Worth it to become an EMT/Paramedic to get into med school?

[racataca]

So I'm going to go to med school, come hell or high water. I'm 25 and I'm beginning my prerequisites, so this semester I'll be taking chemistry and psychology (as my goal school requires three behavioral science classes). I figure if I map it out right, taking one-two science classes a semester, I'll be ready for the MCAT by spring of 2012, and will be admitted into the class of Fall 2013.

My question is this: would it be beneficial to me to get my EMT license? I ask because I have a pretty solid, steady job in education right now, making 28K a year, that I just started 2 months ago. I plan on shadowing doctors on the weekend, but would being an EMT be more impressive to the admissions board? If I did get my license, I probably wouldn't be able to work in the field for more than about 6 months before (hopefully) starting med school. Also if I pursued this, I'd be upping my class load from 2 classes/semester to 4 classes a semester, which wouldn't be a big deal except for that at one point, I'll be taking physics + ochem together.

Other possibly relevant experience includes working in an ER as the receptionist for 3 years, the Peace Corps (environmental health - teaching public health, nutrition, sex-ed), working with the Ministry of Health Panama (creating public health programs, going on medical tours and taking vital signs).

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[Barcu]

So I'm going to go to med school, come hell or high water. I'm 25 and I'm beginning my prerequisites, so this semester I'll be taking chemistry and psychology (as my goal school requires three behavioral science classes). I figure if I map it out right, taking one-two science classes a semester, I'll be ready for the MCAT by spring of 2012, and will be admitted into the class of Fall 2013.

My question is this: would it be beneficial to me to get my EMT license? I ask because I have a pretty solid, steady job in education right now, making 28K a year, that I just started 2 months ago. I plan on shadowing doctors on the weekend, but would being an EMT be more impressive to the admissions board? If I did get my license, I probably wouldn't be able to work in the field for more than about 6 months before (hopefully) starting med school. Also if I pursued this, I'd be upping my class load from 2 classes/semester to 4 classes a semester, which wouldn't be a big deal except for that at one point, I'll be taking physics + ochem together.

Other possibly relevant experience includes working in an ER as the receptionist for 3 years, the Peace Corps (environmental health - teaching public health, nutrition, sex-ed), working with the Ministry of Health Panama (creating public health programs, going on medical tours and taking vital signs).

The general consensus is that an EMT license is a waste of time. You don't really need it, and it is hard to find jobs in many places. Plus, it def does not seem worth it to do it for only 6 months.

What you need is some more clinical experience (seems like you have some good stuff already, but you need to keep doing it), which just really requires volunteering at a hospital for a few hours a week. Find some place you want to volunteer and stick with that until you apply. Many have recommended free clinics or community health centers. These have fewer volunteers, and you get more chances to do things. I was actually trained as a medical assistant and have actual interactions with patients, which never happened when I volunteered at a large hospital.

And shadowing is good, but it doesn't count as clinical experience.

 

[racataca]

Yeah, immediately after having written my post, I found the EMT/Paramedic FAQ that someone did in 2006, and I have to say, I agreed with its logic (why steal a place from someone who really wants to do that as a career, etc.).

As for clinical experience, I'm in Chicago, so the volunteering at clinics sounds like a great idea. Shadowing doctors/getting into hospitals around here is a difficult process, what with the major hospitals being U of C, Rush, Northwestern, etc. EVERYONE wants to shadow, so it's going to be the biggest stroke of luck ever if they let me.

I never thought about volunteering at the clinics though! Thanks!

 

[armybound]

I agree with shadowing and volunteering and that EMT would be a waste of your time.

People sometimes think it's unique and incredibly impressive but it's really not. I went on several interviews over my 3 years of applying and I don't think being an EMT came up even once.

 

[Dial71]

OP, given your EC's already, I think that an EMT cert would not be as helpful for you. Factor in the time needed to process your cert (typically a month or two) and then the time you would spend job hunting, you would end up working maybe two to three months before med-school.

As for what the other posters have said, your mileage may vary. Myself, I worked as an ER-tech for about 2.5 years now. My clinical experience constitutes a major portion of my application and it has come up at all my interviews thus far. My interviewers looked favorably on the experience.

Bottom line, though, it is really hard to find a job as an ER-tech right now. The market is absolutely saturated right now. While its possible to get a job on an interfacility truck, I doubt that its the clinical experience you want (think driving Ms. Daisy).

I would not recommend it to applicants today, unless: A. they have a hospital job lined up, or B. they actually want to drive interfacility, with the chance of being promoted to BLS (responding to minor 911 calls).

Go into this with eyes wide open.

 

[ilikepancakes]

are there volunteer opportunities? i volunteered one night a week for two years with a full time job and a part time job. the emt experience came up in every interview and i got into my first choice school. while i would not recommend it as a full time job, volunteering does provide you with exposure and great stories to talk about.

 

[lftbndlbrnchblk]

I agree with Dial71, I'd only do it if you have something guaranteed down the line but don't expect to have all these doors open for you upon completion of your EMT course. ER tech experience is arguably the best hands-on stuff you'll get. I enjoyed my time working as one. Another good job you can do in the ER is to be a physician's scribe. See if you can find a position doing that in the area.

