Worried that my patient transporter job is not considered clinical?

[doctorwannabe1234]

I just got a job as a “Diagnostic Imaging Attendant” in the radiology department at my local hospital. The job description is: Transports patients, equipment and supplies to and from all departments. Performs clerical work, develops and processes films and assists Radiologist and Technologists during examinations. Responsible for the delivery of patient care through the process of assessment, planning, implementation and evaluation as appropriate to the ages of the patients served, based on the area of clinical practice.

I came across a post on the MCAT bros Facebook group and people were saying that patient transport is controversial and is not always considered clinical experience. I start Monday but now I’m discouraged, I’ve been a pharmacy tech for a year and a half and I know that’s definitely considered clinical. I plan on applying in 2022 so I have time but I’m still worried. Thoughts??

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[Isoval]

Transporting oxygen tanks: not a clinical experience.

Transporting cadavers: not a clinical experience.

Transporting breathing patients: clinical experience.

 

[doctorwannabe1234]

Transporting oxygen tanks: not a clinical experience.

Transporting cadavers: not a clinical experience.

Transporting breathing patients: clinical experience.

Thank you. But why is this considered controversial for some people/schools?

 

[r2med]

I remember seeing on @LizzyM 's signature that if you can smell the patients, it is clinical experience!

 

[Goro]

I just got a job as a “Diagnostic Imaging Attendant” in the radiology department at my local hospital. The job description is: Transports patients, equipment and supplies to and from all departments. Performs clerical work, develops and processes films and assists Radiologist and Technologists during examinations. Responsible for the delivery of patient care through the process of assessment, planning, implementation and evaluation as appropriate to the ages of the patients served, based on the area of clinical practice.

I came across a post on the MCAT bros Facebook group and people were saying that patient transport is controversial and is not always considered clinical experience. I start Monday but now I’m discouraged, I’ve been a pharmacy tech for a year and a half and I know that’s definitely considered clinical. I plan on applying in 2022 so I have time but I’m still worried. Thoughts??

Maybe on the planet Zuul, but here on the planet Earth transporting patients is clinical experience.

 

[candbgirl]

Thank you. But why is this considered controversial for some people/schools?

I never knew it was controversial.🤔

 

[doctorwannabe1234]

I never knew it was controversial.🤔

People were arguing that it wasn’t clinical because I’m technically not involved in the diagnosis or treatment of the patient. And that it’s not that great of an experience compared to EMT, CNA, PCT..

 

[candbgirl]

People were arguing that it wasn’t clinical because I’m technically not involved in the diagnosis or treatment of the patient. And that it’s not that great of an experience compared to EMT, CNA, PCT..

If you are transporting patients and interacting with patients and even watching docs interact with patients is certainly clinical experience. Of course I have rather skewed opinions of how scribes and EMTs. I think your job is good experience. Besides, aren’t you a premed? How could you be involved in diagnosing or treating a patient?

 

[LizzyM]

Diagnosing and treating patients is the job of licensed physicians. You can't be doing that until you graduate medical school. In the meantime, being able to safely operate a wheelchair or gurney is within your scope of practice. if you can make the trip both safe and pleasant for the patient, all the better.

 

[deleted555445]

People were arguing that it wasn’t clinical because I’m technically not involved in the diagnosis or treatment of the patient. And that it’s not that great of an experience compared to EMT, CNA, PCT..

One of the largest barriers to entry that no one ever talks about for becoming a doctor is that they require you to have already been a doctor before applying.

 

[DNAJB6]

Interestingly, following the same logic, I've heard some claim that scribing doesn't count as clinical either. I think that's a minority view.

 

[r2med]

One of the largest barriers to entry that no one ever talks about for becoming a doctor is that they require you to have already been a doctor before applying.

You are expected to know what it is to be a doctor, but I don't think there is anything that requires one to have diagnosed or treated patients before applying to med school.

 

[r2med]

Interestingly, following the same logic, I've heard some claim that scribing doesn't count as clinical either. I think that's a minority view.

I guess the definition for "clinical experience" is "direct patient care". Scribing may not count as "direct", while transporting patients will. Right?

