Would you attend Touro-NY if the issues that took place in the last cycle never happened?

[779663]

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I ask because i'm considering submitting a secondary there after finishing all my other secondary apps.

I know they had some issues in the last year or so, what i'm interested in though is if they are still a fine enough school to obtain one's medical education from. Let's assume for a moment that you were accepted and could somehow 100% guarantee that you would start there and avoid the stuff that happened in the last cycle. Is there any reason not to attend?

I see a lot of students say not to even bother applying there, but all of their reasons seem to stem from the fact that they accepted a bunch of students then later told them too bad you actually can't come study here. Aside from this point which i sincerely doubt will ever happen again because surely the school has learned their lesson from this whole ordeal, is there any reason not to go there?

The only thing i can think of is that i once saw someone post a photo of what the school looks like from the outside and admittedly it did look crappy and not exactly state of the art, but that is a weird thing to decide based only on the outside of the school. It may have been a misleading photo as well, there was minimal context provided.

Can anyone shed some light on why this school should be avoided ASIDE FROM THE RECENT RESCINDED ACCEPTANCES SCANDAL?

 

[Dr. Death]

No. Touro is the McDonalds of medical schools and you couldn't force me to live in NY for 4 days let alone 4 years.

 

[Noxy]

I am wondering the same thing..still haven't submitted. It looks a little run down and not sure of the surrounding area. I would have to bring my hubby and 2 kids wherever I go so im hesitant as well.

 

[Peach Newport]

No. Touro is the McDonalds of medical schools and you couldn't force me to live in NY for 4 days let alone 4 years.

Inaccurate and tremendously insulting to those of us who work our asses off here.

They have problems, yeah. But no more problems than the average DO school, just one particular one that SDN will probably never forget.

You do have to keep in mind that NO ONE WHO WAS ACCEPTED INTO THE D.O. PROGRAM HAD THEIR ACCEPTANCE RESCINDED OR DEFERRED. ZERO.

People were talked to about deferring, sometimes in ways that were really crappy. It was a scary 4 days for some people. But no one was forced to defer or withdraw. The only exceptions were one or two people who screwed up the deposit paperwork, which had nothing to do with the issue we're talking about.

Touro NY did, however, forcibly defer a few people accepted into their Special Master's Program.

They'll get you into residency and make you a doctor.

As for the facilities, they're mostly fine. I've been to many DO schools and Touro is pretty middle-of-the-road in terms of facilities. The facade of the building on 125th street isn't exactly beautiful, but it's a fairly sized building with about the same amount of space, in total, as I've seen at other medical schools.

The surrounding area, 125th street, is an okay area that's mostly a Tourist attraction. It's one of the busiest streets in NYC. Some surrounding areas of Harlem aren't fantastic but they aren't war zones.

 

[nejikon]

I interviewed at touro ny and it was very chill and open minded. Tbh it was the only school that I kind of wanted to go to, but I ended up declining their offer due to other non-related reasons. I don't understand all the hate that the school gets, most of it has little to do with your main goal of studying medicine.. The school looks like crap on the outside, but inside is manageable and the location is so bad that you can get a reasonably priced place to live compared to anywhere else in NY. I think you should try at least because it is still a good education and the resources are abundant. Also, the faculty were super reasonable people. If you want to save money, it is one of the cheaper NY schools. In terms of prestige, NYIT and any of the other top schools may serve a "whole package" kind of deal. But if you just want to get an education and focus on treating a medically diverse population, then it is for you. Overall, I think its a diamond in the rough and worth the effort.

 

[Marrowist]

If it was the school that accepted me, you better believe I would go. As far as how the building looks, if someone is expecting ivory towers and such, be prepared for a rude awakening. I would attend lecture in a cargo van if they conferred the DO degree.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You couldn't incentivize me enough to get me to live in NY. Ever.

 

[bigindian4891]

You'd think people going into a field that deals with humans wouldn't judge a book by its cover.

Every Touro student I've talked to said they provide a solid education and feel prepared going into rotations. And these students get residencies, same as all the other DO schools. Touro isnt a Caribbean school, folks.

 

[kkosp2451]

No. I don't like their "flipped classroom" system. You attend class all day, then come home only to have to watch 4-5 hours worth of lectures containing new material. Most medical schools will require you to either go to class OR watch the lectures from home. But Touro requires both which takes up a LOT of time.

As a Touro student, you attend class for clickers (which factor into your overall grade). There are some days where you are in class from 9AM - 5PM, then come home to have to watch another 3 or 4 lectures for the next day. Some people can handle sitting in class for 8 hours, then coming home and learning hours worth of new material and that's awesome for them, but imagine having to study for an exam on top of this. I feel like it causes people to cram just so they can get through the material and do well on the exam, but you don't have enough time to actually learn the material and completely comprehend it - and I think this could potentially explain why people say that their board scores tend to be lower than that of other DO schools.