 

[duress]

Paramedic? Absolutely not. By the time you get your 2 years of training you're already applying to med, and you've wasted a lot of time, other people's spots, and what not.

As for EMT, I don't agree that it's a waste of time unless you make it one. If can you use your EMT cert to get clinical experience via employment/volunteer squad, I don't see how it hurts you. If you just put it down on an app that you're certified, it won't mean anything.

The only thing to keep in mind is that you will most definitely need to enjoy being an EMT. It's not like even remotely similar to hospital volunteering where you can just drag yourself there every week and 'suffer through it' if you hate it because you'll be consistently forced to do what your training requires of you. I'd definitely recommend you ask a local squad to let you do ridealongs beforehand to make sure it's something you like before investing any time whatsoever.

As for taking up someone else's spot in an EMT class, I can't possibly see how that is a concern. Many of your classmates will not pass or leave the profession long before you do (providing you plan to do this up until med school) and the classes hardly seem limited in size.

 

[BenUstudent]

I recieved my EMT-B this past september. I live in the Western Chicagoland suburbs, applied everywhere in my area for EMT-B (private) and E.R. PCT jobs, so far nothing. It seems that no one is hiring right now, everyone is staying where they are at. Also getting with a dept. is very hard, since they want you to have taken fire science classes (so work as a Fireman/EMT). But I am hoping that something will open up after the new year.

 

[LadiiKay]

I recieved my EMT-B this past september. I live in the Western Chicagoland suburbs, applied everywhere in my area for EMT-B (private) and E.R. PCT jobs, so far nothing. It seems that no one is hiring right now, everyone is staying where they are at. Also getting with a dept. is very hard, since they want you to have taken fire science classes (so work as a Fireman/EMT). But I am hoping that something will open up after the new year.

Join the volees first. Most private agencies like to see that you have some form of experience before they hire you. Some will hire right off the bat, but that's rare. If you come to them with 6 months on the volees (once a week or even 2x/month) they're more likely to hire you.

 

[gravitywave]

Paramedic? Absolutely not. By the time you get your 2 years of training you're already applying to med, and you've wasted a lot of time, other people's spots, and what not.

As for EMT, I don't agree that it's a waste of time unless you make it one. If can you use your EMT cert to get clinical experience via employment/volunteer squad, I don't see how it hurts you. If you just put it down on an app that you're certified, it won't mean anything.

The only thing to keep in mind is that you will most definitely need to enjoy being an EMT. It's not like even remotely similar to hospital volunteering where you can just drag yourself there every week and 'suffer through it' if you hate it because you'll be consistently forced to do what your training requires of you. I'd definitely recommend you ask a local squad to let you do ridealongs beforehand to make sure it's something you like before investing any time whatsoever.

As for taking up someone else's spot in an EMT class, I can't possibly see how that is a concern. Many of your classmates will not pass or leave the profession long before you do (providing you plan to do this up until med school) and the classes hardly seem limited in size.

best, most succinct post in the thread.

it's not about taking a spot, it's about the potential waste of your valuable time. Getting any cert and then not using it is a waste of time. getting a Paramedic cert and not using it full-time for at least a couple years is a waste of time.

the hiring environment is crap-o right now, yes. getting on a transport truck might be some people's best option for gaining clinical experience right now, though. EDs aren't hiring techs, fire depts don't want you unless you're a firefighter, and I'd say that even riding the dialysis bus will get you more and better experience than any volunteering you can do.

getting on with volunteer squads gets easier the more rural you are, too.

 

[GTstormin]

OP, as someone who took the EMT-B course and never got the license, I overall thought it was worth it. That training not only boosted my cGPA (in TX where apparently they took the community college credit into account) but also allowed me to get an ER Tech job in my home town doing exactly what the licensed Tech's could. That experience got me a clinical research job at the med school I'm going to in Aug, so the EMT was invaluable indirectly to my success (of course this was over a 2-3 year period). But directly, the course was worthless.

My advice to this:

I recieved my EMT-B this past september. I live in the Western Chicagoland suburbs, applied everywhere in my area for EMT-B (private) and E.R. PCT jobs, so far nothing. It seems that no one is hiring right now, everyone is staying where they are at. Also getting with a dept. is very hard, since they want you to have taken fire science classes (so work as a Fireman/EMT). But I am hoping that something will open up after the new year.

When I got my ER Tech job, I took a physical copy of my resume to 4 local hospital's HR departments and asked if they had any positions I'd be qualified for. I received an email the next day from the one I ended up worked at. Every hospital uses the online systems (which I was directed to by 2 of the hospitals when they refused my resume) but I think the direct approach is the only reason I got that position.

 

[racataca]

Thanks, everyone, for the wise words. I didn't realize my ECs were good (ARE they good?), and I agree that they need to be expanded upon.

