UCSFx2017

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In hindsight, would you have gone to P/F school if given the choice?

Does P/F significantly take off the edge of being in the top 10 for specializing?
 

AlbinoPolarBear

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In hindsight, would you have gone to P/F school if given the choice?

Does P/F significantly take off the edge of being in the top 10 for specializing?
I'm not gonna answer this, because I have already answered this question for you in a previous thread.

Save money and go to VCU. What do you want to specialize in anyways?

VCU has a good ortho match record. 2 years ago, they matched 10 to ortho. OMFS has their own exam now, so you can just focus on that.
 

a2ndragoon89

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P/F is better than grades. My friends stress out too much over nothing.
 
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UCSFx2017

UCSFx2017

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Every single person I've talked to has told me to go to VCU. But I keep thinking about the "What if's". As in, what if I slip up and don't manage to maintain high rank? What if I can't find enough time to study for the CBSE? Then I start thinking about UCSF and how it's P/F and gives you ample time in the summer to study for CBSE, take boards, or research. Worrying about one less thing (ranking), seems like it would take a considerable edge off.
 

aznboi89x

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Every single person I've talked to has told me to go to VCU. But I keep thinking about the "What if's". As in, what if I slip up and don't manage to maintain high rank? What if I can't find enough time to study for the CBSE? Then I start thinking about UCSF and how it's P/F and gives you ample time in the summer to study for CBSE, take boards, or research. Worrying about one less thing (ranking), seems like it would take a considerable edge off.
its the risk you gonna have to take. If you DO choose VCU, you have to bust bawls instead of wondering why later on.. Make that as your motivation!
 

a2ndragoon89

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Look, stress over all of your exams for 4 years or stress over one exam and do lots of extracurricular activities (research, volunteer, internships) and make yourself a better overall. Also, you can't beat the bay area man. I miss it.
 

a2ndragoon89

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P/F is a great system. I had a beer with one of the dean candidates at michigan, and he was telling me about how he wanted to change the system to P/F here. It's obviously gaining traction elsewhere. His rationale is that grades ultimately don't matter and you can do whatever you want to do or whatever specialty you wish if you apply yourself.
 
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UCSFx2017

UCSFx2017

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Look, stress over all of your exams for 4 years or stress over one exam and do lots of extracurricular activities (research, volunteer, internships) and make yourself a better overall. Also, you can't beat the bay area man. I miss it.
Thanks. That actually helps a lot.
 

Member902507

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P/F is a great system. I had a beer with one of the dean candidates at michigan, and he was telling me about how he wanted to change the system to P/F here. It's obviously gaining traction elsewhere. His rationale is that grades ultimately don't matter and you can do whatever you want to do or whatever specialty you wish if you apply yourself.
I hope they change it to P/F at UMich soon...

and, you're from The Bay?!
 

dmdluffy

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P/F is the way to go. Way less stress than having to deal with grades. That said, VCU is an amazing school. I think you're fretting about OMS a bit early. If you constantly look at the big picture and tackle it that way, you're bound to fail. Just take it one test at a time, one class at a time. CBSE is a hurdle but it's just another thing to deal with when the time is ready. Ultimately, dental school is hard no matter where you go and different programs will present different challenges. Just remember 4-6 years of OMS training will be much harder :p
 

agent2362

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Take it from a senior in dental school at a ranked school who had his grades suffer significantly while studying for the NBME CBSE in a system where no time off was given. Grades suck and clinical stuff is some of the most subjective crap you've ever seen in your life. Do yourself a favor, go to a school with strong science curriculum, P/F (eg. Columbia, UCSF, UCLA, Harvard, UPenn ect), rock the NBME and you will save yourself the headache of wasting incredible amounts of time doing stuff that doesn't even make you a better dentist, just because you are deathly afraid to drop one spot in the rankings.
 

NDPitch

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From what I know about pass fail, there's still marks that get recorded. You can pass with 70s or you can pass with a 98. The professors that will be mentoring you and writing letters of rec will still know what kind of student you are. I don't think pass fail should be used as a crutch to study less so you have time to study for something else. Maybe thats why only the top students match into OMS, because only they could handle that ridiculous load. Either way, your exams still have to be graded to a certain percentage to determine pass fail. With that, I say go to VCU and be the best student you can be. The rest will fall into place, wherever you go to school.
 
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My OMFS faculty has told me that they don't even review applicants from P/F schools. To them this doesn't help gauge anything about their academic potential. This program is regarded pretty highly. Something to think about
 

bmxbobby2004

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Every single person I've talked to has told me to go to VCU. But I keep thinking about the "What if's". As in, what if I slip up and don't manage to maintain high rank? What if I can't find enough time to study for the CBSE? Then I start thinking about UCSF and how it's P/F and gives you ample time in the summer to study for CBSE, take boards, or research. Worrying about one less thing (ranking), seems like it would take a considerable edge off.

