Would you go to video med school?

[klmnop]

Provided its the only one you get into, would you go/have gone to a medical school that only offers courses via a live, classroom video feed?

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[Doctor246853]

Provided its the only one you get into, would you go/have gone to a medical school that only offers courses via a live, classroom video feed?

HEEELLLLL 2 Da NAWWW I dont want nething thats easier (maybe DO skool) I want to go thro the tradional trails and tribulations.

 

[FloatOn]

No thanks.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

No. What school does this, or this is a hypothetical?

 

[Longshanks]

HEEELLLLL 2 Da NAWWW I dont want nething thats easier (maybe DO skool) I want to go thro the tradional trails and tribulations.

Who says DO school is easier?

Might want to check your ego at the door. While your at it, explain what a trails and tribulations entails. Is that a challenging hiking trail?

 

[ThaliaNox]

I'm assuming this would be hypothetical, as it would be hard to have anatomy lab or physical exam type classes by video feed. This would also obviously have to be only preclinical years.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

If I couldn't get into medical school, bearing in mind that "D.O. school" is medical school, I'd definitely attend a distance learning program provided it resulted in the same licensure, etc. I want to be an efficacious doctor. The type of program doesn't mean anything to me.

 

[BiochemGuy]

Def wouldn't go.

 

[klmnop]

MSUCOM



Are there interactive distance learning classes with E. Lansing?
Courses in the first two years are structured in three different formats: courses that are mainly lecture-based; courses with a lab component and courses that utilize small discussion groups.
The lectures are synchronously delivered to each site “real-time” using high-definition teleconferencing technology. These broadcasts display both the speaker and his or her content slides – the same things a student sees at the site where the lecture physically takes place. These teleconferences are interactive and students in Southeast Michigan are seen by the speaker and able to ask questions during lectures. In addition, an on-site moderator is present during all teleconferences at DMC and MUC to assist students and to make sure the learning environment is optimal. A majority of lectures are presently broadcast from East Lansing to the DMC and the Macomb site; however, given the many clinical faculty in Southeast Michigan, it is expected that over time an increasing number of lectures will originate from DMC and Macomb and be telecast back to East Lansing.
Core courses requiring laboratory instruction (e.g. Gross Anatomy, Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine and Clinical Skills) are taught in specialized facilities at the Macomb and Detroit sites, using local faculty.
Small group format classes such as ethics and Doctor/Patient Relationships are also conducted in each Southeast Michigan site using local faculty.
Will lectures be the same as East Lansing?
Yes. All the lectures will be identical at all three sites. They are being delivered “real-time” at each site through high definition videoconferencing. As in the past, these lectures are also captured and available on-line for later review by students as Camtasia and Media Site Live recordings.
Will on-site faculty be of same quality?
Yes. Every new faculty member must be approved through the faculty credentialing process of the departments at MSUCOM. These MSUCOM faculty departments oversee the implementation of each course whether it is teleconferenced or presented locally. Since the on-site faculty are a part of the overall course faculty, they may present some of the lectures, serve as a resource for student help sessions and contribute exam questions as well.

 

[KTD]

I think Texas A&M does something like this too, only a little different. They have 2 campuses they use for the pre-clinicial years and, if I understand correctly, the lectures are pretty evenly split, meaning that whatever campus you are on, half your lectures are live and the other half are video-fed from the other campus. Someone at A&M could maybe comment how that is, but I think people generally like the school and don't think its a big deal.

 

[JoshUNCW]

As long we're talking about US medical school, that will give the same licensure and everything, yes. I see no reason why more independent study would prevent me from going to a specific school. I prefer independent study over class room study.

 

[mordounhas]

I just finished the pre-clinical years in the Independent Study Program at OSU (which is being eliminated in a few years), so I'd have to say that as long as it's credible school, why not?

 

[sustentacular]

Provided its the only one you get into, would you go/have gone to a medical school that only offers courses via a live, classroom video feed?

Only school I get into and grants a medical degree, sure I'd go.

 

[Hope0913]

nope, online courses just aren't for me

 

[eatinglightning]

Yes. And work my ass off to transfer to a more traditional one

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Provided its the only one you get into, would you go/have gone to a medical school that only offers courses via a live, classroom video feed?

fck no. i'm not going to be a second class citizen.

 

[klmnop]

I just finished the pre-clinical years in the Independent Study Program at OSU (which is being eliminated in a few years), so I'd have to say that as long as it's credible school, why not?

why's that

 

[fahimaz7]

Yup. I don't even watch the lectures anymore. I study the packets that are given, and sometimes listen to the audio of the lecture. Going to class is over rated.