I definitely think it could be useful to do the classes/get the license/get a job, but as a lot of you have pointed out, the industry is on a downturn. Plus, I want to really focus on getting great grades in my prereqs; since they will be done at a community college, I know I've got to keep them super competitive.

I think scribing and volunteering at clinics would be my best option. I'm going to look into volunteering this week, and I'm looking for any kind of scribe training in Chicago, but can't seem to find anything. So if anyone has any leads on that, it'd be terrific!

 

[TarHeelEMT]

Paramedic? Absolutely not. By the time you get your 2 years of training you're already applying to med, and you've wasted a lot of time, other people's spots, and what not.

As for EMT, I don't agree that it's a waste of time unless you make it one. If can you use your EMT cert to get clinical experience via employment/volunteer squad, I don't see how it hurts you. If you just put it down on an app that you're certified, it won't mean anything.

The only thing to keep in mind is that you will most definitely need to enjoy being an EMT. It's not like even remotely similar to hospital volunteering where you can just drag yourself there every week and 'suffer through it' if you hate it because you'll be consistently forced to do what your training requires of you. I'd definitely recommend you ask a local squad to let you do ridealongs beforehand to make sure it's something you like before investing any time whatsoever.

As for taking up someone else's spot in an EMT class, I can't possibly see how that is a concern. Many of your classmates will not pass or leave the profession long before you do (providing you plan to do this up until med school) and the classes hardly seem limited in size.

This is the correct answer, all around.

 

[kmktz]

I also live in the Chicagoland area and I have found that doctors in the west suburbs are open to letting individuals shadow. I begin shadowing a ortho surgeon in two weeks.

So if you have a car and are willing to commute to the burbs then that might an avenue you want to pursue. Obviously the hospitals that you mentioned are very highly ranked but the hospitals out in the suburbs are also very good. Adventist, Edwards, CDH, ect...

Also due to your time constraints, have you thought about CNA training? Often times hospitals will hire individuals with a CNA cert for ER Tech positions and the training is much shorter (8-12 weeks at most CC's). Call around and see if any hiring managers at prospective hospitals are open to this before committing to anything though.

Best of luck

 

[wlee43]

It's just not worth the trouble, study more instead

 

[welcometomedsch]

Paramedic hell know.

EMT no.

Many hospitals require the EMT-B if you want to mop up blood or push patients around for money.

 

[MCAT guy]

I have an EMT. It is worthless.

I guess it'd be valuable if you worked 2+ years 20+ hrs a week, but only then.

 

[grindtime1]

To those who are saying an EMT is useless, then what type of work do they look for? (something that's not impossible either)

Pretty much nothing?

 

[blackarrowmoose]

To those who are saying an EMT is useless, then what type of work do they look for? (something that's not impossible either)

Pretty much nothing?

i second this, many people on SDN have told me EMT training isn't that worthwhile, so what exactly can we "do" to get clinical experience thats also not impossible to get? (not including shadowing)

 

[vandyam]

I do not agree that an EMT is a waste of time if you use it right. I have my CNA (very similar) and I've worked at a hospital for over two years already - it will be 3 yrs once I apply to medical school - and it's been invaluable to me. Of course, I've used my CNA full time (I work 40-50 hrs per wk), so it's benefited me a ton in the way of clinical experience. If you plan on working 20+ hr/wk I'd say it is hugely worth while. I've seen things I couldn't even imagine before, and because I work in a teaching hospital I see medical students/interns here all the time and I feel as though I have a ton more experience than them. They can't even put in a foley or do venipuncture for goodness sakes. I saw one resident try 4 times to put on sterile gloves in a sterile field before attempting to start a chest tube, and every time it was a huge fail so the attending just told him to leave. This kind of crap happens all the time and I'm so glad I know how a hospital really works, the codes for things, the pace, the level of professionalism required, the meds to push, how to understand the charts/computers, etc. I feel like you really have to be in a hospital to understand all of this.

So if you have the time - hugely worth while. If not, try to get these benefits through *some* type of clinical exposure. Someone else suggested volunteering. This can be useful if you volunteer in the ER at night, for instance, when the traumas come in and you can see a lot. Plus, in general, they are more laid back at nights. However, pushing patients around the hospital probably won't be very beneficial.

 

[MCAT guy]

I do not agree that an EMT is a waste of time if you use it right. I have my CNA (very similar) and I've worked at a hospital for over two years already - it will be 3 yrs once I apply to medical school - and it's been invaluable to me. Of course, I've used my CNA full time (I work 40-50 hrs per wk), so it's benefited me a ton in the way of clinical experience. If you plan on working 20+ hr/wk I'd say it is hugely worth while.

Basically what I said, except it isn't hugely worthwhile. Define that impact. It will have little impact on a medical school application. It won't give you an advantage in your first two years of basic sciences. It will have minimum to no benefit during 3rd and 4th year.

Remember that most people are trying to gain acceptance into a medical school or become good physicians/gain good residencies. You will know more about a hospital but this knowledge will not translate into getting a better residency or anything first/second year, Step 1, clerkship grades.

