. Instead, you’d be helping those who need it most and seeing first-hand how different life can be.

For the program, I taught two math classes a day but also did other programming for the students such as college workshops, outdoor activities, and field-trips. Almost all of the students I had worked with came from immigrant/low-income households. I would hope that this counts as community service, albeit it wasn't volunteering because I did receive a stipend for living expenses. I regret not working with the program for another summer; at the time I felt pressure to do more research/earn more money which landed me in the entomology lab. It was okay but looking back, I definitely would have done Breakthrough again.

Also, I'm sorry to redirect the flow of this thread - and thank you all for your advice - but I would like to hear more voices on whether it would be smart for me to take another gap year to do EMT work/hospice volunteering.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks for your description with Breakthrough Collaborative. So were you a fellow? It sounds like you were working essentially part or full time. When was this happening?

As for clinical experience, what do you think you still need? You listed 120 hours so you have at least a threshold number. Sure, getting more hours as an EMT could help, but I'm curious as to where you think you are missing insights.

 

[SuperGreen]

Thanks for your description with Breakthrough Collaborative. So we're you a fellow? It sounds like you were working essentially part or full time. When was this happening?

As for clinical experience, what do you think you still need? You listed 120 hours so you have at least a threshold number. Sure, getting more hours as an EMT could help, but I'm curious as to where you think you are missing insights.

I was a fellow! It was full time, but it felt like I was living and breathing Breakthrough because I had lived with other teachers during the summer. I loved the experience. This was the summer of 2018 right before I transitioned to premed my sophomore year.

As for your question about the clinical experience, I’ll start off by saying that honestly I had to think about my answer for a while. Thank you for that; it’s a good question. I think that for myself, the clinical experiences I have had are enough for me to say that I’m confident that I want to go to medical school. I also think that more facets of medicine would be good for me to experience just generally because there’s always new insights to gain. So I would say that there are definitely insights that would help me mold the way I would like to practice medicine in the future, but I am comfortable in saying that the experiences I have had are enough for me to commit to medicine for now.

But I think my biggest concern is what others may think when they see my clinical experiences, questioning whether I’m really dedicated to putting in the effort and committing to medicine for the long haul given as you said that 120 hours can be seen as just a threshold number. I like to consider myself as someone who puts in as much effort as he can into whatever he needs/wants to do, but that isn’t reflected in my clinical experiences.

I’m conflicted because not only do I want to put in the effort and for my experiences to reflect that, I want to channel my energy into what will most effectively set me up for success/shape my career in medicine. If I could get into medical school this next cycle, I’m under the belief that medical school would open up clinical opportunities where I can put my efforts into and gain better insights into the type of medicine I want to do than what I can accomplish outside of medical school. However, I am open to doing more before medical school if it means I can become a better applicant and have better chances in where I can attend. I have some personal reasons for wanting to be in specific geographic locations, and it would mean a lot to me to one day be there. I know there’s no guarantees, but I want to put myself in the best situation possible; I just don’t know what exactly I need to do to get there.

Sorry for the long response!

 

[chzsux]

My two cents as someone pretty similar in terms of stats (3.7/518): it's not worth it to apply without sufficient clinical hours. With a 3.9/518, do you have a chance to secure an acceptance? Of course you do, especially if you apply to a bunch of schools. However, if you end up waiting a year and accumulating a bunch of clinical and some nonclinical volunteering/experiences, you would practically be a shoe-in.

During my first cycle, I applied with good stats and a pretty complete app otherwise (over 500 hours working with inmates/low-income residents, 2-3 leadership positions, decent research with 3 poster presentations, was a varsity athlete, etc.) with bad clinical hours and all that ended up happening was a bunch of interviews that turned into WL -> R. While I do think that improving things like my writing/interview skills that cycle could have perhaps secured me an acceptance, I think to a certain extent the lack of clinical hours prevented me from having a solid foundation to base my "why medicine" on which was definitely detrimental. Furthermore, since I was preoccupied with applying that cycle, I wasted a ton of money, was very stressed all the time, and was delayed on finding additional clinical experiences. And although I was able to succeed the second time around, I have always regretted applying the first time when I clearly was not ready.

 

[candbgirl]

You only have 40 hours of clinical experience. I’ve usually separated the shadowing because they are different activities-one is passive and one is active! I do agree that you need more nonclinical volunteering focusing on the unserved/underserved in your community. Twenty hours isn’t much. You need 200+ Hours in clinical experiences(can be paid or volunteer) and nonclinical volunteering. (You have enough shadowing . )You have to get out of your comfort zone and stretch your ability to interact with all types of people.
So yes, an additional Gap year could certainly help you build a competitive application!

 

[chilly_md]

Your 80 hours of shadowing are considered a separate category on AMCAS. So you have 40 hours of clinical experience. I would recommend taking a gap year to continue doing hospice volunteering as well as EMT work. It will be hard to land interviews with such a low number currently and I agree with your assessment that those reading your application may question your commitment to or understanding of the field of medicine. If you can volunteer with non-students who are from an underserved background, that would get you out of your comfort zone and give you a broader prospective on life.

Candbgirl was thinking the same thing while I was typing this. You would likely would have more options to choose from and maybe get your preferred geographic area if you waited a year to apply.