 

[Peach Newport]

No. I don't like their "flipped classroom" system. You attend class all day, then come home only to have to watch 4-5 hours worth of lectures containing new material. Most medical schools will require you to either go to class OR watch the lectures from home. But Touro requires both which takes up a LOT of time.

As a Touro student, you attend class for clickers (which factor into your overall grade). There are some days where you are in class from 9AM - 5PM, then come home to have to watch another 3 or 4 lectures for the next day. Some people can handle sitting in class for 8 hours, then coming home and learning hours worth of new material and that's awesome for them, but imagine having to study for an exam on top of this. I feel like it causes people to cram just so they can get through the material and do well on the exam, but you don't have enough time to actually learn the material and completely comprehend it - and I think this could potentially explain why people say that their board scores tend to be lower than that of other DO schools.

The flipped classroom + mandatory attendance IS a pain in the ass, but you do learn the material. It would be more fair to say that you have to work harder than students at other schools to obtain the same result, but you do get that result.

The board scores for COMLEX 1 and Step 1 are mostly fine, which reflect the pre-clinical curriculum. It's the COMLEX 2 and 3 scores, which reflect the clinical curriculum that really need work.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

No because it looks like it is in the attic of a 99 cent store and NYC is a sh*thole


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Goro]

Before their recent overbooking ****up, I routinely recommended Touro-NY.

I ask because i'm considering submitting a secondary there after finishing all my other secondary apps.

I know they had some issues in the last year or so, what i'm interested in though is if they are still a fine enough school to obtain one's medical education from. Let's assume for a moment that you were accepted and could somehow 100% guarantee that you would start there and avoid the stuff that happened in the last cycle. Is there any reason not to attend?

I see a lot of students say not to even bother applying there, but all of their reasons seem to stem from the fact that they accepted a bunch of students then later told them too bad you actually can't come study here. Aside from this point which i sincerely doubt will ever happen again because surely the school has learned their lesson from this whole ordeal, is there any reason not to go there?

The only thing i can think of is that i once saw someone post a photo of what the school looks like from the outside and admittedly it did look crappy and not exactly state of the art, but that is a weird thing to decide based only on the outside of the school. It may have been a misleading photo as well, there was minimal context provided.

Can anyone shed some light on why this school should be avoided ASIDE FROM THE RECENT RESCINDED ACCEPTANCES SCANDAL?

 

[doczebra]

The flipped classroom + mandatory attendance IS a pain in the ass, but you do learn the material. IT would be more fair to say that you have to work harder than students at other schools to obtain the same result, but you do get that result.

The board scores for COMLEX 1 and Step 1 are mostly fine, which reflect the pre-clinical curriculum. It's the COMLEX 2 and 3 scores, which reflect the clinical curriculum that really need work.

This is sadly false. Just this weekend I had my former roommates ( current 2nd years) facebook message me asking about acid-base disorders.

That's honestly downright an embarrassing reflection on Touro's didactics. My roommates are bright students and both had 30+ mcat but Touro just makes you memorize and purge, there is no understanding. If there was, then they wouldn't have difficulty with it after covering it in first year biochem AND physio. While we were clicking and cramming for exams, students at other medical schools were learning.

And given that Touro's curriculum is 2 years of memorizing first aid in powerpoint form, you'd think the comlex average would be 600. Not, 60 students held back from taking it between harlem and middletown, with a 514 average from the remaining students who got permission to take the test.

There is something grossly wrong with Touro.

 

[Peach Newport]

This is sadly false. Just this weekend I had my former roommates ( current 2nd years) facebook message me asking about acid-base disorders.

That's honestly downright an embarrassing reflection on Touro's didactics. My roommates are bright students and both had 30+ mcat but Touro just makes you memorize and purge, there is no understanding. If there was, then they wouldn't have difficulty with it after covering it in first year biochem AND physio. While we were clicking and cramming for exams, students at other medical schools were learning.

And given that Touro's curriculum is 2 years of memorizing first aid in powerpoint form, you'd think the comlex average would be 600. Not, 60 students held back from taking it between harlem and middletown, with a 514 average from the remaining students who got permission to take the test.

There is something grossly wrong with Touro.

I just don't get how our pre-clinicals could be that different from other schools.

I've sat in on classes at other medical schools. Seemed pretty similar to me, just in a different form.

We use the same textbooks and are responsible for the same material.

I just can't figure out how Touro's pre-clinical teaching could be so subpar as you say. I mean, you're a Touro student and you apparently know your Acid-Base disorders well.

Also, 514 is pretty much the nationwide average score, and pretty much every school I interviewed at holds people back who don't do well on practice tests. The average score, at an average DO school being the national average doesn't spell "something very wrong" to me. To me it spells "average."

 

[doczebra]

I just don't get how our pre-clinicals could be that different from other schools.

I've sat in on classes at other medical schools. Seemed pretty similar to me, just in a different form.

We use the same textbooks and are responsible for the same material.

I just can't figure out how Touro's pre-clinical teaching could be so subpar as you say. I mean, you're a Touro student and you apparently know your Acid-Base disorders well.