I've seen things I couldn't even imagine before, and because I work in a teaching hospital I see medical students/interns here all the time and I feel as though I have a ton more experience than them. They can't even put in a foley or do venipuncture for goodness sakes. I saw one resident try 4 times to put on sterile gloves in a sterile field before attempting to start a chest tube, and every time it was a huge fail so the attending just told him to leave. This kind of crap happens all the time and I'm so glad I know how a hospital really works, the codes for things, the pace, the level of professionalism required, the meds to push, how to understand the charts/computers, etc. I feel like you really have to be in a hospital to understand all of this.

I think this has increased your interest in the field (obvious plus ) and has made you more comfortable with things. Good.

Things that will impact your application more? A great personal statement, great GPA, great MCAT, great essays that fit a schools philosophy, a great interview/personality. These things will have a larger impact and don't take 2 years at ~20 hrs a week. That's 2,000 hours. Chew on that... remember, efficiency is king.

On all my interviews, clinical experience has taken up less than 5% of the time. It is a checkmark (have it or not). It's like being pregnant, you either are or aren't. They arbitrarily decide what's adequate and go from there.

 

[BF2BC EMT]

Getting your EMT depends on location, where I work EMT's cant do anything, unless your first on scene (never happens) FF-P's who hate doing medical run the show. L&S from anywhere in the city limits you will reach a hospital in under 5 mins. These factors dont give me much to talk about compared to Billy Bob EMT in Farmville Arkansas who is on a volley squad with another EMT-B or I no medic back up and with 20+ min transports to a hospital, they will have some good stuff to go on.

Work is alright, n00bs cant find jobs here, some havent had work since they finshed everything 1+ years ago, license is almost expired, have to do CE hours.....

I know 2 peeps both got their EMT's one worked at a doctors office and me and the other one both worked at a free clinic, we used are "training" to help the poor and disadvantaged in a clinic setting, thats the good stuff

 

[Silverman780]

I currently am a basic, but am in class for my Intermediate for ECG and IV+ Drug skills. That being said It gives you experience in dealing with patients and can be a great way to meet some really cool ER Docs. In regarding your med school application I would say that It can't HURT your application, but will not make up for a crappy GPA or MCAT. I first got into it because a ER doc said that she did it and it was a great intro to the world of patient care. However since then it has turned into warped hobby of mine.

As the saying goes: I don't want people to wreak their cars, I just want to be there when they do.

 

[tkim]

This kind of crap happens all the time and I'm so glad I know how a hospital really works, the codes for things, the pace, the level of professionalism required, the meds to push, how to understand the charts/computers, etc. I feel like you really have to be in a hospital to understand all of this.

You know the logistics of the hospital, but that doesn't mean you know medicine.

Try not to confuse the two again.

 

[WuMedic]

I have no idea why people are telling you not to get the EMT.

Yes, the EMT cert in and of itself is worthless, but it allows you to work as an EMT which give you clinical exposure. You get to start honing patient encounter skills, learn critical decision-making, working with other members of a team, etc... skills that take time to learn and can't all be taught in 4 years of med school.

If you get the cert and sit on it, yes, it's useless, but if you get out there and do it, then not so much.

Most people who call it useless don't believe in looking for certain jobs b/c they feel those jobs are below them. Start in an ER or Private Service if you have to. There's something to be said about the hundreds if not thousands of sets of vitals and assessments I got to do on a private service before going into the fire service. Yeah, it's not glorified blood and guts, but it gets you experience.

Past that, volunteer for a dept that gets a lot of runs so you'll grow and have good stories of how you learned while in the field for your interviews. If you can get hired at a FD, that's great, but if not, the volunteer experience comes in handy and counts both as a clinical and comserv experience.

If you want to do it, go for it, just don't half-ass it. Don't be like the premed-donnas out there who think things are below them. Get into it and start at the bottom of the chain. Fire/EMS is paramilitary, there is a pecking order, but if you know your place and do what is expected of you, you'll have no problems fitting in and moving up and getting experience.

 

[Doc of the Walk]

I was going to get an EMT-B cert this summer as well. How much experience would you say is needed before I can get an actual job as an EMT. Also, if I have that cert can I become an ER tech?

 

[Sesom]

No, getting you EMT cert. is NOT a waste of time. Even if you don't get a job as an EMT you are still going to be able to use those skills in volunteer settings. For example, a good place to volunteer in my city is the free clinic. They don't even let you volunteer unless you have some sort of skill. Plus you are more able to get clinical experience through volunteering with certain skills. Everything is a waste of time if it doesn't lead to anything though. So just put it to good use and it won't be a waste, simple.

 

[Silverman780]

I was going to get an EMT-B cert this summer as well. How much experience would you say is needed before I can get an actual job as an EMT. Also, if I have that cert can I become an ER tech?

All depends on your location in the US. The mid-west and South are generally have more jobs available for BLS. If in the northwest you need about a year of volunteer/clinical time before they will put you on a rig but jobs are hard to come by.

ER techs vary from hospital to hospital and who you know generally they want you to be able to start a IV at least so you would need a EMT-E or EMT-I however I have met some EMT-B who perform CNA style jobs in ER and they are labeled as techs.

