Would you opt out of your school's committee or would you stick with it?

[variablistic]

Alright, I didn't get in for the second year in a row. It sucks. Although there are likely several reasons why. One that's been coming into my mind repeatedly is my committee recommendation letter. I probably didn't make the best decisions in selecting people. My question is: what do I do? I've had enough experiences where I could likely compose an application from one professor, 1-2 doctors, my manager at work, and likely a fall update LOR from my PI for my research position this summer.

I know some schools want a reason if you don't use your school's committee.

What does everyone think?

Thanks

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[scowdeva]

Well, if you don't use a school committee (my school didn't have one) you have to have two individual letters from science profs and one from a non-science prof. Some schools are more specific, saying you need one from a bio prof, one from a chem prof, one from a physics prof, etc.

What you listed above won't meet the requirements for the vast majority of schools.

 

[jpro]

Alright, I didn't get in for the second year in a row. It sucks. Although there are likely several reasons why. One that's been coming into my mind repeatedly is my committee recommendation letter. I probably didn't make the best decisions in selecting people. My question is: what do I do? I've had enough experiences where I could likely compose an application from one professor, 1-2 doctors, my manager at work, and likely a fall update LOR from my PI for my research position this summer.

I know some schools want a reason if you don't use your school's committee.

What does everyone think?

Thanks

The committee letter is a must IF you are still in school. It adds a bit of credibility to your application. However if this is now your third attempt you may already be out in the workforce and the necessity of the committee letter no longer exists. Although, I believe that most medical schools rely heavily on that committee letter. Without that letter you may be facing an uphill battle for interviews. Someone should chime in who has been accepted without one.

I hope your luck turns around next year.

 

[Dr Roboto]

The committee letter is a must IF you are still in school. It adds a bit of credibility to your application. However if this is now your third attempt you may already be out in the workforce and the necessity of the committee letter no longer exists. Although, I believe that most medical schools rely heavily on that committee letter. Without that letter you may be facing an uphill battle for interviews. Someone should chime in who has been accepted without one.

I hope your luck turns around next year.

Committee letters are not mandatory. Some schools don't provide such a service to their students and I'm sure those students are fine. The med schools recommend using it and if you won't submit one, then you'll have to explain yourself.

I doubt your committee letter is saying bad things about you. That's just not how these committees operate. If you are submitting new LORs, ask them to rewrite your committee letter using your new and stronger LORs, unless this committee entirely bases their letter on something else.

Also, check which schools give you the opportunity to speak with a dean or someone who will review your application and let you know your weaknesses.

 

[nu2004]

as dr roboto mentioned, it's unlikely that the committee letter is your biggest hurdle. did you have bad grades? bad MCAT score? have you considered doing an SMP or re-taking the MCAT?

finding new letter-writers may be a piece of the puzzle, but changing your overall approach (or lowering your standards) may be a better starting point.

 

[ryandote]

.

 

[variablistic]

as dr roboto mentioned, it's unlikely that the committee letter is your biggest hurdle. did you have bad grades? bad MCAT score? have you considered doing an SMP or re-taking the MCAT?

finding new letter-writers may be a piece of the puzzle, but changing your overall approach (or lowering your standards) may be a better starting point.

Well, that's just it. Grades are fine. MCAT is good. My ECs aren't the greatest, but they're getting better as I just got myself a research position for the summer, and I've been working in a hospital two years, and I've started shadowing again to keep my head sharp.

A lot of this stems from comment during an interview where someone said something along the lines of, "according to your LOR, you may not have performed to your academic potential, how would you respond to that?"
It just took me by surprise, that's all.

 

[Dr Roboto]

Here's an anecdote. I'm part of a teaching team at my medical school that teaches an "intro to medical school" type class to undergraduates. Just last Thursday I was speaking with the medical school faculty supervisor about committees. She happens to be on our school's adcom and she said specifically that more than one committee they receive letters from is consistently "less than impressed" with candidates that they are submitting letters in behalf of.

I couldn't tell if they came out and said downright negative things about the student, or if they just receive so many letters from that school that they know when a real recommendation is missing. If you think about it, your state school gets SO MANY committee letters from their undergrad that if they don't recommend a student in certain areas, it is a de facto un-recommendation (is that a word?).

It should be common courtesy that if a person can't say something nice about you, they shouldn't be writing a letter for you. I guess that isn't always the case.

That is certainly interesting.

Variablistic, your profile looks good. I would suggest though that you apply to more schools, if not at least follow through with more. You only submitted 8 secondaries. Also see if you can get your committee letter rewritten before abandoning it.