 

[ThaliaNox]

I go to the MD school at MSU, so I do have some interaction with the DO students. The southeast michigan sites for the DO schools have their own anatomy labs, their own clinical classrooms and their own teachers on top of the normal professors. Lectures are also commonly broadcast FROM those locations to us in Lansing.

Besides, most students at MSU (either MD or DO) don't go to live lectures anyway. Lectures can be watched online almost immediately after the lecture at twice the speed from the comfort of your own couch.

 

[Perrotfish]

My class has just over 180 people, and the attendance at our live classes was always in the single digits unless the class was mandatory. Everyone either watched the recordings of the classes or (this was the majority) just relied entirely on outside resources and only intacted with school when absolutely forced to. The only time everyone got together was for first year anatomy lab, and honestly even that was a waste of time for me.

So, yeah, video lectures wouldn't be a huge culture shock.

 

[orthomyxo]

HEEELLLLL 2 Da NAWWW I dont want nething thats easier (maybe DO skool) I want to go thro the tradional trails and tribulations.

Nice grammar and spelling, bro!

I'm not usually a grammar nazi, but that is just plain annoying.

 

[OhioDoc]

I just finished the pre-clinical years in the Independent Study Program at OSU (which is being eliminated in a few years), so I'd have to say that as long as it's credible school, why not?

That's interesting - I didn't know the ISP program was being eliminated @ OSU.

 

[DoctwoB]

What's with everyone wanting a new, easy way out?

First there's 3 year programs popping up, and now online programs? Sure lectures can be online, but what about practicing physicals, patient histories, shadowing, rotations, anatomy labs, histo labs, PBL sessions, long term patient exposures, networking with future colleagues, etc. Some of those can be done over video chat, but its much less effective.

If all you had to do to be a doc was read the books, then anyone could sit for the steps and all you had to do was pass. Instead, you (rightly) have to attend an accredited institution and demonstrate competence both in the eyes of your school and in the eyes of the licensing agency. Don't dilute the MD any more than it already is.

Plus, with the rise of DNP online programs, if med school goes online then thats one less argument to use against them.

You really want to be a doctor, put in the work/time, like people have for years.

 

[BrownSweetness]

This isn't an online course. The students are present in a lecture hall watching a telecast from another campus. What's the problem with that? You can see and hear the lecture. How does this make them a second class citizen? [bleargh] ...and you wanna be a doctor?? WOW! So sad.

Edit: bleargh, Are you equating a discussion of URM issues to spreading herpes??

 

[ThaliaNox]

What's with everyone wanting a new, easy way out?

First there's 3 year programs popping up, and now online programs? Sure lectures can be online, but what about practicing physicals, patient histories, shadowing, rotations, anatomy labs, histo labs, PBL sessions, long term patient exposures, networking with future colleagues, etc. Some of those can be done over video chat, but its much less effective.


You really want to be a doctor, put in the work/time, like people have for years.

For the second time, the program referenced by the OP has only the pre-clinical basic science lectures video-linked. Everything else is in person, including all labs. At least get your facts right, as this was mentioned in the description later posted by the OP. I still wouldn't want to go to this program, but it is far from an "online med school."

 

[sustentacular]

What's with everyone wanting a new, easy way out?

First there's 3 year programs popping up, and now online programs? Sure lectures can be online, but what about practicing physicals, patient histories, shadowing, rotations, anatomy labs, histo labs, PBL sessions, long term patient exposures, networking with future colleagues, etc. Some of those can be done over video chat, but its much less effective.
.

Where are there 3 year programs?

 

[Frazier]

This isn't an online course. The students are present in a lecture hall watching a telecast from another campus. What's the problem with that? You can see and hear the lecture. How does this make them a second class citizen? [bleargh] ...and you wanna be a doctor?? WOW! So sad.

Edit: bleargh, Are you equating a discussion of URM issues to spreading herpes??

Don't be offended by bleargh. He's just an [...]
However, being an [...] isn't always a bad thing - as he often comes up with posts that make me lol.

On the other hand, his creativity cap must be in the laundry because he's sunk to posting the [easy way out] response of "cool story bro" quite often. He can be clever if he tries - I promise.

For everything else, there's facepalm.

 

[DoctwoB]

Where are there 3 year programs?

A new program at one of the texas schools that is a 3 year program for those going into family practice. It cuts out many other rotations and some science, and they have to go into FP.

I really don't like it for several reasons, 1. it locks people into a specialty when they'll probably change their minds at some point. 2. It makes FP docs second class doctors who didn't finish med school. 3. Even if a lot of med school could be cut out for FPs, I'd much rather have an FP with as broad an exposure as possible, 4. It gives the argument for "equivalence" for 3 year NP + DNP programs, even though that is total bull.

 

[klmnop]

Where are there 3 year programs?