 

[Doc of the Walk]

All depends on your location in the US. The mid-west and South are generally have more jobs available for BLS. If in the northwest you need about a year of volunteer/clinical time before they will put you on a rig but jobs are hard to come by.

ER techs vary from hospital to hospital and who you know generally they want you to be able to start a IV at least so you would need a EMT-E or EMT-I however I have met some EMT-B who perform CNA style jobs in ER and they are labeled as techs.

Do you know about the Mid-Eastern Region? Specifically VA. Also, what if there is an teaching hospital nearby (MCV)? Would they be more inclined to hire EMTs as ER Techs?

 

[Sankaku]

I have worked as an EMT. I wrote about my clinical experiences on the ambulance in my apps and it has come up in my interviews. For me it was definitely worth it. It was fun, it payed the bills and it added to my application. I have also volunteered and shadowed quite a bit, which was great. But it's a whole different experience when you're not just passively watching what's going on.

 

[Silverman780]

Do you know about the Mid-Eastern Region? Specifically VA. Also, what if there is an teaching hospital nearby (MCV)? Would they be more inclined to hire EMTs as ER Techs?

VA would be EMT-E and you would have to contact the ER manager or the hospital HR dept to see their specific requirements. However teaching hospitals are the best for shadowing in my opinion.

 

[MCAT guy]

wow. Surprised people are telling others to get EMT. It will not help you get into medical school. I guess if you are interested in Emergency Medicine it could be fun. Just don't do it thinking it will help you get into medical school or be a better doctor.

EMT is 150 hrs of class + time studying. To have any meaningful experience is around 1,000-2,000 hours. Depending how hard your tests are in class, you have spent 2,200+ hours. You could do so many other things that are interesting/unique and will help you get into medical school. There are things that will take 20-50 hours that would stand out more and help you get in. Getting an EMT-B makes you a cookie cutter pre-med. I had my cert and didn't even mention it or list it on an application.

Notice a lot of people advising to get it do not have medical school acceptances or haven't been through medical school. Pre-meds think it is cool experience but it will not help your application. So many better ways to build a unique app. Let me guess, you guys are biology majors with EMT certs that also have a little habitat for humanity and ER volunteering. The cookie cutter applicant! Marketing hint: Don't be the same as everyone else.

 

[WuMedic]

wow. Surprised people are telling others to get EMT. It will not help you get into medical school. I guess if you are interested in Emergency Medicine it could be fun. Just don't do it thinking it will help you get into medical school or be a better doctor.

I'm not saying it WILL help you get into med school, but I think you are wrong in saying it WILL NOT help you get into medical school. I'm saying it CAN help you get into med school if used in the right way. Likewise, it definitely CAN help you be a better doctor as you learn to deal with patients and people who you just met and are very different from you. It gives you exposure to experiences you can't get in other facets of life.

EMT is 150 hrs of class + time studying. To have any meaningful experience is around 1,000-2,000 hours. Depending how hard your tests are in class, you have spent 2,200+ hours. You could do so many other things that are interesting/unique and will help you get into medical school. There are things that will take 20-50 hours that would stand out more and help you get in. Getting an EMT-B makes you a cookie cutter pre-med. I had my cert and didn't even mention it or list it on an application.

I seriously doubt there is something you can do for 20-50 hours that would look better than spending 2000 hours in EMS. Those hours show dedication, and you get a lot of experience from it. Think about it, even those of you that do research in labs, over the years you have put in about 1000-2000 hours to get that.

I agree that it may not be as unique to have an EMT cert, but it certainly is unique to get that cert and use it in a clinic in say, Venezuela. Getter in EMT-B can make you a cookie cutter-premed but what you do with it can make you stand out.

To MCATguy: what companies did you work for with your EMT-B? What departments were you on? How many hours did you do a week? How did you use the EMT-B?

I may be wrong, but I'll doubt he has thousands of hours of experience or did anything far more than get the cert. The cert is a piece of paper, getting it is worthless in and of itself, but doing something with that piece of paper, and you'll be pleasantly impressed.

Notice a lot of people advising to get it do not have medical school acceptances or haven't been through medical school. Pre-meds think it is cool experience but it will not help your application. So many better ways to build a unique app. Let me guess, you guys are biology majors with EMT certs that also have a little habitat for humanity and ER volunteering. The cookie cutter applicant! Marketing hint: Don't be the same as everyone else.

An aside, I have been accepted to medical school and the EMS experience, especially my time on a rural department has come up in all of my interviews to date.

Also, you do need some uniqueness to your application, but you also need some conformity. In this case, you need to show you have clinical experience, and this CAN BE a good way to get it. Also, by excelling in the clinical experiences department, you can set yourself apart.

I'll add this to the marketing hint: While you don't want your product to be the same as everyone else's, it still has to have the same basic functions as the other products. A vacuum cleaner that drives itself is unique, but it is worthless if it does not vacuum dust out of carpet.

