Would Appreciate Advice for MD vs. MD/PhD

[enchantediris]

I always thought I would be applying MD/PhD, but now that the beginning of my application cycle is looming, I find myself having cold feet. I do enjoy research and intend to be a physician scientist after medical school, but lately it feels like more and more people (including many MD/PhDs) are telling me that I don't need the PhD to do research.

My Application:

• GPA: >3.9
• MCAT: 524
• Research
  • Basic Science Research Lab: 4 years (working full-time through gap year)
    • several posters, conference abstracts, etc. (mostly university/regional)
    • will be submitting two papers soon (one first author, one second author)
  • Clinical Research (6 months)
    • poster (national but undergraduate-only)
• Clinical
  • 400+ hours volunteering (continuing through gap year)
  • 70 hours shadowing

I think my application would be competitive in either path. Sometimes I think that I would be more competitive as an MD/PhD applicant due to how much research I have in comparison to clinical experience, but other times I get nervous about how competitive MD/PhD applications must be due to the small number of spots in each class. The biggest hang up I have about the MD/PhD path is the amount of time it would take. However, I am also scared that if I apply MD-only, I will regret it later and end up applying MD/PhD internally anyway (thus losing time, funding, or both).

If I were to describe my ideal job post-graduation, it would be an 80/20 clinic/research split. My desire become a physician hinges mostly on physician-patient interaction, but I also couldn't imagine only seeing patients day in and day out. I am also pretty sure that I have no desire to become a PI and have my own lab. Would this split be possible with only an MD degree and how common is it? Does anyone have any other advice? Thanks in advance!

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[Lucca]

1. It is entirely accurate that you do not need a PhD to do basic research as a physician. You do need research training no matter what. There are several ways to get that training; enrolling in a combined degree program being one of them and that comes with its pros and cons.

2. If you want to do 80/20 clinic/research and don't want to run a lab or be a PI then, personally, I don't think there is a reason to get a PhD. If you want to do basic science, it is hard to imagine any type of basic science career being possible at only 20% effort, and, even then, if one is possible it probably expects the PhD holding physician scientist to bring in grant money (I.e. Run a lab or research group).

Now, if you want to do other types of research, there are certainly ways to find projects that won't demand a 50/50 or more split of your time. I imagine a lot of these are clinical research but I won't comment any further on this seeing as I am only a Premed.

3. You have an 80+ LizzyM with all of the boxes checked and substantial research. You will be *way more than* competitive for any MD program you apply to, including the top dual degree programs. I wouldn't be surprised if someone with your application received a full ride at several very highly regarded medical schools.

Personally, I don't think your career goals (not wanting to run a lab and do mostly research) fit the goals of an MD/PhD program and you would be better off in an MD program where you could also explore different types of research should you choose to stay in that part of academe. Just my opinion.

 

[enchantediris]

1. It is entirely accurate that you do not need a PhD to do basic research as a physician. You do need research training no matter what. There are several ways to get that training; enrolling in a combined degree program being one of them and that comes with its pros and cons.

2. If you want to do 80/20 clinic/research and don't want to run a lab or be a PI then, personally, I don't think there is a reason to get a PhD. If you want to do basic science, it is hard to imagine any type of basic science career being possible at only 20% effort, and, even then, if one is possible it probably expects the PhD holding physician scientist to bring in grant money (I.e. Run a lab or research group).

Now, if you want to do other types of research, there are certainly ways to find projects that won't demand a 50/50 or more split of your time. I imagine a lot of these are clinical research but I won't comment any further on this seeing as I am only a Premed.

3. You have an 80+ LizzyM with all of the boxes checked and substantial research. You will be *way more than* competitive for any MD program you apply to, including the top dual degree programs. I wouldn't be surprised if someone with your application received a full ride at several very highly regarded medical schools.

Personally, I don't think your career goals (not wanting to run a lab and do mostly research) fit the goals of an MD/PhD program and you would be better off in an MD program where you could also explore different types of research should you choose to stay in that part of academe. Just my opinion.

Thanks for your response! I think I was really seeking validation in my choice not to apply MD/PhD when I've been receiving pressure to do so (especially from my PI, who I'm sure would prefer I drop the MD and just apply PhD ).

Although I've mostly done bench research, it's more computational than wet lab and I think that can be more easily applied to clinical needs (like bioinformatics or personalized medicine). I think I will probably concentrate on applying to MD programs with a built in research year or half-year, and perhaps look into doing an integrated masters. Thanks again

 

[Lucca]

Thanks for your response! I think I was really seeking validation in my choice not to apply MD/PhD when I've been receiving pressure to do so (especially from my PI, who I'm sure would prefer I drop the MD and just apply PhD ).

Although I've mostly done bench research, it's more computational than wet lab and I think that can be more easily applied to clinical needs (like bioinformatics or personalized medicine). I think I will probably concentrate on applying to MD programs with a built in research year or half-year, and perhaps look into doing an integrated masters. Thanks again

That's a good plan! I also do computational research so that is definitely more flexible overall in terms of what kind of things you can do (anything from running a lab to consulting for industry to doing short studies on huge databases).

I'll also say that outcomes from MD/PhD programs are varied. Many grads stay in research/science/academe without really doing the canonical "physician scientist" thing. I just think that the PhD is unnecessary for a lot of those types of careers and one should at least enter the program with the idea of doing basic science research in the academy or industry. Of course, that doesn't mean that many Md/PhDs won't finish the program and end up with a different kind of career altogether.