Would a U.S. program accept this medical student?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

CanuckDan

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
I read this story and everyone is saying she did not commit anything illegal, so I assume she'll get her medical degree. I'd like some opinions from the experts in residency programs regarding her prospects in either clinical or research now that her name is in the news.

Revealed: How female medical student tricked hundreds of people for 11 years with bogus blog about cancer boy whose mother died in car crash
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ctional-social-network-accounts-11-years.html

Emily Dirr, Medical Student Accused Of Tricking Hundreds With Story Of Cancer Kid
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/07/medical-student-accused-o_n_1578914.html

The Long, Fake Life of J.S. Dirr: A Decade-Long Internet Cancer Hoax Unravels
http://gawker.com/j's'-dirr-cancer-facebook-/

Members don't see this ad.
 
I wouldn't be too surprised if this did negatively impact her at medical school. The med school could document this as a lapse of "Professionalism" or something along those lines.
Even if the school doesn't document this in her record, a lot of programs do look up applicants on Google these days (I know the program director of one program I'm familiar with did so).
It's certainly possible that some programs wouldn't bother doing such a thing and she could slip through the cracks that way, but I definitely think she has seriously harmed her chances.

I can believe that she never intended to cause harm and it became something that spun out of control. Still, I think most programs would be very concerned about the mental health and trustworthiness of someone who would create such an elaborate deception and keep it going for so many years. I suppose it's possible that if she was willing to start mental health treatment then she could make a case that she has tried to learn from the mistake.
 
Last edited:
One of the articles mentions that her school is investigating this. I would be shocked if she comes out of it unscathed.

As mentioned in the Gawker article...this is "Munchausen by internet" - speaks to some serious underlying pathology
 
Members don't see this ad :)
No crime but its probably some sort of honor code violation at her school and they will probably mention it in her dean's letter when she applies for residency.
 
No crime but its probably some sort of honor code violation at her school and they will probably mention it in her dean's letter when she applies for residency.

Can't help but feel like most programs wouldn't want to touch her with that kind of bull**** in her background.
 
If she accepted gifts (looks like she accepted some toys and blankets at a minimum) then it seems that this may actually be criminal (fraud?). I am not a lawyer though... I would be SHOCKED if her school let her graduate. If they do, they might as well just stop pretending to evaluate their students on professionalism.
 
As long as she did not use the blog to commit criminal fraud or any other criminal act, I really can't imagine what the medical school could do to her.

She has a constitutinally guarenteed right to free speach. Other than violating Facebooks TOS, I can't imagine what school policy she broke. Having a hobby as a fiction writer shoudn't lead to a dismissal.
 
Last edited:
She has a constitutinally guarenteed right to free speach. Other than violating Facebooks TOS, I can't imagine what school policy she broke. Having a hobby as a fiction writer shoudn't lead to a dismissal.

Someone got kicked out of my school a couple of years ago for writing racist, anti-jewish rants on facebook. Just because our country protects free speech doesn't mean companies and institutions have any need to....
 
Someone got kicked out of my school a couple of years ago for writing racist, anti-jewish rants on facebook. Just because our country protects free speech doesn't mean companies and institutions have any need to....

Might be a bit of a different situation.

The school would still have a tough time kicking her out.

She invented fictional characters. She blogged about them. She answered fan mail in character. I don't see any damage done.
 
Last edited:
Can't help but feel like most programs wouldn't want to touch her with that kind of bull**** in her background.

I wonder if they would even know, unless this gets bigger, I doubt they would recognize the name unless someone says something in a letter
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Doesn't she live in ohio? She must to Ohio, Wright state, or Case. Anyone on this board know her?

Two questions:

Is she a really lonely person?

Is she unattractive?
 
Considering that the whole thing was based on her pretending to be a Canadian guy, I can't help wondering if "CanuckDan" is in fact Emily herself trying to figure out if she has any way of redeeming this situation.
In any case, I think that the key will be to get mental health treatment. That's the only way I can picture the medical school being willing to let her continue (perhaps after a leave of absence to work on these issues). There needs to be a good explanation for why this happened and why it won't happen again before I think anyone will want to let her continue.
 