 

[Doc of the Walk]

VA would be EMT-E and you would have to contact the ER manager or the hospital HR dept to see their specific requirements. However teaching hospitals are the best for shadowing in my opinion.

Is that different than an EMT-B? Or do I just have to do more hours or something? Yeah, I have shadowed a Radiologists and an Anesthesiologist there, but now I am looking to try to get some patient contact in as well. Would it help if the EMT-B class being taught was as the teaching hospital

 

[WuMedic]

I don't know about VA, but in each state there are different levels of EMTs and can vary widely. For the two states I am licensed in:

Ohio (as of my last recert):

CFR: Doesn't actually treat very much, but prevents things from getting worse until EMTs get there.
EMT-B: Treats most injuries (limited management of severe respiratory, acute abdomen, or cardiac), but cannot start IVs. Limited drugs available to give. Cannot use manual defibrillator. Can only intubate patients who are apneic and pulseless orally only.
EMT-I: All of EMT-B plus starting IVs/IOs and giving of non cardiac drugs. can manual defib. can intubate patients who are apenic but not pulseless.
EMT-P: All of EMT-I plus cardiac drugs and advanced procedures (trach, cric, needle decompression, etc). Intubate patients as indicated under any circumstances, nasally or orally.

Staffing:
Squad: 2 EMT-B's (or CFR and EMT-B if volunteer department)
Medic (old "Advanced"): 1 EMT I and 1 EMT-B
Medic: 1 EMT-P and any other EMT personnel (but not CFR unless it's a volunteer department)

Missouri (as of my last recert):

EMT-B: Basic interventions and treatment of most injuries. (limited management of severe respiratory, acute abdomen, or cardiac). Cannot start IVs, little if any drugs allowed, no intubation.

EMT-P: Almost identical to EMT-P from Ohio.

Staffing:

Squad: 2 EMT-B's
Medic: At least one EMT-P and any other EMT.

As you can see, there is a side variance from state to state of what one can do. Also the gap in MO's state protocols is much bigger than in Ohio's.

Some hospitals will want an EMT-I so they can start IVs. Others don't need EMTs starting IVs so they'll hire the Basics to do assessments and such. I know we have an EMT-B in the hospital where I do research who is a call taker, another one who is in triage, one who take radio reports, etc. None of them need to have IV experience. But the EMT-P's who do start IVs have to have that higher level of certification.

 

[wakedawg]

I am an EMT-I and it has helped my ECs greatly. Like some of the other posters, shadowing is really difficult in the hospitals in my area, too much red tape. And as far as shadowing in a practice, I only feel comfortable asking ones I'm familiar with, and that leaves only my family care doctor. For me its really hard to put in consistent shadowing hours when I need a part time job instead, so EMT was the best option. Unlike many other EMTs, I got a job right after my sophomore year in college and I'm still working for the same company in my fourth year. I think most people say EMT is worthless because most only go for the Basic, and there is really not much you can do with that, other than assist and drive. On top of that, many people like me get their EMTs very young, and most companies will not hire anyone under 21 due to insurance reasons. Also, ER companies (hospitals and counties) usually only take those with experience, so many new EMTs never get hired at those places, especially now with so many paramedics and EMTs available. Most med students with their EMTs don't consider other types of EMT work: dialysis trucks, transport trucks etc. I work for dialysis and I love it, I have regular patient contract and good pay.

But for the original poster, I agree with everyone else. Don't get your EMT too just better your ECs, its a demanding field, with lots of sarcastic and opinionated people who have been in the business too long and just don't care. You have so much already going for you and you activities show a commitment to community service, which schools really like to see. On top of that you have life experiences, they like to see uniqueness and diversity, and your application shows that. Better your time by just doing shadowing or clinical volunteering anyway you can instead of EMT classes. They'll understand if you dont have intense patient contact, very few people get ER or OR jobs, a receptionist job is just fine and shows your commitment just as much.

 

[MCAT guy]

I'm not saying it WILL help you get into med school, but I think you are wrong in saying it WILL NOT help you get into medical school. I'm saying it CAN help you get into med school if used in the right way. Likewise, it definitely CAN help you be a better doctor as you learn to deal with patients and people who you just met and are very different from you. It gives you exposure to experiences you can't get in other facets of life.

I seriously doubt there is something you can do for 20-50 hours that would look better than spending 2000 hours in EMS. Those hours show dedication, and you get a lot of experience from it. Think about it, even those of you that do research in labs, over the years you have put in about 1000-2000 hours to get that.

I agree that it may not be as unique to have an EMT cert, but it certainly is unique to get that cert and use it in a clinic in say, Venezuela. Getter in EMT-B can make you a cookie cutter-premed but what you do with it can make you stand out.

To MCATguy: what companies did you work for with your EMT-B? What departments were you on? How many hours did you do a week? How did you use the EMT-B?

I may be wrong, but I'll doubt he has thousands of hours of experience or did anything far more than get the cert. The cert is a piece of paper, getting it is worthless in and of itself, but doing something with that piece of paper, and you'll be pleasantly impressed.