If you thinking about "what ifs." You can think about the flip side...what if you go to ucsf and either don't match into OMS or decide you don't want to and you get stuck doing general dentistry....then you picked a school that is 150K more expensive and are stuck with a loan payment that is probably 1500 more per month!
 

Bereno

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My OMFS faculty has told me that they don't even review applicants from P/F schools. To them this doesn't help gauge anything about their academic potential. This program is regarded pretty highly. Something to think about
Sounds like Parkland lol. There are an aweful lot of OMS residents that come from P/F schools, so I would take this comment with a grain of salt. :)
 

bing12

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if you thinking about "what ifs." you can think about the flip side...what if you go to ucsf and either don't match into oms or decide you don't want to and you get stuck doing general dentistry....then you picked a school that is 150k more expensive and are stuck with a loan payment that is probably 1500 more per month!
+1
 

bing12

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sounds like parkland lol. There are an aweful lot of oms residents that come from p/f schools, so i would take this comment with a grain of salt. :)
+1
 

thewingman

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My OMFS faculty has told me that they don't even review applicants from P/F schools. To them this doesn't help gauge anything about their academic potential. This program is regarded pretty highly. Something to think about
yeah, I am sure your faculty would not review an applicant from columbia, harvard, or uconn just because they are p/f schools (even if the applicant has good board scores, etc.) :laugh:

If this is the case, your program is not even worth attending. If this is their logic when it comes to attendance, I wonder what other types of errors they make when it comes to research, training etc. Can you name your program so that I know not to even apply there?
 

The Anhedonia

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the school doesn't make a successful applicant in gaining admissions into residency, the student does. stop stressing out so god**** much about where you go to dental school and just perform to the best of your abilities. an excellent student/dentist is neither advantaged or disadvantaged by the institution they attend.
 
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You can have grades and not stress. It's the person, not the system.

In my opinion, P/F offers no incentive to work hard; at least throw Honors in there. Passing dental school is a cakewalk. Earning A's (95+) is very difficult in most classes. I think everyone should just pull a Patch Adams and not ever look at his/her grades/rank. He finished near the top of his class in med school.

But yes, my class freaks out about EVERY SINGLE TEST/QUIZ. It's exhausting.
 

Bereno

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You can have grades and not stress. It's the person, not the system.

In my opinion, P/F offers no incentive to work hard; at least throw Honors in there. Passing dental school is a cakewalk. Earning A's (95+) is very difficult in most classes. I think everyone should just pull a Patch Adams and not ever look at his/her grades/rank. He finished near the top of his class in med school.

But yes, my class freaks out about EVERY SINGLE TEST/QUIZ. It's exhausting.
I don't know if I agree with the bolded statement. I am attending a school that is the epitome of P/F in that we have no grades, no honors, and no class rank. That said, everyone here busts their butt on every test. Most people start "cramming" 3 weeks prior to the exam lol. This is because it takes an awful lot of effort just to pass. Might be different other places, but I know you best have your work ethic here at UConn, or you simply won't get through the program.
 

pmanning19

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I agree with Bereno. Columbia is P/F/H... everyone still works really hard. You could say that honors is incentive, but our ranking system (ranked in 1/3s) is decided by not only how many H's you get, but also the grades you received in each course. That being said, I know a few people who do not care about honors or specializing, yet still honor. Passing the exams are not cakewalks... not everyone needs an incentive to work hard. People still freak out about every single exam.

BTW, you can pass every exam in a course, but be forced to retake the course if you barely pass and the committee decides "barely passing" was not good enough.
 

yappy

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I agree. This is professional school. You should be motivated by the pursuit of becoming the best, educated, well rounded dentist possible. If you need letters for that then that seems to be a bad place to be operating from. The situation doesn't change much in PP either; when, you will have no grades but may have ample room to grow and improve as a new dentist.

I don't know if I agree with the bolded statement. I am attending a school that is the epitome of P/F in that we have no grades, no honors, and no class rank. That said, everyone here busts their butt on every test. Most people start "cramming" 3 weeks prior to the exam lol. This is because it takes an awful lot of effort just to pass. Might be different other places, but I know you best have your work ethic here at UConn, or you simply won't get through the program.
 
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I don't know if I agree with the bolded statement. I am attending a school that is the epitome of P/F in that we have no grades, no honors, and no class rank. That said, everyone here busts their butt on every test. Most people start "cramming" 3 weeks prior to the exam lol. This is because it takes an awful lot of effort just to pass. Might be different other places, but I know you best have your work ethic here at UConn, or you simply won't get through the program.
I kind of base my perspective of P/F and P/F/H off of Harvard and Columbia from talking to students when I interviewed there. Columbia students said the H is what incentivized them to work hard, while Harvard students said every class was passable and they were under almost no stress. So I'm not just speculating. UConn might be different, but again that's your individual opinion.

