Would anyone here choose Hopkins over UCSF?

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postbacchus

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I am in the VERY fortunate situation to have been accepted to both schools and I'm a California resident. I'm 90% sure that I'll end up at UCSF, but I was curious if anyone here would actively chose Hopkins over UCSF and, more importantly, WHY. I'm especially curious to hear from any current Hopkins students who love the school because I haven't met anyone like that yet. Thanks!

PB
 
Both schools are obviously excellent in terms of academics, reputation, clinical training, quality of faculty, research opportunities, and residency matchlists.

Why choose Hopkins? Some people do because of the prestige, east coast connection, family nearby, quality of hospital, aspirations for future residency placement, and other factors. Hopefully people who attend Hopkins (or who face a similar decision) will describe their thoughts.

UCSF tends to be cheapter on average for California residents. There is a P/F grading system (versus Hopkins' grades), a collaborative and friendly atmosphere, and you get to live in a wonderful city--San Francisco. Over 60% of graduates remain in California for residency, others go to many of the elite residency programs throughout the rest of the country.

So I think it really comes down to personal factors like where you want to live, proximity to family and friends, and what learning and social environment fits you. You definitely can't go wrong with either school.

Congratulations and hope to see you this fall! 😀
 
I would choose Hopkins over UCSF because of three main factors.

1) Hopkins has the better reputation. Just ask people outside of the medical arena and most have never heard of UCSF. (Inside the medical arena Hopkins still has a slight edge.)

2) Hopkins grads have more career options. Just look at where the faculty went to school in any med school listing and you will see few UCSFers. Going to Hopkins keeps more options open.

3) Hopkins is a private school and you generally get better treatment as a student in a private school setting.

Any way you look at it, its not a bad choice to have to make, but I would give Hopkins a strong edge over SF.
 
I guess my only comment (I join in Vader's) is that UCSF is very student-centered and treats us like a private school does. I have often described the sense of community, administrative responsiveness, etc. as being very comparable to my undergrad (private, liberal arts) college. As for the faculty, etc., just make sure Hopkins faculty are devoted to teaching med students. UCSF has a specific "medical educators academy" that financially supports faculty interested in furthering undergraduate medical education (e.g., med students) and supports their efforts to teach us, revise teaching methods, etc. Faculty are always available in-person, via email or phone for you to talk with and ask questions. In all, it's a great atmosphere. And, as Vader said, it is not competitive among your classmates - we share notes and study together.
 
Originally posted by Procrastinator:
•I would choose Hopkins over UCSF because of three main factors.

1) Hopkins has the better reputation. Just ask people outside of the medical arena and most have never heard of UCSF. (Inside the medical arena Hopkins still has a slight edge.)

2) Hopkins grads have more career options. Just look at where the faculty went to school in any med school listing and you will see few UCSFers. Going to Hopkins keeps more options open.

3) Hopkins is a private school and you generally get better treatment as a student in a private school setting.

Any way you look at it, its not a bad choice to have to make, but I would give Hopkins a strong edge over SF.•••

Just wanted to comment on a couple things. I agree that people outside of medicine know about hopkins, but I have never been able to figure out what difference this makes (unless you just like to impress people on the street). I do think that hopkins med is filled with people who do think this is important. I have never met a more depressing group of prestige loving empty sad people than the hopkins med students I've met in my time as a jhu ugrad and working down at the hospital/med school.

Hopkins is a little backwards in its thinking... one would assume that a private school takes better care of its students than a public, like UCSF, but this is not the case. There is almost no administrative support and the only comment I've heard from md and md/phd students is that the admin's attitude is that if you're smart enough to get in here then figure things out on your own.

In conclusion, if you like to feel isolated, depressed, you are more interested in the name of your school than the subject of medicine, and you feel like all those people at P/F schools are babies who need to be coddled since they can't actually learn anything, then I think hopkins is the best school for you.

Personally, I'd take SF, but just by a little bit 😉
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Yikes! I have to take issue with coop on this one.

As a 2nd year med student at Hopkins, my opinion differs substantially from what coop just posted.

As far as being a "depressing" bunch of "prestige loving empty sad" people, nothing could be further from the truth. I could argue about this until I'm blue in the face, but ultimately this is something that you'll have to decide for yourself, postbacchus. I highly recommend the revisit weekend in April -- come meet your potential classmates. See what you think. If they're depressing, empty, and sad, then go to UCSF. I'd bet the price of your plane ticket that this won't be the case.

Contrary to coop's opinion, Hopkins bends over backwards for its medical students. I feel sorry for the grad students whose schedules are often completely thrown off by the med school routine. The institution rolls out the red carpet for med students. Expect to be treated like a colleague - I dare say that Hopkins treats its students better than most, if not all other schools. The administration acts on student input to change everything from curriculum to food service options. You'll work hard no matter where you go, but at Hopkins, you will be treated well. Don't believe anyone who says otherwise.

In my opinion, there's no better place to learn the art of medicine than Johns Hopkins. Period. It is an honor and a privilege to be here. Come to the revisit weekend and see for yourself -- choosing between UCSF and Hopkins is a glorious dilemma, and I hope you'll give Hopkins a chance. I don't think you'll regret it. I would be happy to answer any questions you have. Please feel free to e-mail me at [email protected].

