dyachei

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Player list:
SARdoghandler
Animal Midwife
StayingPositive2017
dolphin106258
Barkley13
Dinashadow
WildZoo
Ms Procrastinator
Coopah
genny
ziggyandjazzy
muttmanager
mizchiefmanaged
SportPonies
cubsrule4e
PippyPony
Navilly

Gameplay will start tomorrow morning at 9 am and nights will end at 9 pm. DO NOT POST until then. Roles will be going out shortly
 
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dyachei

dyachei

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All roles have been sent out. As a reminder, they are as follows:
n1 macho watcher
n2 watcher
n2 alignment cop ninja
n3 alignment cop ninja
n2 vigilante
n3 vigilante
n1 n3 doctor
n2 n4 doctor
n1 n3 tracker
n2 n4 tracker
n1 n3 jailkeeper
n2 n4 jailkeeper
n1-3 roleblocker
n1-3 role cop
JOAT (role cop, tracker, roleblocker)
JOAT (doctor, jailkeeper, voyeur)
Voyeur n1-4

Watcher: Learns who visited the target, but not what actions they did

Alignment Cop: Learns whether the target is town or mafia, but not their role

Vigilante: Kills the target

Doctor: Protects the target from kills on that night only (cannot self-protect)

Tracker: Learns who the target visited, but not what actions they did

Roleblocker: Prevents the target from using their action on that night only

Jailkeeper: Performs both a Doctor and Roleblocker action on the target

Role Cop: Learns the role of the target, but not whether they are town or mafia

Jack of All Trades: Can use one of their abilities per night without repeats

Voyeur: Learns what type of actions were performed on the target, but not who did them

Macho: The player cannot be protected from kills

Strongman: Kills performed with Strongman cannot be stopped in any way (serves no purpose if the player is town)
MECHANICS
  • Role reveals at death are alignment only. You will not learn a player's exact role when they die.
  • Usage of night actions is optional, but unused actions will be lost.
  • Majority is in effect only D2 and onwards.
  • Votes are locked in at LYLO. (Lynch correctly or Lose)
  • No Lynching is allowed. Vote for No Lynch to forgo a lynch that Day.
  • Mafia factional kills are optional. Mafia may submit a factional kill each night, but are not required to. However, starting night 5, the factional kill will be mandatory.
  • Mafia factional kills are assigned. They can be tracked, watched, or roleblocked.
  • Mafia share a factional Night Kill, which is a single standard shot for their faction.
  • Mafia members may perform the faction kill in addition to their regular action at the same time.
  • Mafia may communicate at any time.
  • Tied votes will result in a player being lynched at random from among the tied players.
Night actions are processed in this order:

Strongman kills
Roleblocks
Jails
Doctors
Bodyguards
Kills
Investigations
Backups

When an action was submitted during the night will never matter when the actions are processed.
 
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PippyPony

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Second?
 

PippyPony

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Since we don't often play with majority rules these days, does someone want to explain for the newer players how that works + what "votes locking at lylo" means?
 

Animal Midwife

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Since we don't often play with majority rules these days, does someone want to explain how that works + what "votes locking at lylo" means for the newer players?
Majority occurs when >50% of the players are on one lynch vote. Votes locking at lylo is like Science endgame but you can't move your vote ever again after it's cast.
 
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PippyPony

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Oh actually, since I just did this because the verbs were modifying the wrong thing in my last post...

@dyachei are edits ok? :bag:
 

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...I almost just liked that post.

Thanks :)
 
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dyachei

dyachei

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Even anything. Also ask questions by conversation /pm.

Asking questions in thread is taboo in mu. The whole point of this is to be as true to forms as possible
 

Animal Midwife

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I may be misremembering, but I think the mechincally correct play is for everyone to role reveal D5.
 

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I was about to ask how role revealing helps if the abilities are randomly assigned, but I guess we can figure out who used their abilities questionably
 

SARdoghandler

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Majority occurs when >50% of the players are on one lynch vote.
Eugh. Someone is going to have to remind me this is a thing because I'll probably forget at some point. Haven't played a majority game in eons.
 

Navilly

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Okay making a longish post here. Have been waiting for officially 20 people to post before I posted this as I decided to do a little meta hunting on Barkley, as a few things have been sketch thus far (But she hasn't even posted you say, just wait). To mods, I apologize for using angling and metas and likes in my analysis here, I understand that it's not available in MU, but I am not going to ignore stuff that I have noticed and just blame it on feels, when I can develop a coherent argument instead.

