Would you still go into medicine if doctors made $75,000/yr?

[unicorn06]

Would you still go into medicine in docs made 75k a year?

Just wondering. Btw, the poll is anonymous, so don't be afraid to answer truthfully.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[juiceman311]

No. While money doesn't play the whole role in deciding on medcine, I can't justify spending the next 10-11 years of my life without sleep, in massive debt with no income, to make 75k/yr.

 

[Turkeyman]

Would the amount of education still be the same? If so, I think it'd be a horrible investment in the first place. Maybe docs would end up making that little if they simply started in a specialty and were trained specifically for a set amount of conditions. That'd make for some bad medicine though :O

 

[seadizzle]

No, medicine is the ideal profession because you can do something that is rewarding personally (helpinig people) and can provide a very comfortable life for your family.

If my dedication and intelligence isn't appropriately compensated practicing medicine I would find another path.

 

[jackets5]

No not a chance, not nearly enough money for the amount of school, training ,responsibility and DEBT we will be in when we graduate.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Would the amount of education still be the same

THIS is the right question

 

[SpeedRacer]

No not a chance, not nearly enough money for the amount of school, training ,responsibility and DEBT we will be in when we graduate.

yeah it would take you forever to pay off loans

 

[Flopotomist]

Are the student loans covered?

 

[Rendar5]

i said yes, but that is under the assumption that such a drop in avg physician salaries would correlate w/ an equivalent drop in the financial burden of tuition placed on the student (since otherwise, u'd have docs with negative net worths until they're 45 or 50 and extremely low retirement funds).

EDIT: equivalent drop wouldn't be percent of drop, it'd be closer to the net drop in salaries since most of what isn't dropped is going to living expenses anyway.

 

[jackets5]

i went on the assumption that everything stays status quo and just the salaries decrease. personally, i feel doctors are severely underpaid for the amount of responsibilty and time they spend at work. 300k a year isnt much after taxes and malpractice insurance for doing a job where the slightest mistake could mean death.

 

[anomic]

no... greed is good. greed builds cars, attracts the best minds, and provides for progress. there are reasons some professions make more than others.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

no... greed is good. greed builds cars, attracts the best minds, and provides for progress. there are reasons some professions make more than others.

All I can think of is Gordon Gekko (Michael Douglas) in Wall Street: "The point is ladies and gentlemen that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of it's forms - greed for life, for money, knowledge - has marked the upward surge of mankind"

 

[SuzieQ3417]

Wow...I really expected most people on here to say yes. And I must say I think its ridiculous that someone said $300,000 a year really isn't much once taxes and malpractice are taken into consideration. Let me just remind you that the median household income in the US is in the range of $40,000-50,000.

 

[Rendar5]

no... greed is good. greed builds cars, attracts the best minds, and provides for progress. there are reasons some professions make more than others.

whoo! let's go sports!

 

[jackets5]

yeah but a person making 50k a year probally didnt go to 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school 3-5 years of residency and 1 year or so of fellowship training. Thats between 12-14 years of preperation. not to mention your in the top tax bracket (i dont know much about taxes but i assume it would be around 30%) then take off 75k for malpractice insurance. Then think you not working the normal 40 hour week say 60 hours a week. Oh yeah and that pesky 150k of med school loans. To have the responsibilty of having a persons life in your hands etc. For all of that 300k is not that much money at all

Wow...I really expected most people on here to say yes. And I must say I think its ridiculous that someone said $300,000 a year really isn't much once taxes and malpractice are taken into consideration. Let me just remind you that the median household income in the US is in the range of $40,000-50,000.

 

[Taus]

Wow...I really expected most people on here to say yes. And I must say I think its ridiculous that someone said $300,000 a year really isn't much once taxes and malpractice are taken into consideration. Let me just remind you that the median household income in the US is in the range of $40,000-50,000.

The average household doesn't have around $200,000 of debt to pay off....