Also, 514 is pretty much the nationwide average score, and pretty much every school I interviewed at holds people back who don't do well on practice tests. The average score, at an average DO school being the national average doesn't spell "something very wrong" to me. To me it spells "average."

Actually no they dont. Touro NY and Carribean schools are the only ones that withhold authorization to sign up for the test until students pass they internal test. At other osteopathic schools the comsae is only used as a guiding/gauge thing to help the students.

514 is a laughable score given how every slide is basically from First Aid. Get your hand on practice quizes from other schools. We had a few from low tier MD schools and they were extremely challenging. If you consistently 97-100% Touro's pharm, path, and MMI, that'll translate to 70% on uworld.

I had to skip class and take the unnecessary C's due to Touro's asinine attendance policy to have the time to break my uworld average to 90+. Now I have a good board score and C's which will hurt at every competitive specialty.

Next time, look through the match list and see for yourself that somehow the "highest entering stat" DO school manages to take the most promising DO students and put out a match list with ZERO competitive matches. Only crappy AOA sub-specialty spots (which barely care about boards) and a sea of community FM/IM.

 

[Peach Newport]

Actually no they dont. Touro NY and Carribean schools are the only ones that withhold authorization to sign up for the test until students pass they internal test. At other osteopathic schools the comsae is only used as a guiding/gauge thing to help the students.

514 is a laughable score given how every slide is basically from First Aid. Get your hand on practice quizes from other schools. We had a few from low tier MD schools and they were extremely challenging. If you consistently 97-100% Touro's pharm, path, and MMI, that'll translate to 70% on uworld.

I had to skip class and take the unnecessary C's due to Touro's asinine attendance policy to have the time to break my uworld average to 90+. Now I have a good board score and C's which will hurt at every competitive specialty.

Next time, look through the match list and see for yourself that somehow the "highest entering stat" DO school manages to take the most promising DO students and put out a match list with ZERO competitive matches. Only crappy AOA sub-specialty spots (which barely care about boards) and a sea of community FM/IM.

I just don't get how you can actually have an inferior curriculum while still covering the same material. I mean, maybe I just don't get it, but I always thought every medical school teaches the same s**t in the first 2 years, Touro included. What's the problem with Touro that you don't learn the material?

 

[doczebra]

I just don't get how you can actually have an inferior curriculum while still covering the same material. I mean, maybe I just don't get it, but I always thought every medical school teaches the same s**t in the first 2 years, Touro included. What's the problem with Touro that you don't learn the material?

touro is 100% memorizing. We've had straight-A students marginally pass step-1. The issue with memorizing is a week later 70% of the material is forgotten.

Medicine is meant to be learned in a pathophysiological way. You're supposed to learn how the renal system functions, then learn how the virulence factor of a pathogen may effect it and when a question is presented about the process midway overlayed with 5 other concurrent factors and be able to answer it.

At Touro the entire test is: "what's the epithelial cell type at the collecting tubules?" "what's the virulence factor of E.coli?" They just make it look fancy by adding a whole paragraph about the patient's demographics and whatnot prior to the real question, but they're still extremely simplistic.

Look at how other medical schools do it. You'll get most of your questions along the lines of "Person has Pyelonephritis, HTN, recurrent DVT. He is on drug X, Y, and Z. Histologically what would you observe at the glomeruli?"

In those questions you're supposed to know everything about the systems and be able to weight which ones may have the greatest effects. The closest thing we had to that was CS, but CS was all Step 2 material.

--
Tldr: Touro wastes time with mandatory attendance. As a result of less personal preparation time for students but trying to cover the same material, they just make you memorize first order factoids.

97-100% on the tests with regular attendance got me 70% on uworld. Skipping class and ignoring the factoids, got me B's and C's, but 93% on uworld. Had it been any other medical school, the course grades would've correlated to uworld and usmle scores.

 

[Peach Newport]

touro is 100% memorizing. We've had straight-A students marginally pass step-1. The issue with memorizing is a week later 70% of the material is forgotten.

Medicine is meant to be learned in a pathophysiological way. You're supposed to learn how the renal system functions, then learn how the virulence factor of a pathogen may effect it and when a question is presented about the process midway overlayed with 5 other concurrent factors and be able to answer it.

At Touro the entire test is: "what's the epithelial cell type at the collecting tubules?" "what's the virulence factor of E.coli?" They just make it look fancy by adding a whole paragraph about the patient's demographics and whatnot prior to the real question, but they're still extremely simplistic.

Look at how other medical schools do it. You'll get most of your questions along the lines of "Person has Pyelonephritis, HTN, recurrent DVT. He is on drug X, Y, and Z. Histologically what would you observe at the glomeruli?"

In those questions you're supposed to know everything about the systems and be able to weight which ones may have the greatest effects. The closest thing we had to that was CS, but CS was all Step 2 material.

--
Tldr: Touro wastes time with mandatory attendance, as a result of less time but trying to cover the same material, they just make you memorize first order factoids.