I think it's fair to say that schools vary dramatically in their structure. Obviously, people will study far in advance for block exams as opposed to schools that have several exams every single week. But also, while we have several people barely passing dental school, several people almost have 4.0's. So in my opinion, passing my dental school is quite easy, and if it were just P/F without changing its rigor then my incentive to work hard would diminish b/c I would have to just pass rather than try to get 95+ in every course to get an A.

I don't know why people stress about rank. It's beyond your control; you can't control how your classmates perform, only yourself. Why anyone would even check their class rank until it's pertinent for residencies is beyond me. Is it really going to motivate one to do better when you should already be doing your best?

I personally don't check my grades till the end of the semester (save for practicals/labwork). Don't see the point. Makes life more enjoyable.
 
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punchdrunk7

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P/F would be amazing! The classes I am in that are P/F I actually love going to.
 
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P/F is how every dental school should be run. If you want to rank students academically that is what standardized tests are for that can be applied fairly to every student no matter where you went to school. I like how every specialty can now set up their own standardized test to gauge their applicants.
 

Bereno

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I kind of base my perspective of P/F and P/F/H off of Harvard and Columbia from talking to students when I interviewed there. Columbia students said the H is what incentivized them to work hard, while Harvard students said every class was passable and they were under almost no stress. So I'm not just speculating. UConn might be different, but again that's your individual opinion.

I think it's fair to say that schools vary dramatically in their structure. Obviously, people will study far in advance for block exams as opposed to schools that have several exams every single week. But also, while we have several people barely passing dental school, several people almost have 4.0's. So in my opinion, passing my dental school is quite easy, and if it were just P/F without changing its rigor then my incentive to work hard would diminish b/c I would have to just pass rather than try to get 95+ in every course to get an A.

I don't know why people stress about rank. It's beyond your control; you can't control how your classmates perform, only yourself. Why anyone would even check their class rank until it's pertinent for residencies is beyond me. Is it really going to motivate one to do better when you should already be doing your best?

I personally don't check my grades till the end of the semester (save for practicals/labwork). Don't see the point. Makes life more enjoyable.
Yeah, it is probably different at each school :) I also think its smart not to look at your class rank till after your tests or simply later in the year - too stressful to do it beforehand lol
 

jay47

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My OMFS faculty has told me that they don't even review applicants from P/F schools. To them this doesn't help gauge anything about their academic potential. This program is regarded pretty highly. Something to think about
One of the specialties at my school does not even interview applicants from P/F schools. He said, paraphrasing, "they don't even consider them".

Look at it this way, if you are willing to work hard, then you can do well at any dental school. Going to a P/F school will limit your options to SOME specialty clinics, and give you less distinction for others. Don't worry so much about "being top ten", when the alternative is not being ranked at all.
 
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Yeah, Columbia, UCSF, UCLA, UConn, and Harvard have major trouble matching into specialty programs because they are P/F
 

KillaCam

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My OMFS faculty has told me that they don't even review applicants from P/F schools. To them this doesn't help gauge anything about their academic potential. This program is regarded pretty highly. Something to think about
Yeah UCLA has been hit really rough as well. I heard that only 8 or so matched OMS this year. They must have all had family members on staff at programs because all their applications should have been immediately set on fire once they saw the UCLA name on the app. I have no connections. Guess I'm screwed. Thanks for the heads up LilFalafel. A true life saver....
 

jay47

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Yeah UCLA has been hit really rough as well. I heard that only 8 or so matched OMS this year. They must have all had family members on staff at programs because all their applications should have been immediately set on fire once they saw the UCLA name on the app. I have no connections. Guess I'm screwed. Thanks for the heads up LilFalafel. A true life saver....
Yea, the last 4 years have been rough. Only about 30 on average matched ortho, peds, omfs.
youre right we only matched 20+ people into ortho, peds, and omfs this year at columbia...tough year
You guys....sarcasm is not necessary. It is implied that many of the P/F schools are great schools, but at the same time there are some (not most) programs that do not give applicants from these schools as much merit. You shouldn't choose or not choose a school based on P/F but on how well you think you will fit there (and cost should also be a major factor)
 

KillaCam

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You guys....sarcasm is not necessary. It is implied that many of the P/F schools are great schools, but at the same time there are some (not most) programs that do not give applicants from these schools as much merit. You shouldn't choose or not choose a school based on P/F but on how well you think you will fit there (and cost should also be a major factor)
You really think that there are some programs that dont give UCLA, Columbia, Harvard, UCSF applicants as much merit? I don't think so. I think that they just have one less (althougn can be important) item to base them off when making decisions to interview/accept applicants. I would assume that they just place more weight on the objective data like board scores.