An aside, I have been accepted to medical school and the EMS experience, especially my time on a rural department has come up in all of my interviews to date.

Also, you do need some uniqueness to your application, but you also need some conformity. In this case, you need to show you have clinical experience, and this CAN BE a good way to get it. Also, by excelling in the clinical experiences department, you can set yourself apart.

I'll add this to the marketing hint: While you don't want your product to be the same as everyone else's, it still has to have the same basic functions as the other products. A vacuum cleaner that drives itself is unique, but it is worthless if it does not vacuum dust out of carpet.

I could think a tons of things that take less time.

Start an after school tutoring program for a small school in your area. Start a health awareness program for a poor neighborhood in your area, you could contact 100+ physicians and see if one would be willing to help and give a speech or something. Be the president of a new organization for interest in _____. Start a fundraiser for a disease that you saw when working in a clinic.

Those are just random ideas I came up with in 30 seconds. I'm sure if one put in 60 minutes they could come up with great ideas. None of those would take anywhere near 2,200 hours. A fundraiser could take up 50 hour per year, it's interesting, it shows leadership and organizational skills, hardly anyone will do it (< 5% of applicant pool).

My point is simple, if you want to do it, then do it. If you want the experience, then great. But if you are actually doing it to build up your application, it is a huge mistake. It is the most inefficient and ineffective way to build your application.

People need to understand that adcoms see clinical experience as a checkmark. It is NOT a continuum. 200 hrs of volunteering in the ER plays exactly like 2,000+ hrs as an EMT. Remember that interviewers are trying to get your personality, not trying to see your level of medical excellence in an interview. What they don't say, "Wow. That guy knew all the hospital codes, he knew how to start a line and intubate a person. WOW! admit!" What they do say, "I liked him. He seems like a good person." If you understand the purpose of the interview, then you will understand that EMT experience had nothing to do with your acceptance.

I think you see all the medical students on here saying it is worthless because it is so LOW yield. You need around 2,000 hours and a few years before it is meaningful and even then, it will likely not help you in any way. I could add 10 meaningful ECs in 2,000 hours, each more impressive and unique than the single EC "job as EMT".

 

[wakedawg]

My point is simple, if you want to do it, then do it. If you want the experience, then great. But if you are actually doing it to build up your application, it is a huge mistake. It is the most inefficient and ineffective way to build your application.

It is a very inefficient thing to add to your app if your not going to use it. For me I began classes in september and didnt end until june, although there are some faster ones. It is also pretty pricey. Private programs aren't going to be cheap, and if its at a school (mine was at a technical college) it could cost a years worth of tuition. Don't do it just to get the license, that is a complete waste of time. Yeah, your required to have clinical training for it, but spend the time finding that on your own or volunteering. Get the license because you want a job in the field, only way it will pay out in the end.

 

[BooRadley85]

I got my emt before I ever began my undergrad because I always wanted to be a firefighter. After the course i realized i wanted to continue my education and eventually go to medical school. At a recent interview, my interviewer asked me what an EMT was. Although she was an MD/PhD, she was from Eastern Europe where they do not have EMTs. She asked me what all I could do as an EMT and was extremely underwhelmed at how little EMTs can acttually do. It might be a good application filler but if it is going to force you to quit your current job to try to get more experience, don't bother.

 

[equios]

MCATGuy, let me guess, you got the cert, put it down as a check mark and expected miracles? Either that, or you did a few ride-alongs on hollidays, days when there's usually almost zero activity?

As for the ideas you came up with, sure, sounds great on paper. How many of these have been actually put into practice? How many of those have succeeded and you can talk about in any amount of depth? I hate to say, but a lot of that post comes across as a cheap sales pitch for an "as seen on TV" product.

My work as an EMT-I has come up in all my interviews as a major point. I work in a mostly rural county, with several large (35,000 or less) towns. Transport times vary from 3 minutes to 40+ minutes. Population varies from destitute rural to average suburbanite.

My calls are skewed towards non-emergency, with some emergency.

For me, my EMT-I has helped me quite a bit. It has provided me with quite a bit of clinical and hands on experience. In addition it has allowed me to manage patient care - something that you as an ER-Tech will never do. I've run on everything from cardiac arrests, car wrecks, BS medicals, off-road accidents, shootings, stabbings, industrial accidents etc. It has provided me with great fodder for beloved questions like "Tell me of a time you went out of your way to help someone different from you?" or "How would you deal with a non-compliant patient?" "Tell me about serving the underserved?" Because trust me, after you have picked up that same combative drunk off the street for over 32 times, and each time strove to take the best care of his piss-and-s***-stained bottom - you can, you will be quite ready and able to hold a lecture on dealing with non-compliant underserved patients. When you can talk about holding C-spine of a patient trapped in a vehicle over a lake of gasoline with no fire-gear on, the question of "going out of your way to help someone" seems like a pale shadow of what you have had to do.

Now, as others have said, it IS a paramilitary organization. When you start, you are at the bottom of the totem pole. Get ready to do all the s**** that everyone above you doesn't want to deal with, and feel like a grunt in basic training. Its the nature of the beast. Enjoy it, learn how to function in that work-place, and if you can do that, you can seamlessly slip into any workplace you may encounter after wards.