Don't believe the hype. See Hopkins for yourself and judge.

Good luck,

doepug
MS II, Johns Hopkins
 
please hopkins versus UCSF....hopkins is the #1 in the country, and Hopkins is known worldwide...

UCSF is a great school, but it pales in comparison the prestiege that hopkins has all over the world...you can go to china, europe, and everybody has heard of hopkins.... 😀

and you get the best residency positions in the ENTIRE COUNTRY....I would go to hopkins over UCSF.. :clap:
 
I'm a huge fan of UCSF (PB, you know this already!) but if I had the chance to go to Hopkins, I wouldn't pass it up. Unfortunately, I haven't heard a thing from them, and seeing that it's pretty late in the season, I don't expect to.

However, UCSF is a great school and it's in state. Although I would have to say that living in SF is quite expensive and MAY be comparable to going to hopkins and living in Baltimore, especially if you get lots of grants/scholarships to Hopkins. I would think about the finances. But either way...they are both SUPER DUPER KICK A$$ schools. I would sell my soul to satan for an acceptane to either, ok maybe not that extreme, but pretty damn close!

CW
 
coop not so gracefully bows out of an argument he has gone thru too many times <insert "bowing out" smiley face here as soon as they invent one>

GO JAYS LAX!
 
Originally posted by WatchaMaCallit:
•please hopkins versus UCSF....hopkins is the #1 in the country, and Hopkins is known worldwide...

UCSF is a great school, but it pales in comparison the prestiege that hopkins has all over the world...you can go to china, europe, and everybody has heard of hopkins.... 😀

and you get the best residency positions in the ENTIRE COUNTRY....I would go to hopkins over UCSF.. :clap: •••

I tend to normally brush off incendiary comments such as this, but I had to take the bait on this one. The reason Hopkins is known worldwide by the layperson is because of the hospital, not the medical school. The reputation has to do with having outstanding clinical departments and excellent subspecialist physicians who see extremely complicated and rare cases. In addition, there are a huge number of clinical trials conducted there.

The same can be said about UCSF, however. The UCSF hospitals have an excellent reputation and many outstanding clinical departments. Moffitt-Long hospital is a tertiary care facility that receives referrals from all over the Western region of the nation and some international.

The reputation of a hospital does not necessarily correlate with the quality of medical education. There are many other factors that go into one's education. Hopkins is obviously an amazing place to learn medicine, but may not provide the best environment for everyone. There are many people who choose UCSF over Hopkins for the various reasons that I mentioned in the earlier post.

I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone in the medical community that will be underimpressed by a UCSF education. Still, if what matters to you most is having maxed-out prestige and being able to tell everyone that you went to Hopkins, then by all means go ahead. 🙄
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i would pick hopkins over ucsf and most likely will because of what vader noted--hopkins hospital. The most important years of medical school are the 3 and 4 years. Would you rather be at UCSF hospitals or at Hopkins hospital? Of course, UCSF is an amazing place no doubt. But, there is only one hopkins hospital. Also, a huge percentage of hopkins students match at hopkins hospital. Furthermore, there are countless dept. heads with hopkins degrees and believe it or not, they prefer their own. But obviously, you cannot go wrong with either school. If one would prefer to live in SF or stay in cali for residency, then there is no reason to leave UCSF. From my interview there, I think UCSF is a great place to go to med school for a bargain price, but I cannot say that it's better than a Penn/Duke/Columbia/Hopkins. But i'm just a premed so what do i know? My research PI who graduated from hopkins said that hopkins is the best. but he's biased. he even rates it above harvard where he did his residency. I think he told me that at hopkins, there's a feeling of history and an amazing environment. On the other hand, harvard is split up between MGH, Brig, etc and there is alot of competition among scientists. just my 2 cents!
 
i find it incredibly strange that people would be so for hopkins and so against UCSF! both are tremendous schools! Both have cool students and are in great clinical settings. Both are relativley cheap to attend. Hopkins is older and that is where the "prestige" comes in. we can't help that CA is alot younger!
I don't think that you could go wrong with either one...there are enough residencies out there for everyone who works hard and has the passion!!! people from mostly any medical school can match in the speciality they want and at a good residency. now it just depends on comfort level, curriculum (Hopkins being graded is kind of offputting), etc.
LOOK, it is not which school you go to BUT what you do when you get to that school! I firmly believe in this. for example, it might be great that hopkins has clinical trials but if you don't try clinical research at hopkins, does it matter? i went to a state school in california (UCD). On my interviews, i have been in interview groups with many ivy people but I held my own because of what i accomplished at my school. so it didn't matter that they came from ivy league schools, i did alot at the school that i went to and that showed because i was invited to the same interviews as they were.
hopkins is coool but i don't think that it is the school for me. i am interviewing at UCSF later on next month but am a little familiar with it and it looks good also. both hopkins and UCSF are good schools. so postbacchus, go where you will be happy. congrats on two great acceptances!
 