97-100% on the tests with attendance got me 70% on uworld. Skipping and ignoring the factoids, got me B's and C's, but 93% on uworld. Had it been any other medical school, the course grades would've correlated to uworld and usmle scores.

Like I said, I might have no idea what I'm talking about, but the exam questions so far have seemed a lot more like your second example than the first. Perhaps they are changing things every year, but then how do they grade up against the previous year's classes?

 

[doczebra]

Like I said, I might have no idea what I'm talking about, but the exam questions so far have seemed a lot more like your second example than the first. Perhaps they are changing things every year, but then how do they grade up against the previous year's classes?

They dont change the tests.

Touro Q:

1) "56 year old female presents to the clinic with left flank pain and hematouria.... (fancy irrelevant paragraph) .. lab results, hyperuremic. What is the principal material of the solid masses passed by the patient?"

That's basically a question reworded to: "What are kidney stones made of?"

or

2) "56 year old male, african american male patient comes in with Endocarditis. Auscultation results are X. His Vitals are Y ( further irrelevant paragraph about his vitals) ... grams stains positive, catalase positive. What the most likely pathogen?"

reworded, that's: "what's the endocarditis bacteria that g+, cat-?"


The practice questions we saw from MD schools:

"56 year female...Pt has goodpasture's, aberhalden-kaufman,disemminated intravascular coagullibility, drug-induced lupus, MCTD, and is on isoniazid for Tb. What will be the most significant histopathological finding at the glomeruli"

And they'll make the answer choices 4 very similar answers and put a 5th distractor that'll be the most tempting, checking off most of what you're looking for, but it'll have viral glomerulonephritis findings slipped in as well and expect you to know that it's clearly wrong since INH prevents viral nephritis.

Touro is not the school you want to be at if you want to do well on the boards.

 

[kkosp2451]

I honestly think it comes down to Touro students not having the time to really sit with the material. You have class from 9AM-5PM - assuming you take time to commute/grab something to eat for dinner, you hypothetically start watching lectures at 6PM. If you have 4 lectures that night, that equates to probably a little over 4 hours (although this is all assuming that you are watching them on 1.75x speed, since lectures generally range from 1 hour to 1 hour 45 mins). By the second or third lecture, you find it very difficult to concentrate since you've basically been studying for the past 10 hours. You power through the lectures half-a**ed just for the sake of watching them so that you have a glimpse of what's going on the next day in clickers.

In clickers, you are given a short amount of time to answer the question so you "control + f" for the sake of getting the question right. You may end class earlier that day, but you have another 3 - 4 lectures waiting for you at home.

Now imagine this, except trying to study for a test that upcoming Monday - on top of all the lectures you already need to watch. The most reasonable thing would be to skip the weeks lectures and try to do well on the exam, right? Clicker grades are only 10% but exams are worth a lot more. You cram and re-watch all the lectures you watched once when you were half-asleep. Now that the test is over, you have a TON of lectures to make up (the ones you skipped), but now you have another exam the following Monday. And it's basically an endless cycle.

Imagine if attendance wasn't mandatory, if they made online quizzes in place of clickers and you could spend your day just watching lectures without sitting in class. Imagine how much time you'd save. I think THAT is the reason why students feel they do not know the material. I'm not saying all, but a lot of students (including myself last year) definitely felt that they were just playing catch and release, rather than building a foundation of medical knowledge that they could add to.

 

[Peach Newport]

They dont change the tests.

Touro Q:

1) "56 year old female presents to the clinic with left flank pain and hematouria.... (fancy irrelevant paragraph) .. lab results, hyperuremic. What is the principal material of the solid masses passed by the patient?"

That's basically a question reworded to: "What are kidney stones made of?"

or

2) "56 year old male, african american male patient comes in with Endocarditis. Auscultation results are X. His Vitals are Y ( further irrelevant paragraph about his vitals) ... grams stains positive, catalase positive. What the most likely pathogen?"

reworded, that's: "what's the endocarditis bacteria that g+, cat-?"


The practice questions we saw from MD schools:

"56 year female...Pt has goodpasture's, aberhalden-kaufman,disemminated intravascular coagullibility, drug-induced lupus, MCTD, and is on isoniazid for Tb. What will be the most significant histopathological finding at the glomeruli"

And they'll make the answer choices 4 very similar answers and put a 5th distractor that'll be the most tempting, checking off most of what you're looking for, but it'll have viral glomerulonephritis findings slipped in as well and expect you to know that it's clearly wrong since INH prevents viral nephritis.

Touro is not the school you want to be at if you want to do well on the boards.

It's kind of hard to beleive we're all just f**ked. Our Match list this year wasn't great but it wasn't the worst of the DOs either. Our match lists in previous years were much better, 2015 was great even if you discount the ACGME Derm match. Our board scores weren't great but far from the worst of the DOs (at least for COMLEX 1).