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Wow...I really expected most people on here to say yes. And I must say I think its ridiculous that someone said $300,000 a year really isn't much once taxes and malpractice are taken into consideration. Let me just remind you that the median household income in the US is in the range of $40,000-50,000.

It's not "much" when you consider that most docs who make that kind of cash are dealing with things (as the person who initially said it did) where a few moments inattentiveness or distraction can wind up leaving you with a dead patient. The point is not that it isn't a lot of money in a literal sense, the point is that it is not a lot when you consider the emotional, chronological, personal and other sacrifices you make to earn that kind of money. That my friends is the point.

 

[willow18]

Wow...I really expected most people on here to say yes. And I must say I think its ridiculous that someone said $300,000 a year really isn't much once taxes and malpractice are taken into consideration. Let me just remind you that the median household income in the US is in the range of $40,000-50,000.

The median household provider doesnt spend 10 sleepless years to get to his 40-50k.

 

[Rendar5]

don't forget that those avg families have a chance to start saving for retirement in their 20s, which with interest comes to a much higher amount than the amount a doc can save when they can start saving in their mid-30s (15 fewer years of buildup). The only thing which evens it out is that docs, if financially responsible, can put in a ton more per year. But don't underestimate the amount of retirement money and kids college fund that can build up w/ steady investment from 25-35.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

 

[SuzieQ3417]

Wow...I didn't realize I was setting myself up to get attacked. Let me update my stats...Average household income for college grads $64,000, MA - $74,000, Professional degree - $100,000. So 300,000 is still a lot compared to these averages. A lot of those people also take on debt (no I am not equating it to the amount from med school), and most of those people work far more than 40 hours per week. And the argument that doctors deserve to get paid a lot because they are dealing with human life? While I agree that this role is important, I don't think it necessarily justifies such a huge gap in wages. Maybe I was just raised to naively believe that every job and every person was important. Teacher's work hard and make next to nothing, do they not deserve more simply because they don't make the same "life altering" decisions a doctor must? While I don't think I can relate to, say, a welfare recipient, it sounds to me like some of you guys need a reality check. Let the flaming commence.

 

[Shredder]

everybody outside of pre allo laughs when these types of polls/threads come up, it makes premeds look silly. what was funny was the one several weeks ago where premeds were competing for who would work for the least, circa 30k and such...ha, i love it

 

[jackets5]

Dont start with teachers, my mother is a teacher and i have great respect for them. She works in NY (city school not on long island) she makes about 70k a year shes been there for about 12 years, they start around 40. They work 180 days a year for there money, have every weekend, summer and holiday imaginable off not a bad gig. Yes, every person and job is important but realitically some are more important than others. Hell, on Long Island we have teachers making around 100k base salary, they start at around 50k

Wow...I didn't realize I was setting myself up to get attacked. Let me update my stats...Average household income for college grads $64,000, MA - $74,000, Professional degree - $100,000. So 300,000 is still a lot compared to these averages. A lot of those people also take on debt (no I am not equating it to the amount from med school), and most of those people work far more than 40 hours per week. And the argument that doctors deserve to get paid a lot because they are dealing with human life? While I agree that this role is important, I don't think it necessarily justifies such a huge gap in wages. Maybe I was just raised to naively believe that every job and every person was important. Teacher's work hard and make next to nothing, do they not deserve more simply because they don't make the same "life altering" decisions a doctor must? While I don't think I can relate to, say, a welfare recipient, it sounds to me like some of you guys need a reality check. Let the flaming commence.

 

[SuzieQ3417]

Dont start with teachers, my mother is a teacher and i have great respect for them. She works in NY (city school not on long island) she makes about 70k a year shes been there for about 12 years, they start around 40. They work 180 days a year for there money, have every weekend, summer and holiday imaginable off not a bad gig. Yes, every person and job is important but realitically some are more important than others. Hell, on Long Island we have teachers making around 100k base salary, they start at around 50k

They start at around $25-30k here...cost of living adjustments I suppose.