i find it incredibly strange that people would be so for hopkins and so against UCSF! both are tremendous schools! Both have cool students and are in great clinical settings. Both are relativley cheap to attend. Hopkins is older and that is where the "prestige" comes in. we can't help that CA is alot younger!
I don't think that you could go wrong with either one...there are enough residencies out there for everyone who works hard and has the passion!!! people from mostly any medical school can match in the speciality they want and at a good residency. now it just depends on comfort level, curriculum (Hopkins being graded is kind of offputting), etc.
LOOK, it is not which school you go to BUT what you do when you get to that school! I firmly believe in this. for example, it might be great that hopkins has clinical trials but if you don't try clinical research at hopkins, does it matter? i went to a state school in california (UCD). On my interviews, i have been in interview groups with many ivy people but I held my own because of what i accomplished at my school. so it didn't matter that they came from ivy league schools, i did alot at the school that i went to and that showed because i was invited to the same interviews as they were.
hopkins is coool but i don't think that it is the school for me. i am interviewing at UCSF later on next month but am a little familiar with it and it looks good also. both hopkins and UCSF are good schools. so postbacchus, go where you will be happy. congrats on two great acceptances!
 
rajneel I find it incredible that you have to post your reply twice for emphasis 😀
 
no, i got an error the first time and didn't know that it posted. duh!
 
Originally posted by Vader:
•

I tend to normally brush off incendiary comments such as this, but I had to take the bait on this one. The reason Hopkins is known worldwide by the layperson is because of the hospital, not the medical school. The reputation has to do with having outstanding clinical departments and excellent subspecialist physicians who see extremely complicated and rare cases. In addition, there are a huge number of clinical trials conducted there.

The same can be said about UCSF, however. The UCSF hospitals have an excellent reputation and many outstanding clinical departments. Moffitt-Long hospital is a tertiary care facility that receives referrals from all over the Western region of the nation and some international.

The reputation of a hospital does not necessarily correlate with the quality of medical education. There are many other factors that go into one's education. Hopkins is obviously an amazing place to learn medicine, but may not provide the best environment for everyone. There are many people who choose UCSF over Hopkins for the various reasons that I mentioned in the earlier post.

I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone in the medical community that will be underimpressed by a UCSF education. Still, if what matters to you most is having maxed-out prestige and being able to tell everyone that you went to Hopkins, then by all means go ahead. 🙄 •••


oh and don't I like to make incendiary remarks 😉 that is one of the kewl things about being watcha
:clap:

post something silly and have pple bicker on silly details here and there :clap: :clap: :clap:

hehe,...I'm so evil.....coop can vouch for me there 😉
<img src="graemlins/laughy.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughy]" />
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I prefer UCSF to Hopkins. Yes Hopkins has that precious brand name which is definitely good stuff, but UCSF is more "new school" and more "cool". Biomedical research is a tad quicker at UCSF than Hopkins. I think it's more than the San Francisco whether that draws close to half of Harvard's class to UCSF for residency. But then what do I know? I'm just pre-med.
 
Hey Watcha,
Silly posts belong on TPR, my friend. 😛

Again, those individuals suggesting that the quality of the clinical education or experience (i.e. 3rd & 4th year) will be any different between UCSF and Hopkins simply need a reality check. At either place, you will come out having seen many rare, complicated, and challenging patients. UCSF has some of the best hospitals and clinical departments in the nation and sees just as complicated and unusual cases as Hopkins. For instance, SFGH is the number one place in the nation for AIDS care and research. UCSF has one of the best neurology and neurosurgery departments in the world. To suggest that there will be any difference for you in your undergraduate medical education in terms of patient exposure or quality of physicians is simply demonstrates ignorance. Many of your sentiments reflect the traditional east coast bias. That's completely fine. All I'm saying is that in the long run, reputation of your medical school has very little to do with anything. The bottom line is exactly what rajneel1 pointed out. Pretty much no matter where you go, if you work hard to achieve your goals, they will be realized.

Now I had better get back to renal physiology, or else I won't be able to wake up tomorrow for class! 😀
 
Oh, man - thanks to everybody for posting. The posts here are similar to the competing voices in my head. (Okay - not those type of voices.) I appreciate all of the different perspectives and will post when I make a decision. As of right now, I'm waiting for financial aid information (and if Hopkins gives me a good financial aid package, the decision will be even more difficult).

Some people were curious about my stats. Here they are:

Overall GPA 3.84
Science GPA 3.99 (most classes taken post-bacc at a City College)
MCAT: 33 S (10B, 11P, 12B)
English major (strong humanities background)
Research: Very little. 1 publication on abstract as 4th author.
Extra curriculars:
* 3+ years volunteer phlebotomist at a free clinic
* Manager of a 911 ambulance program for 3+ years and an EMT since 1995.
* Sailing instructor for 7+ years

I also self-declared as a disadvantaged student because I put myself through undergrad without my parents' financial support. I am a white male and not a traditional minority student.

I hope the info is helpful and keep the info coming about Hopkins and/or UCSF!

Thanks again!