I honestly think it comes down to Touro students not having the time to really sit with the material. You have class from 9AM-5PM - assuming you take time to commute/grab something to eat for dinner, you hypothetically start watching lectures at 6PM. If you have 4 lectures that night, that equates to probably a little over 4 hours (although this is all assuming that you are watching them on 1.75x speed, since lectures generally range from 1 hour to 1 hour 45 mins). By the second or third lecture, you find it very difficult to concentrate since you've basically been studying for the past 10 hours. You power through the lectures half-a**ed just for the sake of watching them so that you have a glimpse of what's going on the next day in clickers.

In clickers, you are given a short amount of time to answer the question so you "control + f" for the sake of getting the question right. You may end class earlier that day, but you have another 3 - 4 lectures waiting for you at home.

Now imagine this, except trying to study for a test that upcoming Monday - on top of all the lectures you already need to watch. The most reasonable thing would be to skip the weeks lectures and try to do well on the exam, right? Clicker grades are only 10% but exams are worth a lot more. You cram and re-watch all the lectures you watched once when you were half-asleep. Now that the test is over, you have a TON of lectures to make up (the ones you skipped), but now you have another exam the following Monday. And it's basically an endless cycle.

Imagine if attendance wasn't mandatory, if they made online quizzes in place of clickers and you could spend your day just watching lectures without sitting in class. Imagine how much time you'd save. I think THAT is the reason why students feel they do not know the material. I'm not saying all, but a lot of students (including myself last year) definitely felt that they were just playing catch and release, rather than building a foundation of medical knowledge that they could add to.

My uniformed opinion and intuition tells me that this exactly the problem. I have strong doubts that there's any serious problem with the curriculum itself. I disagree with the idea that we have some serious testing or teaching deficiency compared to other DO schools. Our exams are not easy. They do test a little bit of pointless minutae but that's very minor. Our exams feature plenty of clinical reasoning and lots of students are getting their asses kicked, even the ones with 30+ MCATs.

Really, IMO it comes down to the simple formula of attendance policy + flipped classroom + a bunch of students who had high MCATs/low GPAs = serious problem with time management and test chasing, and relatively poor absorption of the information.

 

[doczebra]

I honestly think it comes down to Touro students not having the time to really sit with the material. You have class from 9AM-5PM - assuming you take time to commute/grab something to eat for dinner, you hypothetically start watching lectures at 6PM. If you have 4 lectures that night, that equates to probably a little over 4 hours (although this is all assuming that you are watching them on 1.75x speed, since lectures generally range from 1 hour to 1 hour 45 mins). By the second or third lecture, you find it very difficult to concentrate since you've basically been studying for the past 10 hours. You power through the lectures half-a**ed just for the sake of watching them so that you have a glimpse of what's going on the next day in clickers.

In clickers, you are given a short amount of time to answer the question so you "control + f" for the sake of getting the question right. You may end class earlier that day, but you have another 3 - 4 lectures waiting for you at home.

Now imagine this, except trying to study for a test that upcoming Monday - on top of all the lectures you already need to watch. The most reasonable thing would be to skip the weeks lectures and try to do well on the exam, right? Clicker grades are only 10% but exams are worth a lot more. You cram and re-watch all the lectures you watched once when you were half-asleep. Now that the test is over, you have a TON of lectures to make up (the ones you skipped), but now you have another exam the following Monday. And it's basically an endless cycle.

Imagine if attendance wasn't mandatory, if they made online quizzes in place of clickers and you could spend your day just watching lectures without sitting in class. Imagine how much time you'd save. I think THAT is the reason why students feel they do not know the material. I'm not saying all, but a lot of students (including myself last year) definitely felt that they were just playing catch and release, rather than building a foundation of medical knowledge that they could add to.

100% concur. Best thing one can do is attend classes in first year and get those A's in ms-1. If your transcript is straight B/C's for two years, it looks bad.

But you absolutely have to start skipping in ms-2. If you want to break 260, you have to suck it up and accept that Touro's ridiculous attendance-based grading will punish you and land you a 2.5 gpa. If I had both years free, I know I would've done even better that 260. I'll forever hate the school for screwing me like that. You're basically left with:

-do okay in class, do okay on the boards
or
-do bad in class, do well on the boards. Get screwed anyways b/c competitive residencies will require high grades and class rank anyways.

And the worst part is it's all because one idiot in the administration decided to make attendance graded. Their ******* causes you to essentially miss the specialty you want and end up doing something not as interesting for the rest of your frikkin life.

 

[kkosp2451]

My uniformed opinion and intuition tells me that this exactly the problem. I have strong doubts that there's any serious problem with the curriculum itself. I disagree with the idea that we have some serious testing or teaching deficiency compared to other DO schools. Our exams are not easy. They do test a little bit of pointless minutae but that's very minor. Our exams feature plenty of clinical reasoning and lots of students are getting their asses kicked, even the ones with 30+ MCATs.

Really, IMO it comes down to the simple formula of attendance policy + flipped classroom + a bunch of students who had high MCATs/low GPAs = serious problem with time management and test chasing, and relatively poor absorption of the information.