For many pre-meds coming from a undergrad having spent nearly all their time around people of the same socio-economic and cultural norms the paramilitary discipline of EMS is quite a sudden and severe shock.

That said, I also will highlight that EMT experience is no substitute for good grades and MCAT scores. Just being an EMT is no guarantee of a successful admission cycle. But, an EMT certificate that is actively used is a great resource to weave together a memorable interview conversation.

 

[MCAT guy]

.

 

[tkim]

I'm attacking the idea that a pre-med should add it to his/her app to improve it. That is a goofy idea and why the medical students/attendings on this thread have said it is worthless.

Hmmm, I'm the only attending on this thread, and I didn't say anything of the sort.

I'm sure you had a lot of fun EMT calls but it just doesn't translate to success as an applicant or medical student (or doctor!).

It played a huge part of my getting into med school, and was the major topic of discussion in my EM residency interviews. I matched where I did because of my EMS involvement, and interest in ultrasound.

 

[MCAT guy]

.

 

[420]

To those who are saying an EMT is useless, then what type of work do they look for? (something that's not impossible either)

Pretty much nothing?

i second this, many people on SDN have told me EMT training isn't that worthwhile, so what exactly can we "do" to get clinical experience thats also not impossible to get? (not including shadowing)

i also want to ask this question. i need clinical experience, but it seems difficult to land a volunteer work where real clinical experience is gained without a certification of some kind. i can't see what the hospitals can possibly allow us to do other than mopping the floor or doing some manual labor that require no clinical knowledge.. please help.

 

[WuMedic]

Now, as others have said, it IS a paramilitary organization. When you start, you are at the bottom of the totem pole. Get ready to do all the s**** that everyone above you doesn't want to deal with, and feel like a grunt in basic training. Its the nature of the beast. Enjoy it, learn how to function in that work-place, and if you can do that, you can seamlessly slip into any workplace you may encounter after wards.

For many pre-meds coming from a undergrad having spent nearly all their time around people of the same socio-economic and cultural norms the paramilitary discipline of EMS is quite a sudden and severe shock.

That said, I also will highlight that EMT experience is no substitute for good grades and MCAT scores. Just being an EMT is no guarantee of a successful admission cycle. But, an EMT certificate that is actively used is a great resource to weave together a memorable interview conversation.

I agree with MCAT guy that it can be a huge waste, but when you have MANAGED patients and not just seen patients being managed, it is a different skill set. MCATGuy is right that it is not a continuum in the sense that 200 hours of observation may not be < 2000 hours of shadowing, but management generally > observation. To be able to discuss those interview topics past a certain level requires having actively been in an acting situation and not an observing situation.

The problem with a lot of premeds is that they are too used to things being fair and cushy. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this is probably why MCAT guy didn't like his EMS experiences because he was not able to adjust to those hostile environments (based on his actions here).

There's a premed who works at my firehouse as an EMT-B who we call Super-Squirrel or Rocky (those of you in EMS will appreciate the reference). First day there he wants to just play with all of the equipment and get involved with patient care. He thinks that as a fellow premed I can help him out when he thinks it's not fair that he has to do all the dishes after lunch and then sweep and mop the floors while the rest of us go read, watch TV, or take a nap. He wants me to go to bat for him since clearly I should understand this is an injustice. Too bad, you gotta take your turn doing the grunt work, and if you can't do it, no one will respect you. Those who have been here longer can pull rank. Learn from those who know more than you, and be humble. You can always learn more.

We won't go into what happened when he tried to question a medic's judgment a couple of months later (in front of the patient no less!). And this is why premeds have poor experiences in EMS.

Fortunately for me I was trained at the fire academy so learning how to act was instilled in me from the get go!

 

[MCAT guy]

/

 

[tkim]

Ok.

I guess I was wrong. Being an EMT is by far the most important thing any applicant can do. Don't walk, run to get that EMT-Basic cert!

Good luck noobs!

SDN is so goofy. Tkim you crack me up too. Why do you waste time on this site? I have to stop soon, but you're an attending.

It's not wasting time when you give relevant advice. SDN has helped me through premed, med school, residency, so I try to give back with my experience when I can.

It seems to counterbalance the conflicting advice of people who at times have less, or no, experience from which to base their advice - say, the premed recently admitted to med school who spouts all sorts of information about what's relevant or not about getting into med school and beyond ...

Saw your post in the EM section. Based on your recent posts - and your SDN name "MCAT guy", which is all sorts of toolish, I'd say go ahead and cross out EM as a specialty. Thanks.

 

[drpierre]

Really dependant on what you want to do, because it will clearly be a discussion during your interviews and if you are interested in that field it would make it easier to write your personal statement because you could you the experience but if you are doing it just to say you are doing it I am not sure it would help

 

[Doc of the Walk]

...so I guess the general consensus is that an EMT cert is useful depending on how you use it and what you make of it. Yes?