If she was hot I could see letting this go under the rug with a slap on the wrist, but based on those pictures someone needs to throw the book at her. Literally. It might help.
 
I'm a single PD, so my opinion is an n=1.

I've read the story (heard about it earlier this week, already read it). I have to be honest, I don't know what to think. My gut instinct is that I would not interview someone like this.

I'm completely disappointed by this person's behavior. I understand that, depending on the details, this person may not have broken any laws. She made up an online persona, and people fell for it, One could argue that it's simply a piece of fiction -- no harm, no foul.

But I disagree. When you read / see a piece of fiction, you know it's fiction. This person did harm some people -- perhaps not financially, but at least emotionally. I still wonder whether convincing people to donate to charity by lying to them is illegal. It speaks very poorly of their character that they thought this was "fun", or that their own sense of self is so underdeveloped that they have to live their life vicariously through fake online personas.

On the other hand, residents probably "emotionally injure" other people on a regular basis. Breaking up badly with someone, or cheating on a spouse for example.

My bottom line is this: If I hire this person, and then the media gets hold of it, it could make me and my program look bad. And, if so, I probably won't be able to fire the person -- if they disclose it as part of their application then I hired them knowing about it (so can't then fire them), and if not the argument could be made that nothing illegal happened, so I can't fire them for it. But, I can refuse to interview someone for anything that is non-protected (like age, race, sexual orientation, etc). So I simply won't interview her should she apply.
 
I'm a single PD, so my opinion is an n=1.

I've read the story (heard about it earlier this week, already read it). I have to be honest, I don't know what to think. My gut instinct is that I would not interview someone like this.

I'm completely disappointed by this person's behavior. I understand that, depending on the details, this person may not have broken any laws. She made up an online persona, and people fell for it, One could argue that it's simply a piece of fiction -- no harm, no foul.

But I disagree. When you read / see a piece of fiction, you know it's fiction. This person did harm some people -- perhaps not financially, but at least emotionally. I still wonder whether convincing people to donate to charity by lying to them is illegal. It speaks very poorly of their character that they thought this was "fun", or that their own sense of self is so underdeveloped that they have to live their life vicariously through fake online personas.

On the other hand, residents probably "emotionally injure" other people on a regular basis. Breaking up badly with someone, or cheating on a spouse for example.

My bottom line is this: If I hire this person, and then the media gets hold of it, it could make me and my program look bad. And, if so, I probably won't be able to fire the person -- if they disclose it as part of their application then I hired them knowing about it (so can't then fire them), and if not the argument could be made that nothing illegal happened, so I can't fire them for it. But, I can refuse to interview someone for anything that is non-protected (like age, race, sexual orientation, etc). So I simply won't interview her should she apply.

She's only 22. She started the blog when she was 12. I think being forced to leave medical school for something like this is overly harsh. I hope she gets another chance. Besides maybe some of her classmates on here, no one really knows her in reality, so we really shouldn't be so quick to judge character just yet.

She's an M1. By the time she applies for residency, the media will obsess over something else.
 
Last edited:
It's a tough situation. I agree that she should not be "held responsible" for what she did at age 12. But she could have stopped at any time. She didn't even have to tell the truth -- she could simply stop posting. In her apology posted on one of those websites, she states that she started posting because she was bored, and then it morphed into a way to raise money for pedi cancer research. I have a huge problem with an M1 thinking it's OK to lie to people to get them to donate money to charity.

An interesting ethics disscussion of this type of topic is here: http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.u...oles-and-private-lives-how-separate-are-they/
 
another thing is she stole other people's photos. nobody would have believed her story without photos.
 
It's a tough situation. I agree that she should not be "held responsible" for what she did at age 12. But she could have stopped at any time. She didn't even have to tell the truth -- she could simply stop posting. In her apology posted on one of those websites, she states that she started posting because she was bored, and then it morphed into a way to raise money for pedi cancer research. I have a huge problem with an M1 thinking it's OK to lie to people to get them to donate money to charity.