McMaster's and UCalgary (the former of which is a great school)

 

[Perrotfish]

First there's 3 year programs popping up, and now online programs? Sure lectures can be online, but what about practicing physicals, patient histories, shadowing, rotations, anatomy labs, histo labs, PBL sessions, long term patient exposures, networking with future colleagues, etc. Some of those can be done over video chat, but its much less effective.

You will be amazed how completely and totally useless it is to do these things during the first two years of medical school. You will learn to hate all of these experiences, both because they are worthless unto themselves and because you will need the time to actually study. Honestly even rotations probably emphasize experiences too much over reading, but during the first two years the ONLY thing you need is time to study on your own and occasional exams to prove that you're learning. Anatomy lab is the only thing that you've listed that I've seen anyone find useful for those two years, and for me even that was a time waster.

 

[morning]

I'm hoping I don't have to go to class, if I get into medical school. Would certainly save time. Skipping class and streaming the lecture at 2x speed is definitely one of those SDN tricks I've got saved in my brain for future use.

 

[klmnop]

I go to the MD school at MSU, so I do have some interaction with the DO students. The southeast michigan sites for the DO schools have their own anatomy labs, their own clinical classrooms and their own teachers on top of the normal professors. Lectures are also commonly broadcast FROM those locations to us in Lansing.

Besides, most students at MSU (either MD or DO) don't go to live lectures anyway. Lectures can be watched online almost immediately after the lecture at twice the speed from the comfort of your own couch.

would love to hear more about your impressions

 

[MilkmanAl]

If by "go to video med school" you mean "pay my tuition and totally ignore everything the school sends my way until clinical years in favor of studying on my own," then yes, I would go to video med school. That's pretty much what I did anyway except with the excruciating annoyance of having to study certain things when someone else said I should (for tests) and having to show up for whatever required BS activity we had.

You will be amazed how completely and totally useless it is to do these things during the first two years of medical school. You will learn to hate all of these experiences, both because they are worthless unto themselves and because you will need the time to actually study. Honestly even rotations probably emphasize experiences too much over reading, but during the first two years the ONLY thing you need is time to study on your own and occasional exams to prove that you're learning. Anatomy lab is the only thing that you've listed that I've seen anyone find useful for those two years, and for me even that was a time waster.

I actually kind of enjoyed learning the physical exams, but almost everything else I was forced to do these last two years was an unforgivable waste of my time. Providing prosections would have literally cut my time in gross lab by 80% yet not affected my learning in the slightest. The clinical cases we had to sit through where they slowly reveal information about patients in an attempt to get you to think about what they had were just god-awful. It was either "This patient has a fever. What's the differential?" or "We're discussing a woman who smokes and is on birth control during the pulmonary unit. What's your differential?*" There was also the occasional "We're going to hold back this one indispensable yet completely revealing piece of information until the end" technique. You didn't think it was a good plan to show us that patient with bilateral pneumonia's cxr, huh? Cool.

*That's a pulmonary embolism slapping you in the face, for you pre-meds out there in Birdland.

 

[imorbust]

A new program at one of the texas schools that is a 3 year program for those going into family practice. It cuts out many other rotations and some science, and they have to go into FP.

Hmm. Good luck to those students on Step 1 if they're cutting out some preclinical science. Sure, many of those details won't be very helpful when it comes to FP practice, but Step 1 cares not about clinical practicality...and yes, students probably don't have to shoot for a 250 if they're locked into FP, but failing or getting a 190 isn't great regardless of specialty.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Then again, if you're limited to FP and presumably limited to training in rural Texas, do you really need to do that big of a Step 1 score?

 

[da8s0859q]

I think Texas A&M does something like this too, only a little different. They have 2 campuses they use for the pre-clinicial years and, if I understand correctly, the lectures are pretty evenly split, meaning that whatever campus you are on, half your lectures are live and the other half are video-fed from the other campus. Someone at A&M could maybe comment how that is, but I think people generally like the school and don't think its a big deal.

A&M does indeed. The lecture split is a little skewed at different times of MS-I and MS-II, but realistically, very few see that as a fault. A lot of people end up preferring it that way.

The feeling I get here on SDN is that at most med schools, the farther you get through the first two years, the more you feel like you don't need to watch lectures if you really would rather spend the time studying the class notes or whatever else. I certainly understand it.

 

[Perrotfish]

I actually kind of enjoyed learning the physical exams, but almost everything else I was forced to do these last two years was an unforgivable waste of my time. Providing prosections would have literally cut my time in gross lab by 80% yet not affected my learning in the slightest. The clinical cases we had to sit through where they slowly reveal information about patients in an attempt to get you to think about what they had were just god-awful. It was either "This patient has a fever. What's the differential?" or "We're discussing a woman who smokes and is on birth control during the pulmonary unit. What's your differential?*" There was also the occasional "We're going to hold back this one indispensable yet completely revealing piece of information until the end" technique. You didn't think it was a good plan to show us that patient with bilateral pneumonia's cxr, huh? Cool.
.