PB
 
One thing that needs to be considered very strongly is whether postbacchus wants to practice primary care medicine or to be a specialist. Yes, Hopkins' name is amazing in medical research, etc., but so is UCSF's in terms of primary care medicine and preventive medicine. In fact, when my boss and I were discussing where I should apply to school, he mentioned both Hopkins and UCSF. I asked him, "What kind of doctor comes of of Hopkins?" He said, "Hard core scientist." We both agreed at that point that it would be a waste of $$ on my part to apply there. Yes, the name is good, but it does not fit with what I want to do. (Meanwhile, my boss has TONS of UCSF research on his shelves--all on primary care/preventive medicine/community medicine. UCSF has an AMAZING reputation among primary care academic physicians.)

So, postbacchus, you need to ask youself--what do you want to do when you grow up? If it's science-based clinical or medical research, go with Hopkins. If you are more into health care policy and community medicine, go with UCSF.

An great, established name is a wonderful thing for a school to have, but it is meaningless if the school does not fulfill your interests and needs.

Good luck with your choice. It's a tough one!

mma
 
First of all, both are great schools. Are you worried about debt? If this is not a problem, then for name go to Hopkins, even though you may not enjoy their cut-throat environment. If money is a problem or you want to stay in california for residency go to UCSF. Even the Hopkins name will not outshine UCSF on the west coast. Especially if you want to stay at UCSF for residency. You will have an inside track all else being equal.
 
Reading this thread has been SO FRUSTRATING!

Sheesh! Okay...there is really NO difference in the residency placements that you're going to get from either school. My father is the director of a surgical residency program in surgery in Southern Cal., (went to WUSTL). He said that the difference (either way) between the two schools is completely marginal.

As such, it comes down to non-academic factors:

1. Area: what a joke--SF is in one of the greatest cities in the country while Hopkins is in one of the worst parts of a very depressing city (yes, i've had the 'pleasure' of being in MD and to hopkins-both medical school and undergrad).

2. Price--again, no comparison--SF is SO cheap to CA residents and even considerably cheaper for non-residents that manage to get into the school.

3. Competitiveness- Although doepug would say that hopkins is non-competitive--I have a good friend who transferred from hopkins med who said that it is SUBSTANTIALLY more competitive than the other medical schools he considered

4. Grades- After the 1st year, Hopkins has letter grades--who needs that?!?!

---------------------------------------------

The most frustrating thing I read is the following:

Hopkins has the better reputation. Just ask people outside of the medical arena and most have never heard of UCSF••

Okay...so WHO CARES if you're fifth cousin from Peoria has never heard of SF--that is the absolute *WORST* argument i've heard for deciding where to attend medical school (sorry procrastinator 😉 , but seriously, pleasing other people should be really low on your list of factors determining where you should matriculate).

The decisive factor is where you think you'll be happiest and from everything that I know, this is absolutely NO contest--SF is an essentially equal school academically where everyone is really much much happier (on average) than people at Hopkins.

Postbacchus--if you knew the sheer # of amazing applicants that I know who didn't even apply to Hopkins but applied to every other top school, the decision would be really easy for you. Go to SF...

Oh, lastly, contratulations on being accepted to such great schools. Good luck with your choice!

😀
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matchlists at jhu is on a different level. i've been looking at the last couple of years. I haven't seen harvard, but i bet it's on the same level or maybe a tad higher than jhu. But, UCSF, Stanford, Duke, Columbia, and Penn are all matching pretty much equally. If you're seriously thinking that UCSF matches the same as Hopkins then i would say that you should request the matchlists at JHU from the last two years like i did. There isn't a comparison.

But of course, it depends on what you want. No one will ever doubt your choice of UCSF. It's probably more popular because of the location and price. The faculty at hopkins is better. I dont care what Vader says. Hopkins Hospital is the best in the world. It aint pretty though!
 
hopkins and ucsf indebtedness is very comparable. only like $10,000 off with hopkins being a little more. but then moving costs and airfare for holidays should be included. so i don't cost should matter that much.
 
for me, the big decision is whether i value the extra added value of the hopkins degree over the quality of life and location. I dont think that competition is that bad at hopkins because around 85% get B's, so you can see that for the major majority of the students, a B is pass. Sure, there are those 10% A's if you want to be a gunner ,but that's only 1/10. But dont be fooled into thinking that all those P/F people have the gunners making up 1/10 anyways. I know at Penn Med there are always some competive overacheivers. And, they will find a way to express their competiveness in any grading system. So what it really comes down to is 1)do you want to end up on the east/west coast 2) do you care about the extra prestige which is only a small amount (as Vader said).

Some anecdote by GG and his father doesn't really mean any more than what my PI told me. Take it all wiht a grain of salt. But, look at the matchlists. That's how you can compare. And of course, i'm taking into account the fact that most UCSF students will pass up an East program to stay in Cali. And i still dont think they compare. peace
 
I think we can all agree that there are quite a few factors that people juggle with when making these types of decisions. Different things are important to different people.

It's one thing to voice your personal preferences. It's quite another to say things like (to paraphrase) "Hopkins' faculty is better." While I respect your opinion, I would like to see some real data, not just anecdotes, to back up that assertion.

