Would you drop craniosacral therapy from curricula, boards, both, neither?

[homeboy]

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Given the opportunity, would you remove craniosacral therapy from curricula of colleges of osteopathic medicine, from osteopathic licensing examinations, both or neither?

 

[the1doc]

Given the opportunity, would you remove craniosacral therapy from curricula of colleges of osteopathic medicine, from osteopathic licensing examinations, both or neither?

the curricula, the exams, and the earth.

then we could go back to the old assumption that genetics, not the "inherent mobility of cranial bones" causes wide heads in some people and skinny heads in others....

 

[OSUdoc08]

Given the opportunity, would you remove craniosacral therapy from curricula of colleges of osteopathic medicine, from osteopathic licensing examinations, both or neither?

Why?

 

[the1doc]

Why?

Why not?

 

[OSUdoc08]

the curricula, the exams, and the earth.

then we could go back to the old assumption that genetics, not the "inherent mobility of cranial bones" causes wide heads in some people and skinny heads in others....

Why, because you can't feel the cranial rhythm? Maybe you just don't have the skills!

 

[the1doc]

Why, because you can't feel the cranial rhythm? Maybe you just don't have the skills!

or the imagination

 

[OSUdoc08]

or the imagination

I guess the MD pediatrician in town who treats kids using craniosacral and successfully relieves their symptoms is just using her imagination, right?

 

[DragonWell]

Would you drop craniosacral therapy from curricula, boards, both, neither?

Bit of a leading question, eh?

 

[the1doc]

I guess the MD pediatrician in town who treats kids using craniosacral and successfully relieves their symptoms is just using her imagination, right?

that's right. and the kid's.

 

[OSUdoc08]

that's right. and the kid's.

Perhaps you should have gone to an MD school.

If you believe that myofascial and ballotment techniques work, then you surely should believe that craniosacral works. It doesn't matter if you believe it or not, because it actually does. The whole system isn't going to survive based on your "belief."

 

[Taus]

what about the stuff for TMJ, otitis, sinus drainage, etc? Do you consider these things when you talk about all cranial being bull?

 

[OSUdoc08]

what about the stuff for TMJ, otitis, sinus drainage, etc? Do you consider these things when you talk about all cranial being bull?

From the posts he made in all of the other DO forums, it seems as though it wouldn't matter. He would have been much happier at an MD school.

 

[Taus]

From the posts he made in all of the other DO forums, it seems as though it wouldn't matter. He would have been much happier at an MD school.

agreed....I know some of what I learn in OMM is not stuff that I will be using, but many people fail to be able to separate what they like/find useful from the other parts....and then label it all cr*p because of the few parts they don't like or agree with.

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

I occassionally "felt the rhythm" in cranial and I'm still an extreme skeptic.

Why do we learn how to diagnose all these different strain patterns if we aren't even gonna learn how to fix them?

CV4 is not the godsend technique it is touted to. In order for CV4 to "bathe the body in the nourishing potency of the CSF" as we were told it did, you'd have to have a leak in your Blood-brain-barrier which is not good if you haven't covered that already in your classes.

So either CV4 is crap or the blood-brain-barrier is crap. There's a ton of research and documentation backing one and 5 people who believe the other. I'll put my money on the CSF.

As far as Cranial actually working, do a blinded study where one set of patients has cranial performed on them and the other has some random person in a white coat massage and play with their head a bit. Then at the end see who got better results.

It would be a very simple study to do, but no one wants to do it. Why? Because there's a risk it might prove what so many DO's and DO students already believe.


Cut the "why did you go to a DO school if you don't believe in OMT/cranial/AT Still's telekinetic powers form the grave/Ballotment" crap.

Want to know the reason I went to a DO school? Because it was closer to where my then fiancee was going to school than the MD schools I was accepted at.

 

[the1doc]

agreed....I know some of what I learn in OMM is not stuff that I will be using, but many people fail to be able to separate what they like/find useful from the other parts....and then label it all cr*p because of the few parts they don't like or agree with.

find one quote from me that says "all of omt is 'cr*ap' "
you won't because that's not what i believe.
actually, "cr!p was closer to what i had in mind for cranial, but I think some of omt is very useful.

 

[Taus]

find one quote from me that says "all of omt is 'cr*ap' "
you won't because that's not what i believe.
actually, "cr!p was closer to what i had in mind for cranial, but I think some of omt is very useful.

gotcha....I'm not saying that you did...I just got the impression that you were saying "all of DO education is shiit b/c I don't like cranial"...I apologize

 

[homeboy]

Why, because you can't feel the cranial rhythm? Maybe you just don't have the skills!