 

[brianmartin]

It looks like you have a great app....why on earth did you fail to get in twice? I mean, how could your committee letter be bad, with an app like that? It sounds like you have ample sources for good letters. I don't get it. Maybe you just didn't apply broadly enough?

 

[Picklesali]

Yeah, I think you're shooting to high. If you only applied to 4 schools the first year and 8 this year... And those 8 included Columbia, Northwestern, UMich, Dartmouth....

You should definitely call up a school and see if they can tell you what problems there might be with your app (maybe you can get to the bottom of this 'not performing to your academic ability' issue) get updated letters, and reapply to BROADLY to MORE schools.

I'm talking like 15+ with a good range of competitiveness.

 

[PlayMeSomeMusic]

So I read some responses and some not.. but here's my advice based on my situation

I opted to graduate a year early from my undergrad and go to school to get my Masters... which worked out great for me.. but my premed advisor who composes the committee letter was absolutely against it (of course she works for a money hungry school who wanted my tuition money).. I went ahead and used the committee letter for that year.. and got 2 interviews.. 2 waitlists.. 0 acceptances..

When I started calling schools to get feedback.. one suggested hey maybe you could not use your committee letter next year and just get individual letters instead.. So to me that was a red flag.. of course they were only suggesting.. but that's what I did.. and I had much better successes this year..

I'd suggest.. since you've been applied for 2 cycles already (i'm assuming you are out of your undergrad) that it would be fine and probably even helpful to not use the committee letter again.. but that's just from my experiences..Hope it all works out for you

 

[Ella Shepherd]

The committee letter is a must IF you are still in school. It adds a bit of credibility to your application. However if this is now your third attempt you may already be out in the workforce and the necessity of the committee letter no longer exists. Although, I believe that most medical schools rely heavily on that committee letter. Without that letter you may be facing an uphill battle for interviews. Someone should chime in who has been accepted without one.

I hope your luck turns around next year.

I'm planning to work first (as a medical technologist) before applying to med school. I'd apply the traditional way but I want to earn a little money first, even just for applications and stuff.

So anyway, after a year or two of working, I'll apply to med school. I'll still have to give in recommendation letters right? Are they the same with the committee letters? (Just so's you know, we don't have a pre-med committee or anything like that in our school.) Will I still have to ask my undergraduate professors in certain subjects (Biology, Chemistry, etc.) to write recommendation letters for me?

Thanks...

 

[armybound]

my school's committee kept me from getting an acceptance. I definitely won't be using them again.

check my mdapps for more info

 

[flip26]

Well, that's just it. Grades are fine. MCAT is good. My ECs aren't the greatest, but they're getting better as I just got myself a research position for the summer, and I've been working in a hospital two years, and I've started shadowing again to keep my head sharp.

A lot of this stems from comment during an interview where someone said something along the lines of, "according to your LOR, you may not have performed to your academic potential, how would you respond to that?"
It just took me by surprise, that's all.

Why the heck did you withdraw pre-secondary from Creighton? And no app to St Louis? Also in the midwest, what about Wayne State? I am not real familiar with this region, but your app list looks extremely thin on more reachable schools...no shortage of reaches, though...

Aiming high is OK, but you really gave yourself no margin for error by not applying broadly to more schools within your reach...schools with median stats below yours...

 

[edfig99]

don't really think your letter would be that big a barrier. besides, you really don't know what the letter said - that one interviewer may actually have said that to test you...for example, your letter may have said you did very well academically, but you didn't perform well in other areas because you were so focused on your studies. the interviewer mixes it up to see how you respond.

from your mdapps profile, you're pretty thin on ECs, notably community service -- the volunteering in late '07 comes across as "something I have to do cuz i'm applying this cycle". The 10 verbal is borderline for some of the schools you've applied to. You also probably didn't help your cause by not applying to enough schools or withdrawing from so many schools pre-secondary.

how did the interviews go at the places you were invited to interview at? interviews generally make or break the applicant. great interviews trump mediocre letters.

i'd say hold off on reapplying, get some substantive research done and then see if you still want to do this thing. if you reapply to the same schools your app will have to be substantively different for them to reconsider, otherwise you're just wasting money.

 

[frikarika]

Alright, I didn't get in for the second year in a row. It sucks. Although there are likely several reasons why. One that's been coming into my mind repeatedly is my committee recommendation letter. I probably didn't make the best decisions in selecting people. My question is: what do I do? I've had enough experiences where I could likely compose an application from one professor, 1-2 doctors, my manager at work, and likely a fall update LOR from my PI for my research position this summer.

