Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History

[BLADEMDA]

Gunman in Orlando Pledged Allegiance to ISIS Before Attack

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/13/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting.html?_r=0

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[BLADEMDA]

As he had after previous mass shootings, the president said the shooting demonstrated again the need for what he called “common sense” gun measures.

“This massacre is therefore a further reminder of how easy it is for someone to get their hands on a weapon that lets them shoot people in a school or a house of worship or a movie theater or a nightclub,” Mr. Obama said. “We have to decide if that’s the kind of country we want to be. To actively do nothing is a decision as well.”

The shooting was the worst terrorist attack on American soil since Sept. 11, 2001, and the deadliest attack in the nation’s history on a specifically gay gathering. The F.B.I. set up a hotline for tips.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Here is an image of the information regarding his security license:

 

[BLADEMDA]

Who is suspected Orlando gunman Omar Mateen?

 

[caligas]

We've made our choice. We want our guns. Now let's decide who can use which potty.

 

[Planktonmd]

Here is an image of the information regarding his security license:

I am not sure what you are trying to say???
He attacked a gay bar, which means he does not like gays, or his God told him that gays are sinners!
This could be very easily a member of an extreme right conservative group like the ones you support!
What if his name was John Smith?

 

[deleted59964]

Gut renching.
Such a tragedy will devastate so many friends and family....

 

[BLADEMDA]

I am not sure what you are trying to say???
He attacked a gay bar, which means he does not like gays, or his God told him that gays are sinners!
This could be very easily a member of an extreme right conservative group like the ones you support!
What if his name was John Smith?

"Extreme right Conservative Group"? Violence is the opposite of the teaching of Jesus and his Disciples. The Word is quite clear on how we are supposed to treat others in this world.

I take issue with you statement about those who I support because we are all sinners and must atone for that sin. The very essence of the New Testament is to love your neighbor as yourself and worship the Lord God above with all your heart and soul.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.

Matthew 10:13
If the home is worthy, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you.

Mark 6:11
If anyone will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that place, as a testimony against them.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you” (Matthew 5:38-39, 43-44).

 

[OB1🤙]

We've made our choice. We want our guns. Now let's decide who can use which potty.

Yeah, pretty much this.

I'm all for responsible gun ownership and second amendment rights. pgg has eloquently pontificated on the issue.

But the deal is we get stuff like this. Nothing to do about it. That's just the bargain we make.

 

[deleted59964]

Yeah, pretty much this.

I'm all for responsible gun ownership and second amendment rights. pgg has eloquently pontificated on the issue.

But the deal is we get stuff like this. Nothing to do about it. That's just the bargain we make.

I'm stunned.
You really are just resigned to the idea that nothing will change, and mass shootings will continue?

 

[BLADEMDA]

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/marr...d-the-family-in-islam-2-728.jpg?cb=1302603006

 

[zero0]

I'm stunned.
You really are just resigned to the idea that nothing will change, and mass shootings will continue?

Well it's not like if we illegalize guns that gun violence will just magically end. Take a look at Mexico. Criminals will always be able to get guns. The only thing that will change is we won't be able to defend ourselves anymore.

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

Who is suspected Orlando gunman Omar Mateen?

This guy was radicalized to believe Gays deserved the death sentence and the fact they were American gays made his killing spree all the more acceptable due to ISIS ideology. He carefully researched that night club and knew his attack there would result in mass casualties.

 

[pgg]

If this turns into a gun control debate thread, I'm going to sit this one out. If anyone wonders what I think about these events and gun control, you can find the post Sandy Hook threads.

If this turns into a religious mudslinging fest full of blanket condemnations of a billion of these people or a billion of those people, the thread will be closed. Off topic is obviously OK in this forum, but the TOS still apply.

 

[BLADEMDA]

If this turns into a gun control debate thread, I'm going to sit this one out. If anyone wonders what I think about these events and gun control, you can find the post Sandy Hook threads.

If this turns into a religious mudslinging fest full of blanket condemnations of a billion of these people or a billion of those people, the thread will be closed. Off topic is obviously OK in this forum, but the TOS still apply.

Radical Islam is the problem and not all of Islam. But, the fact remains that the Muslim community does seem to be close knit and it isn't easy for the FBI to find the radical ones from among the U.S. population. As per all religions the teachings of the religious leaders spread to their followers which can have major consequences.