Okay, last game, Barkley had commented about my first to post, first to vote strategy indicating wolfiness in a joking matter (within the first few posts of the game), while I was a mod and they were a villager. They also had acknowledged it in the game before. Barkley was here 9:00 on the dot, as he immediately liked AM's post upon posting, and Pippy's post upon posting, so felt as if they were avoiding posting at that point. As an aside, Barkley has never liked first or second posts in any previous WW game (hence my thoughts of that theory being in their mind)

Additionally, they have ALWAYS, every game, full stop, posted within the first 20 posts in the game (all but one within 15, most within 10). So you may claim that he was just here at 9 am, and has since left. Nope, (and I apologize for my angling here) he has posted in the dead chat from last game responding to messages, has liked posts in the lounge, and liked posts in the previous game thread. So it appears she is avoiding the thread, which is outside of her early game meta (I am realizing I am likely using he/his a lot and I apologize, I know you are a woman).

Now, this isn't a damning, end discussion argument, but I think it's a fairly compelling one for 0 lynch votes posted and a bit over 20 posts into the game.

A few things from a mechanistic standpoint that I really want to emphasize in a game like this:
1. We should follow what AM has said regarding role reveals on day 5. This is where the logic puzzle part of the WW game comes in. You figure out the claimed actions of each person and start to form an appropriate network of information.
2. Because you are at maximum only getting 2 actions for a specific type of ability (I know the JOAT gets 3 but they are all separate abilities), if you find a wolf from your actions you say it on the thread, that day. Full Stop. Don't rely on the fact that you placed pressure with your votes and questioning, because WE WON'T KNOW YOUR ROLE ON DEATH. (ie. You see someone kill (especially on NIGHTS 1 OR 4), you see someone interact with the person who is dead, you see someone take two actions in 1 night, etc.)
3. Unless someone says that someone is a FOR SURE wolf (ie, saw two actions taken in 1 night or affiliations seered them as wolf) in a non-Lylo situation, there is NO reason for us to employ majority rules. Discussion only helps village. Lack of discussion helps wolves. Ending days early when we don't for sure know someone is a wolf is poor village strategy.
4. On day 5, proper etiquette is for the even/odd role cops to reveal their info LAST. The reason for this is that it makes the wolves be forced to reveal their true role with their "target list" (unless we were unlucky and they got both of those roles).
5. In any lylo situation, you DO NOT vote early. I don't care how convinced you are. You let the discussion play out for the day. As I have seen locked early votes really mess up village in this type of situation.
6. Any person's role ability claim is NOT a reason to NOT lynch them in this type of game. Affiliations were given out randomly. Affiliation seer could just as easily be a wolf as a villager (and is even more dangerous in wolf hands, since that is affiliated with the ninja modification).
7. This game has 3 different mechanisms for nights 1-3 where death can be avoided. Just because you blocked or jailed someone does not make that person a wolf. People will debate the merits of outing yourself, especially on a day 2 type of situation if no kill happens on night 1 (also keep in mind that wolves are not required to kill as well, which can lead to interesting strategies from the wolves with that)
8. If you are a villager, and are about to be lynched, it is beneficial to release your night results before you go down, to help in the logic puzzle we have going on later. This way we are only missing 0-6 pieces of information later on (max with night kills if vigilantes kill 2 villagers)

Lynch Barkley
 

PippyPony

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Okay making a longish post here. Have been waiting for officially 20 people to post before I posted this as I decided to do a little meta hunting on Barkley, as a few things have been sketch thus far (But she hasn't even posted you say, just wait). To mods, I apologize for using angling and metas and likes in my analysis here, I understand that it's not available in MU, but I am not going to ignore stuff that I have noticed and just blame it on feels, when I can develop a coherent argument instead.