 

[LizzyM]

The definition, curiously, is different for physician assistant programs than for MD and DO programs. PA programs, and a minority of MD programs, expect you to have touched patients and provided hands-on care as a patient care technician (what used to be called nurses aide), EMT, or phlebotomist. Most MD programs, as per my sig line, are happy if you have been in close proximity to the patients but not requiring or expecting that you are authorized to touch them.

 

[DNAJB6]

The definition, curiously, is different for physician assistant programs than for MD and DO programs. PA programs, and a minority of MD programs, expect you to have touched patients and provided hands-on care as a patient care technician (what used to be called nurses aide), EMT, or phlebotomist. Most MD programs, as per my sig line, are happy if you have been in close proximity to the patients but not requiring or expecting that you are authorized to touch them.

Do you have a list of the MD schools? Also does taking oral histories qualify under that minority definition?

 

[deleted555445]

You are expected to know what it is to be a doctor, but I don't think there is anything that requires one to have diagnosed or treated patients before applying to med school.

Yes, I was being sarcastic about the expectations people sometimes claim medical schools have about clinical experience

 

[LizzyM]

Do you have a list of the MD schools? Also does taking oral histories qualify under that minority definition?

I don't have an exhaustive or authoritative list of schools that are looking for direct patient care experience.
Oral histories? Isn't that when you record an individual's recollections of a historical event or their involvement in a historically significant movement? How would that be clinical? Or do you mean the "history" portion of a "history and physical" that is obtained from a patient who seeks care? Those usually aren't called "oral histories".

I don't think that schools that want you do have had a job in providing patient care would count oral history of any type as "clinical care".

 

[r2med]

I don't have an exhaustive or authoritative list of schools that are looking for direct patient care experience.
Oral histories? Isn't that when you record an individual's recollections of a historical event or their involvement in a historically significant movement? How would that be clinical? Or do you mean the "history" portion of a "history and physical" that is obtained from a patient who seeks care? Those usually aren't called "oral histories".

I don't think that schools that want you do have had a job in providing patient care would count oral history of any type as "clinical care".

I am not the OP of that statement, but I believe he/she must have meant HPI obtained orally. Not sure if there is any other way of obtaining HPI. Anyways, in order to obtain HPI, not sure what the licensure requirements are, but I know the doctors I shadowed usually had only their nurses do the HPI. So, if the OP did get an opportunity to do this, I suspect it is clinical - whether done in-person or using a virtual telehealth platform. No?

 

[LizzyM]

I am not the OP of that statement, but I believe he/she must have meant HPI obtained orally. Not sure if there is any other way of obtaining HPI. Anyways, in order to obtain HPI, not sure what the licensure requirements are, but I know the doctors I shadowed usually had only their nurses do the HPI. So, if the OP did get an opportunity to do this, I suspect it is clinical - whether done in-person or using a virtual telehealth platform. No?

One can ask a patient to fill out a questionnaire as a way of initially collecting a history. That would be in writing. I've been in this business for >40 years and I've never heard of a medical history being called an "oral history".

If a school is looking for students who have experience of physically caring for patients, I think that merely taking a medical history from a patient would be considered a weak experience.

 

[r2med]

One can ask a patient to fill out a questionnaire as a way of initially collecting a history. That would be in writing. I've been in this business for >40 years and I've never heard of a medical history being called an "oral history".

If a school is looking for students who have experience of physically caring for patients, I think that merely taking a medical history from a patient would be considered a weak experience.

I also don't remember it being called oral history. But I know it is done orally by nurses. Wouldn't student learn more taking medical histories than pushing wheelchairs? Why would the latter be considered clinical and not the former? Just curious.

 

[Goro]

People were arguing that it wasn’t clinical because I’m technically not involved in the diagnosis or treatment of the patient. And that it’s not that great of an experience compared to EMT, CNA, PCT..

Those people are outright idiots!

 

[LizzyM]

I also don't remember it being called oral history. But I know it is done orally by nurses. Wouldn't student learn more taking medical histories than pushing wheelchairs? Why would the latter be considered clinical and not the former? Just curious.

No one said it is not "clinical experience" by my definition both patient transport and interviewing patients would be, but schools that want to see patients "getting their hands (or gloves) dirty" would not be very impressed by either of those and would prefer to see employment as a PCT, EMT, etc.