For some reason, people often harbor the following misperception:
Originally posted by mma:
•
If it's science-based clinical or medical research, go with Hopkins. If you are more into health care policy and community medicine, go with UCSF.
•••

I'd like to clarify things a bit. If you are familiar with research (basic or clinical), you'll know that UCSF is a powerhouse in terms of publications and the school receives a ton of NIH funding. In fact, a large part of my choice to attend (MSTP) was the strength of the neuro research and faculty here. Many of the programs I looked at were heavily lopsided toward either clinical medicine or basic biomedical research. UCSF was unique in having a superb combination of both. Therefore, I would NOT think what was said above would be a good reason to attend one over the other. Sorry mma... 😉

Again, there are many factors that go into making a decision, but it is generally a good idea to avoid misperceptions. The best way to do this is to talk with a variety of faculty and students, search web sites or literature, and ask people to back up strong claims with evidence (yes, I'm looking at you, Mr. Bean 😉 ).
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I would agree with Nader.

From what I have heard among the faculty at my med school, UCSF is deemed very very highly by everyone. And UCSF does have huge basic science AND clinical science research. The thing about "everything related to community health/prevention comes from UCSF while hard-core basic science comes from JHU" could not be further away from the truth.

As for the matchlists, i really don't know what to say. California itself is a very primary-care based state with heavy HMO penetration. However, JHU does tend to accept "scientists." The only people who have been accepted there (to my knowledge) have decent MCAT (around 33) but most importantly, perfect GPA (4.0) and awesome undergrad research (1st authorship somewhere). Therefore, I would not be surprised if JHU people continue to do research in med school and want to go into competitive sub-specialties down the road.

With UCSF's name, I honestly cannot believe that you will overlooked by residency directors at all!

Lastly, I would not trust Mr. Bean's assessment of matchlist either. Do you know that Duke sent 11/11 kids into ophthalmology and 5/5 into derm (and other sub-specialties) last year out of a class of 100? I don't see how you could judge JHU's matchlist over Duke/Columbia and others.
 
UCSF all the way. No question. Wish i had to make that decision 🙂 --Trek
 
lots of replies here:

in terms of ranking faculty: i obviously cannot come up with any statistic or data to support my claim that JHU is better than UCSF in this regard. And i hesitate to link you to the USNews ranking of hospitals since that is a very hated source. However, you already mentioned that Hopkins Hospital is the best in your earlier post. There's no sense in arguing over this point. I have always noted that UCSF hospital is a wonderful place and right on par with HH even though I think it's a slight bit lower.

Residency: I have collected only Duke's 1998 placement because that's all i have access too. Their ophto matches are as follows: Duke, UCSD, Miami (2, Harvard.
Hopkins ophto matches are as follows: Hopkins (2), Wills Eye, UCSF

For Derm, Duke has : Boston U (2),Duke
JHU: NYU, Columbia

But let's look at what's probably a better indication--the IM matches:

JHU beats duke hands down in IM matches. I would say nearly 75 % of IM matches were at JHU or a Harvard Hospital. If you look at Duke's IM matches, it's a totally different sotry.

But anyways, nobody is saying that Hopkins is the all mighty only place to go to school. But if you believe that their matches arent more impressive than every school but harvard on average, you are fooling yourself. I dont know why i'm wasting my time instead of doing my lab report. 🙂 . This is all in good fun guys. I thought that i was quite good at giving UCSF it's strengths. I thought it was a great school and I would be very happy there. But, it's not perfect and I can tell you from my tourguide there on interview day, the curriculum isn't as laidback and chill as you think. She was the most stressed out person i have ever met at any of my interviews. Pick which school you think you fit the best at. It's not gonna be JHU for eeveryone and maybe not even for half the people who visit. True, many dont even apply. But, Hopkins is a truly special place.
 
the curriculum isn't as laidback and chill as you think. She was the most stressed out person i have ever met at any of my interviews. ••

I don't know who gave you the tour, but I can assure you that most people in my class like the new curriculum. This from talking with people and near-unanimous sentiment during our feedback sessions with the faculty and administrators during each block. That's not to say there haven't been any bugs--of course there are going to be in the first year of any new thing. But no major ones so far (mostly room scheduling issues, occasional lecture/small group order). The administration has been extremely receptive to our feedback and has actually made changes already based on what we said. It's cool going to a school where students feel empowered in their own education.

As I've said before on other threads, the Prologue was pretty stressful because of the condensed anatomy plus histo and other subjects squeezed into 6 weeks. They are definitely going to modify that for next year. Also, the scheduling should be less of a problem because both 1st and 2nd year students will be on the new curriculum. This year, some professors are having to teach their material twice: once to the 2nd years on the old curriculum and again to us since our new curriculum is integrated and includes path, pharm, etc. Since the Prologue, however, I think it has gotten a lot less stressful and if you ask people in my class, they'll tell you they love the curriculum. I don't really have to study all that much and we only have 2 hrs/day of lecture and 2 hrs of small group or lab, leaving tons of free afternoon time to do anything one wants. The P/F system does wonders for taking the pressure off and fostering comraderie among classmates.