An interesting ethics disscussion of this type of topic is here: http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.u...oles-and-private-lives-how-separate-are-they/

True, true. She may have been trying to do that (by killing off one of her "characters") but was outed in the process.

I know people were hurt. But maybe they were hurt becuase she empathized really well with the issues parents face when their kids have cancer, and it came across in her writing and correspondance with other people. I don't think she intended to hurt anyone or cause harm.

She invented a work of fiction and encouraged people to donate to a legitimate cancer charity. And mailed out bracelets to anyone who requested one (for free as far as I can tell). She didn't make any money.

Honestly, any one of us can be in a crappy situation in life pretty quickly, and for that reason, I still withold judgement. For lack of a better term, stuff happens.

The only thing she did that was pretty wrong is steal other people's photos and pass them off as her own. And violate Facebook's TOS with multiple profiles.
 
Last edited:
True, true. She may have been trying to do that (by killing off one of her "characters") but was outed in the process.

I know people were hurt. But maybe they were hurt becuase she empathized really well with the issues parents face when their kids have cancer, and it came across in her writing and correspondance with other people. I don't think she indended to hurt anyone or cause harm.

She invented a work of fiction and encouraged people to donate to a legitimate cancer charity. And mailed out bracelets to anyone who requested one (for free as far as I can tell). She didn't make any money.

Honestly, any one of us can be in a crappy situation in life pretty quickly, and for that reason, I still withold judgement.

The only thing she did that was pretty wrong is steal other people's photos and pass them off as her own. And violate Facebook's TOS with multiple profiles.

Did you miss the part where she carried out numerous sexually explicit emotional affairs online under the guise of this dude?

To try and pain this as "just" an attempt to encourage people to donate to charity and/or raise awareness is completely whitewashing the whole thing. Her behavior speaks to serious underlying pathology. I hope she gets help.
 
Did you miss the part where she carried out numerous sexually explicit emotional affairs online under the guise of this dude?

To try and pain this as "just" an attempt to encourage people to donate to charity and/or raise awareness is completely whitewashing the whole thing. Her behavior speaks to serious underlying pathology. I hope she gets help.

I did see that. Do we really have anything to diagnose her just yet? Who knows what the heck is true in this whole saga?
 
I did see that. Do we really have anything to diagnose her just yet? Who knows what the heck is true in this whole saga?

The extent and depths to which this woman emotionally manipulated people is stunning. 70+ different fake online personas. Manipulations and lies built over years. Acting as a false mentor to teenagers. Carrying on affairs online..

And now it seems as if she was failing her medical school coursework and struggling both personally and professionally.

I don't want to label her with a specific diagnosis, but I am confident that she needs psychiatric help.
 
The extent and depths to which this woman emotionally manipulated people is stunning. 70+ different fake online personas. Manipulations and lies built over years. Acting as a false mentor to teenagers. Carrying on affairs online..

And now it seems as if she was failing her medical school coursework and struggling both personally and professionally.

I don't want to label her with a specific diagnosis, but I am confident that she needs psychiatric help.

If she does need help, I hope she gets some. Who knows what is going on with her (if anything).

She is very young, and having her career ruined over something like this is a bit harsh.

No one is perfect.
 
True, true. She may have been trying to do that (by killing off one of her "characters") but was outed in the process.

I know people were hurt. But maybe they were hurt becuase she empathized really well with the issues parents face when their kids have cancer, and it came across in her writing and correspondance with other people. I don't think she intended to hurt anyone or cause harm.

She invented a work of fiction and encouraged people to donate to a legitimate cancer charity. And mailed out bracelets to anyone who requested one (for free as far as I can tell). She didn't make any money.

Honestly, any one of us can be in a crappy situation in life pretty quickly, and for that reason, I still withold judgement. For lack of a better term, stuff happens.

The only thing she did that was pretty wrong is steal other people's photos and pass them off as her own. And violate Facebook's TOS with multiple profiles.

Without descending into wanton McCarthyism... are you Emily Dirr?
 
Top