I know some schools want a reason if you don't use your school's committee.

What does everyone think?

Thanks

Well I wouldn't use it if I were you. My school has a committee service and I opted NOT to use it (just recently graduated, and working in another state). This issue was never brought up at any of my interviews and I didn't have to do any explaining. But I think the fact that I was out of school made is acceptable.

 

[variablistic]

i'd say hold off on reapplying, get some substantive research done and then see if you still want to do this thing. if you reapply to the same schools your app will have to be substantively different for them to reconsider, otherwise you're just wasting money.

To be truthful, I'd like to take another year off and get things in order. However, if I don't get into med school next year, I have to retake the MCAT, and I'm not about to put myself through that again.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I will reapply (again), and to substantively more schools. Financial concerns kept me from applying to more, but I'll take a loan out. I haven't yet decided if I'll opt out of my committee. I know if I did I'd have two strong academic letters from my chemistry department, my manager at work, one MD, and one DO. I think I'll wait to hear from a couple schools about what went wrong before I'll go in that direction, but thanks for all the feedback.

 

[nu2004]

Well, that's just it. Grades are fine. MCAT is good. My ECs aren't the greatest, but they're getting better as I just got myself a research position for the summer, and I've been working in a hospital two years, and I've started shadowing again to keep my head sharp.

A lot of this stems from comment during an interview where someone said something along the lines of, "according to your LOR, you may not have performed to your academic potential, how would you respond to that?"
It just took me by surprise, that's all.

well, yeah, it could be a LOR problem (maybe the LOR said something like, "with the proper motivation, i'm sure that Bob will make a fantastic doctor"), or that could have just been an interview tactic. if you responded to it poorly, that could have sunk you

for instance, my grades were not that great (3.39 BCPM, 3.45 AO at time of application), and i had an interviewer ask me something along the lines of "what did you do to improve your grades/what will you do to succeed in med school." i had thought about this a lot beforehand, and i was able to give a pretty well thought-out answer about my specific strategies and strengths and how i had put the pieces in place to succeed in med school. so, it sounded like i had thought about my shortcomings and developed strategies to overcome them.

have you had other people look at your PS and secondaries? anyone you know that is definitely a good writer and can give you overall tips, not just spelling and grammar? your situation really confuses me... i feel like i'm missing a piece of information.

good luck.

edit: i looked at your MDApps profile, and you have all the numbers you need. i don't know how heavily schools consider verbal, but your overall score is quite good.

my guess is that your essays might stand some work, community service hours could be upped (good ECs otherwise), and you HAVE to, HAVE to apply to more schools, man! are you kidding me? you applied to a few great schools, and a couple of decent ones. it seems like you don't really care about location, so comb through your MSAR and find the schools with the lowest median stats that you would be willing to attend (some of these are a little outside of major cities, a la New York Medical College and Rosalind Franklin University). maybe, then, your stats will make you stand out and at least get you a couple more interviews.

again, good luck.

 

[brsboarder]

I would start by choosing your schools more carefully. You applied almost to all top tier schools. I would also wonder what your essays are like.

 

[smq123]

One that's been coming into my mind repeatedly is my committee recommendation letter. I probably didn't make the best decisions in selecting people. My question is: what do I do? I've had enough experiences where I could likely compose an application from one professor, 1-2 doctors, my manager at work, and likely a fall update LOR from my PI for my research position this summer.

I know some schools want a reason if you don't use your school's committee.

It depends on what your committee does for you. If their LOR is just an amalgamation of snippets from your other letters, then that's not a problem.

However, I know that most committees actually "assess" you, and either "strongly recommend/recommend/mildly recommend," or some other BS like that.

When I applied, I doubted that I was going to get a "strongly recommend" from my committee. I was a fairly non-conformist student (never shadowed, never volunteered in a medical field, never even set foot in the hospital all during college), and I just didn't think that they were going to "like" me very much. I also had serious issues being "evaluated" by people who a) had never worked for a med school admissions committe, b) had never even applied for med school themselves, and c) had no idea who I was - I had never even met any of those people before.

I wrote a letter detailing my concerns (I mean - COME ON! People who have never even TAUGHT med students are going to evaluate my "fitness" for a career in medicine? Please. ), and included that in all my secondaries to explain why I was not including a committee letter. I was lucky enough to be able to apply quite broadly. I also interview well and write good essays.

All in all, I got in to a school that I was happy with. Although I'm sure that not using a committee letter hurt me at some places, I think that, in the end, the gamble paid off. But I hedged my bets with other things (applying extremely broadly, making sure the other parts of my app were good, etc.)

Good luck.