I didn't even like the physical exams. I mean, it was interesting, but we only did the exams once and we did them so long before we'd have any time/reason to practice them again that by the time we hit rotations we had basically forgotten everything. Maybe they could do a 2 week 'intro to clinical medicine' rotation where they teach us everything before 3rd year starts rather than just plunging us into rotations after we've forgotten everything and broken ourselves on step 1? In any event I didn't get a lot of value out of learning the exam through standardized patients that early.

 

[MilkmanAl]

It would've been totally useless if we didn't have to do a bunch of work with preceptors, I agree. Of course, the exams we don't practice and get comfortable with are the ones that suck the most to do. I can't wait to perform pelvic exams without knowing what the hell I'm doing.

 

[Bacchus]

Re: The Three Year Programs

There is LECOM and Texas Tech.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL5PNi9A6_w[/YOUTUBE]

 

[mordounhas]

A couple of people asked about the Independent Study Program at OSU- I'm not entirely sure why they're getting rid of it. They're planning on merging IP and ISP and integrating more clinical experience beginning at the start of Med 1. I'm not entirely sure what the logic is as in my experience you don't seem to learn a lot in clinic until you have an idea of what you should be looking for. They had a few meetings to explain the changes, but I couldn't make it as I had exams around then (and honestly, the changes don't affect me).

This is probably also somewhat motivated by the difficulties experienced with trying to integrate the CAPS capstone project into 2nd year (essentially a series of case presentations). They basically had to re-arrange the entire 2nd year schedule for ISP students this year because of it (we ended with Micro and Infectious Disease). Furthermore, it seems like the number of ISP students has been dropping recently. There weren't a lot in this year's M1 class.

OSU's always tinkering with things (they decided to switch from 14 weeks of gross to 10 sometime between my interview and the start of Med 1) and they may believe that it would be easier to change if there was only one pathway. Anyways, that's my best guess. I think the changes are at least a few years out.

 

[Everglide]

Without a doubt, yes. I would rather stay at home and watch lecture at 2x speed.

If you really need to be in the actual classroom for lecture - there will be times you have lecturers at your site that broadcast to the East Lansing site. Plus there's faculty in your hall when the lecturer isn't there..... assuming you go to class.

 

[FiremedicMike]

A couple of people asked about the Independent Study Program at OSU- I'm not entirely sure why they're getting rid of it. They're planning on merging IP and ISP and integrating more clinical experience beginning at the start of Med 1. I'm not entirely sure what the logic is as in my experience you don't seem to learn a lot in clinic until you have an idea of what you should be looking for. They had a few meetings to explain the changes, but I couldn't make it as I had exams around then (and honestly, the changes don't affect me).

This is probably also somewhat motivated by the difficulties experienced with trying to integrate the CAPS capstone project into 2nd year (essentially a series of case presentations). They basically had to re-arrange the entire 2nd year schedule for ISP students this year because of it (we ended with Micro and Infectious Disease). Furthermore, it seems like the number of ISP students has been dropping recently. There weren't a lot in this year's M1 class.

OSU's always tinkering with things (they decided to switch from 14 weeks of gross to 10 sometime between my interview and the start of Med 1) and they may believe that it would be easier to change if there was only one pathway. Anyways, that's my best guess. I think the changes are at least a few years out.

That's kind of a huge bummer. As a non-trad, I was salivating over the ISP at Ohio-State..

 

[CoolWhipp]

The trails and tribulations are too much!!

 

[futureboy]

Nice grammar and spelling, bro!

I'm not usually a grammar nazi, but that is just plain annoying.

The errors appear to be made intentionally for effect.

 

[futureboy]

I find it interesting that most if not all states do not allow Caribbean medical school grads to be licensed if any part of their program includes distance learning, but US med schools are doing the same thing...

 

[imorbust]

Then again, if you're limited to FP and presumably limited to training in rural Texas, do you really need to do that big of a Step 1 score?

That's what I said, they don't need a big score....but they DO still need to pass step 1 to be licensed, and I imagine the stuff eliminated preclinical year as irrelevant for FP is exactly the material the boards focuses on.

 

[Perrotfish]

That's what I said, they don't need a big score....but they DO still need to pass step 1 to be licensed, and I imagine the stuff eliminated preclinical year as irrelevant for FP is exactly the material the boards focuses on.

No, I think it would work pretty well. They could give a much faster and less in depth version of anatomy, biochem and embryo, which arent tested on boards at the nearly the same level of detail they're usually taught, and still give a full course on neuroanatomy, path, pharm, and micro, which is 90% of boards.