 

[chfo]

 

[pgg]

Radical Islam is the problem and not all of Islam.

So don't post memes that ignore that distinction.

 

[BLADEMDA]

If this turns into a gun control debate thread, I'm going to sit this one out. If anyone wonders what I think about these events and gun control, you can find the post Sandy Hook threads.

If this turns into a religious mudslinging fest full of blanket condemnations of a billion of these people or a billion of those people, the thread will be closed. Off topic is obviously OK in this forum, but the TOS still apply.

 

[chfo]

 

[chfo]

 

[chfo]

 

[BLADEMDA]

So don't post memes that ignore that distinction.

Did the FBI miss this guy in 2013 and 2014? How many other U.S. Citizens will become radicalized? In our society based on laws where you are presumed innocent until proven guilty what more could the FBI have done to prevent this tragedy?

Sadly, The solution to this problem is to go back to Iraq/Syria and wipe ISIS off the face of the Earth. Even though this solution will require the sacrifice of U.S. men and women on the ground it must be done. We broke Iraq into pieces during the BUSH era then withdrew all out troops under Obama with the end result being ISIS and Chaos in that region.

 

[chfo]

Did the FBI miss this guy in 2013 and 2014? How many other U.S. Citizens will become radicalized? In our society based on laws where you are presumed innocent until proven guilty what more could the FBI have done to prevent this tragedy?

Sadly, The solution to this problem is to go back to Iraq/Syria and wipe ISIS off the face of the Earth. Even though this solution will require the sacrifice of U.S. men and women on the ground it must be done. We broke Iraq into pieces during the BUSH era then withdrew all out troops under Obama with the end result being ISIS and Chaos in that region.

"We need to bomb the hell out of ISIS."

 

[chfo]

 

[ChiDO]

The problem with gun control laws is that criminals do not follow the laws. They'll find a way to get the guns. Take a look at Chicago for example. The black on black crime in the south side of the city is unbelievable. Every weekend multiple people dead and shot, yet Chicago has "banned" all guns.

My heart goes out to the victims and their families. There is no good solution to this problem. Islam is a very violent religion to begin with and ISIS is promoting this radical islam and "lone wolf" mentality.

 

[deepstate2016]

Quote "wiping out ISIS" will not solve this problem. They want us there. They want us troops to kill Muslims to radicalized more, so they can say that we are crusaders. To make them look like freedom fighters.
So no to boost on the ground and yes to proxies bleeding and dieing for us.

 

[chfo]

Quote "wiping out ISIS" will not solve this problem. They want us there. They want us troops to kill Muslims to radicalized more, so they can say that we are crusaders. To make them look like freedom fighters.
So no to boost on the ground and yes to proxies bleeding and dieing for us.

We just need to focus airstrikes on the entire Isis operation, from top to bottom. Obama refuses to do it because of collateral damage and "hurting the environment".

 

[drmwvr]

What does "radicalize" even mean? That implies some sort of involuntarily magical transformation with some sort of neutral medium at the outset. Using that dumb suggestion, Catholics and Methodists could be "radicalized" to walk into a gay bar and decimate 100 people.

God help us 20 years from now when we look back at the hesitation to act that would make Neville Chamberlain blush.

 

[CantStop_WontStop]

because of collateral damage and "hurting the environment

You say that like it's a bad thing... "radical" anything is an infliction of the mind, and in this particular case involves people already interwoven throughout populations of multiple countries across the globe. Direct warfare will not erase an idea from a persons mind located thousands of miles away, and will most likely strengthen beliefs. In a forum full of hopeful and actual physicians I would think that innocent lives aka "collateral damage" and ruining the environment would actually mean something. Instead of billions of dollars per year on useless military spending, why not cut certain programs and provide government subsidies to US based businesses that want to increase security protocols like metal detectors, armed security, as well as mental health programs, training programs for local law enforcement to improve tactical response times, and a whole host of other more appropriate spending plans to decrease risk of these individuals being successful at this nonsensical killing... gun laws and war won't stop crazy.

 

[ChiDO]

http://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legisl...-Survey-11-key-findings-on-officers-thoughts/

Interesting survey about gun control from law enforcement officials.

 

[caligas]

I'm stunned.
You really are just resigned to the idea that nothing will change, and mass shootings will continue?