I agree, I don't think that Touro itself has an issue with it's curriculum or exams. Although like you said, there tends to be some small details asked here and there. The biggest problem is the fact that students spend so much time watching lectures and sitting in class that they are rushing through the material (and rightfully so, because the schedule is way too packed).

I honestly never really understood why they'd implement the mandatory attendance on top of the at home lectures.

 

[doczebra]

I agree, I don't think that Touro itself has an issue with it's curriculum or exams. Although like you said, there tends to be some small details asked here and there. The biggest problem is the fact that students spend so much time watching lectures and sitting in class that they are rushing through the material (and rightfully so, because the schedule is way too packed).

I honestly never really understood why they'd implement the mandatory attendance on top of the at home lectures.

It's the deans and curriculum committee. The profs that are nice to your face are the same ones screwing you by shutting down any suggestions to remove clicker grades at meetings with SGA. There is literally just one faculty member that sided with the students. Every single other prof and faculty said absolutely not.

We tried for two years, by the end we were begging to just reduce the weight of clicker in the very last semester before step 1. NOPE, they shut that idea down without hesitance too.

I know they actually added even extra classes for you lower years. I heard they changed your osce class into a way bigger and longer mess now. And that sucks since it's of those "miss 3, you fail" classes. And Med Sim was an elective. It's mandatory for all now. There go your fridays as well every other week.

 

[T-ara]

Yes. It's already known that they have administrative issues and other issues like poor curriculum and COA would give me pause about attending rather than a one-off over enrollment. Over enrollment has even happened to MD schools in the past.

 

[DameJulie]

I still have not received any communication from Touro-NY since I submitted my app there for a few weeks ago. Do they utilize silent rejections?

 

[Peach Newport]

100% concur. Best thing one can do is attend classes in first year and get those A's in ms-1. If your transcript is straight B/C's for two years, it looks bad.

But you absolutely have to start skipping in ms-2. If you want to break 260, you have to suck it up and accept that Touro's ridiculous attendance-based grading will punish you and land you a 2.5 gpa. If I had both years free, I know I would've done even better that 260. I'll forever hate the school for screwing me like that. You're basically left with:

-do okay in class, do okay on the boards
or
-do bad in class, do well on the boards. Get screwed anyways b/c competitive residencies will require high grades and class rank anyways.

And the worst part is it's all because one idiot in the administration decided to make attendance graded. Their ******* causes you to essentially miss the specialty you want and end up doing something not as interesting for the rest of your frikkin life.

Dude what specialties require you to score over a 260, even as a DO? I would guess that most programs that would require a DO have such a high score would just find another reason not to take a DO.

Also... you're saying that if you always go to class... You just won't score 260? That seems like an absurdly high goal. I mean, I guess if you absolutely have your heart set on an ACGME Derm or Ortho it might help... I thought you meant something like "you need to skip class to break 220."

 

[doczebra]

Dude what specialties require you to score over a 260, even as a DO? I would guess that most programs that would require a DO have such a high score would just find another reason not to take a DO.

Also... you're saying that if you always go to class... You just won't score 260? That seems like an absurdly high goal. I mean, I guess if you absolutely have your heart set on an ACGME Derm or Ortho it might help... I thought you meant something like "you need to skip class to break 220."

Dermatology and it nothing like that. I looked for the least competitive derm program that's taken DOs and IMGs. Their simple answer to my email was 250 cut-off with 260 being the average for the ranked applicants. That's the least competitive program in the north east that's open to DOs. I didnt get anything back but a generic useless email from Mayo and Rutgers. Those have taken DOs and they're even more competitive than this community program I contacted.

And tbh, given that a huge portion of the class got cold feet and are planning to take usmle "sometime in november" and the general poor performance for those who did take it, I'll confidently say that the average student out of touro will get <225. The top of the class students capped out at 240.

 

[genericscreenname]

Yes. It's already known that they have administrative issues and other issues like poor curriculum and COA would give me pause about attending rather than a one-off over enrollment. Over enrollment has even happened to MD schools in the past.

Totally agree. Those issues would make me hesitate applying there far more than a one-time enrollment fiasco.

 

[lnguyen1412]

is it just for Touro NY or Touro NV and Touro CA is the same? I don't hate the mandatory attendance, I just hate if I attended class then have to watch another set of lectures after that... that's exhausting.

 

[doczebra]

Totally agree. Those issues would make me hesitate applying there far more than a one-time enrollment fiasco.

The school is officially on probation now. COCA FINALLY took notice.

Nobody sane would attend the DO school with the highest entering stats, yet the school holds back 25% of the class from writing comlex 1 and has a 20% fail rate on comlex two.

Saddest part is that ~50% of the students have an SMP from other schools like Drexel/Boston U/Touro where they've had the privilege of getting 3 years to study basic sciences for usmle/comlex 1, instead of having two years like the majority of students at other schools.

 

[throwaway948738]

The school is officially on probation now. COCA FINALLY took notice.