Spoken like a true snake-oil salesman...
Ok, I've said this once and I'll say it a thousand more times: there is scientific data supporting the notion of a PRM, but the ability to detect it manually and on a consistent basis is absolutely zero, as is its proven diagnostic or therapeutic value.
I'm sick and tired of hearing the ad nauseum response, "you should have gone to MD school." (smart-ass tone emphasized). I'm not going to sit down and take this crap from people who swallow everything that is spoon fed to them, pointing their self-righteous finger at me as if I'm some blasphemous non-believer.
I’m not “ashamed” to be a DO, but I am critical of several aspects I feel are perfectly acceptable targets of legitimate critique and concern. Maybe you are perfectly happy with the way things are, but I’m not, and neither is a great majority of the profession. Contentment breeds complacency, contention breeds progress.

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

People need to learn to separate DO education from OMM.

I feel the education I'm getting at DMU is overall a good education. I'll find out just how good when I take Step 1 boards next friday, but thats more a function of personal preparation than education in my opinion anyway.

Also, being at DMU we have/had until yesterday one of the best OMM departments in the nation at least based on being #1 in OMM board scores the past 2 years straight and 3 out of 5 I believe.

I don't think the education is crap at all, I think some of the theories (cranial) are crap especially when they've never been proven to work.

I guess having a lecturer show pictures of dead SIDS babies with their skull caps removed and pencils in their ears to show their "strain pattern" will do that to you though. I still can't get those images out of my head and it was 3 months ago.

 

[docbill]

who are we going to team up on today... hmmmmm

Just because someone does believe in something, you don't have to jump on them and say.. oooohhh you should of went to MD school!!

There are physicians, who are MDs that don't agree with other physicians treatments (MDs or DOs). There are those who don't believe in chelation(sp) therapy.. .there are those who don't like to perscribe some type of drugs.
Should they have went to NP school?

Knock it off and act ethically and correct.

 

[the1doc]

Spoken like a true snake-oil salesman...
Ok, I've said this once and I'll say it a thousand more times: there is scientific data supporting the notion of a PRM, but the ability to detect it manually and on a consistent basis is absolutely zero, as is its proven diagnostic or therapeutic value.
I'm sick and tired of hearing the ad nauseum response, "you should have gone to MD school." (smart-ass tone emphasized). I'm not going to sit down and take this crap from people who swallow everything that is spoon fed to them, pointing their self-righteous finger at me as if I'm some blasphemous non-believer.
I’m not “ashamed” to be a DO, but I am critical of several aspects I feel are perfectly acceptable targets of legitimate critique and concern. Maybe you are perfectly happy with the way things are, but I’m not, and neither is a great majority of the profession. Contentment breeds complacency, contention breeds progress.

thank you. I feel the same way. Last time I checked, I didn't sign up for a cult when I signed up for DO school. I can still think for myself without getting kicked out of the DO school and placed on probation at an MD school, right?

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

You can, but the OMM departments would rather you didn't. Thinking for yourself interferes with the mind washing... I mean the teaching of cranial.

 

[OSUdoc08]

You can, but the OMM departments would rather you didn't. Thinking for yourself interferes with the mind washing... I mean the teaching of cranial.

What do you think about myofascial and balottment?

How can you refute craniosacral, but accept these?

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

What do you think about myofascial and balottment?

How can you refute craniosacral, but accept these?

I don't believe in MFR and it depends on your definition of Ballottement. You must not be a real big supporter of it if you can't even spell it right.

Myofascial: put your hands on the tissues and take them where they want to go. Where do they want to go? They'll show you just take them there.
What am I a freaking taxi service for the fascia?
It sounds like I'm a boy scout taking an old Granny across the street. Even if I did believe in it, I wouldn't feel right billing for it. What do you put on the bill? "The patients tissues wanted to go right then counterclockwise, so I took them there."

Ballottement's dictionary definition is "a palpatory technique for detecting or examining a floating object in the body." If you mean doing a bimanual exam of the uterus, or pushing up on the patients back attempting to feel a kidney, yes I fully believe in these. I fail to see what doing a bimanual exam on a uterus has to do with cranial unless the uterus is gravid in which case you can't do CV4 [sarc].

 

[OSUdoc08]

I don't believe in MFR and it depends on your definition of Ballottement. You must not be a real big supporter of it if you can't even spell it right.