Edit: Here, meaning MO. I realized I don't have it listed under my name.

 

[DrBowtie]

I think many are voting based upon their own assumptions. I bet if you stated all things apply as they are now the Yes votes would decline.

 

[dilated]

I thought it was funny how when they had the "would you cut your salary to fund national health care" poll in the residency forum it was like 96% against. I can't wait to get out of premed land.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

No one's flaming you. In fact, I appreciate your willingness to keep things on a very professional level.

I do agree that teachers are terribly underpaid given the level of crap they have to put up with (a major reason I respect teachers a far deal more than I respect any physician), but I don't see a similarity to their job description and docs. No one to my knowledge has ever died because a teacher had a brain fart.

 

[Shredder]

teachers are terribly underpaid

theres no such thing as underpaid and overpaid. society and the market determine wages, not any governing entity. teaching doesnt require a lot of qualifications or training to perform, medicine does. additionally teachers are in high supply. thus the disparity in incomes and respect

the amount of crap workers put up with factors into their incomes. some garbagemen are known to earn quite a lot

 

[jackets5]

I cant understand how a teacher can be underpaid. They make average 70k where i live (long island) for working half a year. If they worked the whole year theyd make over a 100k. Then they could make additional money if they coach sports, supervise clubs etc. The amount of people who want to be teachers is insane as well (except in math and science) . Thats a decent indicator that they make a decent living for amount of work they do

theres no such thing as underpaid and overpaid. society and the market determine wages, not any governing entity. teaching doesnt require a lot of qualifications or training to perform, medicine does. additionally teachers are in high supply. thus the disparity in incomes and respect

the amount of crap workers put up with factors into their incomes. some garbagemen are known to earn quite a lot

 

[DrBowtie]

I cant understand how a teacher can be underpaid. They make average 70k where i live (long island) for working half a year. If they worked the whole year theyd make over a 100k. Then they could make additional money if they coach sports, supervise clubs etc. The amount of people who want to be teachers is insane as well (except in math and science) . Thats a decent indicator that they make a decent living for amount of work they do

Again, the salary is very high for a teacher which is adjusted for cost of living. In the midwest, it is like half of that.

 

[Slide]

If doctors earned 75K per year, very few people would go into the profession because the financial securites of the job are not worth it. Considering that the amount of training and debt remains the same, doctors will be forced to live at a bare minimum standard of living in order to balance his financial matters. Then, once the debts are paid off, any money leftover is spent either on family, upgrading his standard of living, or for retirement, which he has maybe at most 20 years to save up for. If given these situations, most people would go into either business or research because it's financiall more feasible.

And hey, let's face it, at one point or another, most pre-meds were influenced by money to go into medicine. If you're gonna be saving and supporting many lives but cannot support yourself, something is definitely wrong with this picture.

However, with the way malpractice suits and tort reform is going, the net gain of a doctor may soon reflect simply earning 75k a year.

On the note of teachers, pay is generally determined by the standard of living. In Mississippi, regular high school teachers get paid at most 40K. However, 40K goes quite a ways there. At private and magnet schools, the teachers make almost twice as much. However, they are responsible for more things, like attending club meetings during the weekends and coaching students for competitions and such.

 

[jackets5]

Of course its more in NY because of the living expenses. I had no doubts a teacher in Iowa is going to make a lot less. But in Iowa my parents could probally buy our house for about 250k as where on Long Island they could get around 800k for it. So i just figure its all realitive

Again, the salary is very high for a teacher which is adjusted for cost of living. In the midwest, it is like half of that.

 

[synapse lapse]

Maybe I was just raised to naively believe that every job and every person was important.

How quaintly pedestrian.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

A better poll would be: if you were independently wealthy would you still go into medicine?

 

[DoctorBill]

I think that someone who wouldn't be a doctor for 75k is not motivated for the right reasons.