Nobody sane would attend the DO school with the highest entering stats, yet the school holds back 25% of the class from writing comlex 1 and has a 20% fail rate on comlex two.

Saddest part is that ~50% of the students have an SMP from other schools like Drexel/Boston U/Touro where they've had the privilege of getting 3 years to study basic sciences for usmle/comlex 1, instead of having two years like the majority of students at other schools.

Is this true?

 

[Peach Newport]

Is this true?

Yes. Touro NY is on probation. Although I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the curriculum/boards and everything to do with them enrolling 154 students in a school accredited for 135.

 

[VolibearMain]

Im someone who didnt get into DO schools with decent stats for a mid-lower tier DO school. After reading about this nightmare, No, I wouldnt.

 

[genericscreenname]

The school is officially on probation now. COCA FINALLY took notice.

Nobody sane would attend the DO school with the highest entering stats, yet the school holds back 25% of the class from writing comlex 1 and has a 20% fail rate on comlex two.

Saddest part is that ~50% of the students have an SMP from other schools like Drexel/Boston U/Touro where they've had the privilege of getting 3 years to study basic sciences for usmle/comlex 1, instead of having two years like the majority of students at other schools.

I never thought people saying "the best med school is the one that accepts you" or "every school in the states will give you a great education" was ever helpful. Schools have differences. You guys work so hard to get accepted. I think people deserve to know if some schools have weaknesses and aren't up to par, and would encourage students from schools to give feedback to help others. Thank you for sharing. Was there an official statement on why they were put on probation?

 

[doczebra]

I never thought people saying "the best med school is the one that accepts you" or "every school in the states will give you a great education" was ever helpful. Schools have differences. You guys work so hard to get accepted. I think people deserve to know if some schools have weaknesses and aren't up to par, and would encourage students from schools to give feedback to help others. Thank you for sharing. Was there an official statement on why they were put on probation?

More details are trickling in. Apparently the overacceptance triggered it, but COCA is putting extra demands on Touro from student complaints they've received.

 

[tux4]

I honestly think it comes down to Touro students not having the time to really sit with the material. You have class from 9AM-5PM - assuming you take time to commute/grab something to eat for dinner, you hypothetically start watching lectures at 6PM. If you have 4 lectures that night, that equates to probably a little over 4 hours (although this is all assuming that you are watching them on 1.75x speed, since lectures generally range from 1 hour to 1 hour 45 mins). By the second or third lecture, you find it very difficult to concentrate since you've basically been studying for the past 10 hours. You power through the lectures half-a**ed just for the sake of watching them so that you have a glimpse of what's going on the next day in clickers.

In clickers, you are given a short amount of time to answer the question so you "control + f" for the sake of getting the question right. You may end class earlier that day, but you have another 3 - 4 lectures waiting for you at home.

Now imagine this, except trying to study for a test that upcoming Monday - on top of all the lectures you already need to watch. The most reasonable thing would be to skip the weeks lectures and try to do well on the exam, right? Clicker grades are only 10% but exams are worth a lot more. You cram and re-watch all the lectures you watched once when you were half-asleep. Now that the test is over, you have a TON of lectures to make up (the ones you skipped), but now you have another exam the following Monday. And it's basically an endless cycle.

Imagine if attendance wasn't mandatory, if they made online quizzes in place of clickers and you could spend your day just watching lectures without sitting in class. Imagine how much time you'd save. I think THAT is the reason why students feel they do not know the material. I'm not saying all, but a lot of students (including myself last year) definitely felt that they were just playing catch and release, rather than building a foundation of medical knowledge that they could add to.

The video lectures are a huge waste of time with some few notable exceptions. They also aren't meant to be watched over and over which is what a lot of the students do. It is just nonstop passive learning.

Also if you feel like you are behind, missing clicker sessions is completely worth it to solidify the material because they really mean nothing unless you are failing a course. Many the students obsess over pre-clinical grades when they mean absolutely nothing for residency. Literally the bottom of the list of importance. Just don't fail.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

Touro has sent out the probation letter to students. It's not pretty

 

[throwaway948738]

.

 

[Goro]

Can you share? PM if needed. And is this letter from Administration? Or from SGA? I've already seen the latter.

Touro has sent out the probation letter to students. It's not pretty

 

[doczebra]

The video lectures are a huge waste of time with some few notable exceptions. They also aren't meant to be watched over and over which is what a lot of the students do. It is just nonstop passive learning.

Also if you feel like you are behind, missing clicker sessions is completely worth it to solidify the material because they really mean nothing unless you are failing a course. Many the students obsess over pre-clinical grades when they mean absolutely nothing for residency. Literally the bottom of the list of importance. Just don't fail.


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That's pretty clueless. If your preclinical grades arent a mix of As and Bs, your application will be thrown straight into the trash for Ortho/GS/Derm/Ophtho.

If you want family medicine/IM, you can get straight Cs and get a 200 on step 1 and still be fine.

Why is it that DO schools with 25 mcat average can still place students into great acgme residencies while touro with the 30 mcat average manages none.