Myofascial: put your hands on the tissues and take them where they want to go. Where do they want to go? They'll show you just take them there.
What am I a freaking taxi service for the fascia?
It sounds like I'm a boy scout taking an old Granny across the street. Even if I did believe in it, I wouldn't feel right billing for it. What do you put on the bill? "The patients tissues wanted to go right then counterclockwise, so I took them there."

Ballottement's dictionary definition is "a palpatory technique for detecting or examining a floating object in the body." If you mean doing a bimanual exam of the uterus, or pushing up on the patients back attempting to feel a kidney, yes I fully believe in these. I fail to see what doing a bimanual exam on a uterus has to do with cranial unless the uterus is gravid in which case you can't do CV4 [sarc].

Good. It seems as though the focus is on "bashing" craniosacral. Why the special attention? Why not bash the other techniques as well and give them all equal treatment?

I don't think psychiatry works or is a real specialty. Maybe I'll start bashing them as well, since I don't "see" visible results.

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

Good. It seems as though the focus is on "bashing" craniosacral. Why the special attention? Why not bash the other techniques as well and give them all equal treatment?

I don't think psychiatry works or is a real specialty. Maybe I'll start bashing them as well, since I don't "see" visible results.

The cranial bashing is because it is taught as it's own separate entity. We don't cover ballottement here. Cranial is an easy target because it is so ridiculous, we aren't even forced to learn how to diagnose it let alone treat it. What is the point of learning an OMM technique/area if you don't know how to diagnose it and even if you do get a diagnosis you don't know how to treat it?

Also, not other area of OMM claims to move bones that are fused together. They must move since sutures imply mobility.
Does this mean that when someone fractures their humerus and the bone "sutures" itself back together that their humerus now gains mobility relative to itself?


Go ahead and bash psych all you want, but know that psych has something going for it OMM doesn't, RESEARCH PROOF THAT IT WORKS!

 

[OSUdoc08]

The cranial bashing is because it is taught as it's own separate entity. We don't cover ballottement here. Cranial is an easy target because it is so ridiculous, we aren't even forced to learn how to diagnose it let alone treat it. What is the point of learning an OMM technique/area if you don't know how to diagnose it and even if you do get a diagnosis you don't know how to treat it?

Also, not other area of OMM claims to move bones that are fused together. They must move since sutures imply mobility.
Does this mean that when someone fractures their humerus and the bone "sutures" itself back together that their humerus now gains mobility relative to itself?


Go ahead and bash psych all you want, but know that psych has something going for it OMM doesn't, RESEARCH PROOF THAT IT WORKS!

Your argument is flawed, since as you know cranial is most effective on children with unfused cranial bones.

Is myofascial not taught as a seperate entity at your school? It is at ours.

P.S. You've obviously never read the JAOA. There is new research in every issue.

 

[medhacker]

From the posts he made in all of the other DO forums, it seems as though it wouldn't matter. He would have been much happier at an MD school.

true dat!

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

Let me also say this, if you love cranial and you think it works, great for you, go ahead and learn it, but don't force the masses to learn it.

Offer it as a summer elective for the OMM elite and those who are interested in it. That way if people want to learn it, they can, but those of us who have no interest in it don't have to.

Someday when/if there is ever concrete evidence to support cranial and it's claims, then you can justify force feeding it to the masses, but not until then.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Let me also say this, if you love cranial and you think it works, great for you, go ahead and learn it, but don't force the masses to learn it.

Offer it as a summer elective for the OMM elite and those who are interested in it. That way if people want to learn it, they can, but those of us who have no interest in it don't have to.

Someday when/if there is ever concrete evidence to support cranial and it's claims, then you can justify force feeding it to the masses, but not until then.

Why learn any other method of OMM?

Why myofascial?

Why ballottement?

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

Your argument is flawed, since as you know cranial is most effective on children with unfused cranial bones.

Is myofascial not taught as a seperate entity at your school? It is at ours.

P.S. You've obviously never read the JAOA. There is new research in every issue.

There was research back in the day that said Thalidomide was safe for pregnant women. I'm not talking little studies of 40-50 cases, I want meta-analysis level proof just like every other aspect of medicine REQUIRES before it is taught.

We never learned cranial was more effective in kids, we were taught it works equally well on all persons.

Like I said, if you want to do cranial, knock yourself out, but don't try to force feed it to me as the greatest thing for ADHD since Ritalin.

You've never addressed the question of why put something on a board exam that 85%+ by even the most conservative of estimates of DO's never do.

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

Why learn any other method of OMM?