I am resigned to that for now.

As long as people (presumably physicians or student doctors) post that we shouldn't have gun control laws because people won't follow the laws, than, yes, I give up. For now.

 

[deleted59964]

If this turns into a gun control debate thread, I'm going to sit this one out. If anyone wonders what I think about these events and gun control, you can find the post Sandy Hook threads.

If this turns into a religious mudslinging fest full of blanket condemnations of a billion of these people or a billion of those people, the thread will be closed. Off topic is obviously OK in this forum, but the TOS still apply.

I think both of these things have already happened.
Nothing positive can come from this thread

 

[CantStop_WontStop]

There's always this idea thrown around during times like these that say if every citizen had a concealed firearm during these incidents that someone would have stopped the shooting.... I'm not saying that I think it's right or wrong because I just don't know for sure, but I never hear about proper training for firearms being a requirement... to me, "more permissive" concealed carry permits sounds like it's easier for just about anyone to get a concealed weapon... but just because people can get a weapon doesn't mean they should. How many people in society are actually capable of being in a traumatically stressful situation while using a firearm appropriately? what stops a chain reaction of friendly fire once the shooting begins because nobody knows who is the actual "bad-guy" but just cares about saving themselves and their loved ones, so they decide to shoot everyone with a gun that isn't part of their group?

 

[caligas]

There's always this idea thrown around during times like these that say if every citizen had a concealed firearm during these incidents that someone would have stopped the shooting.... I'm not saying that I think it's right or wrong because I just don't know for sure, but I never hear about proper training for firearms being a requirement... to me, "more permissive" concealed carry permits sounds like it's easier for just about anyone to get a concealed weapon... but just because people can get a weapon doesn't mean they should. How many people in society are actually capable of being in a traumatically stressful situation while using a firearm appropriately? what stops a chain reaction of friendly fire once the shooting begins because nobody knows who is the actual "bad-guy" but just cares about saving themselves and their loved ones, so they decide to shoot everyone with a gun that isn't part of their group?

It works:

http://southpark.cc.com/clips/wisksr/welcome-to-the-gun-show

 

[CantStop_WontStop]

Can't view the link but I'll have to submit... Since south park enacted it, it must be true, kudos.

 

[deleted59964]

It works:

http://southpark.cc.com/clips/wisksr/welcome-to-the-gun-show

clearly I was wrong.

I raise you

 

[lymphocyte]

Ronald Reagan: "It's time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." The Pulse Shooting was one guy, not a religion or even a particularly religious guy, and he alone is accountable for his actions.

Also, over 100 people were murdered or injured in Orlando with the AR-15, a gun that was ILLEGAL to own until 2004 when the Assault Weapons Ban lapsed (the same ban that Ronald Reagan supported). Since then, 8 out of 10 of the worst gun-massacres have occurred, all involving the AR-15. This gun has been used to slaughter first graders in Sandy Hook, movie-goers in Aurora, and workers at a holiday party in San Bernardino. We might not have been able to prevent these tragedies, but we could almost have certainly limited thier scope. It's harder to get a driver's licence than to buy a semi-automatic rifle. How did we let ourselves get to this point?

Even though this solution will require the sacrifice of U.S. men and women on the ground it must be done.

@BLADEMDA I'm sure you'll be among the first to volunteer!

 

[CantStop_WontStop]

In America, it's harder to get a driver's licence than to buy a semi-automatic rifle. How did we let ourselves get to this point?

In America it's harder to get good pizza than it is to get a semiautomatic weapon... That's definitely a tragedy. I would much rather have a quality slice for a last meal than a bullet.

 

[lymphocyte]

In America it's harder to get good pizza than it is to get a semiautomatic weapon... That's definitely a tragedy. I would much rather have a quality slice for a last meal than a bullet.

50+ Americans died you pre-med dingus. Show some respect. I'm tapping out of this conversation.