Okay, last game, Barkley had commented about my first to post, first to vote strategy indicating wolfiness in a joking matter (within the first few posts of the game), while I was a mod and they were a villager. They also had acknowledged it in the game before. Barkley was here 9:00 on the dot, as he immediately liked AM's post upon posting, and Pippy's post upon posting, so felt as if they were avoiding posting at that point. As an aside, Barkley has never liked first or second posts in any previous WW game (hence my thoughts of that theory being in their mind)

Additionally, they have ALWAYS, every game, full stop, posted within the first 20 posts in the game (all but one within 15, most within 10). So you may claim that he was just here at 9 am, and has since left. Nope, (and I apologize for my angling here) he has posted in the dead chat from last game responding to messages, has liked posts in the lounge, and liked posts in the previous game thread. So it appears she is avoiding the thread, which is outside of her early game meta (I am realizing I am likely using he/his a lot and I apologize, I know you are a woman).

Now, this isn't a damning, end discussion argument, but I think it's a fairly compelling one for 0 lynch votes posted and a bit over 20 posts into the game.

A few things from a mechanistic standpoint that I really want to emphasize in a game like this:
1. We should follow what AM has said regarding role reveals on day 5. This is where the logic puzzle part of the WW game comes in. You figure out the claimed actions of each person and start to form an appropriate network of information.
2. Because you are at maximum only getting 2 actions for a specific type of ability (I know the JOAT gets 3 but they are all separate abilities), if you find a wolf from your actions you say it on the thread, that day. Full Stop. Don't rely on the fact that you placed pressure with your votes and questioning, because WE WON'T KNOW YOUR ROLE ON DEATH. (ie. You see someone kill (especially on NIGHTS 1 OR 4), you see someone interact with the person who is dead, you see someone take two actions in 1 night, etc.)
3. Unless someone says that someone is a FOR SURE wolf (ie, saw two actions taken in 1 night or affiliations seered them as wolf) in a non-Lylo situation, there is NO reason for us to employ majority rules. Discussion only helps village. Lack of discussion helps wolves. Ending days early when we don't for sure know someone is a wolf is poor village strategy.
4. On day 5, proper etiquette is for the even/odd role cops to reveal their info LAST. The reason for this is that it makes the wolves be forced to reveal their true role with their "target list" (unless we were unlucky and they got both of those roles).
5. In any lylo situation, you DO NOT vote early. I don't care how convinced you are. You let the discussion play out for the day. As I have seen locked early votes really mess up village in this type of situation.
6. Any person's role ability claim is NOT a reason to NOT lynch them in this type of game. Affiliations were given out randomly. Affiliation seer could just as easily be a wolf as a villager (and is even more dangerous in wolf hands, since that is affiliated with the ninja modification).
7. This game has 3 different mechanisms for nights 1-3 where death can be avoided. Just because you blocked or jailed someone does not make that person a wolf. People will debate the merits of outing yourself, especially on a day 2 type of situation if no kill happens on night 1 (also keep in mind that wolves are not required to kill as well, which can lead to interesting strategies from the wolves with that)
8. If you are a villager, and are about to be lynched, it is beneficial to release your night results before you go down, to help in the logic puzzle we have going on later. This way we are only missing 0-6 pieces of information later on (max with night kills if vigilantes kill 2 villagers)

Lynch Barkley
I was just about to ask where you were...lol
 
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Barkley13

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Okay making a longish post here. Have been waiting for officially 20 people to post before I posted this as I decided to do a little meta hunting on Barkley, as a few things have been sketch thus far (But she hasn't even posted you say, just wait). To mods, I apologize for using angling and metas and likes in my analysis here, I understand that it's not available in MU, but I am not going to ignore stuff that I have noticed and just blame it on feels, when I can develop a coherent argument instead.

Okay, last game, Barkley had commented about my first to post, first to vote strategy indicating wolfiness in a joking matter (within the first few posts of the game), while I was a mod and they were a villager. They also had acknowledged it in the game before. Barkley was here 9:00 on the dot, as he immediately liked AM's post upon posting, and Pippy's post upon posting, so felt as if they were avoiding posting at that point. As an aside, Barkley has never liked first or second posts in any previous WW game (hence my thoughts of that theory being in their mind)

Additionally, they have ALWAYS, every game, full stop, posted within the first 20 posts in the game (all but one within 15, most within 10). So you may claim that he was just here at 9 am, and has since left. Nope, (and I apologize for my angling here) he has posted in the dead chat from last game responding to messages, has liked posts in the lounge, and liked posts in the previous game thread. So it appears she is avoiding the thread, which is outside of her early game meta (I am realizing I am likely using he/his a lot and I apologize, I know you are a woman).

Now, this isn't a damning, end discussion argument, but I think it's a fairly compelling one for 0 lynch votes posted and a bit over 20 posts into the game.