Why myofascial?

Why ballottement?

Good question. We never learned ballottement outside of Gyn and Physical Diagnosis labs.

If you look at the unscientific poll at the top of the page, my views are getting more support than yours to the tune of approx. a 4:1 ratio and these are more than likely all DO's or DO students. Hard to preach when the choir doesn't believe in the minister's message.

 

[DrMnemonic]

What is happening here is pretty much what I predicted on the other thread.

There ARE a few things that historically fall under the 'cranial' umbrella that have NOTHING to do with the PRM, RTM, SBS... and the proponents of 'cranial' are wise to seize on these non PRM things and use them as support for cranial.

However, the burden is on BOTH sides to define exactly what is meant by the term 'cranial' and so far, it seems that the anti-cranial crowd is pretty adept at stating it is the things associated with the PRM that are in question and not some of the other 'cranial' techniques like venous sinus and TMJ Tx.

I can ask only ONE thing of the people that are in support of diagnosis and treatment of the PRM, RTM, SBS. Design a randomly controlled clinical trial (RCT) and publish the results.

If you cannot, diagnosis and treatment based on PRM, RTM and SBS have to go. It is as simple as that.

I know that we live in a healthcare consumer environment that is looking for alternatives to allopathic medicine. I also KNOW that there are massage therapists and the like out there that claim to perform 'cranial' treatments and one of the selling points of DO's doing cranial is, "If we don't do it, they will."

That notwithstanding, we aren't about to start doing massage, accupuncture and cupping on people just because there are people that perform it and recipeints that 'claim' a benefit.

This is a case of EBM being on trial as much as the unsupportable aspects of 'cranial' Tx.

You have all heard of Evidence Based Medicine and I'm not going to insult anyone's intelligence revisiting it. You likely have heard of the business and health model called CQI (Continuous Quality Improvement) as well. How can we IMPROVE the quality outcomes of our patient care if the evidence for our treatment is, "I know a guy who knows a guy who says this is the ****!"

Sorry for the hyperbole, but really. Give me a GOOD RCT and I am in the cranial camp. Till then, it's like when my mom says that she can treat her diabetes by replacing cinamon rolls and cake with bread and potatoes. The evidence says otherwise.

 

[OSUdoc08]

There was research back in the day that said Thalidomide was safe for pregnant women. I'm not talking little studies of 40-50 cases, I want meta-analysis level proof just like every other aspect of medicine REQUIRES before it is taught.

We never learned cranial was more effective in kids, we were taught it works equally well on all persons.

Like I said, if you want to do cranial, knock yourself out, but don't try to force feed it to me as the greatest thing for ADHD since Ritalin.

You've never addressed the question of why put something on a board exam that 85%+ by even the most conservative of estimates of DO's never do.

Why put surgery on a board exam?

Far fewer DO's go into surgery than MD's.

Same concept.

 

[OSUdoc08]

duplicate post

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

duplicate post

Everybody sees surgery on rotations, so it's applicable to Step 1 because you're going to see it on rotations and it's applicable on Step II because everyone taking step II did a surgery rotation in the previous year.

Also, surgery isn't it's own portion of Step I like OMM is.




Dr. Mnemonic makes a very valid point about the lack of evidence.

In the mean time, OSUdoc08 keeps attempting to validify OMM and the survey results keep increasing the ratio of End cranial to keep it, approaching 5:1 now.

 

[Krazykritter]

OSU - Why do you consistently back the practice of OMM w/out reservation?? You act like you are a specialist heading into the field of OMM, yet on this site you have said many, many times that you are going into EM.

Just because some people don't believe that cranial is a valid technique, why brow beat them w/ it?? I could see it differently if you had been treating people but in all reality, you will probably never use cranial.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Everybody sees surgery on rotations, so it's applicable to Step 1 because you're going to see it on rotations and it's applicable on Step II because everyone taking step II did a surgery rotation in the previous year.

Also, surgery isn't it's own portion of Step I like OMM is.




Dr. Mnemonic makes a very valid point about the lack of evidence.

In the mean time, OSUdoc08 keeps attempting to validify OMM and the survey results keep increasing the ratio of End cranial to keep it, approaching 5:1 now.

We have a 1 month OMM rotation and a 1 month surgery rotation. I don't plan on using either. What's your point? Surgery is on Step II.

I'm sure your survey has great validity!

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

Good. It seems as though the focus is on "bashing"
I don't think psychiatry works or is a real specialty. Maybe I'll start bashing them as well, since I don't "see" visible results.