 

[Onefellswoop87]

There's always this idea thrown around during times like these that say if every citizen had a concealed firearm during these incidents that someone would have stopped the shooting.... I'm not saying that I think it's right or wrong because I just don't know for sure, but I never hear about proper training for firearms being a requirement... to me, "more permissive" concealed carry permits sounds like it's easier for just about anyone to get a concealed weapon... but just because people can get a weapon doesn't mean they should. How many people in society are actually capable of being in a traumatically stressful situation while using a firearm appropriately? what stops a chain reaction of friendly fire once the shooting begins because nobody knows who is the actual "bad-guy" but just cares about saving themselves and their loved ones, so they decide to shoot everyone with a gun that isn't part of their group?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/oregon-shooting-gun-laws-213222

This was an interesting discussion topic after the Oregon shooting, because that was at one of the non "no-gun" zones. Some people were armed at the campus and very nearby, but a few interviewed said they decided not to intervene for a combination of lack of information, not wanting to add to confusion/pandemonium, and thinking it was better to wait for authorities.

I understand data is not the plural of anecdote and there are other examples where concealed carry permits halted a further tragedy. But it does underscore there is no easy answer.

 

[CantStop_WontStop]

50+ Americans died you pre-med dingus. I'm tapping out of this conversation.

Pardon my fecetiousness, I didn't mean to offend. The point of my comment was actually agreeing with you. Incidents like this are very nonsensical and tragic. Until we as a society figure out a way to prevent this from happening it will continue to happen, yet we refuse policy change on multiple levels (not just gun control) and are still shocked/play into the media masturbation when it happens again.

 

[CantStop_WontStop]

@Fluffhead87 that was an interesting theme, and ultimately I think it made a key point... The vast majority of these perpetrators are on suicide missions, and the congested arenas that they take place in are ultimately the key to their success... We obviously can't dismantle society to accomodate psycopaths so the only logical deterrent is make it harder for them to access weapons and/or access points of entry to buildings and events. The common argument is that gun control doesn't stop criminals, and I think that might be true for gangsters, drug dealers and other high level criminals, but I live in a state with strict gun laws and as such would have no idea who to approach to get a effin' AR15!!!... It only seems like common sense to make it harder for them to gain access to weapons as well as access to locations.

 

[caligas]

@Fluffhead87 that was an interesting theme, and ultimately I think it made a key point... The vast majority of these perpetrators are on suicide missions, and the congested arenas that they take place in are ultimately the key to their success... We obviously can't dismantle society to accomodate psycopaths so the only logical deterrent is make it harder for them to access weapons and/or access points of entry to buildings and events. The common argument is that gun control doesn't stop criminals, and I think that might be true for gangsters, drug dealers and other high level criminals, but I live in a state with strict gun laws and as such would have no idea who to approach to get a effin' AR15!!!... It only seems like common sense to make it harder for them to gain access to weapons as well as access to locations.

Slippery slope brah. Make it harder and pretty soon it's nazi Germany, or at least Panem.

 

[CantStop_WontStop]

Can't say I disagree... Personally I was trained safely with firearms at a young age and believe they have their place in society, but I can't pretend that we don't have a cultural issue going on with misuse (grossly understated) of firearms in the US... I would trade in my firearms in a heartbeat if it meant saving 1 life let alone 50 or 100... Problem is that's a leap of faith the vast majority don't want to take.

 

[lymphocyte]

.

 

[Planktonmd]

The world would be a much better place if people just took their crazy pills regularly, and that includes certain regular posters who suddenly became experts on religion!
I mean when someone shifts from copying and pasting random medical articles to randomly copying and pasting the bible it is very alarming! what's next? running naked in the streets??

 

[BLADEMDA]

The world would be a much better place if people just took their crazy pills regularly, and that includes certain regular posters who suddenly became experts on religion!
I mean when someone shifts from copying and pasting random medical articles to randomly copying and pasting the bible it is very alarming! what's next? running naked in the streets??

Nothing "random" about my response to your accusations that Christians in the USA support violence against their fellow man of any religion, sexual orientation, race, etc. That isn't the teachings of Jesus or the theme of the New Testament. I do concede there are crazy people on the "right" who preach hatred and violence against certain groups but that is simply false teachings of the Gospel.

As for the Muslim Faith this thread isn't an attack on that religion but to ignore the role it may have played (or not have played) in this tragedy doesn't get to the root of the issue. There are a few Imams who encourage violence and Jihad against Americans particularly Gay Americans.

 

[lymphocyte]

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you” (Matthew 5:38-39, 43-44).

The solution to this problem is to go back to Iraq/Syria and wipe ISIS off the face of the Earth. Even though this solution will require the sacrifice of U.S. men and women on the ground it must be done.

The cognitive dissonance...