Just think about college professors: 6-9 years of graduate school, around 50-60k of debt, rare jobs AFTER completing the degree - many which require cross country moves, 7 years of job insecurity after landing a job (50% never end up finding one), and not to mention a whopping 35-40k starting salary. Consider their dedication and what these people are willing to go through for their true passion.

Why should prospective doctors be dissatisfied with 75k? The only reason I can think of is that it is not their true passion (at least the 56% or so that said "no").

 

[CenteredDoc]

Although money is not the primary reason why i want to go into med, it is part of the reason. u sacrifice 10-15 years of ur life so that u can contribute to society. yet at some point, u have to think about urself and ur family. +75000
- debt
- malpractice ins
- tax
= a negative number

 

[NismoZ32]

I do agree that teachers are terribly underpaid given the level of crap they have to put up with (a major reason I respect teachers a far deal more than I respect any physician)

First let me start by saying I'm not (very ) upset over this issue and I know this thread is getting hijacked. But I lost alot of the respect I had for teachers in college. I remember times when I and my bio major friend were studying a week in advance for ochem tests and our other education major friends were like "WOoo! you're not coming out tonight!?!?". They literly had tests on things like finger painting. I mean WTF? I know there are alot of teachers out there who really care and want to make a difference. I'm sure most of us can name at least one in their own life, but underpaid? You get three months off every year!!, you know that's why most of them chose that major. And as far as respect; we're all spending years of not only no income but digging in deeper in debt so we can deal with high workloads, high stress, HMOs, malpractice, etc, and we all welcome it with a smile because we know this is what we were meant to do. Is there anything respectable about that?

 

[osli]

Some people need to get a grip on the reality of today's world. If doctors (and I assume that includes a variety of specialties, not just a few primary care or pediatricians here or there) made 75K average, then a doctor paying today's malpractice insurance and student loan averages would be broke. Very broke. As in filing bankruptcy immediately. Absolutely no way to support oneself, much less a family.

I was making ~$70,000 a year as an engineer. No loans required (though some of my friends had moderate loan debts when they graduated with the same degree, say $20,000 or so). After taxes that's in the $45K ballpark.

Now let's put some conservative numbers in for the doctor making $75K. After taxes, that's roughly $50K (in the best case/state). Figure a 10 year payback of a very moderate student debt... somewhere just over $100K. That's going to hit you for $15K a year or so. Most people have twice that debt or more (some many times that) by the time they finish residency. That leaves the doctor $35K a year. Malpractice. How many specialties can get by with $35K/year malpractice insurance? Not many.

So being generous on both the student debt and the malpractice insurance, that leaves a net pay for the doctor of ZERO for at least ten years after residency. After that, they would be making, at best, about the poverty line wage.

Anyone want to volunteer to go through 10 years of post-undergrad education to make ZERO money for the next 10 years, during which time they are ineligible for federal financial help (welfare), and after which if they are still alive they can maybe, just maybe scratch by at the poverty line level? You do realize a part time job at WalMart would pay more, right?

I think a lot of people just don't have any sense of how much $75K is today. It ain't that much anymore. Talking about that kind of salary with insurance and debts to consider is simply ridiculous.

 

[63768]

haha i've always hated threads like these. i hate it when logical choices are condemn because they concern money.

you can look at it one of two ways, which have been brought up in this thread. economically or personally. economically, it costs a lot for the institutions to have a student attend medical school and go through residency to become a physician. by personally i mean the forgone wages/salaries of going into another career (the opportunity cost) and the 4+ years that are lost due to med school and residency. and then there are the costs of building a patient base and malpractice.

why does it matter that teachers are underpaid? the focus is on the physician. if i made $75k a year to attend 9-10 years of med school + ortho residency, i would hate it. i'd think about the $50k a year i could make to go straight out of college and into business. i'd realize that the missing $25k will quickly disappear as i rise through management etc.

everyone likes to think that medical care is a right. it really isn't when you think about it in a logical, pragmatic way. medical care costs way more than you think it does.