You're Tom Cruise, aren't you?

Your arguments make as much sense and have as much validity to them. I bet in your apartment you're jumping on your couch screaming at the top of your lungs how much you love cranial and don't care what the world thinks because you're in love.

Next you'll get cranial pregnant and you'll name the new theory the word that means "pickpocket" in some east asian language.

Then you'll go on TV criticing all other DO's and MD's for prescribing Lipitor to patients claiming we don't know the history of Cholesterol like you do.

Following this, you will write a book about Cranial that will flop because no one really even liked the first 2 books about cranial and society in general thinks you're a wack-o.

 

[OSUdoc08]

OSU - Why do you consistently back the practice of OMM w/out reservation?? You act like you are a specialist heading into the field of OMM, yet on this site you have said many, many times that you are going into EM.

Just because some people don't believe that cranial is a valid technique, why brow beat them w/ it?? I could see it differently if you had been treating people but in all reality, you will probably never use cranial.

I don't plan on using OMM. I know people that currently use it, and I have seen them use it effectively.

 

[OSUdoc08]

You're Tom Cruise, aren't you?

Your arguments make as much sense and have as much validity to them. I bet in your apartment you're jumping on your couch screaming at the top of your lungs how much you love cranial and don't care what the world thinks because you're in love.

Next you'll get cranial pregnant and you'll name the new theory the word that means "pickpocket" in some east asian language.

Then you'll go on TV criticing all other DO's and MD's for prescribing Lipitor to patients claiming we don't know the history of Cholesterol like you do.

Following this, you will write a book about Cranial that will flop because no one really even liked the first 2 books about cranial and society in general thinks you're a wack-o.

I don't "love" cranial. I can't even do it properly, and never plan on using it. I'm not even sure if it is even effective on adults.

You're obviously mistaken about me.

 

[Docgeorge]

We have a 1 month OMM rotation and a 1 month surgery rotation. I don't plan on using either. What's your point? Surgery is on Step II.

I'm sure your survey has great validity!

Do you not plan on seeing appendicitis or BRB PR in your ER? Howabout Cholecystitis AAA? Do you plan a career as an EM physican without ever putting in a chest tube?

If you dont understand the basic principle of surgery and when you need to call a surgical consult are you are going to make a piss poor ER physician.

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

I don't plan on using OMM. I know people that currently use it, and I have seen them use it effectively.

Then why the hell are you so insistent on everyone having to learn it and act like it's the greatest thing since antibiotics?

You are the largest hypocrite the world has ever seen, you bash people for not believing the dogma that is cranial then you say you can't even do it right and you're not gonna use it. 😱


If you're going into EM, you're gonna do a lot more surgery and surgery related procedures than you think, unless you're going to an ED that only treats somatic dysfunctions... wait you don't plan on doing those either.

If you're not going to use any surgical techniqes in your ER (which includes suturing, placing IVs, and debriding wounds) are you only going to take patients with complaints that you can fix using your prescription tablet?

 

[Krazykritter]

You're Tom Cruise, aren't you?

Your arguments make as much sense and have as much validity to them. I bet in your apartment you're jumping on your couch screaming at the top of your lungs how much you love cranial and don't care what the world thinks because you're in love.

Next you'll get cranial pregnant and you'll name the new theory the word that means "pickpocket" in some east asian language.

Then you'll go on TV criticing all other DO's and MD's for prescribing Lipitor to patients claiming we don't know the history of Cholesterol like you do.

Following this, you will write a book about Cranial that will flop because no one really even liked the first 2 books about cranial and society in general thinks you're a wack-o.

What a great post!!! 👍 Funniest thing I have read all night.

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

Do you not plan on seeing appendicitis or BRB PR in your ER? Howabout Cholecystitis AAA? Do you plan a career as an EM physican without ever putting in a chest tube?

If you dont understand the basic principle of surgery and when you need to call a surgical consult are you are going to make a piss poor ER physician.

George, let me correct that last sentence for you:

You dont understand the basic principle of surgery and you are going to make a piss poor ER physician.


This is based on the assumption that OSUDoc is as incompetent, hypocritical, underhanded, and dishonest in real life as he is on this forum.


Thanks Krazy, I aim to please.

 

[Docgeorge]

George, let me correct that last sentence for you:

You dont understand the basic principle of surgery and you are going to make a piss poor ER physician.


This is based on the assumption that OSUDoc is as incompetent, hypocritical, underhanded, and dishonest in real life as he is on this forum.