 

[Romeo117]

That's pretty clueless. If your preclinical grades arent a mix of As and Bs, your application will be thrown straight into the trash for Ortho/GS/Derm/Ophtho.

If you want family medicine/IM, you can get straight Cs and get a 200 on step 1 and still be fine.

Why is it that DO schools with 25 mcat average can still place students into great acgme residencies while touro with the 30 mcat average manages none.

Since you go to Touro I'm assuming you looked at the match list that came out the past 2 years...oh wait, clearly you didn't. Let me refresh your memory sweetheart. We have people who matched into Cleveland clinic, Emory, Vanderbuilt, Icahn, Thomas Jefferson, Mount Sinai, University of Chicago, Rush, Rutgers, UCSF, Henry Ford, and more.

Please start getting your facts straight if you keep planning to criticize a program that you seem to hate so much.

 

[doczebra]

Since you go to Touro I'm assuming you looked at the match list that came out the past 2 years...oh wait, clearly you didn't. Let me refresh your memory sweetheart. We have people who matched into Cleveland clinic, Emory, Vanderbuilt, Icahn, Thomas Jefferson, Mount Sinai, University of Chicago, Rush, Rutgers, UCSF, Henry Ford, and more.

Please start getting your facts straight if you keep planning to criticize a program that you seem to hate so much.

FFS, are you an ms-3/ms-4? Because you're clueless at reading match lists.

-None of those matches were at a competitive specialty. DO's match Harvard MGH family medicine and psych. Touro still cant even place into that.

-More than half of those are at satellite campuses. UCSF-frenso, Mt Sinai- St luke. UChicago-northwell are horrible programs. They are >80% IMG filled.

-The only decent match, Rutger's dermatology, is a small program and they have 3 IMGs and 1 DO...

-UTMB Ortho was the one decent match out of 10 years' worth of matches and that's a low tier ortho.

Go look at LECOM/NSU/etc. They manage to place multiple into Mayo/Cleveland clinic/etc surgery/anesthesiology.

 

[dorster]

.

 

[Peach Newport]

FFS, are you an ms-3/ms-4? Because you're clueless at reading match lists.

-None of those matches were at a competitive specialty. DO's match Harvard MGH family medicine and psych. Touro still cant even place into that.

-More than half of those are at satellite campuses. UCSF-frenso, Mt Sinai- St luke. UChicago-northwell are horrible programs. They are >80% IMG filled.

-The only decent match, Rutger's dermatology, is a small program and they have 3 IMGs and 1 DO...

-UTMB Ortho was the one decent match out of 10 years' worth of matches and that's a low tier ortho.

Go look at LECOM/NSU/etc. They manage to place multiple into Mayo/Cleveland clinic/etc surgery/anesthesiology.

Woah. Hold the phone.

Where are you getting the idea that UCSF-Fresno, Chicago Northshore, and St Luke's are "horrible programs?"

Wouldn't a more accurate assessment be "solid ACGME residency programs that just aren't quite as competitive as UCSF, UChicago, and IcahnSOM?"

 

[doczebra]

If you had any idea how the residency applications process worked you would realize that it's more individualistic than you think. If you have the board scores, grades, letters and do well on the clinical years it matters very very little what DO school you went to. At the end of the day to ACGME programs a DO school is a DO school. And touros match list has always been impressive. What makes you think all these students are trying for derm and ortho and not getting in? It's self selective. Students match into the specialties they apply for and just because you seem interested in derm doesn't mean everyone at Touro is.

****, I dunno. It might have been that the derm club has 5 officers and the ortho club had 5-6 students run for president.

Also, a DO is a DO. The point is that Touro does terribly on the boards and LECOM comes and crushes us.

 

[doczebra]

Woah. Hold the phone.

Where are you getting the idea that UCSF-Fresno, Chicago Northshore, and St Luke's are "horrible programs?"

Wouldn't a more accurate assessment be "solid ACGME residency programs that just aren't quite as competitive as UCSF, UChicago, and IcahnSOM?"

They're absolute ****. Go to their resident roster, it's majority carribean IMGs.

Go ask the IM forum about their ranking of those programs. They're the lowest of the low. I cant believe you guys wanted to brag about those just a few minutes ago.

 

[dorster]

.

 

[dorster]

.

 

[doczebra]

Where do you get your facts from I'd like to know? Seems like you pull them out of no where. Touro does extremely well on boards our averages are higher than most schools for comlex and usmle averages are never released. maybe you should spend more time studying and less time harassing people on these sites

You do realize that the admin in passing bragged about the comlex being 514... And go ask the SGA how many students havent written comlex 1 yet since the school is blocking them.

And when things dont go your way you resort to ignoring it?

Here's the derm club for ya. 5 officers, 1 match in multiple years,
http://tourocom.touro.edu/student-l...sos/dermatology-student-organization-derm.php

And if you're gonna say that 5+ people weren't running for ortho president, you're just a big ass liar.