Well, it sounds like the above debate is cutting into at least a couple people's work (including my own)... although I don't really mind being kept away at least briefly from the exciting topic of "clinical evaluation of body fluid osmolality" 😀
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You cannot compare matchlists that easily considering they CHANGE every single year. Case in point again, Duke had 9 people going into radiology in 2000 while as I mentioned in 2001 11 people going into ophthalmology. And through the grapevine, I heard from Duke MSIV that this year radiology is HOT again with 9+ people interested in it. So you cannot even compare Duke's matchlist from one year to the next because people's interest change! And hanging onto one single matchlist from one single year is a very dubious method. And what are you comparing? Duke 1998 to Hopkins 2000? Do you know that radiology was filled with FMG only 3 years ago while it is now one of the most competitive residency out there? Do you know that the competitiveness of anesthesiology is changing while general surgery is going down fast?

And it seems that you are hanging on to IM matchs. Well, do you also know that the most represented schools at Duke is Duke, Stanford and UVA? do you think those North Carolina, Virginia or California kids care about going to DC or Boston for residency afterwards? Nope. That's why your method is flawed from the beginning.

On the other hand, I do think that there is probably some very stressed out kids at UCSF. I think that inherently, top 10 schools attract similar students (high GPA and MCAT). The only difference is their location (heck, they all good research).
 
postbac- My advice is go where it feels right. They are both EXCELLENT schools and as long as you make the best of your education you can't go wrong. Go to both accepted students weekends (I think it is probably worth the extra investment for a plane ticket) and see where you feel most comfortable. You can compare stats, residency matches, students...everything until you are blue in the face, but at some point just go with your gut.
Unless there is a large difference in financial aid packages at different schools I will be at Hopkins next year....maybe I will see you on accepted students weekend.
I also just wanted to caution everyone from making large sweeping generalizations about the students at school x vs. school y. At every school there are going to be every type of person-from cuttroats to slackers. Earlier there was a post that said that Hopkins wants only "hard-core scientists"...with perfect GPAs...ect. Well, I definitely did not have a perfect GPA, actually not anywhere near there average. I had a very competative MCAT, good research experience, great extracurriculars, a little maturity, amazing recommendations. In my essay and my interview I made it clear that I did not want to do "hard-core bence science". I want to get my MPH (where Hopkins is known as one of the best in the world) and then work in primary care/preventive medicine and public health. They could not have been more supportive and not offer a better curriculum - An awesome MPH program, an excellent general medical education and also some of the best specialists in the world.
Good luck everyone.
 
The phrase "best in the world" is relative. It's only an opinion but the reason any school is considered "best in the world" is for the simple reason of $$$ and lots of it. If the school has $$$, then it's considered "best in the world." And then you might ask, how did it become "best in the world?" I guess due in part to the people who bring in the money. The phrase "best in the world" means money and politics. I apologize for being cynical...
 
Hi, I'm a 1st year at Hopkins and I was in the same position last year choosing between Hopkins and UCSF. If I could do it over again, I'd definitely choose UCSF instead! I feel it's way too competitive and stressful here. They say only 10% get an A here so it's basically like P/F, but that's not true at all--since there are A's out there, a LOT more than 10% of the class guns for them, and in many classes it's a lot more than 10% getting As (like in anatomy 25% get A's) which means even more competitiveness! It's Friday and I asked people in anatomy lab today what they were doing tonight and they all said "oh, probably study".

Plus Baltimore sucks!! My classmates have seen people get shot (this is on campus too!), several of my classmates have gotten their cars broken into, and on Wednesday, two of my classmates
were mugged and one got her jaw broken. Go to UCSF! You might not have the name-brand
of Hopkins, but quality of life, safety, and overall sanity are so much more important!!!
 
wow... moby's post seemed to put the nail in the coffin of this post. Thanks again to everyone who posted. The information has been very helpful to me. I'll resurrect this post again when I've made a final decision (post financial aid and 2nd look weekends).

PB
 
how does this one post nail the discussion? It's not that surprising that on a given weekend some people are going to stay in and study. I'm an undergrad and last night i had way too much work to go out. That doesn't mean I dont go out on all other Fridays. I really dont understand that this one post has that big of an effect on you. Medical school is rigorous and i'm sure that some people at UCSF didn't go out last night either. jesus christ.
 
well postbacc, first off, congrats. i guess now's the time when all the hard work and long hours studyin orgo pays off.

i personally feel that when you get as high up as hopkins and sf, it really doesn't make a world of difference if you go to a super duper awesome school or freeking awesome school. they're both awesome. but if that difference matters to you, then by all means, go by that.

but i can definitely say something about the distance away from home. i'm from LA, as u are, but i'm an undergrad all the way on the eastcoast. let me first say that flying home really sucks, esp after 9/11. and winters on the eastcoast are pretty rough on us spoiled so. cal people. however, livin on the eastside gives you exposure to a different way of life, even though you're still w/in the US. i believe that an eastcoast experience has definitely been enriching and painful at times. but, i believe there is a comfort of mind you have going to sf b/c of the fact that u can either hop on a 1 hr flight to get home or a 6 hr drive, dependin on how fast u wanna go down I-5. also, frisco is just far away enough so that ur parents can't make a surprise visit w/o givin u prior word. i believe that comfort of mind can really help you out when the med school experience becomes overwhelming or unbearable.