 

[sunnyjohn]

Didn't we just do his thread last week?

I would do it for $75G's if as long as I don't have to borrow to make it through med school.

A better poll would be: if you were independently wealthy would you still go into medicine?

This guy did---->

 

[DropkickMurphy]

A better poll would be: if you were independently wealthy would you still go into medicine?

The answer to that would be "yes".

 

[Slide]

The simple fact of the matter is that a 75K salary is not worth the trouble of med school. Getting a job out of business school and getting a 100K salary, and then doing volunteer medical work would get people just about the same satisfaction if they like medicine.

Honestly, If I were to be making a negative salary after med school, I would have jumped ship to business right away.

 

[N-Surge]

Wow...I didn't realize I was setting myself up to get attacked. Let me update my stats...Average household income for college grads $64,000, MA - $74,000, Professional degree - $100,000. So 300,000 is still a lot compared to these averages. A lot of those people also take on debt (no I am not equating it to the amount from med school), and most of those people work far more than 40 hours per week. And the argument that doctors deserve to get paid a lot because they are dealing with human life? While I agree that this role is important, I don't think it necessarily justifies such a huge gap in wages. Maybe I was just raised to naively believe that every job and every person was important. Teacher's work hard and make next to nothing, do they not deserve more simply because they don't make the same "life altering" decisions a doctor must? While I don't think I can relate to, say, a welfare recipient, it sounds to me like some of you guys need a reality check. Let the flaming commence.

Someone else already mentioned malpractice. However, I thought I'd jack up the "reality check" by showing a figure from the www (a few years outdated). Look at it carefully, $300,000 is actually quite reasonable.

I believe the y-axis is in hundreds of thousands of dollars. Looks like you'd be in the red if you only made $75,000. If malpracitce wasn't an issue and medical schooling costs were covered (also previously mentioned) I think quite a few (if not the majority) would still pursue medical endeavors, IMHO.

Just because others are (from what it appears) more aware of the financial, physical, and mental costs concerning your question doesn't imply that they are attacking you. Also, no one has said doctors are "more important" than any other persons. Think about it. A physician does his/her job to keep the quality of life for "all people" in check.

 

[Ross434]

The simple fact of the matter is that a 75K salary is not worth the trouble of med school. Getting a job out of business school and getting a 100K salary, and then doing volunteer medical work would get people just about the same satisfaction if they like medicine.

Honestly, If I were to be making a negative salary after med school, I would have jumped ship to business right away.

The simple fact of the matter is that, to some people, salary isnt important.

 

[Blake]

The simple fact of the matter is that, to some people, salary isnt important.

That concept is INCREDIBLY hard to understand for some people, but there really are people out there who aren't entering medicine for money.

 

[N-Surge]

Yes, there are indeed!

 

[Uncle_Tbag]

It's not so much the amount of money that made me answer "no."

If malpractice were payed by an outside body or a thing of the past entirely;

If med school cost next to nothing or there was a universal program to pay back tuition for all doctors, regardless of specialty;

If more stipends were paid during med school to increase standard of living for the student (and resident);

If private practice offices were a thing of the past and everyone worked for an HMO (how are you going to pay for an office and staff with that kind of money?)

I still would want to be a physician. The problem is this type of system would only been seen under socialized medicine, something I have no interest in being a part of. Lower pay I could accept, lower quality health-care and government control over medicine is something I couldn't accept.

 

[Blake]

The problem is this type of system would only been seen under socialized medicine, something I have no interest in being a part of. Lower pay I could accept, lower quality health-care and government control over medicine is something I couldn't accept.

Lower quality health care with socialized medicine ? Based on what ?

 

[radioh3ad]

in today's world. NO. simple answer man.

 

[JBigioOU]

I agree with Juiceman. I'm not about the bling (if I was, I would've pursued pro sports), but it's about getting paid what you're worth. If I went to school for many a year and I play a crucial role in the health of people I see, I'd want to have fair pay.