A few things from a mechanistic standpoint that I really want to emphasize in a game like this:
1. We should follow what AM has said regarding role reveals on day 5. This is where the logic puzzle part of the WW game comes in. You figure out the claimed actions of each person and start to form an appropriate network of information.
2. Because you are at maximum only getting 2 actions for a specific type of ability (I know the JOAT gets 3 but they are all separate abilities), if you find a wolf from your actions you say it on the thread, that day. Full Stop. Don't rely on the fact that you placed pressure with your votes and questioning, because WE WON'T KNOW YOUR ROLE ON DEATH. (ie. You see someone kill (especially on NIGHTS 1 OR 4), you see someone interact with the person who is dead, you see someone take two actions in 1 night, etc.)
3. Unless someone says that someone is a FOR SURE wolf (ie, saw two actions taken in 1 night or affiliations seered them as wolf) in a non-Lylo situation, there is NO reason for us to employ majority rules. Discussion only helps village. Lack of discussion helps wolves. Ending days early when we don't for sure know someone is a wolf is poor village strategy.
4. On day 5, proper etiquette is for the even/odd role cops to reveal their info LAST. The reason for this is that it makes the wolves be forced to reveal their true role with their "target list" (unless we were unlucky and they got both of those roles).
5. In any lylo situation, you DO NOT vote early. I don't care how convinced you are. You let the discussion play out for the day. As I have seen locked early votes really mess up village in this type of situation.
6. Any person's role ability claim is NOT a reason to NOT lynch them in this type of game. Affiliations were given out randomly. Affiliation seer could just as easily be a wolf as a villager (and is even more dangerous in wolf hands, since that is affiliated with the ninja modification).
7. This game has 3 different mechanisms for nights 1-3 where death can be avoided. Just because you blocked or jailed someone does not make that person a wolf. People will debate the merits of outing yourself, especially on a day 2 type of situation if no kill happens on night 1 (also keep in mind that wolves are not required to kill as well, which can lead to interesting strategies from the wolves with that)
8. If you are a villager, and are about to be lynched, it is beneficial to release your night results before you go down, to help in the logic puzzle we have going on later. This way we are only missing 0-6 pieces of information later on (max with night kills if vigilantes kill 2 villagers)

Lynch Barkley
I have posted tho
 

Navilly

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I have posted tho
You posted at post #21, which is the latest you have ever posted in a game, even though you were actively on SDN, especially right when the game thread began.

The beginning of my post started when AM posted post #20, it just took me awhile to finish the post with the mechanics stuff I added in there.
 

PippyPony

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I could have told you that I thought it was weird BarkBark liked a post and then peaced out for a bit.

"20 posts" seems like an arbitrary benchmark, particularly given that half of them were about rules of the game, no?
 

Navilly

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I was just about to ask where you were...lol
Didn't want to skew the posting numbers by posting earlier, and have the claim come back that I pushed the numbers over to fit my theory. Especially once I was a few games into the meta analysis on Barkley.
 

Navilly

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I could have told you that I thought it was weird BarkBark liked a post and then peaced out for a bit.

"20 posts" seems like an arbitrary benchmark, particularly given that half of them were about rules of the game, no?
The vast majority were under 10 posts, he had one game iirc that it was post 19, and I am a full disclosure person, so I reported it as such. But if you exclude the one game, it is all 15 and under for the rest.
 

PippyPony

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Didn't want to skew the posting numbers by posting earlier, and have the claim come back that I pushed the numbers over to fit my theory. Especially once I was a few games into the meta analysis on Barkley.
#nerdalert

Glad to know you took the time to think about how to ensure doesn't look like you're spinning data to fit a narrative though ;)
 

Navilly

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#nerdalert

Glad to know you took the time to think about how to ensure doesn't look like you're spinning data to fit a narrative though ;)
I see your low key undermining going on there, and if Barkley ends up flipping wolf, I will remember that Ms. "Team Operator" :)
 

PippyPony

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Bah I forgot an "it" in there. No edit rules... :dead:
 

PippyPony

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I see your low key undermining going on there, and if Barkley ends up flipping wolf, I will remember that Ms. "Team Operator" :)
Good ;)