these are just some of the aspects of going out east that i have experienced. after weighin them out, i'd trade my kingdom for med school admission to ucla, sd, or sf. if i had the situation of choosin btw la and hopkins or say harvard, i'd take la in a heartbeat. but that's just me. i have many ties in la and missing out on weddings, births and birthdays really bites. but spendin a couple of yrs out east shows you that there is more out there than LA, the greatest place to live. plus only payin 10G's for tuition... it doesn't doesn't get any better than that. that's probably the best education for the dollar. and i doubt very highly that the cost of livin in frisco is goin to balance out the 30G's u'lll b payin at jhm. plus u'r residency placement is contingent upon how well you do in med school and not how good of a school you went to. and if u wanna live ur life out west, u may really consider goin to sf. but if u wanna change it up, hopkins gives a great opportunity to do that.

well, i hope this has helped you in ur decision making process. best of luck and congratulations. :clap:
 
It's not everyday you get to flame a Hopkins med student...

A Hopkins med student posted that Hopkins was #1.

..Forgive me..but I was under the impression that Harvard held the number 1 spot on BOTH the US News rankings and the Gourman Report.

Even IF Hopkins was #1..which it ISN'T..I suspect that it wouldn't hold that spot for long after killing off that perfectly healthy patient this year.

I suspect that they'll probably drop a few spots. Who knows...UCSF may even end up outranking them this year (I doubt it...but you never know).

I'd definately choose SF over Hopkins because of:
1. The weather
2. The location
3. The grading system
4. The price
 
i cannot recall anyone stating that hopkins was #1 medical school. I DO recall that someone stated that Hopkins Hospital is #1. If you could combine all the great Harvard Hospitals, i am sure that "Harvard Hospital" would be better, but you really cant do that.

If you were referring to me, then I must say that I never stated that I was a JHmed student. I, like others, am an undergrad trying to make a very tough decision on where to spend the next 4 or maybe 7 or longer years.

good luck
 
I think that both sides are getting carried away by this UCSF vs Hopkins. I honestly believe that you all are splitting hair a bit. In my personal opinion, I don't think that these top 10 schools differ that much. People are overachievers going in and they will continue to work hard, whether at Yale, Hopkins, UCSF, Columbia, etc. And their schools all carry enough reputation to get them at least noticed by the residency directors. Gunners are everywhere and med school is a lot of material no matter where you go. Your peers and YOU will be stressed out before the exams. And in the end, you have no control over that whatsoever because no matter where you go, it is all the same amount of materials and all the same type of people.

Lastly, if the postbac person can be swayed by a single post, then why bother wasting our energy. GO to UCSF. Hopkins does not need you and you don't need Hopkins either. Plus, people who go with their own gut feeling will never regret their decisions. And even if they do, they can only blame themselves. Make life simplier for yourself.

p.s. when I was a premed, I wanted to make a perfect decision and weigh out EVERYTHING. Now I am at a school that some people would kill to go to and I suddenly realize, all this is just a bunch of crap. med schools feed you certain images but in the end, they are all the same. Base your decision on how much grants they are willing to throw at you, or on how close the school is to your family. But don't buy into "we have the best rep out there and the best hospital" or "our student body is filled with happy, non-competitive kids". Those are loads of BS.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Thewonderer:
•I don't think that these top 10 schools differ that much. People are overachievers going in and they will continue to work hard, whether at Yale, Hopkins, UCSF, Columbia, etc. Your peers and YOU will be stressed out before the exams. And in the end, you have no control over that whatsoever because no matter where you go, it is all the same amount of materials and all the same type of people. •••••I would have to politely disagree. The environment at different schools varies tremendously. It is true that the top programs continue to attract very bright and highly motivated students, but many of these students made their decision at least partially based on the environment. Like it or not, where you go to school DOES shape you as a future physician. Different schools emphasize different things in their curriculum and have different ways of going about teaching. For example, compare Columbia's very traditional curriculum to the "Yale System" or Penn's condensed curriclum to UCSF's integrated one. The environment affects what, where, and how you learn.

In addition, the surrounding community will affect the types of patients you see and your daily activities of life. I can tell you for a fact that living in San Francisco is QUITE a bit different from living in Baltimore.

The bottom line is that environment does matter: one should go where he/she will be happy and most productive.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Mr Bean:
•how does this one post nail the discussion? ... Medical school is rigorous and i'm sure that some people at UCSF didn't go out last night either. jesus christ.••••• •••quote:•••Originally posted by Thewonderer:
•Lastly, if the postbac person can be swayed by a single post, then why bother wasting our energy.•••••Sorry for any misunderstanding. I wasn't saying that the one post made my decision for me. As a future physician, I would hope we'd all use more evidence than that. My comment about putting the nail in the coffin of this post was because no one had posted in a few days, and the thread seemed dead, not that I had made a decision based on this one post. I'm still definitely weighing all of my options...

PB
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by postbacchus:
•I am in the VERY fortunate situation to have been accepted to both schools and I'm a California resident. I'm 90% sure that I'll end up at UCSF, but I was curious if anyone here would actively chose Hopkins over UCSF and, more importantly, WHY. I'm especially curious to hear from any current Hopkins students who love the school because I haven't met anyone like that yet. Thanks!