I was trying not to get into personal attacks...besides I'm an optomist.

Holy Cr@p, my spelling and grammer sucks! I'm off to bed.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Do you not plan on seeing appendicitis or BRB PR in your ER? Howabout Cholecystitis AAA? Do you plan a career as an EM physican without ever putting in a chest tube?

If you dont understand the basic principle of surgery and when you need to call a surgical consult are you are going to make a piss poor ER physician.

I agree. My knowledge of OMM will help me diagnose musculoskeletal injuries in the ER. It will also help me do a spinal tap more quickly than an MD student with no prior experience. These are just a few of the many examples.

In addition, if I see a patient that could be treated with merely OMM, I will turf to a physician that does OMM instead of injecting drugs or turfing to surgery.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Then why the hell are you so insistent on everyone having to learn it and act like it's the greatest thing since antibiotics?

You are the largest hypocrite the world has ever seen, you bash people for not believing the dogma that is cranial then you say you can't even do it right and you're not gonna use it. 😱


If you're going into EM, you're gonna do a lot more surgery and surgery related procedures than you think, unless you're going to an ED that only treats somatic dysfunctions... wait you don't plan on doing those either.

If you're not going to use any surgical techniqes in your ER (which includes suturing, placing IVs, and debriding wounds) are you only going to take patients with complaints that you can fix using your prescription tablet?

Just because I don't plan on doing a technique doesn't mean it doesn't work. You are taking the wrong approach with your attempt to argue with me.

 

[OSUdoc08]

George, let me correct that last sentence for you:

You dont understand the basic principle of surgery and you are going to make a piss poor ER physician.

This is based on the assumption that OSUDoc is as incompetent, hypocritical, underhanded, and dishonest in real life as he is on this forum.


Thanks Krazy, I aim to please.

On the other hand, I DO understand the basic principles of surgery.

Keep up the personal attacks. They really do well for you.

 

[Docgeorge]

I agree. My knowledge of OMM will help me diagnose musculoskeletal injuries in the ER. It will also help me do a spinal tap more quickly than an MD student with no prior experience. These are just a few of the many examples.

In addition, if I see a patient that could be treated with merely OMM, I will turf to a physician that does OMM instead of injecting drugs or turfing to surgery.

By the " I agree" statement are you saying that what I said was correct and you agree that if you dont know the basics of surgery that you will make a poor EM physician or that you agree that my gramer and spelling suck?

Listen if you think that you will have any more advantage then an MD sudent when it comes to your first spinal tap you are going to be sorely disapointed. We'll talk more about how much more adept you are in doing procedures vs MD students because of your OMM exposure once you actually start rotations.

You are going to find out quick what matters when it comes to diagnosing and treating patients is EBM. You wont be able to pull I can feel a chapmans point at point X so he must have Y. You are going to find out that attendings want references espically if you pull something out of your butt that is not in line with the standard of care.

Seriously if you go in with I'm better then attitude you cuz i have OMM you are going to slapped like a little b!tch.

 

[FutureNavyDOc]

I agree. My knowledge of OMM will help me diagnose musculoskeletal injuries in the ER. It will also help me do a spinal tap more quickly than an MD student with no prior experience. These are just a few of the many examples.

In addition, if I see a patient that could be treated with merely OMM, I will turf to a physician that does OMM instead of injecting drugs or turfing to surgery.

Yes, finding L4-L5 interspace is very difficult to do. You have prior experience performing spinal taps?

Why would you "turf" to a physician who does OMM when you could do it yourself? You're showing there is no point in learning it and contradicting yourself.

Just because I don't plan on doing a technique doesn't mean it doesn't work. You are taking the wrong approach with your attempt to argue with me.

When you're in an ER and a procedure needs to be done emergently, you don't have time nor the luxury of deferring all the hard work out.

I now realize that logic is the wrong approach to use when arguing with you. I will avoid it in the future.

On the other hand, I DO understand the basic principles of surgery.

Keep up the personal attacks. They really do well for you.

What better way to prove you know the principles of surgery than to be tested on it?

As far as personal attacks, if you would have read below the initial statement I put the following disclaimer:

This is based on the assumption that OSUDoc is as incompetent, hypocritical, underhanded, and dishonest in real life as he is on this forum.

I hope and pray that you are not any of these and that you will become a proficient and competent doctor.

I wasn't attacking you as much as the attitude and ego you display on these forums.
I think it is safe to say none of us are as argumentative in real life as we are on these forums, especially considering we've jumped through enough hoops to get to this point in our education!