I'm just happy that someone listens to what I say
 

Animal Midwife

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2. Because you are at maximum only getting 2 actions for a specific type of ability (I know the JOAT gets 3 but they are all separate abilities), if you find a wolf from your actions you say it on the thread, that day. Full Stop. Don't rely on the fact that you placed pressure with your votes and questioning, because WE WON'T KNOW YOUR ROLE ON DEATH. (ie. You see someone kill (especially on NIGHTS 1 OR 4), you see someone interact with the person who is dead, you see someone take two actions in 1 night, etc.)
I think if people get a guilty they still shouldn't reveal first thing. It kills discussion on here regardless of what happens afterwards.
8. If you are a villager, and are about to be lynched, it is beneficial to release your night results before you go down, to help in the logic puzzle we have going on later. This way we are only missing 0-6 pieces of information later on (max with night kills if vigilantes kill 2 villagers)
I can get behind the ability reveal before dying, but results sounds like it may have the potential to out other village PRs.
 

Navilly

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I think if people get a guilty they still shouldn't reveal first thing. It kills discussion on here regardless of what happens afterwards.

I can get behind the ability reveal before dying, but results sounds like it may have the potential to out other village PRs.
Let me rephrase on #2, because I agree with what your intention is. If you can't get said person lynched through the throwing sketch route, and you see someone who may or may not be a wolf about to go down, then you come out with your information and get the known wolf lynched instead.

It could lead to outing other village PRs, as of day 4 it doesn't matter anymore (because anyone acting on day 3 will not act anymore, so it really only matters on day 2 and day 3, so there is likely some discretion that the person should use, but if they are outing an affiliation seer on day 3 for example, its not that big a deal, as they only had 1 affiliations seer for the whole game. But its hard for me to iterate every single nuance associated with this. If x then y type scenarios.
 

Navilly

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There is a final mechanics thing that I forgot to bring up earlier, since the mods are allowing it in this game:

IF YOU ARE AT 4 PEOPLE, YOU VOTE "NO LYNCH." Wolves will take a person down that night, meaning the LYLO situation is a 50/50 chance for each villager voting correctly, instead of 33% chance.
 

PippyPony

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There is a final mechanics thing that I forgot to bring up earlier, since the mods are allowing it in this game:

IF YOU ARE AT 4 PEOPLE, YOU VOTE "NO LYNCH." Wolves will take a person down that night, meaning the LYLO situation is a 50/50 chance for each villager voting correctly, instead of 33% chance.
This is a lot of rules for me. I just got out of being chaos, I'm not used to being bossed around

:banana:
 
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Animal Midwife

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It could lead to outing other village PRs, as of day 4 it doesn't matter anymore (because anyone acting on day 3 will not act anymore, so it really only matters on day 2 and day 3, so there is likely some discretion that the person should use, but if they are outing an affiliation seer on day 3 for example, its not that big a deal, as they only had 1 affiliations seer for the whole game. But its hard for me to iterate every single nuance associated with this. If x then y type scenarios.
I think the tracker, jailkeeper, doctor, and voyeur (assuming they're still alive) can still act at this point. Still makes me worried, moreso the first three, that it could put them at risk.
 

ziggyandjazzy

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###lynch AM####

I feel like trash because I've had bad insomnia the past two nights. Supposed to be in class rn. Will try to check in later
 

Navilly

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I think the tracker, jailkeeper, doctor, and voyeur (assuming they're still alive) can still act at this point. Still makes me worried, moreso the first three, that it could put them at risk.
Depends, are we talking about someone who is even or odd. I am agreeing that there is nuance there, but at the same time without listing out the everything on how each person should act, it's difficult to express every nuance there, and thus I fall back on generalities. There are a couple of scenarios where I wouldn't out my actions if I was being lynched on Day 4, and a few on Day 3 (and a bit more on Day 2). I understand what you are getting at, but for the most part, it is better overall to share then to not, especially since protection roles are in the game, and if we subsequently see that someone used their block for example or their jailing on someone that was outed as a tracker (and did so on their even/odd night), then that help indicates wolfiness as well. So I am not really against having people outed on the thread with MOST scenarios, as you get to see how wolves react to said information with their roles.
 

ziggyandjazzy

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I'm sorry you don't feel well. Can you go into this further? What about AM's current posts make you lean wolfy?
Her vote super early with no rationale. She did the same thing in Mel's game which I had never seen. and I lynched her then but instead I got lynched, when she was the wolf

Plus I'm petty