And the point here is to learn about the hierarchy and systems in place in the hospital to protect patients and their privacy, to control infections, to manage emergencies (e.g. what to do in case of fire, etc), how to make patients feel safe and comfortable, how to work as part of a team, how to deal with people who are not at their best (afraid, frustrated, nervous, grieving). The point of volunteering as a pre-med is not to begin to learn medicine but to begin to learn about human behavior and human nature.

 

[deleted1085158]

It's clinical but that's not the point. What really matters is what you get out of the experience and how the experience changes your perception of a future medical career.

When you look at it like that, there are other "higher quality" clinical experiences that someone else can write about in their PS or talk about in an interview.

For example, I don't think comparing patient transporting to scribing is equivalent and I don't think comparing scribing to EMS crew chief is equivalent.

Think more about what you're going to learn from the experience. Don't look at it like it's a box you need to check.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Are you planning to have any other clinical experiences or will this be your only one?

 

[doctorwannabe1234]

Are you planning to have any other clinical experiences or will this be your only one?

I also have about 30 hours volunteering at a different hospital basically doing the same thing. This job is only per diem, so once this semester is over I plan on supplementing it with some other form of clinical experience.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

Unless things have changed over the past couple of yrs (very possible) not every institution considers pharmacy tech clinical. I worked as one for about 1,000 hours and specifically asked several schools in 2018 if I could count it as clinical. Only one, ATSU COM if I recall correctly, said yes. I noticed more schools specify pharmacy tech is clinical experience when I started applying in the 2020-2021 cycle but I’m not sure if it’s accepted across the board yet.

 

[wondervisions]

People were arguing that it wasn’t clinical because I’m technically not involved in the diagnosis or treatment of the patient. And that it’s not that great of an experience compared to EMT, CNA, PCT..

IMO that is an unreasonable expectation of pre-meds.

 

[GreenDuck12]

N=1 but I did patient transport on a volunteer basis and had no problems with a perceived lack of clinical experience.

 

[LizzyM]

IMO that is an unreasonable expectation of pre-meds.

Schools don't have to have reasonable expectations... there are far too many applicants so they can set up any hoops they wish and they'll find 100+ qualified applicants who have jumped through those hoops on the way to matriculating there.

 

[deleted1085158]

IMO that is an unreasonable expectation of pre-meds.

I agree, but some of the top MD programs are incredibly snooty. I was watching some interviews on YT with adcoms from some top schools like Hopkins and by the way they speak and the jargon they use, it appears that they really do want students that are just like Carlton Banks. You better believe those schools will look down on patient transporters.

 

[wondervisions]

Schools don't have to have reasonable expectations... there are far too many applicants so they can set up any hoops they wish and they'll find 100+ qualified applicants who have jumped through those hoops on the way to matriculating there.

I just don't see how a pre-med could reasonably get this sort of experience through shadowing or clinical volunteering. Essentially the expectation becomes employment as a CNA/nurse/EMT before medical school.

 

[r2med]

I just don't see how a pre-med could reasonably get this sort of experience through shadowing or clinical volunteering. Essentially the expectation becomes employment as a CNA/nurse/EMT before medical school.

I have none of those and still 2As. Even people I know with T3 As do not have these experiences.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I just don't see how a pre-med could reasonably get this sort of experience through shadowing or clinical volunteering. Essentially the expectation becomes employment as a CNA/nurse/EMT before medical school.

My kid also has none of them but has multiple As and double digit interviews. However his app is research heavy and mostly got positive response from research heavy schools only. So it may come down to which schools you are targeting.

 

[LizzyM]

I just don't see how a pre-med could reasonably get this sort of experience through shadowing or clinical volunteering. Essentially the expectation becomes employment as a CNA/nurse/EMT before medical school.

Not many schools require a year of work experience but some do and they are not lacking for applicants.

 

[wondervisions]

I have none of those and still 2As. Even people I know with T3 As do not have these experiences.

Neither did I, and I got accepted. What I was pointing out was that the expectation that pre-meds are directly involved in the diagnosis or treatment of patients in order to be competitive is unreasonable.