PB•••••-I would go with Hopkins, the campus is great.
 
"i cannot recall anyone stating that hopkins was #1 medical school."

Page 1 half way down by Watcha
"please hopkins versus UCSF....hopkins is the #1 in the country, and Hopkins is known worldwide..."

I thought that it was said by a Hopkins student (because one posted directly above it..my mistake)

But like I said before...Harvard is #1 on both scales. Where does it say that Hopkins is?
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Vader:
•I would have to politely disagree. The environment at different schools varies tremendously. It is true that the top programs continue to attract very bright and highly motivated students, but many of these students made their decision at least partially based on the environment. Like it or not, where you go to school DOES shape you as a future physician. Different schools emphasize different things in their curriculum and have different ways of going about teaching. For example, compare Columbia's very traditional curriculum to the "Yale System" or Penn's condensed curriclum to UCSF's integrated one. The environment affects what, where, and how you learn.

In addition, the surrounding community will affect the types of patients you see and your daily activities of life. I can tell you for a fact that living in San Francisco is QUITE a bit different from living in Baltimore.

The bottom line is that environment does matter: one should go where he/she will be happy and most productive.•••••Yup, we disagree =)

1. Just because students base their choices on the environment, it does not mean that there is really a "real" difference among all these schools. The most important factor is what kinds of people go there. And we both agree that motivated, highly-focused students tend to fill all these schools and thus I don't see how the environments would be that different from one another. I base my opinions on my friends who are at Penn, Duke, Yale, Stanford, and Wash U. Hey, so maybe UCSF is different after all.

2. Different basic science curricula do not differ that much! Let's break it down. Yale system basically = 2 years of basic sciences, same as elsewhere except they require a thesis, so my Yalie friend has stayed on campus for summer research. Penn squeezes it into 1 1/2 years but overall, it is still the same, mostly lecture and some PBL. Therefore, unless you talk about Cornell and Harvard, I don't see much difference. And that thing about Yale having no grades. That's nice. But my friend there and a bunch of his own friends basically study, work out, sleep and go back to study (all the while trying to fit research during their summers). I don't see how different that is from, say, my friend at Wash U.

3. I am now in the clinical year at a school that is located out of the major metropolitan regions (i.e. no NYC, SF, Chicago, etc.). But since we are THE referral center, we get to see very sick patients from far-away places. And I just finished my ob-gyn rotation where I was going to 4 different county clinics throughout the week. At some of them, more than half of our patients speak Spanish only. Anyway, my point is that all of these schools will let you see different types of patients and give you good clinical experience (yes, even at Stanford and Cornell). But 1) if you want to argue our patients are 90% spanish-speaking while yours are 50% spanish-speaking, then of course, yes, there is a difference and 2) top 10 schools tend to produce specialists and if you want primary care, then don't come here (for ex. my school produced a total of 2 family doc in last year's graduating class). Otherwise, I would still argue that which school you choose will not have an impact on what kind of doctor you will be.

4. I did not say that location does not matter. In fact, if it is cool to live there or it is closer to home, then by all means choose that school. In fact, if they throw more money at you than else where, then go there too. But I don't think education-wise (both basic science and clinical rotations), there is no difference.

🙂
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by UCLA2000:
•"i cannot recall anyone stating that hopkins was #1 medical school."

Page 1 half way down by Watcha
"please hopkins versus UCSF....hopkins is the #1 in the country, and Hopkins is known worldwide..."

I thought that it was said by a Hopkins student (because one posted directly above it..my mistake)

But like I said before...Harvard is #1 on both scales. Where does it say that Hopkins is?•••••ehem mr. ucla2000...since when did I say I was an authority on the subject of rankings...I was giving my personaly opinion...please refer to second watcha post in reference to VADER...yeesh...u need to get out more....may I recommend going to the wooden center and blowing off some of ur steam... <img border="0" alt="[Pity]" title="" src="graemlins/pity.gif" />
 
I think we all need to get out more as this application process has affected us all more than we'd like to admit.

...oh and the wooden center sucks. Anyone who is really into weight lifting would find the facilities there subpar. It's no coincidence that the athlethes use a seperate gym.
 
ucsf is among the handful of top-top-top schools in the country -- and it does it at half the price.

ucsf, hands down 😀
 
Wow... this thread sure exploded since I last saw it!

From where I sit, it seems like there are lots of highly charged opinions being posted. With all due respect, it seems most of these are based on hearsay, anecdotes, emotion, and unsubstantiated opinions.

The simple truth is this... the only way that postbacchus (or anyone else) can really get a feel for Hopkins (or any other school) is to come visit again. Come for the revisit weekend, stay with a student. Talk to lots of people. Sit in on classes. Explore the hospital.

Frankly, no one has any real idea what any school is like unless they're a student there. Don't be swayed too much by the tremendous gossip factor present on SDN. That being said, I hope people who are interested in Hopkins will see the school again and make a decision for themselves. I think it's a fabulous place, and I think nearly all med students here would agree.

Cheers,

doepug
MS II, Johns Hopkins
 
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